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[Concluded] DTLS Testing


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I'm no longer getting closed ports warning upon logging in (a problem that plagued my game for over a year until now). You are doing god's work DE. Keep it up! Fixing these technical backbone problems is very beneficial in the long run.

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After last hotfix my connection start to die as soon as Warframe opens.  Not the launcher but the game.

Playing on Windows 7 x64, launching from steam. 

I'm getting some chat disconnection like user XCLOO and the red network error notifications too. 

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On 2021-01-26 at 1:36 AM, Morteno said:

PC.
PC is just the extended test guineapig for console builds because there is next to extra fee or approval process from "partners" on PC.
2x double nat is a bit exaggerated. Your isp does 'Carrier grade NAT' which is mostly transparent if it set up correctly.
So you have a setup with: local nat (you) - carrier level nat (ISP) - local nat (friends). With unknown firewall and router settings at both endpoints. That is only really a problem if your isp does carrier grade nat in a wrong way (either they are bad at it or/and they are severely abusing their customers).

TBF this will not do very much against your problem or against bad connections (and wifi / wireless internet). Lost/broken packets are lost packets anyway. If you are going to go do retransmission (many frames later, meaning lots of 'catch up' bursting) you may as well just run a TCP connection, instead of this "SSL for UDP" thing which is kinda what DTLS is in layman terms.
That's just the cold hard facts, there is no good way around bad internet in a low latency scenario. For that very reason in the sim racing scene, people prefer wiring up with good oldfashioned cat5/cat6 ethernet and fiber/coax/dsl internet - packetloss (or retransmit lag) is intolerable to them when driving close to losing control.

DTLS does help with detection of connection tampering, such as various forms of packet injection and packet alteration, and if the library is hardened well it also helps against replay attacks. Those have been used by some types of cheats in online games since about 1999. But it only becomes harder up to a point, it merely takes a deeper effort to do.
Also helps a bit against packetdroppers, meaning it provides a network level way of detecting it, as opposed to having to app-level awareness. Mostly a exercise in who does the heavy lifting: meaning someone elses DTLS library or warframe having to think about when you should give up waiting on a missing packet. It does in not in itself make it less of a problem that drops occur.

It also does not help against incompetent or greedy ISP that treats udp as a kind of garbage that should be blocked (because it could be torrent/botnet data) unless you pay extra for it, usually hidden behind a 'you are not allowed to run servers on a consumer grade connection' clause, so you can be extorted into upgrading with "you'll have to upgrade to xxx if you want to run servers". Of any kind, including harmless little game sessions for 4 people in warframe.
Artificial scarcity being used against you - and if you are in the USA, mostly likely in a local monopoly situation with no alternatives.


Hey thanks for taking the time out to write this. It's sad to hear it may not help me. I did get to play once with that friend, during the 9hrs this test was up, and it worked for me, so I guess somehow it either does end up helping...or we just got lucky.

Anyway, time will tell.

And yeah I live in India, and ipv4 scarcity is BIG here, because the population density is insane, and internet access has been booming in the past few years.
I do know they use a CGNAT, that is the "double", in the "double NAT" here. And yeah their excuse is that they create more security, but that's only as dumb as saying using two c ond oms is better protection. Ofc, it's an excuse, they want me to pay an extra monthly fee for a dedicated public ipv4 address. Which I can't do. And yes, this also affects other p2p stuff, connecting to trackers/peers, terrible voice calls/video calls, and any QoS services, etc.

I did switch from wifi to ethernet/LAN cables and that does seem to help a slight bit. Getting an SSD also helps because most disconnects happen because the entire chain takes so much time, and adding the time for loading a mission just makes the system give up and timeout. 

Still, can't connect to friends on the same ISP, behind their local CGNATs without VPN lol.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2021-01-25 at 9:52 PM, Cryptonitor said:

DE please get better microphones... You sound like Im getting the sound on a television from 1950. A proper soundcard and mic should be handed out to everyone doing homestreams.
Since all DE should already have gamingrigs its not expensive to provide them with proper audioeq. Proper soundcards and high fidelity mics sorely needed.

I agree but also there should be additional hardware(or software in worst case) for cleaning/dynamic range compression(or multiband compression with a limiter).

And it is not that much pricy, someting like UR22C with a mid-level studio microprone would do well if software processing(FabFilter bundle and ERA noise remover) is tuned well(sound team knows how to do thar).

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  • 2 weeks later...

So, I missed this and now Im starting to understand the issues Im having.  Maps with connection issue banners, chat giving error 10054, host migrations at the start of a mission(switches host to another member of the group). All started around the time this was implemented.  In the words of Buck Futz Chief engineer for a seattle radio show... Uh oh. Sum tin broke.

Hopefully you'll respond the way he does with "I fizz it".

Edited by ThumpumGood
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I got problens with archgun deployers recently. Everything else on the grear wheel works fine but the archgun.

Mainly on Orb Vallis but it recently happend on hydron aswell.

The bug happens if you are client only. Even if your connection to the host is decent according to the ping indiator.

The archgun deployer works if you stend right next to the host only.

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when i want to trade i can type to the other players in the chat but when they invite me i cant see them and they cant see me i cant make any trades even when i went to cetus or maroos cant find anyone standing 

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On 2021-04-09 at 6:40 PM, adham9090 said:

when i want to trade i can type to the other players in the chat but when they invite me i cant see them and they cant see me i cant make any trades even when i went to cetus or maroos cant find anyone standing 

Sounds related to the following: 

 

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We are closing up this thread now that DTLS has launched with the next-gen Xbox Series X l S build today! Thank you for helping us with the initial launch of DTLS - we will continue to monitor for issues but for now this thread has served its purpose!

We hope you enjoy Update 30: Call of the Tempestarii ! 

 

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