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Its time for immortal pets....


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3 hours ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

You one of those people who needs to drive a nail into a wall, goes into a toolbox, and decides "today I want to use the screwdriver for this job, which it is not suited for" then writes a letter of complaint to the manufacturers to say that the screwdriver isn't as good at driving nails into a wall as a hammer?

You have a variety of tools that are each a little different. They're not the same, and not intended to be the same. You can choose to use the one that's best suited to the task you want to do, or not.

Why is this a problem? 

Because this is a game with a big action-rpg component, primarily based on re-grinding the same thing while experiencing tool variety, not a real job. A reduced suitability of tools only worsen the sensation of grind. Your (sad) metaphore, being based on a real world issue, misses the point by a mile. I guess you were too focused on just poorly trying to ridiculize, so you missed the part about critical reading the OP's issue.

Asking the developers to tune some tools to be better suitable for some more situations is perfectly reasonable. Maybe not to the point of pets being invulnerable, i find that exaggerated too, but at least it highlights the issue: the inability to revive a pet while in a mech is a problem that needs be tackled, as mechs are a game component that will likely receivey much more space in the future. But of course you didn't read that part...

Edited by DebrisFlow
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1 hour ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

You one of those people who needs to drive a nail into a wall, goes into a toolbox, and decides "today I want to use the screwdriver for this job, which it is not suited for" then writes a letter of complaint to the manufacturers to say that the screwdriver isn't as good at driving nails into a wall as a hammer?

You have a variety of tools that are each a little different. They're not the same, and not intended to be the same. You can choose to use the one that's best suited to the task you want to do, or not.

Why is this a problem? 

Sadly most things do not so good job at one thing and worse at another.

Pets (kavats, kubrow, vulpaphyla and predasite as fair I remember) are not suitable for looting, which is very important thing in this game. Only Smeeta kavat do something in exchange for her lack of "looting capabilities".

Sentinels & moas  are on the better position but I rarely use anything that's not Carrier. I use Oxylus to pick some flowers for my little Helminth. And maybe moa is usable for some frame... but that's it.

 

Some pets/sentinels/moa may have nice feature but it's not very good feature that's worth the effort changing companions.

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12 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I dont think they should be immortal, but i would like if Pets health/armor and damage scaled to enemy level like specters. 

then wut about SP version then for how do they scaled hp and armor including with dmg which sentinels will return OP because...well... rapid machine then that sniper rifle, the shotgun then that melee dmg mod they had which there is a riven for these things for them which may bazaarly kill them with in 1 shot probably.

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I definitely agree that in Orphix Venom my sentinels and Pets are going down very quickly unless you use certain frames and builds (on both) that constrict player options, which I know DE wants to avoid, and furthermore it's difficult to resurrect pets in the middle of a mech mission .

In general, pets are just bullet targets that die like crazy in anything over level 60 content, even with all your health/shields/armor link mods, unless you are constantly meleeing with pack leader etc. and even then they will just get one-shot killed eventually through it all. I don't even use Kubrows, Kavats or Predasites in anything because they just go down too easily even with good mods. Moas are prone to this too and the non-prime sentinels, even with Primed Regen on them. The only pets I use with any regularity are the immortal Vulpaphyla and Vasca Kavats, which can heal themselves enough to stick it out longer. I'll use smeeta kavat but only in low level farming missions and every other pet I don't even touch. I really think pets and sentinels need to be self-reviving, like Khora's Venari. The time can be longish, like 1 minute or a minute thirty seconds, and mods like the Vulpaphyla resurrecting one and Regen/Primed Regen, can be modified to shorten the cooldown and have increased effects like additional health, shields or armor on resurrection, to continue their viability.

But if we're not doing that, if Pets had their own version of adaptation, it might help, as well as adding some innate bullet evasion like Xaku (I mean they are supposed to be extra small and fast so kind makes sense?). If your arcanes like Guardian or Grace could apply to your companion that might be helpful too. Or if they had their own versions. I've kind of been wanting to be able to put arcanes on my sentinels and pets for a while, but maybe I'm just weird.

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After immortal pets, I expect guns with unlimited ammo with no reloads or cooldowns. I also expect unlimited energy without arcanes or flow or energy pads or Hunter Adrenaline.

I then will expect a one-shot kill mode for all weapons, Stug included.

Edited by Jarriaga
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short term solution: get a Vulpaphyla.

long term solution: DE needs to decide what Companions are suppsoed to be: vulnerable entities that can aid in sustained DPS and overall combat efficiency, or invulnerable entities that are only utility-focused. if it's the former, they need to bring out better mods for Sentinels and their weapons to make them stronger vs enemies.. if it's the latter, they need to make sure every companion has some degree of utility, be it CC, Ammo Regen, auto-opening crates or something esle that helps outside of Combat (and you wouldn't have to worry about them once in combat.)

as it stands DE are trying to do both, and failing miserably. since adding the immortal Vulpaphylas they've basically broken their system completely, to the point where there is literally no point using anything else than Panzer Vulpaphyla, save for the occasional Smeeta resource farm. Companions 2.0 can't come soon enough.

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50 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

After immortal pets, I expect guns with unlimited ammo with no reloads or cooldowns. I also expect unlimited energy without arcanes or flow or energy pads or Hunter Adrenaline.

I then will expect a one-shot kill mode for all weapons, Stug included.

yeah, an "immortal" vacuum cleaner is totally on par with a god

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

I then will expect a one-shot kill mode for all weapons, Stug included.

It seems interesting. Something like Sanctuary onslought.

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1 hour ago, quxier said:

Sadly most things do not so good job at one thing and worse at another.

Pets (kavats, kubrow, vulpaphyla and predasite as fair I remember) are not suitable for looting, which is very important thing in this game. Only Smeeta kavat do something in exchange for her lack of "looting capabilities".

So what you're saying is that.... one is good at something, and worse at others, and the others are better at something else? 

Sounds like you didn't get the analogy.

 

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Sentinels & moas  are on the better position but I rarely use anything that's not Carrier. I use Oxylus to pick some flowers for my little Helminth. And maybe moa is usable for some frame... but that's it.

Interestingly there's one that fits the theme of this thread, immortality, because it just revives itself as needed. Perhaps some use for others afterall.

 

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Some pets/sentinels/moa may have nice feature but it's not very good feature that's worth the effort changing companions.

Pretty sure it's about 5 clicks?

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7 hours ago, Her_Lovely_Tentacles said:

Sentinels are in a ridiculously bad state especially.

Steel Path, Orphix Venom, Deimos, Deadlock Protocol have all been incredibly unkind to our little floating buddies.

Steel Path because of massive enemy swarms and and general high-level damage.
Orphix Venom because we aren't near them and they still fight a senseless fight alone - and die.
Deimos and Deadlock Protocol because the new enemies have AoE bullets/attacks, and apparently a hateboner for Sentinels.

Being unable to revive them really sucks :/
I will deliberately die just to get my Sentinel back - who will often die again instantly, before I even have finished my revival animation.

Excellent post.

 

Even the Djinn's augment is useless because it will die again, almost immediately, once it finally respawns.

 

Pets should be immortal.  When they die, it's almost never the player's fault.  When my smeeta dies, she's almost always three rooms behind me, crouching in some persistent damage AOE effect.  When my wyrm dies, it's because I was in operator mode for 1 second too long, void dashing across a massive Corpus snow tile, or, like you mention, playing against new Corpus.

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3 hours ago, quxier said:

Sadly most things do not so good job at one thing and worse at another.

Pets (kavats, kubrow, vulpaphyla and predasite as fair I remember) are not suitable for looting, which is very important thing in this game. Only Smeeta kavat do something in exchange for her lack of "looting capabilities".

Sentinels & moas  are on the better position but I rarely use anything that's not Carrier. I use Oxylus to pick some flowers for my little Helminth. And maybe moa is usable for some frame... but that's it.

 

Some pets/sentinels/moa may have nice feature but it's not very good feature that's worth the effort changing companions.

You mean like vacuum? or things like Carriers ammo mutation.  Fetch basically works like vacuum for me and you can put that mod that opens locked chests.

I run vulp exclusively now for it's immortality and even though it only shoots "quills" it seems to function similarly to how it's regular attacks work. I only have  damage mods and the kavat armor striping one.  Then it's fetch and the enemy radar mod. Frees me up for my warframes' builds and the armor strip happens quite often.  It's always nice to see something like a juggernaut or jackal with a red health bar.

I wouldn't mind a similar feature for sentinels or any of the other companions.  Although I'll be sad that my girl is less special. 

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8 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

immortal pets? not selling me fam
immortal sentinels.... now that is a needed feature

Agreed. I'm tired of going into corpus ship levels and having my Carrier use up all of its primed regen uses within the first minute and a half of going into any mission regardless of level on a corpus ship. The elite crewmens supras just instagib your sentinels every single time with the AOE dmg they do.

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

After immortal pets, I expect guns with unlimited ammo with no reloads or cooldowns. I also expect unlimited energy without arcanes or flow or energy pads or Hunter Adrenaline.

I then will expect a one-shot kill mode for all weapons, Stug included.

If you run out of Ammo, you can run around and pick up more or you can toss down ammo pads, your weapon doesn't just disappear for the rest of the mission.

In some game modes you have the luxury of resurrecting your pet if it goes down, and sentinels have a few lives with regen mod. But that doesn't compare to your frame, that has the benefit of better mods, better ai (your brain + skill), the sentinel/pet itself, other players, pads, arcanes, powerful weapons, 4 lives without modding and more with focus, and bleedout if you go down on top of that. Your sentinel or pet just can't compare. It will never be able to survive what your warframe can. If your sentinel or pet is something you're expected to have for the whole mission, like a weapon, then it needs to be unkillable, because it just can't keep up.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

short term solution: get a Vulpaphyla.

long term solution: DE needs to decide what Companions are suppsoed to be: vulnerable entities that can aid in sustained DPS and overall combat efficiency, or invulnerable entities that are only utility-focused. if it's the former, they need to bring out better mods for Sentinels and their weapons to make them stronger vs enemies.. if it's the latter, they need to make sure every companion has some degree of utility, be it CC, Ammo Regen, auto-opening crates or something esle that helps outside of Combat (and you wouldn't have to worry about them once in combat.)

as it stands DE are trying to do both, and failing miserably. since adding the immortal Vulpaphylas they've basically broken their system completely, to the point where there is literally no point using anything else than Panzer Vulpaphyla, save for the occasional Smeeta resource farm. Companions 2.0 can't come soon enough.

There could be an interesting fix for this such as installing some sort of defensive module in the place of the sentinel weapon.  Thus making them effectively immortal but unable to damage enemies.  Like being permanently in the rift, always invisible, or with a shield that can't be harmed by normal weapons. Then when you are in a situation that calls for the need of a sentinel or special traits of a companion. You lose their ability to help you kill things but they never die.

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46 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

So what you're saying is that.... one is good at something, and worse at others, and the others are better at something else? 

Sounds like you didn't get the analogy.

I get it - you use something that's fits a job the best. You want scan flowers - use Oxylus. You want additional loot - use Smeeta kavat.

What I mean is there are only few that are doing something very different. If there is one companion good at lot's of things and other that is maybe little better at X but worse at Y & Z then there is no big reason to change.

47 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Pretty sure it's about 5 clicks?

I would say it's around 10. However you have to do it a lot for not big gains. I'm ok with changing weapons/frames but not companions.

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Hear me out on this:

What if companions just inherited all their owner's survivability effects by default?

You have Adaptation and get stacks, your pet has those Adaptation stacks (or generates their own independently).
You buff yourself with Damage Resistance, Invisibility or Evasion, your pet gets it. No specifically casting the buff onto someone's pets (for the ones you even have that option), you just apply it to the player and it carries over. Also fixes the infuriating problem with Ivara's cloak arrows where idiot pets jump out of the bubble uncontrollably to draw aggro.
You Transfer out and your Sentinel gets that same protection while left a sitting duck that your Warframe does (whether the 'active buff' 90% DR or the full-immunity), while your mobile pet either inherits the same or gets to inherit Void Mode from your Operator.

You can even extend this to restoratives / health pool extender buffs. Oberon no longer has to pay extra energy taxes for each pet also needing heals, they just inherit the heal over time from their master. Hildryn doesn't need to link onto pets as extras, just to the owner and it carries over. Trinity only needs to see the affinity icon on the squad-mate to know their pet is getting the heal and protection from Blessing.
Big quality of life for per-target drains and those idiot pets who get distracted fighting something 3 rooms back.

This should NOT gained by blowing another mod slot on a new 'buff link' though. It should be innate.

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1 minute ago, quxier said:

What I mean is there are only few that are doing something very different. If there is one companion good at lot's of things and other that is maybe little better at X but worse at Y & Z then there is no big reason to change.

Unless what you want it to do is X. For example I seldom use Oxylus, I've got a Helios, Carrier, or even Smeeta that I prefer, but if I need to make some more apothics, I'll pop on the companion that gets the job done. When I did the new event, I noticed that my companion had died, and figured I prefer having something that sticks around to help bring in the energy orbs, so I switched to the new-kavat instead, to get the job done, although I've almost never had a cause to use it otherwise.

It's the same thing we ran into when hunting the Wolf. Some people prefered to whine that whatever weapon build they thought was godlike and should get the job done, but others paid attention to what they wanted to achieve, and built for that. (Like no joke, I literally saw people insisting that their choice should decimate everything in the game, and when they posted builds they weren't anywhere near as good as those people claimed, and utter crap when it came to delivering massive crit damage or even the right types.)

Literally the point of the game, "choose the appropriate tools for the job", even the limited "tutorial" aspect of the game told us to try to use heat damage, when enemies are weak against heat damage as I recall.

12 minutes ago, quxier said:

I would say it's around 10. However you have to do it a lot for not big gains. I'm ok with changing weapons/frames but not companions.

Must be different on PC. For us it's one to enter the arsenal, one to click on the companion tab, one to change the companion, one to select the new companion, and one to leave the arsenal. 🤷‍♂️

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8 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Panzer turns into an unmodded sentinel when it dies. It's pretty much worthless in that state. Sure, it can proc viral but I can do that. All I want out of a pet is enemy radar and loot pick up radius.

It can proc viral while you proc things that are not viral.

also it may be worthless in sentinel mode, but it revives after 30 seconds.

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Just out of curiosity: for those who want companions to be immortal, have you potatoed or forma'd any of your companions?  Or maximized any of the companion mods for survival?  I have not, but looking at the mods I have, I have a feeling that I could make them really tanky if I wanted to.  With that, and the Vulpaphylas' 30-second rebirth/immortality, I really don't see much point in making all of them immortal...

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9 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

You can't use those on Sentinels. Immortal pets don't make the game "easier" either. Their main use for most people is literally radar and picking up loot. Even some other uses Sentinels get still function even when they're dead.

Saying inconvenience is a form of difficulty is highly silly. Several combinations also already make them virtually un-killable.

Some people on every games forum use "difficulty" as an excuse to mockingly attempt to shame people into shutting up, or to make them jump down their throat for...reasons. Funny thing is, they use it for everything, and i do mean EVERYTHING. I guess it's so easy and convenient. Of course it also works to derail the thread, which might cause a moderator to close it. Calling it "silly" is understatement of the century.

Like guzmantt1977 here proves "YoU NeEd To BuIld It RighT." Pfft, yeah. If the AI is so stupid it stands in suicide and dies, and making the pet immortal yourself is the only way to make it last, it makes me wonder why they are agains just making all pets simply immortal. What's the difference? You precious build no doubt, and whatever accomplishment they see in such an unlikely achievement. What a joke.

 

Edited by (PSN)Yggranya
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