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Its time for immortal pets....


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I played orphix venom trying to keep alive, keeping a vizier pet alive.

For that purpose I used a fully pimped out atlas and a fully pimped out vizier with the link mods, that gives them a percentage of my stats. Vizier still got smoked on the regular.

But the question is the intent of the gameplay.

Maybe they think having a death mechanic increases engagement and keeps you invested into forma and mods for your pet. Didn't they also add a heal pet ability to helminth I am sure they will want to keep relevant.

Same thing with balance and high end content - maybe something like a status spam build or something else they don't want you to have access to, on that level.

I just don't think you can assume they want your pet to live.

Maybe a respawn mechanic as on khora's kavat wouldn't be the worst thing to ever happen.

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I agree with the sentiment that companions (both sentinel and beast) needs to have a "persistence" to them.

I used  my smeeta a lot cause it was providing some of the best buffs in the game. And the occasional downtime needed to revive it was well worth it.

But since the release of deimos and the vulpaphylas i havent changed from my panzer , not only does it provide some of the best enemy debuffs but it needs little to no upkeep,

sure i wont get double the affinity or resources , but having a room filled with viral spores that spread is more than enough of a DPS boost.

So i have stacked it with full utility , healing , armor strip , radar , synth mods and my god is everything just more convenient.

And its not OP cause it does get downed and becomes a weaker version of itself during which time i lose some utility , but the down time is less than teh amount i would need to go find my downed smeeta , revive it , and get back to where i was.

 

So my suggestion is not to make all companions immortal , my suggestion is to add a mod similar to devolution for each companion type with minor utility of its own (sentinel , moa, kubrow, kavat and predasite)

Sentinel: Self repair precept - sentinel repairs itself over 30 seconds when fatally wounded, while clinging to the warframe. any enemies that come within melee distance of the warframe will get shocked.

Moa: Scavenge and reconstruct precept - moa recovers itself over 30 seconds when fatally wounded . while clinging to the warframe. enemies corpses are desecrated (no bonus drops) but they can leave behind health orbs just as frequently.

Kubrow: Retreat and Recon precept - Kubrow retreats when fatally wounded over 30 seconds, while retreated it provides bonus weakspot damage / creates weakspots like sonar.

Kavat: Subterrain sabotage - Kavat retreats into the ground when fatally wounded and recovers over 30 seconds - knocks down enemies within 10 meters every 10 seconds.

Predasite : Martyrs march - Predasite retreats into the ground when fatally wounded and recovers over 30 seconds - provides knockdown immunity.

 

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9 hours ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

You ever noticed how the game is literally designed around modifying your builds to suit the enemies you'll face? No? Missed that entire aspect of the game by a mile?

Perhaps you should go back to the basics and try to figure that part out? Then you'd be less prone to missing the point of the simple metaphor, or at least less likely to demand that a screwdriver be as good at driving a nail as a hammer. 😉

You ever noticed how that's only a partial component of the game and not its founding paradigm? No? Misinterpreted that entire aspect of the game only to support your opinionated strawman argument? 

Perhaps you should go back to the basics of my previous post and figure again the part about experiencing diversity that, as a fact, you like it or not, is the other big component of the game? Then you'd be less prone to missing the point that forcing the user to a very restricted selection of tools in a wide selection of missions is only detrimental to the experience, or at least less likely to demand this game be as strict at experiencing as real life. 😉

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4 hours ago, Surbusken said:

I played orphix venom trying to keep alive, keeping a vizier pet alive.

For that purpose I used a fully pimped out atlas and a fully pimped out vizier with the link mods, that gives them a percentage of my stats. Vizier still got smoked on the regular.

Yeah, you're right.  There's probably no way for pets to survive Orphix Venom.  But that's not a "normal" event, is it?  I mean, the whole thing was kind of sado-masochistic in that the enemies hit super hard, you hit super hard, and your pets aren't even with you most of the time.  Can your predasite survive Steel Path with your setup?

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23 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

You ever noticed how that's only a partial component of the game and not its founding paradigm? No? Misinterpreted that entire aspect of the game only to support your opinionated strawman argument? 

Perhaps you should go back to the basics of my previous post and figure again the part about experiencing diversity that, as a fact, you like it or not, is the other big component of the game? Then you'd be less prone to missing the point that forcing the user to a very restricted selection of tools in a wide selection of missions is only detrimental to the experience, or at least less likely to demand this game be as strict at experiencing as real life. 😉

Shooter looter, Tenno. We're here to deal damage to our enemies. We can deal various types of damage. Our enemies are made to resist various types of damage, but be weak against other types. 

The game literally explains this to us, and makes the information available throughout our journey. 

You may prefer to go in blind, ignore the resistances, pray for the best, but that's not what the game wants us to do. The game wants us to adapt to the enemy, to the missions we are going into, and it gives us the tools to do so. Did you think that it was a coincidence that we can have multiple different configurations preset on our gear? It's so that we can rapidly swap builds to better face what's going to be dealt with in the next mission. 

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19 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

Yeah, you're right.  There's probably no way for pets to survive Orphix Venom.  But that's not a "normal" event, is it?  I mean, the whole thing was kind of sado-masochistic in that the enemies hit super hard, you hit super hard, and your pets aren't even with you most of the time.  Can your predasite survive Steel Path with your setup?

I don't know. All I have is questions.

What I was driving at is OP's premise that pets die too easily while we don't know if that's exactly what the developers want them to.

And as for steel path I haven't played it much since I am not farming kuva.

I only used the atlas vizier link build specifically to have healing for the mechs during the operation.

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I started a thread about this as well not too long ago in feedback: 

So yeah, I agree they need to be immortal, theres no real reason for them not to be. If DE is afraid of AFK farming again, just make them stand idle if you are idle too.

Reviving your pet every 5sec on any challenging content is not fun at all, and using link-mods and Inaros on everything is not a solution. 

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8 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

It can proc viral while you proc things that are not viral.

also it may be worthless in sentinel mode, but it revives after 30 seconds.

In endurance I have more uptime on Djinn than I do Panzer and I can also stat stick burst laser with augur mods for better shield gating on Djinn. Companions tend to wander and get themselves killed a lot while Djinn stays close and if I have good cc it doesn't go down nearly as often.

I really wanted to like Panzer but it just turns into your pet has been revived spam in the middle of my screen. 

Panzer probably works a lot better in normal content on frames that use health and armor but I almost never do that. 

 

I always thought that an easy fix for companion/sentinels would be to give them all the ability to respawn like Djinn but after that respawn have them scale with enemy lvl like specters do. Would probably work to well and will never happen though. 

Edited by Berzerkules
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57 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Shooter looter, Tenno. We're here to deal damage to our enemies. We can deal various types of damage. Our enemies are made to resist various types of damage, but be weak against other types. 

The game literally explains this to us, and makes the information available throughout our journey. 

You may prefer to go in blind, ignore the resistances, pray for the best, but that's not what the game wants us to do. The game wants us to adapt to the enemy, to the missions we are going into, and it gives us the tools to do so. Did you think that it was a coincidence that we can have multiple different configurations preset on our gear? It's so that we can rapidly swap builds to better face what's going to be dealt with in the next mission. 

Seriously, try to figure out what you have been missing all of this time. It'll work out far better for you, than trying to pretend that ignorance is a superior tactic, and in the long run you'll embarrass yourself far less. 

Good luck with that. 

Using companions mainly as utility tools, not damage dealers, Tenno. We're here to deal damage to our enemies with our weapons and warframes, while our companions are here to assist with utilities (the discussion was about companions, do you remember? No, apparently you prefer to bring in more unrelated strawman arguments to cover the fact that you failed to disprove my point).  

The game literally explains this to us, and makes the information available throughout our journey. 

Seriously, try to figure out what you have been missing all of this time. It'll work out far better for you, than trying to pretend that ignorance is a superior tactic, and in the long run you'll embarrass yourself far less. 

PS

I'm sorry if i'm just copy-pasting that last part, but you are doing such a great job at pointing at your own flaws that i could't write it better

Edited by DebrisFlow
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Definitely not a blanket immortality buff for the sake of QoL-easy-farming: high survivability should come as a reward for build-making commitment, not because "this is a looter-shooter, I work hard to farm, I need a better workplace, need more QoL or I go on a strike": I play for the gameplay, not to have a second job.

That said, pets do need some kind of work: I don't understand why Inaros should be a better pet master than Banshee, for example; sentinels need to be able to respawn in some way; most of the sentinel/moa weapons need to be update to some higher standard, etc.

Heck, even being able to slap Adaptation on them would be a huge step forward.

But if you can't find the time in 1:20 minutes (whatever the bleed-out timer is for pets with the dedicated mod) to go to spoiler mode, BECOME INVINCIBLE and revive the pet that literally TELEPORTS to your position, that's on you.

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50 minutes ago, DebrisFlow said:

Using companions mainly as utility tools, not damage dealers, Tenno. We're here to deal damage to our enemies with our weapons and warframes, while our companions are here to assist with utilities (the discussion was about companions, do you remember? No, apparently you prefer to bring in more unrelated strawman arguments to cover the fact that you failed to disprove my point).  

The game literally explains this to us, and makes the information available throughout our journey. 

Seriously, try to figure out what you have been missing all of this time. It'll work out far better for you, than trying to pretend that ignorance is a superior tactic, and in the long run you'll embarrass yourself far less. 

PS

I'm sorry if i'm just copy-pasting that last part, but you are doing such a great job at pointing at your own flaws that i could't write it better

Just goes to show how little you think about what you're doing, doesn't it? 

You have a world of options to choose from, in order to achieve an effect, but all you can do is copy what others are doing without really putting an effort into thinking things through. 

If you had thought about it, then you would have grasped that in missions where you expect the companion to die, but want it to survive, then the best way to maintain the utility is to choose a companion which can self-revive. Instead you chose to whine about what you perceive as a "lack of choice". 

In the meantime, those of us who exercise our ability to choose the appropriate tools for the job, are still wondering what all the fuss is about. 

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1 hour ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Just goes to show how little you think about what you're doing, doesn't it? 

You have a world of options to choose from, in order to achieve an effect, but all you can do is copy what others are doing without really putting an effort into thinking things through. 

If you had thought about it, then you would have grasped that in missions where you expect the companion to die, but want it to survive, then the best way to maintain the utility is to choose a companion which can self-revive. Instead you chose to whine about what you perceive as a "lack of choice". 

In the meantime, those of us who exercise our ability to choose the appropriate tools for the job, are still wondering what all the fuss is about. 

No, it just shows how little-to-no-effort you put into understanding a critic to a game feature whose discussion you decide to partake in, and properly replying to counter-arguments. You dismiss discussion points with strawman arguments and overly faulty mantras, i put little-to-no-effort in recycling your accusations.

If you had thought about it, then you would have grasped that in missions where you expect the companion to die, but want it to survive, being limited to 2/3 choices out of dozens is poor design in a game based on experiencing diversity while grinding the same thing

Yes, i repeated again my main point because you continue to fail to address (or finally aknowledge) it: "lack of choice" is detrimental in this game, and what you call "exercise our ability to choose the appropriate tools for the job" is not freedom of choice, it's necessity. 

You are barricated in an extremist position where you think that every game challenge should be tackled with a specific tool. My position is in a middle between your "right tool for right task" and "a sufficient variety of means to overcome the sensation of repetition". Let's have a wild guess to which of ours is closer to the truth of this game design? Uhm, 40+ warframes and hundreds of weapons with highly overlapping statistics and abilities, with more being pushed every couple of months. But wait, isn't the whole game about killing some enemies in a circle, defending a console and hacking a console? Why 40+ warframes and hundreds of weapons? Aren't 3 sufficient? Wild guess is that i am closer.

 

Edited by DebrisFlow
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13 hours ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Must be different on PC. For us it's one to enter the arsenal, one to click on the companion tab, one to change the companion, one to select the new companion, and one to leave the arsenal. 🤷‍♂️

It's ESC (key)> Arsenal > Companions > Select > Double click to select > ESC

 

13 hours ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Literally the point of the game, "choose the appropriate tools for the job", even the limited "tutorial" aspect of the game told us to try to use heat damage, when enemies are weak against heat damage as I recall.

My best tool is Carrier (prime).

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3 hours ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

 you had thought about it, then you would have grasped that in missions where you expect the companion to die, but want it to survive, then the best way to maintain the utility is to choose a companion which can self-revive. Instead you chose to whine about what you perceive as a "lack of choice". 

In the meantime, those of us who exercise our ability to choose the appropriate tools for the job, are still wondering what all the fuss is about. 

 

10 hours ago, Butterfly85 said:

Pets are fine, if you mod them right. Sentinels would be in a better place if they had the same link mods pets have.

Im gonna assume you both play only star chart starter content or only one high health/armor warframe at all times. 

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I can speak only for sentinels, and from my observations my conclusion is that no amount of auto-revive or revive gear is enough to make up for their fragility. They pop instantly from an infested osprey's fart trail starting from those levels where the cloud ticks for 600 toxic damage. Or even 300 toxic damage, since 2 ticks are nearly always guaranteed when passing through it.

Also

Quote

Dear diary,

Today I've spotted thread #9023748 on why pets needs a buff. I tried to encourage DE through giving my inputs on the matter, but I got an inexplicable feeling that it will fall on deaf ears. I suspect there's no end in sight.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, xombob89 said:

 

Im gonna assume you both play only star chart starter content or only one high health/armor warframe at all times. 

Completed Steel Path, do sorties, arbies and a fair amount of Profit Taker runs. Only reason I don't do eidalons is the hydrolyst fight ruins my eyes.

 As for frames, I take the frames that are tailored to the mission in question. 

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I also think pets should be hard to knock out and sentinels should be immortal however some form of penalty should still be in place.

For pets, using the Veneri(sp?) command system would be great, simplifying their AI but also positioning them as we would like. However, I'd refrain from having a "target" command and just keep a simple system like: attack, stealth, defend and decoy.

For sentinels, I would scale their abilities, armor and health but create an "overheat" system where sustained damage results in diminished returns like a reverse Ember setup. Once a threshold is hit, a cool-down is activated, immobilizing the sentinel for up to 30 seconds. To counter this, we simply stop taking damage so the overheat can subside at a moderately fast pace, like shields. High levels mean higher overheat thresholds, longer time to reduce overheat but no change in cool-down if the threshold is reached.

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3 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

No, it just shows how little-to-no-effort you put into understanding a critic to a game feature whose discussion you decide to partake in, and properly replying to counter-arguments. You dismiss discussion points with strawman arguments and overly faulty mantras, i put little-to-no-effort in recycling your accusations.

If you had thought about it, then you would have grasped that in missions where you expect the companion to die, but want it to survive, being limited to 2/3 choices out of dozens is poor design in a game based on experiencing diversity while grinding the same thing

Ohhhh so you think that being able to use a single companion at all times, = "experiencing diversity"?

I'll give you a chance to think about that. 

3 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

Yes, i repeated again my main point because you continue to fail to address (or finally aknowledge) it: "lack of choice" is detrimental in this game, and what you call "exercise our ability to choose the appropriate tools for the job" is not freedom of choice, it's necessity. 

Clearly you don't think about the things that you say. Again you absolutely have the choice to try to use a screwdriver to drive a nail into the wall. It would be a really dumb choice, but you do have the option to try it. But when that doesn't work well, it's ridiculous to demand that all screwdrivers be made to be as effective at driving nails as a hammer.

3 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

You are barricated in an extremist position where you think that every game challenge should be tackled with a specific tool. My position is in a middle between your "right tool for right task" and "a sufficient variety of means to overcome the sensation of repetition". Let's have a wild guess to which of ours is closer to the truth of this game design? Uhm, 40+ warframes and hundreds of weapons with highly overlapping statistics and abilities, with more being pushed every couple of months. But wait, isn't the whole game about killing some enemies in a circle, defending a console and hacking a console? Why 40+ warframes and hundreds of weapons? Aren't 3 sufficient? Wild guess is that i am closer.

 

See you still don't grasp that when you have a variety of jobs, and a variety of tools, of course there are going to be times when you have choices. And that's not a bad thing. Just like how I have multiple options to the op in my very first post to this thread. But by that token there will also be tools that are NOT good at what you need to do. But that's not a bad thing, because they're good at doing OTHER things. 

By demanding that everything be made equal, you're not increasing diversity, you're actually trying to rob the game of diversity, because then you'd never need to pick anything else. At that point choices become irrelevant, and you would literally have put yourself in a position where you have 1 frame, 1 weapon for each slot, and 1 companion at all times. But hey, from your previous posts, I kinda suspect that's already exactly what you do.

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3 hours ago, quxier said:

It's ESC (key)> Arsenal > Companions > Select > Double click to select > ESC

Ah yes, 7 clicks, but to be fair I didn't count that first one to enter the escape menu I guess.

3 hours ago, quxier said:

My best tool is Carrier (prime).

I don't tend to run low on Ammo when I'm using most of the others, so that advantage isn't something I usually seek. The loot buffs my Mr Smee give me usually outweigh the difference.

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15 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:
4 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

No, it just shows how little-to-no-effort you put into understanding a critic to a game feature whose discussion you decide to partake in, and properly replying to counter-arguments. You dismiss discussion points with strawman arguments and overly faulty mantras, i put little-to-no-effort in recycling your accusations.

If you had thought about it, then you would have grasped that in missions where you expect the companion to die, but want it to survive, being limited to 2/3 choices out of dozens is poor design in a game based on experiencing diversity while grinding the same thing

Ohhhh so you think that being able to use a single companion at all times, = "experiencing diversity"?

I'll give you a chance to think about that. 

Oh, now twisting 180° what i said? You are really trying to tailor the false image of my opinions in your mind to your rethoric? Desperate times call for desperate moves, i see. 

18 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Clearly you don't think about the things that you say. Again you absolutely have the choice to try to use a screwdriver to drive a nail into the wall. It would be a really dumb choice, but you do have the option to try it. But when that doesn't work well, it's ridiculous to demand that all screwdrivers be made to be as effective at driving nails as a hammer.

Am i asking all companions to be good in everything? No, your imagination would like that to support this improper screwdriver argument of yours. Take a pause and clear your mind from those prejudices. 

Excessive susceptibility of companions to death is a reported issue in all high level contents:

  • you are fine with 2 companion types being optimal in all those occasions and all of the other companions being totally worthless (no choice here, only selection of a tool for necessity);
  • i'm advocating for 2 companion types being optimal in all those occasions and all of the other companions being at least viable (choice of the best tool OR of a non-optimal but still viable one).

You are just playing again the "I do things right, everyone else is stupid" card (or better, "Dehihiho, everyone else is stupid except me" [cit]) because of the aforementioned misconception you conveniently adopted to twist my words.

39 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

By demanding that everything be made equal, you're not increasing diversity, you're actually trying to rob the game of diversity, because then you'd never need to pick anything else. At that point choices become irrelevant, and you would literally have put yourself in a position where you have 1 frame, 1 weapon for each slot, and 1 companion at all times. But hey, from your previous posts, I kinda suspect that's already exactly what you do.

Same prejudice, caused by the same misconception as above. Clear your mind from that and have a second thought (and possibly a third and a fourth). You are drifing away in these laughable extremist conclusions because of that.

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4 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

Oh, now twisting 180° what i said? You are really trying to tailor the false image of my opinions in your mind to your rethoric? Desperate times call for desperate moves, i see. 

Am i asking all companions to be good in everything? No, your imagination would like that to support this improper screwdriver argument of yours. Take a pause and clear your mind from those prejudices. 

Excessive susceptibility of companions to death is a reported issue in all high level contents:

  • you are fine with 2 companion types being optimal in all those occasions and all of the other companions being totally worthless (no choice here, only selection of a tool for necessity);
  • i'm advocating for 2 companion types being optimal in all those occasions and all of the other companions being at least viable (choice of the best tool OR of a non-optimal but still viable one).

You are just playing again the "I do things right, everyone else is stupid" card (or better, "Dehihiho, everyone else is stupid except me" [cit]) because of the aforementioned misconception you conveniently adopted to twist my words.

Same prejudice, caused by the same misconception as above. Clear your mind from that and have a second thought (and possibly a third and a fourth). You are drifing away in these laughable extremist conclusions because of that.

Again, not impressed. 

You literally indicate that you have a choice of 2 functionally immortal pets, (really it's far more than that, but would require you to actually understand how to make wise choices or at least build, and occasionally revive your pets before they die, or after).

You're playing the "I don't want what I want, despite it being what I have said I want, and what I want is to have pets that don't die, so I can choose, but then I'd never need to choose, so give me what I want, because I want it". At some point you're going to develop a level of self awareness and cringe when you look back at your posts. But how long it takes, is anyone's guess. That's on you.

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