Conclave needs to be changed

[Jackdarsan]

Conclave is the only part of the game I have yet to be able to enjoy. This game being mostly PVE does seem odd to incorporate PVP but I can see the appeal. 

However, it does seem to be a dead end due to the little to no player base. Not sure why DE would just forget about it and not change it up to make it more accessible. Much like Sedna endo farming, where you play vs AI why not have that option for conclave? AI lately has improved and well can kick most peoples butts but i'm sure there might be some that would hate the idea. 

Being a completionist , would like to build up the rep and collect the items up for grabs. Currently there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. 

Anyone else wanting a change to this part of warframe?

[Sevek7]

Yeah DE had some pretty radical ideas about how to implement PvP in Warframe. The original version allowed players to compete in PvP to control star chart nodes, and as a result the clans who controlled those nodes would passively gain resources as a reward. Unfortunately, DE decided that those resources should be taken from other people playing on those nodes! Not only that, but clans could decide how much they wanted to take. So, to nobody's surprise, the system was hated by a large amount of the playerbase. 

So DE scrapped that and replaced it with conclave. But that didn't mean they were finished with radical ideas! Here are some radical DE ideas that remain:

1. Don't have skill based matchmaking [recruit conditioning does not even come close]. Let totally new players fight the conclave veterans and get stomped until they give up! 

2. Don't fix any exploits! Let them linger for months, no - years! Ignore all feedback in the conclave section of the forums.

3. Don't punish cheaters and exploiters. Just let people abuse all the broken stuff forever! 

So yes, I would like to see a change to this part of Warframe. In particular, I would like for DE to change those 3 radical ideas into the tried and true methods like skill based matchmaking, fixing exploits in a timely manner, and punishing people who cheat. Without those three things, PvP will never be popular in Warframe.

Even if everything else about Warframe's PvP is changed, as long as those 3 points remain the same it will be avoided by almost everyone.

[Jackdarsan]

WOW @Sevek7 did not know that history, only been play for 2 years and during all that time its been dead. 

I guess it isn't making any money for DE so they wont bother making any changes. Fingers crossed that there is plans to change it or at worst case just make alternative ways to build rep to just get the items.  

[-ODIN-SwoleChef]

always thought the easiest and best way to make pvp viable was to make it necramech only pvp. mech are big and slow enough to make maneuverability a non-issue(yea theres the mech dash thing, but that only goes so far), your op could be used to disable an enemy mechs abilities for a short time and has a cooldown so people arent just spamming lasers from your op. This wouldnt apply to lunaro tho

[Loxyen]

14 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Yeah DE had some pretty radical ideas about how to implement PvP in Warframe. The original version allowed players to compete in PvP to control star chart nodes, and as a result the clans who controlled those nodes would passively gain resources as a reward. Unfortunately, DE decided that those resources should be taken from other people playing on those nodes! Not only that, but clans could decide how much they wanted to take. So, to nobody's surprise, the system was hated by a large amount of the playerbase. 

Conclave existed before the dark sector system and later we had both. They simply used the moment when they scrapped dark sectors to rework the conclave system

[Tachmag]

15 hours ago, -ODIN-hugeblackdude said:

always thought the easiest and best way to make pvp viable was to make it necramech only pvp. mech are big and slow enough to make maneuverability a non-issue(yea theres the mech dash thing, but that only goes so far) 

Why not go a step further: the Necramechs are also in wheelchairs.

That way, they can't move at all and everyone can get a kill no matter how absolutely trash they are at the game. 

[Tachmag]

On 2021-01-28 at 2:32 AM, Jackdarsan said:

Conclave is the only part of the game I have yet to be able to enjoy. This game being mostly PVE does seem odd to incorporate PVP but I can see the appeal. 

However, it does seem to be a dead end due to the little to no player base. Not sure why DE would just forget about it and not change it up to make it more accessible. Much like Sedna endo farming, where you play vs AI why not have that option for conclave? AI lately has improved and well can kick most peoples butts but i'm sure there might be some that would hate the idea.

This already exists: Rathum and Index. Conclave doesn't need to become those gamemodes because they already exist. 

 

On 2021-01-28 at 2:32 AM, Jackdarsan said:

Being a completionist , would like to build up the rep and collect the items up for grabs. Currently there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. 

Oh, I see. You want the rewards to be more accessible. But what you are suggesting would essentially cause the destruction of the game's PvP, all just to obtain some jpegs for guns.

Turning PvP into PvE would be getting rid of other people's source of enjoyment, as some people do enjoy the game's PvP and very much prefer it over PvE. 

I wouldn't be opposed to having bots if they didn't reward standing though. But having them reward standing would just make people farm the bots until someone joins, at which point they'd find a new bot lobby. 

[VisionAndVoice]

On 2021-01-28 at 4:56 AM, Sevek7 said:

The original version allowed players to compete in PvP to control star chart nodes, and as a result the clans who controlled those nodes would passively gain resources as a reward.

The original version was what we have now, only worse, with specific conclave nodes scattered across the system that you could only access if you fit within ceratin "conclave rating" bracket. If you think current system is imbalanced you haven't seen that.

[Fraank]

On 2021-01-28 at 3:56 AM, Sevek7 said:

Yeah DE had some pretty radical ideas about how to implement PvP in Warframe. The original version allowed players to compete in PvP to control star chart nodes, and as a result the clans who controlled those nodes would passively gain resources as a reward. Unfortunately, DE decided that those resources should be taken from other people playing on those nodes! Not only that, but clans could decide how much they wanted to take. So, to nobody's surprise, the system was hated by a large amount of the playerbase. 

So DE scrapped that and replaced it with conclave. But that didn't mean they were finished with radical ideas! Here are some radical DE ideas that remain:

1. Don't have skill based matchmaking [recruit conditioning does not even come close]. Let totally new players fight the conclave veterans and get stomped until they give up! 

2. Don't fix any exploits! Let them linger for months, no - years! Ignore all feedback in the conclave section of the forums.

3. Don't punish cheaters and exploiters. Just let people abuse all the broken stuff forever! 

So yes, I would like to see a change to this part of Warframe. In particular, I would like for DE to change those 3 radical ideas into the tried and true methods like skill based matchmaking, fixing exploits in a timely manner, and punishing people who cheat. Without those three things, PvP will never be popular in Warframe.

Even if everything else about Warframe's PvP is changed, as long as those 3 points remain the same it will be avoided by almost everyone.

We ended up with Helios BPs and stuff in our alliance vault. Not sure who that poor guy was but it was quite funny to read. And the only thing alliances were intrested in were credits. But that has nothing to do with PvP. That was the PvE part of Dark Sectors. The PvP (DS Conflicts) were very unbalanced, but fun.

And you are partially wrong. DE didnt replace DarkSector with Conclave. Conclave was available before Dark Sectors. => DS simply got removed. 

1. Agree. It was a fast paced 3rd person Unreal Tournament. Now it is a - for a good reason ignored - trash³ gamemode.
2. Agree. DE listend to every single complaint about how "Unfair" conclave is. First the players were "too fast" which is why the movement got nerfed. And after that all weapons got balanced to be the same trash. Even snipers dont one-shot the opponent anymore. At least bows should be able to one shot with a body shot.
3. I m ok with punishing cheaters. (e.g. using external software, macroing, etc.)

An easy first fix would be to reverse the past 90% of all the changes the PvP team has made. Balancing weapons was the dumbest idea so far. Oh, and PvP forces you to get a weapon you'd like to use a 2nd time since you need different polarities than in PvE.

I can only recommend new players to avoid this gamemode.

[Jackdarsan]

6 hours ago, Fraank said:

I can only recommend new players to avoid this gamemode.

At this stage is being avoided unintentionally since no one is joining random games. 

Would people be against a total revamp and remove PVP all together and make it a new PVE game modes. 

[Tyreaus]

32 minutes ago, Jackdarsan said:

At this stage is being avoided unintentionally since no one is joining random games. 

Would people be against a total revamp and remove PVP all together and make it a new PVE game modes. 

I don't think it's worth completely scrapping PvP as a game mode idea. I do feel it would be more beneficial for everyone if the rewards had other means of acquisition, even if it was just straight-up Platinum, because 1. current measures of standing gain provide a pretty good reason for people to lean on exploits and 2. many of the people the exclusive rewards entice are those who don't like the mode but suffer through it for the stuff - and that just doesn't lead to a positive experience for anyone involved. But just turning what exists into a PvE mode doesn't sit well with me, not when there's potential for some ridiculous PvP stuff. Things like custom maps and/or custom servers, or unlimited Conclave with instant respawns, or bringing back old events - the sort of stuff that's just fun to mess around in.

[Jackdarsan]

Vive la révolution

I want to see some positive changes, come on DE please let us know if anything is being planned to re-vamp this mode.

I am not giving up on this, until something shinny comes along and then I will most likely forget about it.

After that though, I will be back for sure to continue pushing this point :p

[Okami_Amaterasu]

On 2021-01-28 at 3:02 PM, -ODIN-hugeblackdude said:

always thought the easiest and best way to make pvp viable was to make it necramech only pvp. mech are big and slow enough to make maneuverability a non-issue(yea theres the mech dash thing, but that only goes so far), your op could be used to disable an enemy mechs abilities for a short time and has a cooldown so people arent just spamming lasers from your op. This wouldnt apply to lunaro tho

That's a good idea if you want to completely kill PvP in this game and turn it into just another TPS. Movement isn't the issue.

[Stormdragon]

17 minutes ago, Okami_Shiranui said:

That's a good idea if you want to completely kill PvP in this game and turn it into just another TPS. Movement isn't the issue.

Can confirm, back when i could play often i'd sometimes find players with a skill gap so big that they would be unable to kill me even if i decided to rely only on walk/sprint and roll (fwiw, i've never been a "top player", "pro", and consider my aiming and parkour skills quite lackluster) 

[Jackdarsan]

Whats that DE.... what did you say... oh nothing.... thought you might have mentioned something about updating Conclave. 

[Sevek7]

4 hours ago, Jackdarsan said:

Whats that DE.... what did you say... oh nothing.... thought you might have mentioned something about updating Conclave. 

Old content = forgotten content. That's just the way DE operate. As a design philosophy it sounds shaky since it obviously leaves players who enjoy that older content unhappy, but nevertheless this philosophy has generally worked well for DE.

I think it is more likely for DE to design an entirely new PvP game-mode than it is for them to fix even a single tiny bug in Conclave. 

[Godmode_Ash]

Conclave will never be balanced unless they force everyone use similar loadout. It is just impossible to balance all the warframe and weapon, and make them fair. 

[Stormdragon]

4 hours ago, Godmode_Ash said:

Conclave will never be balanced unless they force everyone use similar loadout. It is just impossible to balance all the warframe and weapon, and make them fair. 

Huh, entirely removing choice isn't the only way to achieve balance. Most of the people claiming that PvP in warframe simply can't be balanced can be easily proven wrong by people who were there and played it before the Plains of Eidolon update, where balance was pretty much on point with all warframes and weapons at that time were enabled for it.

 

Balance started going downhill with PvE changes to primaries and secondaries made around PoE and carried over to PvP and came with the addition of zaws in an unbalanced state that took around a year to be fixed. After that more negative PvE changes have been carried over to PvP and DE simply hasn't done anything about them despite being reported right since their introduction, backing up the feel that devs and community managers don't even check this subforum anymore.

[Japheth]

I think Conclave can become a great way to play the game and bring people who love more of a PvP aspect in their game. DE unfortunately just hasn't put in the effort yet for it which is the main issue. But it is completely possible, first with balance I would say just focus on conclave specific mods and let people use what they like (Weapons and Frames). After that through testing and statistics they can then balance the mods or weapons/frames as necessary. When it comes to the movement I say leave it as is you could look it to something similar to Titanfall or any other arena shooter where movement is off the charts but it's not impossible to hit a shot, you would just have to heavily read your opponents movements and corner them into moving where you want them to go. Then of course a skill based match making would help tremendously especially for players who might not have a big arsenal of weapons or frames. And banning cheaters of course. I believe if enough people voice their opinions on the matter it will make DE notice, it just seems that players as well as DE at the moment have just accepted PvP is a bad aspect of the game right now and that's it. 

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

Well it was a dead game mode even when I still played before melee 3.0 dropped and I quit cold turkey. That said I see one way to save it, FIXED LOADOUTS! Only allow preset all mostly balanced weapon loadouts mods and all included and get rid of the ability to mod however the player sees fit. Doing so would prevent the players who do nothing but PvP from going ham on newbies with their upgraded stuff that the new players can only earn by beating the established conclave veterans in the first place. And I guess them trying to balance it a little more now and then wouldn't hurt but hardly anyone plays it so I doubt they would put any funds towards fixing it. That's my 2 cents on the matter