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Why is Warframe listed as a FTP game ?


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6 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

How did you get the extra weapon slot needed to complete sorties? Or do you just ignore sorties that require a weapon you don't have?

I do the sorties I want to run that involve the equipment I like to use. I've played long enough to know what weapons I like to play with and forced weapon modifiers aren't really content I like to play. I also don't do spy or Ambulas sorties either because it's just not content I want to play. Having extra slots is a convenience but not a requirement to access sorties. I am in no way locked out of content without paying money. 

Edited by TheAvidoZ
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1 minute ago, MqToasty said:

Please read the Wikipedia article.  A "Glorified Demo" (aka. "Shareware") IS a type of "free to play".  Specifically, Warframe has a "Freemium" business model, which is another subtype of "Free to Play".

That seems like a semantic difference, not a logical difference. Like, where is the difference between being required to buy an expansion pack to keep playing vs having to buy a time card to keep playing? Either way, you are done playing until you pay in the money, so I don't see why one would be considered F2P and the other not.

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1 minute ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

That seems like a semantic difference, not a logical difference. Like, where is the difference between being required to buy an expansion pack to keep playing vs having to buy a time card to keep playing? Either way, you are done playing until you pay in the money, so I don't see why one would be considered F2P and the other not.

Was the base game free?  If so, then it is F2P by definition, even if you had to pay for the expansion.  If the base game was not free, then it is not F2P.  That's it.  F2P merely means you were not required to pay up front before you started playing.  This term has been around for a very long time, and everyone I know understands it the same way it is defined in Wikipedia.  That said, language does evolve and definitions do change, so if you want to convince the rest of the world to adopt your new definition, then...  Best of luck to you.

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4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

What you are advocating for is, no offense, kind of unrealistic imo. 

No quality game is going to be able to monetize on just cosmetics and nebulous "conveniences". I just don't see how that is even possible. 

If you want high production values, somebody, somewhere, has to be paying for more than just a few cosmetics and qol of life rushing. I just don't see how you get that money. 

This is why the better F2P models are all a lot like WF, because there really isn't a better way to do it if you want enough monetization for high production values. 

2 minutes ago, (NSW)IronElemental said:

Such games 'kind of exist' on mobile, instead of some player somewhere having to pay something, it's instead other companies paying the developers for those commercial breaks you get thrown in your face all the time.

I cant play those games. While i realize Warframe can be played for free, i happily sponsor those devs to let them make money off me. Much better. If that means you can play truely for free without looking at ads all day, more power to you!

In the end, someone, somewhere will always have to pay for a service. In this case, that service is keeping Warframe running online.

If it were completely free, ad-free and all, most likely the Canadian tax-payers would be the ones paying for my game. Since that's unfair on them, im happy to pay a bit every now and then for a game that has mostly been giving me fun for over 2 years already.

I don't have a problem with Warframe's business model (except for the effect on new players), I just don't think it should be considered F2P. If anything, I think that it should be lumped in with a lot of other games and be labled 'Pay to Complete', I.E. you can do most of the game for free, and there are no time cards or other mandatory pay mechanics, but with the caveat that you can't do everything in the game unless you (or someone else through the trading system) puts down some cash.

I myself have bought most of the PA packs and spent a fair bit on platinum myself. I have no problem paying money into a game that I enjoy. I just don't think it should be considered F2P unless all content can be completed without anyone paying a cent.

If Warframe started players with 8 weapon slots, I would consider it F2P, because then you would be able to complete every single quest, every sortie type, every node, and obtain every (obtainable) weapon without any platinum being used and without relying on unreliable mechanics or playing at specific times to get the slots you need. Alternatively, if Nighwave wasn't unreliable and every player, regardless of when they start playing, could have a guaranteed path to two extra weapon slots, then that would also fulfill my requirements for the F2P term.

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4 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

Was the base game free?  If so, then it is F2P by definition, even if you had to pay for the expansion.  If the base game was not free, then it is not F2P.  That's it.  F2P merely means you were not required to pay up front before you started playing.  This term has been around for a very long time, and everyone I know understands it the same way it is defined in Wikipedia.  That said, language does evolve and definitions do change, so if you want to convince the rest of the world to adopt your new definition, then...  Best of luck to you.

So is a game that uses a time card system but gives you your first 2 weeks free is a 'Free to Play' game? Because that seems a little bit oxymoronic. If the only requirement for F2P is that you don't have to pay money up front, then it's a worthless term.

Edited by -AoN-CanoLathra-
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3 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I don't have a problem with Warframe's business model (except for the effect on new players), I just don't think it should be considered F2P. If anything, I think that it should be lumped in with a lot of other games and be labled 'Pay to Complete', I.E. you can do most of the game for free, and there are no time cards or other mandatory pay mechanics, but with the caveat that you can't do everything in the game unless you (or someone else through the trading system) puts down some cash.

I myself have bought most of the PA packs and spent a fair bit on platinum myself. I have no problem paying money into a game that I enjoy. I just don't think it should be considered F2P unless all content can be completed without anyone paying a cent.

If Warframe started players with 8 weapon slots, I would consider it F2P, because then you would be able to complete every single quest, every sortie type, every node, and obtain every (obtainable) weapon without any platinum being used and without relying on unreliable mechanics or playing at specific times to get the slots you need. Alternatively, if Nighwave wasn't unreliable and every player, regardless of when they start playing, could have a guaranteed path to two extra weapon slots, then that would also fulfill my requirements for the F2P term.

You are aware that Nw gives free slots right?

Maybe years ago I would have agreed with this reasoning. But Nw gives weapon slots and warframe slots while the Dex weapons give you free weapon slots also. Every year.

So you don't have to buy those at all.

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3 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

You are aware that Nw gives free slots right?

Maybe years ago I would have agreed with this reasoning. But Nw gives weapon slots and warframe slots while the Dex weapons give you free weapon slots also. Every year.

So you don't have to buy those at all.

My argument is that Nightwave, in its current form, is unreliable. A new player might have to wait 6 months before they can get weapon slots from the Nightwave system. And the Dex weapons require you to play during a very specific time of the year. A new player might have joined just after that, or someone might not be able to play during that time.

For me, F2P means that everything you need to be able to complete the game needs to A: at least be possible to earn in-game and B: be regularly and reliably available to earn.

As long as Nightwave continues to drag on for months beyond when it should end, and events that give weapon slots are few and far between, I cannot call Warframe a F2P game. Fixing either of those issues would immediately change my stance on the game's F2P nature.

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no you don't have to have those weapon slots to finish the game or even complete it.  (and you can get them by other mean than nw , whether you call them "reliable" or not , if you don't want to trade , just have some patience and you'll get some from alert , events or other things)
you do you , it's still a F2P whether you call it like that or not.
And a very decent real F2P compared to many other fake F2P that have pay wall and such forcing player to pay real money to access things or make thing behind loot box.

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3 hours ago, Raj42 said:

That being said I am not that familiar with the nomenclature of gaming categories and maybe warframe "technically" qualifies in that category but then again this is a discussion. Thoughts?  

Warframe is actually one of the most honest free-to-play games on the market. You can go into every single mission, every single quest, every single seasonal event, as many times as you like, and unlock every single piece of stat-changing gear (cosmetic gear is a different story)... without spending a single penny. No spending money on some energy system, no spending money on revives, no premium pass to premium content. Nothing

Spending money in Warframe only gets you three things: cosmetic items, skip grinding for item drops, and inventory slots. That is it. The inventory part is an interesting take, because you can have everything in the game for free, just not all at once for free

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7 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

My argument is that Nightwave, in its current form, is unreliable. A new player might have to wait 6 months before they can get weapon slots from the Nightwave system. And the Dex weapons require you to play during a very specific time of the year. A new player might have joined just after that, or someone might not be able to play during that time.

For me, F2P means that everything you need to be able to complete the game needs to A: at least be possible to earn in-game and B: be regularly and reliably available to earn.

As long as Nightwave continues to drag on for months beyond when it should end, and events that give weapon slots are few and far between, I cannot call Warframe a F2P game. Fixing either of those issues would immediately change my stance on the game's F2P nature.

Yeah that's what I call bullocks.

If anything Nw is the most reliable way to get free slots.

For an entire year. Well, let's go with the ideal case of 6 months rather. For 6 months the players has the chance to do some easy tasks. Even without paying mich attention it's easy to level up. Completing the tasks intentionally will get you to those free slots even faster.

The only thing that might stop someone is the the 2 weeks pause. But even then the seasons are getting longer so those 2 weeks are a non issue since most of the time Nw is there.

Even if someone is limited. Say, because they don't have a Railjack, there's plenty of time and tasks to get those slots.

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10 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

My argument is that Nightwave, in its current form, is unreliable. A new player might have to wait 6 months before they can get weapon slots from the Nightwave system. And the Dex weapons require you to play during a very specific time of the year. A new player might have joined just after that, or someone might not be able to play during that time.

Welcome to a free to play lifestyle, they need cash they won't give that stuff like candy only once in a while.

Heck you don't even need slots to play the game, missing a sortie once in a while isn't a big deal

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3 hours ago, Raj42 said:

but we know that it indeed is not because there is no in game way to get platinum which basically makes 90% of the trading economy or rather warframe as a whole.

This is wrong. Trading is an in-game way to gain platinum.

You don't trade in an external website. You trade with other PLAYERS in in-game DOJO or RELAYS.

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1 hour ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I don't consider Warframe to be truly F2P, and I won't until Nightwave is constantly available and regularly reset so that new players always have a way to get warframe and weapon slots. Once that happens, then I will consider Warframe to be truly F2P.

Nightwave is constantly available. We have an intermission coming soon, if it haven't already started.

Is not hard at all, to farm couple of rare mods once you start, to get enough plat for a warframe slot. So there are ways for new players to get slots. Heck, even asking in global or in Q&A chat, can yield slots and a few forma from generous players who want newer players to have a smooth start (if you are new, please do not abuse this. We know the difference in between a new player, and a beggar)

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4 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Yeah that's what I call bullocks.

If anything Nw is the most reliable way to get free slots.

For an entire year. Well, let's go with the ideal case of 6 months rather. For 6 months the players has the chance to do some easy tasks. Even without paying mich attention it's easy to level up. Completing the tasks intentionally will get you to those free slots even faster.

The only thing that might stop someone is the the 2 weeks pause. But even then the seasons are getting longer so those 2 weeks are a non issue since most of the time Nw is there.

Even if someone is limited. Say, because they don't have a Railjack, there's plenty of time and tasks to get those slots.

I don't think any of us are gong to convince him. 

He has decided his own definition of F2P (what it means to him) and he has no interest in accepting the popular definition. He thinks the majority definition is wrong. In the end it ain't a big deal, it's just semantics. 

If he doesn't want to consider it F2P it's no skin off my nose. 

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8 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I don't think any of us are gong to convince him. 

He has decided his own definition of F2P (what it means to him) and he has no interest in accepting the popular definition. He thinks the majority definition is wrong. In the end it ain't a big deal, it's just semantics. 

If he doesn't want to consider it F2P it's no skin off my nose. 

I wouldn't be that mad honestly. But I saw way too many people saying that warframe is not ftp. And it kinda pisses me off because that's such blatant lie.

Thankfully it's very unlikely that new players see these kind of posts. But still. Come on! Warframe is pretty much the fairest ftp game currently. At least I don't know about any game that is this generous.

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Just now, JackHargreav said:

I wouldn't be that mad honestly. But I saw way too many people saying that warframe is not ftp. And it kinda pisses me off because that's such blatant lie.

Thankfully it's very unlikely that new players see these kind of posts. But still. Come on! Warframe is pretty much the fairest ftp game currently. At least I don't know about any game that is this generous.

I get what you are saying, totally! 

To his credit though, he sounds like a pretty big spender on WF. So if nothing else, his arguments are mostly semantic based, not a big problem he actually has with the game. He's just being technical, in his own way, I think. 

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4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I get what you are saying, totally! 

To his credit though, he sounds like a pretty big spender on WF. So if nothing else, his arguments are mostly semantic based, not a big problem he actually has with the game. He's just being technical, in his own way, I think. 

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

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7 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I get what you are saying, totally! 

To his credit though, he sounds like a pretty big spender on WF. So if nothing else, his arguments are mostly semantic based, not a big problem he actually has with the game. He's just being technical, in his own way, I think. 

Which is entirely pointless.  What value does it add?  There is no purpose in it other than the sake of being different.   It as stated before like saying "well, it really isn't hot sauce" because it was sitting at room temp because I defined "hot" that way.  Great...that is right when you choose to change the accepted definition...he can go away now.  

Edited by Chappie
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Oh actually I think WildStar might had a pretty fair ftp model.

I think. I can't remember well because it's been a long time ago since I played it and they switched too late? I believe that's why the game died off. Anyone who knows something more specific?

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WF alongside Path of Exile and the now dead Marvel Heroes are examples of true F2P games since all playable content is 100% free, as opposed to "F2P" games like Destiny 2 where you must pay in order to experience the new playable content of the game while also having vanity microtransactions.

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Well click-baited OP. But here, an answer for you.

Definition of a Free-to-Play game: Installation, registration and all game contents relevant to actual game play are free to access.

All Warframes, weapons, gear, companions, everything relevant to actually playing the game is free in Warframe, the description is accurate.

How Warframe monetises is Pay-to-Skip.

If you pay money into Warframe's premium currency you can get things without the time gating and grinding. Not everything, importantly, many things are not purchased with Platinum, although there's a caveat there of the fact that Platinum can be Traded too.

What this means is that if somebody were to grind a desirable item, like a particular mod, they can put it up for Trade and have a Platinum price for it. So the people who have already paid money into the game get the desirable item and the player gets Platinum for things they desire.

This is why things like Warframe Slots, Weapon Slots, Riven Slots and so on can be monetised without actually being pay-walls to the player. A few basic ones can be acquired by just playing, but if you actually try grinding you can actually trade Platinum and buy more of these slots.

So rather than earning Platinum in game directly, you simply rely on the large pool of players who have cycled Platinum into the system already. DE encourages this because it means that the people who do pay will drain their reserves faster and pay for more (a classic method for maintaining revenue streams in a F2P game), but as a consequence they have no real incentive to offer Platinum as an in-game reward.

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the only thing you actually HAVE to pay money for is tennogen and even then a slice of that profit is going to an artist not on the DE team

warframe is probably one of the very few games that's GENUINELY free to play

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It's a free to play game. I have around 1.6k hours into this game and I haven't spent a single penny, yet I have had about thousands of net platinum into and out of my account all because of free mods/sets/equipment etc, which I farmed. Warframe is free-to-play  with respect to money, not time.

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Thank you everyone for their replies. I honestly didn't expect this conversation to blow up so much but it is good to get the knowledge from people who have been playing for years now. Warframe is actually the first game that I have actually invested myself in and actually grinded to get stuff and like i said my gaming category nomenclature is not that strong but now i do realize what's what. It is indeed a beautiful and amazing game and I'll most probably be playing it for the foreseeable future. More importantly I understand now what FTP actually means.

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3 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

If Warframe started players with 8 weapon slots, I would consider it F2P, because then you would be able to complete every single quest, every sortie type, every node, and obtain every (obtainable) weapon without any platinum being used and without relying on unreliable mechanics or playing at specific times to get the slots you need.

How many slots do you start out with? It's gotta be at least 3 because you have 3 starting weapons, and I think it's probably 4 or 6. Starting platinum is enough to buy 1 warframe slot + 2 weapon slots or 4 weapon slots. I'm pretty sure 6 weapon slots is all you need (rifle, shotgun, sniper, bow, pistol, and melee for the Sortie restrictions). You say "without any platinum being used" but everyone starts with 50 platinum that cannot be traded away – it can only be spent. So spending that platinum doesn't push Warframe into a pay-to-play game, I reckon. You're not paying. You're not filling DE's coffers in any way.

And there are tons of ways to (slowly) get inventory slots without spending platinum. The promo code FREESWORD will give you a weapon slot (pretty sure that's still active). Every year the Dex rewards give you free slots. Most events give a weapon with a slot. Second Dream gives you a weapon with a slot, as does War Within (Sacrifice gives a warframe and a weapon slot, but I don't think you can sell those items, so the slots can't be taken advantage of). And Nightwave is pretty much always up, save for the couple weeks in between seasons and intermissions – very short breaks, of which we have had 5 (possibly fewer) since Nightwave began.

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