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Post-Devstream Railjack Feedback (Now Closed)


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Regarding the latest stream;

 

"The host's railjack decides too much"

Yes. And that's good. Why bother upgrading a ship when you can just have someone else run all the mods for it? Heck, why bother doing anything when you can just rely on someone else running any mods?

 

You guys want people to all create their own set of mod loadouts for railjack, and have them work together. Sounds good on paper. On paper.

But in reality, it'll result in a bunch of butt-hats running no mods at all (or non-upgraded ones) and expecting everyone else to run mods for them and carry them through the missions.

The pilot already has to carry everyone else with his maxed out ship. But now he'll need to carry everyone while actively being sabotaged by them.

 

Hell, these changes don't even make any sense. How on earth does the railjack suddenly gain speed or firepower just because some dude sitting in the back eating crayons got 1 or 2 mods up his butt? It makes no sense!

 

To put it extremely simple;

 

You guys want to force co-op in Railjack. But it just doesn't work. Railjack fundamentally - just like the rest of the game - is primarily a solo experience with optional co-op, not a co-op with optional solo.

You can't force co-op in railjack. It just. doesn't. work. Trying to make people work together without a pre-made squad is like explaining quantum physics to a rock. You can't.

You need to accept that railjack is just another solo game mode that can but doesn't need to be played together.

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How hard would it be to give a 3rd person perspective for the rail jack ace combat style?  Clearly let it be an option.

So I'm still relatively new to railjack and I tried to do the entry level missions and I got absolutely destroyed doing a solo run.  This is why I haven't really touched it because what's the point of going solo and you get wrecked before you get to do anything.  I have stuff still in the repair phase simply because I can't complete missions and get resources.  I'm just saying.

Matchmaking needs to be improved for railjack.  I enjoyed jumping into missions and just being a gunner, but uh....the well of options seems to be very dry or something is broken.  Cross play would help here, but at least give us a real idea of who's railjacking and who isn't. 

Also since the UI is being worked on, can you make it a bit clearer on the damage output on weapons?  I feel like the starter weapons aren't doing anything to these fighters in the beginning phases as i stated earlier.  What's the disconnect here?  I should be able to complete missions with basic weapons, at least starting out).  Also why can't we rip weapons off of enemy ships and slap them on ours?  That'd be interesting no?

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20 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

You guys want to force co-op in Railjack. But it just doesn't work. Railjack fundamentally - just like the rest of the game - is primarily a solo experience with optional co-op, not a co-op with optional solo.

If that's true, then it's a design failure. Railjack is intend to be a multiplayer mode, and it always has been.

Honestly, I also don't think that the personal mods makes a lot of sense, but that's a flavour/lore/logic problem, not a mechanical problem.

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Didn't catch the devstream due to time zone (also sucks to miss an Umbra Forma because I need to sleep), but from the abridged version (thanks Shy), I must say I dread the possibilities of how the equivalent modding system is going to change the meta for RJ.

I've started playing with 5 friends from the beginning, but grinding took the fun out of the game for them, and eventually only I remain. Tried to play with other clans, but after the third-in-a-row that was filled with racist & homophobic/transphobic speech to the brim, I gave up and went full solo even by playing a solo clan, since after 3k hours and even getting to MR30 sunken cost fallacy is a pain. And even after completely muting player audio, I still get from time to time people griefing over someone who messed a vault on a Spy Sortie, people complaining about ping despite the game having an option to set ping limit, or even someone taking two tries to hack a panel. If there is a block list limit, I'm gonna reach it soon.

I'm tired of trying to have fun in multiplayer, and now I only play on it sparingly. Maxed almost all weapons and systems on RJ, had a lot of fun on it, and since my internet connection isn't very good, had to do all that solo. If you're telling me that the new equivalent modding system for RJ where "everyone will be able to bring something to the table and make a difference" is meant for RJ to only be played on team because you won't have survivability or damage output to be able to solo the highest level content (be it due to poor internet connection, or just to evade a bad time), RJ will be dead for me.

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So with the "Harness" here to stay, Is there any chance that it can become a template to how we customize our recruited RJ NPC's too?

I am no programmer and it might take a lot of work, but it will be great if I can make a Converted Lich, Queenpin, Solarian, etc. obey avionic mods according to what I designed them to be. Similar to how our pets are modded, the usual left to right and top to bottom pattern of queuing up mods to carry out, can be applied to their corresponding Battle, Tactical and Integrated Avionics too.

I have no clue how the Command intrinsic will be or if a more simple crew system is already in the works so I am just throwing ideas here just to keep the ball rolling. An option to depend on and make our personal RJ crew a bit competitive vs. real players can be engaging or a necessity when no one is around to play with.

Edited by Alpha_Tango
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You haven't made anything better, you've made it worse. Forcing new players who already have trouble farming endo will kill off any possibility of them wanting to farm it for railjack on top of everything else. Leave the dirac alone. All those new slots that were maxed on the grid should not require forma or anything else to allow us to slot in maxed out railjack mods. Forma are also a huge killer on new players, this will hurt them as well if we have to use forma to max out a loadout slot. Wiping the intrinsics and having us start from zero does nothing but slow progression down. Let people earn intrinsic points now even if they are maxed out on all 4 intrinsic groups. At least then when the new system comes out we can prepare for the new one. How are we suppose to know how much wreckage we have made? Most of it gets trashed for dirac anyway, once you have the stuff you need there is no point to making more so people are going to lose out on the higher tiers. Even if we find out what qualifies for each tier you are going to force people to farm as much as they can and build it just to have it go to waste after the update anyway. What you should do instead is anyone who has built the railjack already should qualify for the tier 3 reward table. Period, don't hurt people with pointless farming. Taking away the pilots ability to shoot while sprinting is silly. What if we are trying to reverse in a hurry with a bunch of enemies in front of us. We just have to sit there and let them blast away at us. Even if we have crew helping it's less firepower we can bring to bear when we may need it most. Flux energy is useful, don't dump that onto the frames. Frames that don't have high energy pools are going to be trash for railjack if you force us to have build around that.

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Seconding what Averthane said about the Grid and Dirac:
Using the same modding system as the rest of the game is a step backwards. The Grid upgrades and how they interacted with Avionics was much more open to switching up builds and priorities as needed, and lacked so many of the irritating restrictions of the Forma and Polarity systems.

Likewise all of the commentary on Wreckage and Rewards: the Early Adopter tiering is needlessly fussy and has a frankly bizarre requirement.
Which players have actually built 30 items naturally, instead of grabbing the ones they wanted and leaving it at that?

Likewise (again) the commentary on Flux Energy: all that was required there is the same step taken with the other Railjack resources, make it an individualised pool instead of shared.
There was a lot of talk about Warframe's sense of flow: tying Flux Energy to Warframe energy actively impairs the flow between the two.

 

Addendum: I would also raise concerns for how (under the new system) crew players new to Railjack risk being dead weight or even detrimental, instead of (under the current system) an experienced Captain's parts and Avionics allow anyone to contribute.
 

Edited by CyberneticSusurrus
Addendum
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I was scrapping some Railjack armaments and notices that there is no indication about the different bonus variations of armaments. I have a Vidar Apoc III and Carcinox III both with 60% damage and some duplicates of Vidar Apoc III and Carcinox III both with around 30ish damage, but it doesn't show the percentage on the scrapping screen. Both appearing identical. Since I have the 60% both equipped, I decided to scrap the others on the Scrap Repaired screen.

So I scrapped them both and notices that I still have the Vidar Apoc III and Carcinox III both with 60% damage equipped on my Armaments screen and let out a sigh of relief. After I refilled my RJ supplies, I returned to the Armaments screen and my Vidar Apoc III and Carcinox III both with 60% damage is gone! So they are still equipped after I scrapped them, then they are gone after I changed screen.

The lack of information or exclusion of the equipped Railjack parts causes me to unintentionally scrap my Vidar Apoc III 60% and Vidar Carcinox III 60% that I invested my time and efforts to farm.

DE restored my sale, so naturally I scrapped my parts again. This time making sure not to scrap the leftmost part of the duplicates. Turns out, the rightmost one is the one I should've kept. So, FYI, the percentage goes from least to most, most likely, as there is no indication which is which

In summary:
1. Scrap Repaired screen should exclude equipped parts or at least show the bonuses that differentiate different duplicates. IT DOESN'T!
2. Game should notify if we are about to scrap equipped parts, like upgrading mods will unequip the mods in weapons or warframes without enough capacity. IT DOESN'T!
3. This leads to me -and most likely- other players to unintentionally scrap their RJ parts of choice.

P.S. The weapons in arsenal or non-railjack inventory are unique and shows which one is formaed or mastered or had catalyst, while the RJ armaments all appear the same without showing the percentage of the bonus.

Edited by Chainsaga
added P.S
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Many tennos are supporting size reduction of railjack, the subject is about gameplay improvements to solve problems of enemies being lost and hidden in some floors.

I do not support railjack reduction for aesthetic reasons and mainly because of capacity that old railjack has in future updates, but if that is not possible there are no problems, go and reduce the railjack with same problems.

Some gameplay problems in Old Railjack or New Railjack:

* Enemy artificial intelligence randomly damages points on the wall, floor and ceiling as there are no goals to hit.
* Artificial intelligence has no goals to hit and keep lost inside the railjack, so the player keep searching enemies losting time on floors with hide enemyes.
* Tactical teleport does not take warframe to damaged points or enemies, so the player keep searching enemies losting time on floors with hide enemyes.
* After update the size of railjack will still be very large and the tactical teleport will be inaccessible to new players, players will continue to jump between floors and it will still be tiring.

Solutions for the old or new railjack and related problems mentioned above:

* Place objective points for artificial intelligence to go attack such as cable panels or thematic computers etc, these thematic points already exist inside railjack, only one defense objective per point, this will be similar to interception/defense and all this will appear on tactical teleport map.
* Any enemy invasion should automatically show railjack map (only show the map, this is not tatical teleport skill, this is not enable cursor skill), this will only make the tenno strategy more faster.
* Also display on the tactical teleport map which points are under attack, it will be similar to the interception mode.
* Make the tactical teleport (internal tactical teleport only) more accessible(lvl 1 or 2 intrinsics) for novice players, this will make this skill really useful and mandatory.

6RnnMBc.png

More Sugestions:

* If you have one or more players working in the forge, 50% of the raids will go to the point of the forge. "Why??? Some more experienced squads use the strategy: 1 player to pilot; 1 cannon player; 1 player for archwing and artillery; 1 player for forge. The forger player supplies the gunnery system and is essential for the squad's overall efficiency, but the forge service is tedious, so some enemies attacking our forge will keep the zone more playable.

* Each damaged point can disable internal railjack avionics, some damaged avionics will make repairs a mandatory task

aFr8Et0.jpg

Make the railjack ship interaction mandatory on all missions:
Some missions the ship railjack seems useless for thematic, so the pilot can leave the ship behind and complete the mission with archwing. My suggestion is: the proximity of the railjack ship is mandatory to invade; open ship doors; invade enemy stations; destroy external objects.

Give all players more fun:
Some experienced squads have observed that fully equipped railjack ships will make fun and important tasks just for the pilot. For example, the experienced squad consists of: 1 player piloting; 1 player in the cannon; 1 player in artillery and archwing; 1 player in the forge. In this same squad, the activity of the forge is essential for the pilot and cannon making the whole gameplay more efficient but the working environment in the forge is very tedious. My suggestion is that the complete and experienced squadron has more enemy invasions: send more invasive enemy capsules; 4 enemy capsules, 2 of which are indestructible; more enemies within the railjack; if there is a player in the forge the enemies will attack him 50% more; basically more action and activities for all players who are bored.

More archwing functionality and functionality to fly any enemy ship:
The archwing can have its own invasive sling function, this ability consists of the warframe grabbing on unmanned ships in motion, for sentient or infested organic ships to be similar to the Rapopalyst Boss control, the thematic animation should be similar to the example below:

J2phsat.gif V2r8RHD.gif IP0JQfn.gif

Some criticisms about the railjack size reduction:

I like the size today, the railjack currently looks grand and imposing, a heap of iron and incredibly technological engineering, in detail the "giant finger" room, that looks like a special shed for very well designed archwings, the third floor above is really inaccessible in terms of gameplay but is ready for additional content in a future update, summarizing, the current railjack is incredible.

We have the tactical teleport system to speed up the movement between rooms, we will have new helper bots that can do tasks for us, we don't need less space we need more war time.

Removing automatic doors between the artillery room and the driver's room is notable and interesting, but the removed doors could also be used as strategic locks with actionable switchs in some future game upgrade/update.

About the NPCs? currently, the thematic npc controlling machines and computers within railjack is a lot of design charm, I suggest only a small improvement of AI (it is small and simple), the npcs should be defenseless animation pose in enemies invasions, that's all, there is no need to move on map or be removed from railjack, no NPCs feels this place more lonely and empty.

Some solutions to eliminate that feeling of emptiness in gameplay:

Keep current thematic npcs from railjack:

NPCs and events make the gameplay more immersive... just comparison between event "the new war" and "invasion missions" and you see how immersive the invasions are because there are many NPCs and various events in the tilesets happening in real time, this makes the game more fun even without a squad. Invasion missions feels like a real war, we have batleships sounds outdoor, tileset explosion in real time, and a lot of npcs runing.

We are removing a lot of themed npcs, so it stands to reason that, we don't want useless npcs, we don't want new useless npc bots and we really want "useful" npc bots.

Increase the "internal" resistance of the railjack:

if we have more resistance internally we have more enemies trying to damage and more time of war and action inside the railjack. This will be a more logical event as the new attack bots must really be useful and act on gameplay.

Redefine/reduce the resistance of "internal enemies" in railjack:

all enemies within railjack must have the same resistance or similar to that of history mode, it will be easier for us to kill crowds quickly. The enemy level needs to be rebalanced, we have few maps and the novice player cannot have difficulty climbing this.

 

HieeGW8.jpeg

Orphix Venom vs Eidolon Sentients Rewards and Popularity

Maybe eidolon will become unpopular after this update but this problem can be fixed by adding some reward to eidolon hunts.

Eidolon Shard's are useless rewards after maximizing the focus tree. My suggestion is to convert Eidolon Shards to Cash, Kuva or Forma(not diagram)

WOwWVqa.jpg

English is not my native language, sorry for any misunderstanding and thanks for reading this far.

Jahu: A brave and principled man about to make history. In truth, he was a Void himself. A outcast, a joke, a nothing.

Edited by Famecans
update
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I like the idea of individual tactical and battle mods for each player, as it allows us to specialize for certain crew roles. However, I do not think that integrated mods that affect the ship itself should be individual. One thing I don't think I saw mentioned on the workshop is how the new system would affect the passive abilities of Railjack components. For example, the "boost shield recharge while boosting" passive for engines or the "+50 shield for un-used avionics capacity" passive for reactors. Currently, most people seem to disregard most of these passives for the raw stats of the component. However, they also have a lot of potential for niche builds. I personally use a very specific min-maxed shield tanking build using both of the aforementioned passives to free up avionics space from the health/armor avionics in order to frontload on turret crit chance/damage. Formulating this build was incredibly fun and required a lot of trial and error to make things work.

Under the new changes, anyone other than myself on the pilot seat would absolutely break this build. I fear that I would be stuck piloting the entire time during missions, whereas previously I would occasionally switch with friends or even the occasional pub random. I'm also worried that tying polarities into the Railjack modding is going to stifle niche build like mine, because having to forma specific polarities would reduce the potential for trying new builds. Especially when swapping out what most people consider mandatory mods. Honestly, the integrated avionics system was fine how it is.

 

Edited by SignatureChewy
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In fact, it would not be necessary to change anything. What was presented on devstream is something totally unrealistic. Railjack has no problems. The only thing that railjack needed is new planets and maps and synergies between equipment from the same manufacturer.

Example ... if all the equipment is in the lavan category, invisibility would have a cooldown of 50% .... There are so many possibilities that I can give as examples, but the DE seems not to think deeply about the railjack itself.

The proposed changes as they stand will ruin railjack entirely. 

I'm sorry to speak in this way, but what we saw on devstream left me very perplexed by the changes presented.

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We really need a test cluster, as  a lot in this update, as it currently stands looks like it's gonna break the balance HORRIBLY. Once it hits live, it's too late to make drastic changes. So use what you have at your disposal. THE TEST CLUSTER!

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"You must sell salvage to join a railjack mission"

Can this "threshold" be removed so i don't have to worry about having "too much salvage" to have to sell before i can do a railjack mission please? 

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1) I think that finally getting Command Intrinsic is showing a solid positive path for Railjack. Now how it actually works in the future, is a different story altogether.

2) Will Converted Liches and others like them become actual companions that assist players in missions for its entire Duration? If so, will they bring their own customizable ship(s)? Will Converted Liches have their own thralls/crew to command while in missions as they assist players? I think being able to equip a Converted Liche for a limited/unlimited amount of missions. This would allow players to use all of their Converted Liches and have a purpose for Converting Liches outside of it being a minor aid.

3) I believe that Specters should be made into entities like Converted Liches instead of just being clones that go on rampages instead of staying near the player.

4) I believe that this is a good direction for Railjack and opens a path for older content and future content to interconnect with each other.

5) As this update increases Solo play survival and allows players to bring a full load-out of their own modded abilities for Railjack for Squads, balancing these two pieces should not be a problem.

6) I think that it would be cool to have Companions have their own Archwings along with Specters and Converted Liches.

7) Will we be getting a Kuva/Prime Clem anytime soon? ;)

8) Will the part where our Warframe destroys Hunhow while the Shadow Stalker is straggling us be an indicator that the Warframes are becoming Sentient? That would be cool if we are given an Item to Upgrade our Warframe to become Sentient like Excalibur Umbra. It would also be cool to grant extra ranks to existing items to make them 40 ranks like Kuva weapons. It would be nice to receive a Forma that fits any slot for an item besides Exillus and Aura ones.

9) The Command Intrinsic can be a huge game changer and allow increased AI compatibility with player skill. Such as being able to customize the AI parameters to that of the roles that will be given to Railjack Crew Members.

10) Now that we are going to get Corpus variants of the Kuva Liche, I think that getting a variant from each faction would be cool. I also believe that getting Crew Members from all factions would be an excellent addition as well. I would also suggest multiple squad links that allow more than four players to be on the same or different missions that compliment each other as they reach Objectives in a Time Limit. Like allowing players to jump straight into planetary combat from their Railjack and then back into Space Combat.

Edited by Fordrim
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please add a way for pilots to fire artillery without having to run to the back seat. It is not streamlined for Solo Plays if you say the Command intrinsic is for solo players

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I would personally like to see more in the way of syndicate involvement within railjack, whether that's in the form of dynamic encounters or just random additional side missions based on the host's syndicates. I.e. needing to evac a syndicate operative from an asteroid base alongside your primary mission.

I'd also like to see more of a syndicate influence over your railjack, whether that's being able to earn new railjack cosmetics via the syndicates or the design adapting based on the syndicates your ai crew belong to. I would also like to see some more crude militaristic/utilitarian cosmetics for the railjack, perhaps a Graxx skin for it.

Also maybe some decoration options for interiors similar to the orbiter? even if just pre-defined slots to prevent confusion or griefing.

Lastly I've seen that liches and other crew will be slottable as defenders among other roles, and possibly a dedicated defense spectre that roams your ship. I'd personally like more options for defenders in a setup similar to AC Odyssey's boats, you have your unique role-based crew members then a handful of generic expendable crew to help bolster your defenses. I think it would be great to have a small garrison of forces dedicated to repelling boarders that could also be customised and be present even when you have a full squad of players. You could have (as an example) a selection of syndicate forces and ranks to bolster them with stronger units. for example starting with a group of steel meridian lancers.

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one kind of feedback? scrap off the entire rank 10 gunnery. no one needed it now, now one who can aim will need it then once it drops. and with a downside at that? hell no, thank you. i'd straight up file a ticket support to have it taken away from my account if i would ever accidentally press the upgrade button to rank 10 in the state it will currently drop in. give gunnery rank 10 something that players will actually want. and with NO downside. 

There shouldn't be a downside to begin with to those intrisics. none should have. 

as for the energy for railjack ability, if there is a RELIABLE and CONSTANT way of generating it, then it will be okay.

Lastly : allow the pilot to use the Dome Charge ( AKA the very big gun that oneshot crewships! ). having to switch from pilot chair to heavy gun constantly is a very serious annoyance, that the rework won't change. it is still a pain in the butt.

Edited by mikakor
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On 2021-02-25 at 5:38 PM, (PSN)DISCOgnome83 said:

I jump onto the forum to see how a debate is going on how to improve a game I love and am hit with "Well, as a WOMAN" subsequently followed by "fundamental attribution error." I'm playing a video game I love and trying to suggest how to make it better with a community. What is this post even about? Why is it even important that you're a woman? I don't mean any offense but please help me understand why you think it's important to declare that you're a woman as opposed to a man?

There is no man in the wall.

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This update is just not that great, and the reason being is that energy right now being up to the Warframes energy is a terrible decision. 

I also personally do not like how we are forced to use endo to rank up our mods, but really since I had so much Dirac from playing Railjack in the past that was not an issue for me since that Dirac was converted to endo, but it really hurts players who are trying to get into Railjack. 

Right now I am just really upset with these changes, and hope they get better in the future. It just does not feel like the same Railjack experience that I had. Also not too long ago Archwing became amazing, and then it was nerfed again. 

I like a game that has a bit of consistency, and with this game I can say I feel at times like the game is all over the place. 

Right now the way it feels that energy needs to be fixed. It needs to go back to being forged, and not turning the warframe into a battery. 

Also why has the ordinance been lowered to 2 when I originally had 5. I just do not understand these changes, and it really feels more like a step backwards than a step forwards for Railjack. Had some good times in the past with my ship. I could be alone, or with a team. It was good times. Although now Railjack just has a very shallow feeling to it, and its even less fun now than it was in the past. 

I just hope this all gets balanced out since the only reason I really play this game is for Railjack. Now its just not the same experience, and feels more tedious. 

Edited by H3XW17CH
Adding information as to how I feel about railjack vs getting angry about it.
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When we are in modding screen, our warframe is now in a layer in front of the mods, thus blocking the mods. Can the warframe layer be moved back to the lowest as previously it was?

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  • [DE]Danielle changed the title to Post-Devstream Railjack Feedback (Now Closed)
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