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Post-Devstream Railjack Feedback (Now Closed)


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On 1/29/2021 at 12:57 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

If you heard on the Devstream, Scott would like as many Railjack thoughts as possible. This temporary Subforum was built out to collect as much constructive content as possible. Post your threads, discussions, videos, all in this handy place! 

There are some people who had their avionics maxed out and with more than 6 wreckage parts . How come we didn't get tier 3

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Well my railjack build got demolished. So much for playing outside the meta. Battle Forge is no longer an offensive skill ??? which leaves me with 2 worthless offensive skill choices. The removal of flux means I can't just take any Warframe I want anymore either. Some of the abilities on parts no longer make sense the ones that boost tenno should affect crewmembers. Not a fan of not being able to specialize crew,  wasted points predetermined really bother me to no end, and the result is not being able to choose who we want look wise but being forced to make choices by who has what points where. Many of the mods are now completely worthless with the changes.

Some of these changes are good, but there are a lot of real poorly thought out changes, like the flux changes and battle forge change.

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As someone who was concerned about the rework, I'm actually surprised how it turned out.

It isn't clear how the Plexus mods interact with other people on the team (two people with Predator maxed grants +100% Crit Chance?), except for the Aura mods (since they follow the same idea as frames). Oh, and thanks for allowing usage of Aura Forma on the Plexus right from the start.

On recruiting, nice touch them being related to the factions and that affecting the price for hiring. Just wish we could either hire them untrained and train them ourselves (set the base points however we want), or at least we could train the Liches this way.

While placing one Defender and one Mechanic when doing Pluto missions and getting major breaches every other minute, the Mechanic fixed all of them, without a hitch, and the Defender was only downed once (and to my surprise, the Mechanic actually helped him up). Now that I got a Mk III plate, things aren't so hectic, and the danger balance stayed about the same it was for the Grinneer side before. Still, the pilot AI needs heavy work. When placing it, it keeps flying aimlessly, not caring about where the ship is looking. It's impossible to shoot down a crewship this way. It needs to be able to recognize that there is someone one the Forward Artillery and keep the ship steady while looking at the nearest crewship (maybe even focus fire on the engines, if that's not asking too much). I won't be using crew to pilot anyway, but it's nice to have the option.

Even without a specific RJ resource grinding mission (like Defense), the new balance of resource gain against the costs are in a nice point. No more "5k Titanium to Valence Fusion, 15k Titanium to build something, less than 1k per mission" shenanigans, whose only counter was repeating the first node on Earth non-stop because one of the rewards was a 1.2k bundle, resulting in an average of 15k Titanium/hour in god knows how many repetitions. Still would be nice to have an option for a more solid income of RJ resources, specially now that the space parts of the missions have slimmed down and the RJ resource rewards were neutered.

Making the missions just copy part of the ground missions was an easy way out, so I won't bother discussing that point. At least, it's nice to have a defense tileset where we can use necramechs (just wish that map was smaller).

There is still ways to go, but that feels like a nice step forward. Good job team.

Oh yeah, I didn't forget about that promise of RJ support on open world missions, still waiting for it. Maybe for the third forgotten Orb Mother?

Oh, and, on a smaller note, what happened with those Tier 3 rewards for early adoption? It said absurd things like "You need to have built 30 Tier 3 components to qualify for it", when there were only a total of 24 different components counting all house variants, which not only was way less than the target but also goes against the whole idea of using the Valence fusion to better the components without heavy grinding on the RNG or extra costs of rebuilding things over and over. Felt really crappy to have maxed the whole RJ grid, built almost all weapon types plus components, an Valence fusioned them to max stats, and still not qualify by those standards.

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Bugs aside, I think this has gone in the right direction. The backdrops and environments for Neptune and Pluto are simply gorgeous. People might harp on about various things, but the artistic team did a really good job.

Mission pacing vs rewards feels slightly off compared to the rest of the game. You're doing a 10min (or higher) mission, for a 5min reward. Sure you have the side caches during railjack, but considering you can skip some of this it's still drawn out. Additionally, either someone missed a couple of 00's, or they forgot to touch the remainder drops for asterite - 5 for the optional bonus reward vs running earth to pick up 20-30x that (after the reduced drops, no booster).

Plexus options feels pretty decent. 2 forma can get you into a good spot (madurai and naramon), as will throwing on an aura forma for some extra capacity. You can get a decent solo/pilot build going that works well in groups. You can really specialize into guns if someone else is piloting. Engineer could use some additional love - right now all they have is the reduced revolite consumption and the aura.  Something like a mod lineup where using a tactical increases your damage, speed and armour by 25% for 60s, +50% damage increase when at max revolite, increase speed by 30% whilst onboard the railjack etc.

Warframe and energy linked is kinda ok. Its good with frames that have high energy, but it's pretty hard on frames with 300 energy. Regardless of how much energy you have, you're better off dropping an energy pad then running to the forge.

Edited by Kokomala
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I thought previously Particle Ram was made more transparent and the effect appearing much lesser around the edge of the screen.. why is it revert to covering much of the whole screen again???

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Is the Elite Crew perk going to include a priority system?

For example: Crew-mate #1's priorities are Defender first, Mechanic second, Gunner third.

Having crew that could actively adapt to the situation on our Railjacks would be awesome.

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This update has been a great reminder why I do not play railjack. It's not very fun when every single mission takes 20-40 minutes. And now most of them don't even take place in the railjack, but on on new tiles, that center around the warframes. Very cool, I hate it.

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43 minutes ago, Bathynomus said:

And now most of them don't even take place in the railjack, but on on new tiles, that center around the warframes.

That's DE for you, accomplishing the exact opposite of what was planned.

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There's so much going on with this patch, but holistically I think Railjack is healthier as a result. Bugs on bugs on bugs, though. Crew can't vote on missions, a few endless tunnels (even while solo), can enter positions with 'E' (my rebound use key) but can only exit with 'X' - when old bugs come back are they technically retro? :tongue: I'm loving the overall flow of the new Railjack missions. Everyone fluidly shifting from position to position, from space to ground and back, working individually on small tasks or collaborating on harder goals, all moving the party towards a common objective - it feels like what Railjack was always meant to be, like we're finally playing a polished-up version of the Tennocon reveal! :satisfied:

The mini-missions are all winners for me so far. They all seem doable solo but easier with some help, which is a good place for them to be since a squad will often need to manage multiple per run. Having the runs climax with a full party ground mission is a cool idea, but some are working better than others. Volatile is the best feeling of them, it's plenty tense and finishing off the sabotaged ship is satisfying. Exterminate is as bland as it's ever been, and could stand to be briefer and have some sort of follow-up in space. I think I need more time with Orphix Venom before I have a strong opinion one way or the other, but I liked it well enough during the event and I like it well enough now, though endless missions like it should probably be set up to have fewer pre-ground requirements so you're not already worn out before the real time sink starts. Defense feels terrible here and should be replaced entirely - it kills the momentum of the mission, taking the player from weaving through a frenetic hailstorm of energy blasts and torpedoes into standing stationary before a sluggish trickle of crewmen and robots, and the mission end is clumsy and weird for a game mode based around smooth transitions between multiple types of gameplay.

There's a lot of rough edges with the hired crew right now, but just having some autonomous help is a big QoL improvement. All the roles/traits need a little more personality and utility, though - tactical maneuvers from your pilots, ordnance use from your gunners, forge use from your engineers, something comparable to frame powers from your defenders. And some AI improvements wouldn't go unnoticed :tongue: Just today I watched my defender ignore a boarding party for a full thirty seconds before emptying their Prisma Grakata into absolutely nothing and then getting downed. And of course let me re-dress, re-train and possibly re-arm my liches - I have huge, stupid plans for my Railjack party :laugh:

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I am thinking its a click thing, it would seem that at times players click at the same time to leave or do something and we click at the same time. I am guessing it is because we are all trying to do the same thing at the same time. well that is when i see things going wrong and it is because I rocked up at the same time as another player and we clicked at the same time and i get left behind, which is ok i just wait until others all leave and then finish the mission. Not sure how that can be worked over tho or if it is a problem??

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What a POS!  You were supposed to make Railjack single player capable.  It's not!  

 

Play the game and figure it out.  If I have a crew, I have to pilot to keep the mission on track.  That means no crewship gun!  I don't need crew to pilot, I need crew to man the guns, fire the crewship gun, repel boarders, and repair the ship.  On the first play through, this S#&$ should happen and I shouldn't have to manage the crew during the mission.

 

What a cluster!

 

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Could you please remove the delay before we can shoot when going into necramech guard mode? That delay wasn't there before this update.

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I dont see the point of having exterminate or defense missions inside Capital ship, when you have to complete primary objective first

Its easier to pick non railjack variants of those missions and you still have same tileset, kinda pointless to start Railjack, destroy something and then having primary mission, seem like forced increase of Railjack usage

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scenario: For my railjack loadout, I've got Blackout Pulse, Tether, and Seeker Volley. I'm piloting my railjack in a public mission. A pug joins in, gets on guns and activates Particle Ram??????????????? Thanks for wasting the energy pug who is not piloting the ship. I never liked or used particle ram. Not cool pug. Not cool. Sure, pugs have always liked to use up munitions and energy in railjack missions. I've just not played a railjack mission in a long while. I used to have Plenty of materials for railjack missions.

I think some railjack abilities should be tied to the chair a user is in, like the Forward Artillery is tied to the front turret control chair, particle ram should be tied to the pilot chair.

I guess I'll use solo mode more.    

....Wait! What? (just realized) railjack energy is now tied to warframe????? uhg. Also an observation: I used Volt Prime with 880 energy, and railjack launches without full energy? (135/880) I'm trying things in earth free roam. Energy for railjack is still in the Forge and it's description "replenishes a Warframe's energy". /warilylookbackandforth

 

I do like the new railjack layout. Trimmed the extra space is fine. Good on ya for the tactical map not being partially off screen anymore.

After re-spec the railjack, went from 10-10-10-10-0 to 9-10-10-10-9 and farming the 512 intrinsics to make Tactical rank 10 again.

 

Configure railjack menu in dry dock, upgrades, mods... Sort by drain = Alphabetical (name). Polarity is working fine. Name sorting is working fine. Rank sorting.... what is that result? not ranked sorted. Same when using plexus menu on orbiter.

Edited by Floham
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I think you guys forgot to lower the heat accretion of new railjack weapons. They are now 50, 60, 80 etc just like the older railjack weapons back when railjack was first introduced.

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Having played a bit more I think there's good stuff in Corpus RJ but also some stuff that should be looked at again and possibly revised.

The Good:

  • Really beautiful maps! I'm the kind of player that will spend 10-15 mins flying around collecting resources and generally just enjoying flying a spaceship so thank you for the effort in making the maps look so great!
  • The new mission types are a good variation of things we already have and they are enjoyable, more please.
  • The immersion that comes with Corpus ship commanders giving orders is cool as is your crew having little things they say as well.
  • The ice mines and freighters are fun as well
  • I think the changes overall are much more friendly for a new player. I started playing Warframe last year and while I found RJ fun I would have struggled a lot to even get a foot in the door and improve my ship if I didn't have a good guild.

The Issues:

  • One thing that makes the Grineer missions better is that the RJ portion of the mission actually matters. You destroy X amount of fighters and X amount of crewships and that opens up your path to get to your main objective. This isn't the case for Corpus missions as there's infinite spawns but killing these enemies doesn't affect the mission either way, this then makes me wonder what the point is especially if the mission you're jumping into is just going to be a normal defence mission? I think you have a great framework with the Grineer missions and can make the Corpus ones simillar in terms of the way they play out. The RJ portion of the mission absolutely must matter, all it needs to be is kill X amount of crewships/fighters to open the path to the main objective - it's a very small thing but it makes a big difference to the actual feel of the missions.
  • I'm in two minds about the energy change but I err on the side of the ship having it's own energy was better, I also feel as though things have become a whole lot easier with the damage changes. Playing with a couple of my guildies with a fully stripped back RJ in some of the Corpus missions we didn't need to touch the side guns or use the Omni to repair anything.  I think some of the changes in this area actually promote less need for teamplay though I guess this is fine if you're a solo player.
  • Having crew members is cool but I do question the AI at times, like why does the engineer not use the forge? Or why can't I command them to use it? I might be missing something in the tactical menu here.
  • Very new player friendly changes (which is good!) but I do wonder if certain things could've been scaled so higher level nodes continue to act as a gear-check and challenge of sorts. Before the update I had to play Saturn nodes very carefully as I was still in the process of improving my RJ gear but now I just burn through them with ease and I don't even need to use abilities.

Some changes/additions

  • I think core Warframe Defence missions were the wrong mission type to go with. I think Sabotage or Rescue would have worked better. I think for something like defence to make sense the defence portion of the mission needs to take place in your RJ e.g. Corpus have stolen a freighter carrying supplies to a colony in need, you would first need to get rid of some small amount of fighters, enter the ship to save it's captain/crew and the supplies, then do the defence mission using your RJ to protect the freighter from waves of enemies.
  • We do need also need at least 3-4 nodes which are just a basic mission where you fight a select group of enmies with no ground mission or if it has to have sub-missions make them pure RJ focused. I believe Gian Point and a few others were missions like these.
  • I think you can do a lot more with the ice mines if you take some of the optional depth the vaults on Deimos have. Having some more depth to them will give players who want to play longer the option to and those who don't can just do the normal smash and grab portion then exit. I don't know if there's plans on introducing a grineer equivalent e.g those asteroids with machinery on them in the Saturn maps.
  • I think it would be cool if we could resuce the miners in these places, similar to how we can rescue Solaris members from the Corpus ships in the normal maps. The rewards don't have to be Solaris standing but you could get e.g. Miner ID codes/Records and once you have enough you can use those to summon a miniboss (Corpus Mine Overseer) sort of like you do in some Fortuna missions, kill him/her drop a key that allow Cephalon Cy to hack some Corpus payment system that rewards you with 100k credits.
  • Lastly, I don't know if you have plans to integrate RJ/Archwing more but some missions might have the scope to include Archwing portions especially if they're part of further optional objectives like the point I made above about Ice Mines etc having more depth like the Deimos vaults.

Overall I think this is a positive step in the right direction but naturally with any change there can be somethings that need adjusting 😀

Edited by Almxce
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All the Grineer Proxima nodes are just Skirmish? Hopefully that will change at some point?

Also I'm almost done with Venus Proxima and there are no Corpus Skirmish nodes. I think a nice little Corpus Skirmish in Venus Proxima would be a good idea.

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1) There should be an option at Ticker to allow us to customize our Contracts, instead of only able to access it in Drydock.

2) Can we see the whole body view of our crew like we did with our warframe when customizing them? How can we tell if it's nice fashionframe if we can only see part by part n not as a whole?

Edited by kyori
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Where to begin
The orfix Venom missions, the pods drop WAY too frequently, I've run into 2 runs now where we either failed or got to 99% because they dropped one after the other and since the travel time in these "new" corpus tile sets are so massive and blocky getting from one to the other has proven incredibly difficult.

The constant connection issues, being unable to even press escape after a match freezes with a host or one of the 10,000 other reasons why this game locks up.  So that bug returned, RJ was fine before you added all of this now I guess it's back to the drawing board for you guys huh?  

Let's see... the whole "the RJ is a big taxi" is now official with the addition of "sub missions within the RJ on foot" if I wanted to do normal Warframe stuff I would just do that, when I want to do more space based stuff I do RJ, I'll never understand this decision because now you've nullified the purpose of the RJ entirely so that needs to change otherwise why bother?  it's just another way to fail a mission at this point, let alone all of the many returning bugs and connection problems.

These are just a few of the problems that I've just witnessed but honestly there are so many more, DE you guys really need to start using that test cluster that's totally a thing, right?

Edited by Hawk1911
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AI crew engineer is able to use forge or replenish dome charges.

AI crew pilot unable to shoot grineer radiator in grineer nodes. 

Are those bugs or haven't program yet?

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23 hours ago, Myscho said:

I dont see the point of having exterminate or defense missions inside Capital ship, when you have to complete primary objective first

Its easier to pick non railjack variants of those missions and you still have same tileset, kinda pointless to start Railjack, destroy something and then having primary mission, seem like forced increase of Railjack usage

Exterminate feels natural, but the endless missions need to be removed from the primary objectives since there is no reason to ever go railjack just to play them. All one-off mission types though would be viable RJ main objectives.

DE needs to make a free roam map for each proxima that holds those endless missions along with either dynamic "incursions" like on PoE or a bounty board accessible in our RJ so we can alternate between endless ground missions and space combat like they talked about in the latest two dev streams. There are plenty enough PoIs that can be part of the maps as access points for the different endless missions and factions. We have everything from derelict tiles to galleons/capital ships to fit in the regular defense, survival, defection and so on endless missions. Excav is the only one that really takes place on the surface of a planet, but that could be solved too I guess, either by revamping those missions or making an access point in space to transition to the planet.

Whatever their choice is, they need to be removed as primary objectives.

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  • [DE]Danielle changed the title to Post-Devstream Railjack Feedback (Now Closed)
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