Incoming Kuva Nukor nerf

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

7 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Kuva Nukor from a Magnetic lich. Now has base Radiation, magnetic and microwave status. Then you build got viral/heat so you have mag/rad/viral/heat/microwave. 

I meant condition overload

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

I meant condition overload

It was changed shortly after melee 3.0 was released. It was capped at 3 statuses, which basically killed the mod. But player outcry made them remove the cap.

[Berzerkules]

Just now, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

I meant condition overload

Wiki for Condition Overload says a max of 16 status can be applied to a single enemy. Would be weird to list to max if they didn't apply. 

I think it was released with a cap with melee changes but it didn't last long

 

 

[Voltage]

9 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

And yet those three primaries are used nowhere close to as much as the Kuva Nukor. I'm pretty sure the big reason for K-Nunkor's overuse is it damages large groups of enemies passively, like the old Synoid Simulor.

That's just because performance doesn't always translate to usage, popularity does. People go for what Youtubers recommend or what is the next big thing on Reddit. If you really cared about performance or utility, you would see way more players rocking Balla daggers, Lavos instead of Saryn, Convectrix, Phantasma, Phage, and Synapse for beam weapons. Nobody uses Banshee Prime according to the Warframe2020 stats site, but Banshee Prime can easily wipe rooms of enemies and deal with tough targets while sustaining herself. She just isn't Inaros where you shut off the monitor, or Wukong where you cast a specter to play for you.

Beams have been heavily buffed over time, and the Kuva Nukor is top tier for being a secondary and having Kuva Weapon mechanics with elemental choice. The base stats really aren't anything crazy, and the Amprex, Atomos, and Gaze already chain to targets. What sets Kuva Nukor apart from other beam weapons is the lazy playstyle it brings to the table and the accessibility of the power. Players gravitate towards this as seen with Synoid Simulor, Tonkor, Catchmoon, Telos Boltace, Kuva Bramma, etc.

[16Bitman]

I'm just going to reiterate some points already made in the thread and add some of my own

 

Reasons why it wasn't nerfed after a whole year:

-High investment required compared to other weapons (Lich, good weapons you need to kill it, Requiem Mods, 5 Forma, increased affinity investment (rank 40) )

-It keeps the Lich System in use, without the Bramma, Nukor (and Ayanga for some), the rest of the weapons are just MR fodder for most people (or just not worth all the investment)

-Money! Newbies that follow "the meta" and want to rush to "the endgame" will invest a lot of money/plat to obtain 60% weapons.

 

How it could be nerfed without destroying it (Just pick 1 DE please, no Synoid Gammacor 2 please):

-Decrease the damage of the seccondary beams, it will still proc the status as often as it did before, making it still a great choice to combine with Condition Overload

-Decrease the range of the seccondary beams, right now it clears small rooms in a short time, this works on everything but steel path grineer

-Remove the microsave status effect from Condition Overload

 

Please do not:

-Decrease the status chance.

-Completely remove the seccondary beams.

-Lower the damage of the main beam.

[Jarriaga]

I called the nerf week 1:

It's very easy to predict what most people will flock to after content creators that push the "efficiency or bust" mentality share their "best build meta breaker ultra 2021" videos.

I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, but when it does, no one will have the right to act surprised.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

K. *dusts off the Zakti*

Point is, if the meta wasn't AoE, CO melee and most other secondaries wouldn't suck in comparison to that meta or more of them would be compatible to fit into it the Kuva Nukor would be less popular.

If we leave the Lex Prime out of the top 5 since we can probably all agree it's there because it's popular on low MR four out of the five weapons can hit multiple enemies: Kuva Nukor (beams connect to other enemies), Catchmoon (punchthrough), Tombfinger (splash on hit), Staticor (big boom). The only semi-outlier is the Pyrana Prime and even this one spreads quite substantially.

That's my take anyways. AoE is king and the Kuva Nukor simply supplements the CO melee meta the most/easiest.

[IIDMOII]

That data is meaningless. It's a breakdown of mastery completion. Mastery completion can occur passively without ever drawing the weapon, let alone firing a single round. It doesn't reflect usage, kills, etc. 

It sits in my arsenal in the off chance I get a "secondary only" modifier in sorties. That's how little of value I place on the secondary slot. Being equipped and mastered doesn't equate to usage.

I've always been underwhelmed by secondaries. It's surprising they don't buff the others up instead tbh.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Gotta love how they have a “This is not representative of any kind of tier list” disclaimer on the stats page. And yet that’s effectively how they use the stats to decide what gets nerfed.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

58 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Kuva Nukor from a Magnetic lich. Now has base Radiation, magnetic and microwave status. Then you build got viral/heat so you have mag/rad/viral/heat/microwave. 

Mod your Nukor with Corrosive/Heat instead and bring a Panzer Vulpaphyla with you. They're very reliable at spreading viral procs on enemies. They also have the added benefit of not dying.

[ReddyDisco]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Mod your Nukor with Corrosive/Heat instead and bring a Panzer Vulpaphyla with you. They're very reliable at spreading viral procs on enemies. They also have the added benefit of not dying.

nothing can beat the swiss army knife charm of smeeta, double or triple drops or steel essence/kuva, affinity to level weapons and frame, 200% crit chance.

magnetic nukor means you can have your cake and eat it too

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

5 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

nothing can beat the swiss army knife charm of smeeta, double or triple drops or steel essence/kuva, affinity to level weapons and frame, 200% crit chance.

magnetic nukor means you can have your cake and eat it too

Smeeta is really good, but those charm buffs are really inconsistent and unreliable. Meanwhile the Panzer can spread 10 stacks of viral on entire rooms of enemies with at least 90% uptime. Plus again, it is impossible for it to die.

As a long endurance runner, there is nothing worse than having to revive my Smeeta every few seconds because a level 500+ bombard breathed on it. 

[ReddyDisco]

1 minute ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Smeeta is really good, but those charm buffs are really inconsistent and unreliable. Meanwhile the Panzer can spread 10 stacks of viral on entire rooms of enemies with at least 90% uptime. Plus again, it is impossible for it to die.

As a long endurance runner, there is nothing worse than having to revive my Smeeta every few seconds because a level 500+ bombard breathed on it. 

its a good thing endurance is just one aspect of wf

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

Just now, ReddyDisco said:

its a good thing endurance is just one aspect of wf

Oh yeah. Undeniably for everyday low level missions, Smeeta is the go-to companion. But for players like me, the Panzer is easily the king. 

[Berzerkules]

2 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Mod your Nukor with Corrosive/Heat instead and bring a Panzer Vulpaphyla with you. They're very reliable at spreading viral procs on enemies. They also have the added benefit of not dying.

I can't stand the Panzer because is unmodded in it's sentinel form. I just run Djinn so I can keep enemy radar and fetch, I also stat stick augur mods on burst laser for better shield gating. I get way more utility out of Djinn and don't have to rely on a pet to proc status for me. Panzer just dies so much that you get constant spam in the middle of your screen that your pet has died and been revived. It's too much to handle.

If I want corrosive in my kit I normally run Cor/viral/heat on Scourge, Proboscis Cernos or Phage. Or any number of other utility primaries modded for corrosive and various status types that aren't on my mag/rad/viral/heat Nukor. 

 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

12 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I can't stand the Panzer because is unmodded in it's sentinel form. I just run Djinn so I can keep enemy radar and fetch, I also stat stick augur mods on burst laser for better shield gating. I get way more utility out of Djinn and don't have to rely on a pet to proc status for me. Panzer just dies so much that you get constant spam in the middle of your screen that your pet has died and been revived. It's too much to handle.

What? But you lose radar and fetch the moment Djinn dies, just like the Panzer. Only it has no utility while it's dead and triple the revive time. Also it can't take advantage of the vastly superior Kavat and Companion mods.

How the Hek is Djinn better than the Panzer? 

[Berzerkules]

1 hour ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

What? But you lose radar and fetch the moment Djinn dies, just like the Panzer. Only it has no utility while it's dead and triple the revive time. Also it can't take advantage of the vastly superior Link health/armor/shields mods.

How the Hek is Djinn better than the Panzer? 

Depending on the frame and subsume abilities you can keep Djinn alive the majority of the time. With good cc enemies aren't shooting at you or your sentinel. Companions have the tendency to run off and get them selves killed.

Even if djinn dies you still get the stat stick properties of better shield gating from augur mods on burst laser and passive reload from synth mods. In the off chance you die Djinn will also revive you. I prefer to proc status myself, get free revives, passive reload and have better shield gating over random viral procs and endless spam telling my the panzer has gotten killed in pet form yet again. 

I only run Corrosive Vs. Grineer. If I'm running Grineer endurance I'm taking viral/cor/heat Scourge, Phage or Proboscis Cernos. Sometimes i might take a corrosive build on Kuva Kohm, Kuva Ogris Amprex or whatever else I feel like taking. I can easily mod for like 10+ status types between primary/secondary. I don't need a pet to proc status for me. I already have a pile of utility primaries and my nukor. 

It's just personal preference though. If you like Panzer use it. I've just taken Djinn on every max lvl run I've ever done. I know what works for me. I've tested panzer extensively and was never pleased with the results. 

Also how much have you tested used Djinn? 

 

[vegetosayajin]

39 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Meanwhile the Panzer can spread 10 stacks of viral on entire rooms of enemies with at least 90% uptime. Plus again, it is impossible for it to die.

My favorite pet as well, I didn't unequip it from the moment I got it months ago when deimos came out.
That said, it's slow to spread the viral procs compared to a proc nukor build, it's only viral, as someone above said you can have 4 from the get go(+the microwave effect that also counts) on a whole room with the right build, not wait a couple of seconds for the cat to spread it.The main reason is that is slow tho.

[EdinaMonsoon]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Hyperion Rexx said:

Microwave is really funny when you see enemy body parts just balloon in size.  

Makes me laugh anyways 

i love using it on big enemies like tusk thumpers cus they just inflate and wobble like crazy lol

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

47 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

-snip-

I have used all of the companions and sentinels extensively and found my top three are Panzer > Smeeta > Helios. The rest are just not worth bothering with. (Besides niche circumstances).

If you have good enough CC to keep the fragile floating ballsack alive, then surely it's good enough to keep the Panzer from dying as well. 

At the very least mine doesn't die with my Celestial Stomp/Shooting Gallery Wukong and Breach Surge Nezha builds that I use in multiple hour Steel Path endurance runs. Vulpaphylas can also help prevent you from dying with the Martyr Symbiosis mod, which is significantly more useful with the 30s cooldown as opposed to 90s. 

But yeah, you do you. I just disagree emphatically about Djinn being useful.

[stormy505]

Feels kinda meh to nerf ranged weapons when melee is already so much better in the vast majority of situations. I feel like a ton of people use KN purely for buffing CO, showing again how much better melee is to range.

Although I don't know if they will nerf KN because it's been very good for a long time and it's one of the few things keeping the lich system alive.

I don't actually care that much, just don't touch my Kuva Kohm.

[Zeddypanda]

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

Lavos instead of Saryn

That's a hot take! I sold Sarynn because I didn't like her and have Lavos BPs laying around, so I'd like to hear more.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I have used all of the companions and sentinels extensively and found my top three are Panzer > Smeeta > Helios. The rest are just not worth bothering with. (Besides niche circumstances).

If you have good enough CC to keep the fragile floating ballsack alive, then surely it's good enough to keep the Panzer from dying as well. 

At the very least mine doesn't die with my Celestial Stomp/Shooting Gallery Wukong and Breach Surge Nezha builds that I use in multiple hour Steel Path endurance runs. Vulpaphylas can also help prevent you from dying with the Martyr Symbiosis mod, which is significantly more useful with the 30s cooldown as opposed to 90s. 

But yeah, you do you. I just disagree emphatically about Djinn being useful.

And dont forget that Panzer brings sustained healing, meaning you rarely ever need another source to keep your frame topped off.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, Zeddypanda said:

That's a hot take! I sold Sarynn because I didn't like her and have Lavos BPs laying around, so I'd like to hear more.

Well Saryn is still a good frame with plenty of uses. I was referring to nuking which can be achieved with Lavos.

[Yakhul]

Another one of those Doom and Gloom, the end is coming, type thread. Guess everyone here completely missed this:

Or perhaps you did not missed it, just chose to ignore it in order to create unneeded drama yet again because of DE history with the Catchmoon being nerfed for being used too much.