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The devstream asked for Railjack feedback for an upcoming revisit - here's what chaps my ass, and what I would like to see changed.


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**MOVEMENT**

 - Integrate the Cruising Speed avionic into the Piloting skill, and perhaps change it to turn off if recently damaged by an enemy instead of being in the radius of enemies - A lot of downtime in Railjack is spent after fighting fighters and crewships, slowboating to objectives, and the avionic can be turned off by turrets existing in the radius, hidden. This also allows for larger maps to be made, with access to more speed in mind.

 - Increase boost fuel - it is used for both dodging and quick movement, both of which are important in Railjack combat.

 

**COMBAT**

- Revert the Archwing projectile changes, or at the very least speed the projectiles up greatly, and perhaps buff some of the archguns' damage. The Mausolon is not only the best heavy weapon on the ground - it's the same in space, as it is hitscan and does decent (but fair!) damage, and should act as a model for other archguns to follow.

- Change Gunnery 10 intrinsic to allow use of both side guns at once. There seems to be a central spot for this in the Observatory area of the Railjack at the top-front, just unused. As it stands, being a gunner on a Railjack is just an objectively worse version of being the Pilot, and to get the full potential out of it you have to have two people dedicated to it, leaving only one person to do engineering, POI's, dealing with boarders, et cetera. If you could put out more DPS from one seat, it would give the Gunnery role a distinct role from Piloting, trading control over the ship for more damage.

 - Change the Void Cloak avionic to have a MUCH shorter duration, but only deplete that duration when moving or shooting. This would allow you to safely park the Railjack for missions that require the entire squad to enter a POI or otherwise leave the ship unattended.

 - Change Battle Avionics to act separately between pilot and gunnery seats. It's a bit annoying to be trying to use something like Munitions Vortex, but the gunner also uses it and cancels yours.

 - (Massively) increase the range and duration of Blackout Pulse battle avionic in order to better distinguish it from more damage-focused battle avionics.

 - Allow the boarding of POI's via the Archwing Cannon

 - An increase in enemy variety wouldn't hurt - It is very rare that munitons are wise to use in favor of abilities or just guns. Enemies like the Outrider, which are best handled by a missile to the face, are a welcome break in pace. You could even just chuck in basic Archwing enemies to give Archwing players more to do, as they will likely be difficult to hit in a Railjack.

 - Do not allow damage from the Ramming Speed Piloting intrinsic to trigger the on-hit effects of Battle Avionics - Attempting to cast something along the lines of Tether while boosting frequently fails as you immediately ram the tether, destroying it prematurely.

 

**OBJECTIVES**

 - In the future, I would ask that we get more POI objectives per mission, but with the caveat that they are designed to be completed by one player - realistically, either playing solo or in a squad, one player will be dedicated towards doing POI's while the Railjack does the ship to ship combat, and mission objectives such as the heat sinks on Pulse Turbines are just an annoyance to the player who has to run between the inside and outside to break/expose them.

 - More neat side objectives like the Orokin Derelicts, with extra burden (be it returning an object back to the ship, or just extra work) that increase the rewards gained in the mission (maybe more rolls on the loot tables for that mission?)

 

**UI/UTILITY**

 - Allow us to use the Arsenal between Railjack missions, and maybe even a foundry. Being able to use the Railjack as a proper hub would make the experience less of a case of "go out on an excursion and come back."

 - Allow us to see the remaining Dome charges before getting into the Forward Artillery - perhaps by monitor above it?

 - We need a proper voting system for sure. Coordinating who's ready in chat is a little bit silly.

 - Avionic loadouts, especially if mission diversity is increased and the Railjack needs to fill different roles.

 

 

**DREAMS**

 - I still remember Steve mentioning somewhere on twitter that the eventual goal for Railjack was to be able to use Railjacks as glorified loading screens for all mission types, for seamless missioning. I still want to be able to drop into the Vallis or board a normal on-ship Exterminate mission by parking my Railjack on/next to it and jumping in by whatever means are most reasonable (whether it be jumping out an airlock onto the ground on planets, or archwinging/slingshotting onto a Corpus Obelisk to initiate my mission). I feel like the seamless experience added by doing this alone would make Railjack 200% more worth it. It doesn't even have to do anything - I'd just be happy with less loading screens in favor of the awesome seamless experience that is Railjack spreading to cover more of the game.

 

This is what immediately comes to mind - if anybody can think of anything else, feel free to add it here!

 

EDIT: Apparently there is a new subforum for exactly this that I didn't see until just now. Mods, if you could move this thread there I would highly appreciate it <3

EDIT 2: Added some UI/Utility stuff that was pointed out below, as well as some other stuff that came to mind.

Edited by MasterControl
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59 minutes ago, MasterControl said:

- Revert the Archwing projectile changes, and perhaps buff some of the archguns. The Mausolon is not only the best heavy weapon on the ground - it's the same in space, as it is hitscan and does decent (but fair!) damage.

Great, now nobody uses the railjack anymore... Everybody now returns to "park your railjack in this asteroid and do everything in amnesha."

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1 minute ago, Aadi880 said:

Great, now nobody uses the railjack anymore... Everybody now returns to "park your railjack in this asteroid and do everything in amnesha."

The Railjack is the most effective way to dps due to it's massive AOE though. No single target damage will be able to replace that. Besides, if that's how people want to play, let them I guess.

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Just now, Rawbeard said:

only because of the changes you want reverted

Archguns, even if they were buffed, cannot compete with Tether or Munitions Vortex, let alone Railjack guns. Seriously, take a Mausolon, and go shoot Veil fighters with it. That's where I want other archguns to be - Imperator Vandal and others were butchered into uselessness.

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I really like your Gunnery 10 idea. It could cause some issues, like "two people want to use the Side Guns but one gets the "use both" seat, what happens?", but it should be a worthwhile trade.

That said, as long as the Pilot can single handedly solo all of the Spacecombat portion, the "Gunner" will never be a needed role.

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Great points, agreed with all.

10 hours ago, Aadi880 said:

Great, now nobody uses the railjack anymore... Everybody now returns to "park your railjack in this asteroid and do everything in amnesha."

Nothing wrong with being able to skip ship combat and do everything with Archwing because a.) having options for different playstyles is good and b.) DE said that they were going to remove regular Archwing missions and Railjack will become primary Archwing content anyway.

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14 hours ago, MasterControl said:

Archguns, even if they were buffed, cannot compete with Tether or Munitions Vortex

so you are telling me in the mode about Railjacks it is not Archguns that rule supreme? wow, that is... MINDBLOWING.

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"What chaps my ass" list:
https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/chaps+my+ass.html

Add 'standard' warframe functionality to railjack:

  • Mission vote when selecting new mission / drydock like normal warframe
  • Railjack appearance slots like normal warframe
  • Railjack loadout slots. At least for avionics, doesn't seem like weapons really need loadouts.
  • Allow access to in railjack warframe arsenal between missions, similar to normal warframe.
  • Player can force exit themselves to drydock to leave the group between missions, like leaving a group in normal warframe. It's currently unclear if you keep your stuff when force exiting between missions in railjack (since the rewards screen is when the railjack moves to a new location)

UI:
When selecting a mission after completing gian point, it seems to auto open to Earth?. It would be good it it opened the same location you are.
Could a dry dock icon could be added to bottom right of every location in the railjack map (while you are in a railjack) as a shortcut instead of needing to zoom out first?

In the scrap wreckage screen, you cannot check what the equipment actually does. For weapons you can press tab but cannot see a comparison to your current weapon or what special effect it has. For other equipment you cannot see any stats. This makes sorting though loot difficult.

When entering the Tungansta cannon seat, the ammo counter does not appear for a few seconds until AFTER you can fire.

  • As a related improvement, can you add some sort of indication the cannon is out of ammo before you enter it. Perhaps a hologram above the entry point that shows the current ammo count? And turns red when out of ammo.
  • I notice the same thing happens when entering the pilot seat, where the ammo and gun UI does not appear instantly. This is less annoying since you are usually stocked with missiles.

When using the cannon, the players warframe has a large chance of blocking your view of the target (your head seems to be centre of the screen). Need some way of seeing a target through yourself.

UI Tactical Menu:
The game appears to freeze when opening the Tactical Menu for the first time.
The tactical menu is awkward to use tactical avionics while seated in the pilot seat. You are using your mouse to steer, but if you want to access death blossom or cloak, you have to press L, wait for the UI to appear, then drag your mouse over to the correct icon and click it. During this time you are not able to steer or fire.

  • Maybe tacticals can be accessed on a "second tab" of battle avionics while in a pilot or gunner seat? like press 5 (operator) then press 1,2 or 3?

The map on the tactical menu for the railjack should try to stay in the same place each time you open it. Unless your display is too small somehow. So the icons to teleport are in the same place each time.
(Slight chapping) You can see railjack energy on the tactical menu, but not munitions or cannon ammo. It might be useful to put that information here (near the resources?) if this screen is meant to give you an overview of the railjack status.

Gameplay:
The weapon overheat time is rather punishing, and the game becomes less engaging when you can't target things, as your brain don't have to make any aiming or shooting decisions while you wait. Especially on a gunner seat.

  • Possibly adding a second weapon slot, and being able to swap weapons like normal warframe. There would be a swap time, but much less than the overheat time. Weapons keep cooling off when holstered. Could increase overheat time to compensate for swapping.

Grineer outriders reset the missile lock on when you mouse over different weak points. The lock should not reset when moving to a different component of the same target. How on earth would a gunner be able to lock onto an outrider when the pilot moving around.

The support powers from the tactical menu don't seem worth casting once you have other uses for flux energy. Maybe they should have a free cast on a cooldown? Using a power rapidly costs flux energy.

Railjack shields seem useless, Railjack hp self repairs like shields, hp has a higher amount, is manually repairable (when at critical) and has armour, so the true hp total is probably many many times your shield total.

  • Maybe if shields were segmented into left and right? or left / right / centre (including top) then they could regen individually and the pilot could try to adjust their facing to targets to spread damage around? The pilot should get little notches on their interface to show where the radar targets will hit when they shoot.
  • Possibly combine with the idea star wars squadrons has, where there is a gap between the ship and the shields, fighters can fly inside and damage / status the ship directly.
  • Then, you could have shields heavily resist fighter weapons (though they can get close and damage the hull directly) or specific fighter can have special weapons that bypass shields and add staus effects (like tactis orbs, which can be shot down or mines from outriders), shields are mainly used to protect yourself from crewship cannons, which do heavy damage (ignore armour?) if they strike your hull directly.
  • Not sure if this would actually play well, but just an idea to try and give shields a role other than "pick a shield array that gives a bonus when shields are down"

Ground enemies are needlessly durable while boarding enemy ships. It's sort of acceptable when they board you, since you MUST defeat them. But when boarding enemy craft it's better to ignore engaging with enemies when they are so durable.

When solo grinding, it seems more convenient to go to drydock to restock on ship munitions instead of crafting them at the forge. However it would be good if this process could be skipped somehow.

  • Possibly removing the forge cooldown between missions would help. As you should have enough resources on hand to restock it's just that you might need more than 4 crafts to do it. Battle forge helps though.
  • I think the ideal would be, finish mission, go to nav console to select new mission, teleport to the forge while it's loading and have unlimited forge uses until you actually move your railjack in the new mission.

Progression:

Avionics:
I don't think that active abilities should ever be sacrificed for passive stats. Because having a button to do a cool thing should never compete with a boring (but maybe optimal) +number increase.
So Battle Avionics and Tactical Avionics are now not avionics. They are Battle Systems and Tactical Systems and do not consume avionics. Adjust avionics caps to compensate.
Or you could just have the un-upgraded version of each tactical or battle avionic cost zero avionics, so you can at least slot something clickable.

Intrinsics:
Intrinsics that put gates on basic ship functions are annoying, and should be replaced by new effects. Now that I have all the key intrinsics it's fine, but when I started playing it was terrible not being able to use the slingshot, main cannon or forge the basic resources.
Archwing intrinsics should be removed or altered to be railjack specific, since archwing progression should not be directly linked with railjack (like how warframe progression is not directly linked)

Here's a list of the Intrinsics I think could be reworked, with ideas for replacements.

Tactical:
The central railjack console should have the tactical menu with it's spectating and support abilities available for all players. So if a player that did not level tactical gets stuck guarding the ship, they can remotely support their allies during a boarding action if nothing is happening on the railjack.

Tactical System
- No change, but all players can access the tactical menu from the railjacks unused central console.
Ability Kinesis
- As Tactical System. This just upgrades your remote tactical menu.
Command Link
- As Tactical System. This just upgrades your remote tactical menu.
Overseer
- As Tactical System. This just upgrades your remote tactical menu.
Archwing Tactical Blink
- Replaced with an ability to recall downed allies to your position and extend their bleedout time from the tactical menu.

Piloting:
Boost
- Any player can boost. This ability now reduces the normal boost cost by 50%. Because it might be nice to have a bigger boost meter when you want to travel vs using combat dodges.
Aeronaut
- Replaced with combat drift. When you drift, all railjack weapons start to cool down and also do more damage during the drift.

Gunnery:
Archwing Slingshot
- Skill renamed, this skill now allows locking on to targets to damage them. However anyone can use the slingshot for travel.
Artillery Command
- Skill renamed, this skill now has a similar effect to Phantom Eye, but for the cannon seat. You cannot fire everywhere, but it fades out parts of the ship and the player that could block your view of the target. Also shows the maximum angle the turret can turn.
Vengeful Archwing
- Replaced with. Sighting fighters or crewships (aim down sight for a second over a target) with the railjack weapons or archwing exposes weakpoints similar to banshee.
Combat Drift
- Moved to piloting. Replaced with Wave Motion Gun and moved to level 10.
  The cannon gains an alternative mode that uses three? five? ammo. A very wide penetrating cannon beam that causes an additional aoe explosion from every target hit that in turn will cause an aoe explosion on new targets hit.
  Wave motion gun is activated by fully charging the cannon, then if there is enough ammo instead of the gun auto firing it will begin to charge again. During the second charge the railjack will slow down and have it's turn rate reduced.

Engineering:
I've tried to add some sort of flux energy management system to the engineer tree. This takes the form of enhanced or alternative options for using a forge.
Flux Forge
- Generate a small amount of flux energy from the forge for zero resources (but still causing the forge to go on cooldown)
Ordnance Forge
- Enhanced munitions. Costing flux energy, the next x munitions shots are primed to do more damage and have additional range / aoe.
Dome Charge Forge
- Generate a temporary charge in the cannon from flux energy, expires if not used after 30 seconds, so is meant to be used in coordination with other players.
Vigilant Archwing
- Replaced with an ability related to revolite? Can pre-emptivly apply revolite to fortify the hull or preemptivly fix hull breaches? Can use the omni to freeze borders in omni gel?

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20 hours ago, MasterControl said:

Revert the Archwing projectile changes, and perhaps buff some of the archguns. The Mausolon is not only the best heavy weapon on the ground - it's the same in space, as it is hitscan and does decent (but fair!) damage.

I actually prefer projectile weapons in space.  Its classic, "space invaders" style. 

Hitscan doesn't deliver at all...you just don't get to see how your projectile hits the enemy.

 

Buff them all you like, but keep projectile mechanics.  

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50 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

I actually prefer projectile weapons in space.  Its classic, "space invaders" style. 

Hitscan doesn't deliver at all...you just don't get to see how your projectile hits the enemy.

 

Buff them all you like, but keep projectile mechanics.  

I'm okay with projectiles if the flight speed is dramatically increased. At the moment, you almost have to be on top of fighters to hit them with some weapons, or at the very least be leading the entire length of the screen.

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21 hours ago, MasterControl said:

**MOVEMENT**

 - Integrate the Cruising Speed avionic into the Piloting skill, and perhaps change it to turn off if recently damaged by an enemy instead of being in the radius of enemies - A lot of downtime in Railjack is spent after fighting fighters and crewships, slowboating to objectives, and the avionic can be turned off by turrets existing in the radius, hidden. This also allows for larger maps to be made, with access to more speed in mind.

 - Increase boost fuel - it is used for both dodging and quick movement, both of which are important in Railjack combat.

 

**COMBAT**

- Revert the Archwing projectile changes, and perhaps buff some of the archguns. The Mausolon is not only the best heavy weapon on the ground - it's the same in space, as it is hitscan and does decent (but fair!) damage.

- Change Gunnery 10 intrinsic to allow use of both side guns at once. There seems to be a central spot for this in the Observatory area of the Railjack at the top-front, just unused. As it stands, being a gunner on a Railjack is just an objectively worse version of being the Pilot. If you could put out more DPS from one seat, it would give the Gunnery role a distinct role from Piloting, trading control over the ship for more damage.

 - Change the Void Cloak avionic to have a MUCH shorter duration, but only deplete that duration when moving or shooting. This would allow you to safely park the Railjack for missions that require the entire squad to enter a POI or otherwise leave the ship unattended.

 - (Massively) increase the range and duration of Blackout Pulse battle avionic in order to better distinguish it from more damage-focused battle avionics.

 - Allow the boarding of POI's via the Archwing Cannon

 - An increase in enemy variety wouldn't hurt - It is very rare that munitons are wise to use in favor of abilities or just guns. Enemies like the Outrider, which are best handled by a missile to the face, are a welcome break in pace.

 

**OBJECTIVES**

 - In the future, I would ask that we get more POI objectives per mission, but with the caveat that they are designed to be completed by one player - realistically, either playing solo or in a squad, one player will be dedicated towards doing POI's while the Railjack does the ship to ship combat, and mission objectives such as the heat sinks on Pulse Turbines are just an annoyance to the player who has to run between the inside and outside to break/expose them.

 

This is what immediately comes to mind - if anybody can think of anything else, feel free to add it here!

 

EDIT: Apparently there is a new subforum for exactly this that I didn't see until just now. Mods, if you could move this thread there I would highly appreciate it <3

You make a lot of great points, however, I love how you have to throw in "(but fair)" because you know they'll just try and nerf anything you think is good or fun. 

So obvious, but also so frustrating things have gotten this bad.  

Nothing in this game infuriates me more than my Mausolon riven's .5 dispo. All .5 dispo rivens need to die.

I just used the Mausolon in a Steel Path mission. Thing does no damage. Too bad I can't even slot the riven, the one I spent way too much Kuva on. 

DE, before you worry about railjack stuff, fix your broken riven system please. 

Edited by parttimeparty
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On 2021-01-30 at 3:28 PM, MasterControl said:

- Change Gunnery 10 intrinsic to allow use of both side guns at once. There seems to be a central spot for this in the Observatory area of the Railjack at the top-front, just unused. As it stands, being a gunner on a Railjack is just an objectively worse version of being the Pilot. If you could put out more DPS from one seat, it would give the Gunnery role a distinct role from Piloting, trading control over the ship for more damage.

 

Im very big on this idea - The gunner being a worse gunner than the pilot is a very strange and iffy situation. Gunners should have greater dps than the pilot, since right now gunners roles are either a dome charge bot, or a "well I guess im doing nothing right now so ill get on a side gun I guess?"

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the only railjack content id love to see as i am sure ((ALOT)) of people would like to also see is the content scenes of railjack that we saw few or so years back when railjack was first unveiled. 

and that was being able to fly/use your railjack to fly to missions.

another thing that was going to happen, was being able to coordinate with railjack crewships and groundbased open world teams to work both together.. one team in the railjack helping those on the ground based missions. i.e plains of eidolon railjack missions etc.

 

I'd love to see these features added into the game, i would not be surprised if many others on these forums have also said about similar stuff like what i have. 

 

it was due to what i saw in the unveiling trailer/gameplay of railjack ((THAT)) made me want to build and ((PLAY!)) railjack in the first place. but so far none of us have been able to do that.

 

so please please please DE, please impliment those features that i have spoken about. 

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The thing is DE.. if you were to add the features that i and many other people have spoken of. like i did in my post and such as the top poster has. it would make many more people want to play railjack. and perhaps even those that have not so far done railjack. maybe even they would play it then.  

i realize that it probably is alot to do/work on implimenting and yeah im no game dev. so i have no idea how much work it takes to do such a task. but if you were to do so. think of the rewards and welcomed/positive feedback/comments you would get as a result..  

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