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Weapon Arcarnes.....Speed/Fire Rate or Damage


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Hello All

 

I asked about recently on Health Arcanes like grace and got ssome great info. I've been looking at Weapon Arcanes which are all over the place and covers them all....yet I really don't see (or hear about) them used much at all with maybe Avenger or Fury.....

I'm not in to all the numbers and math as some are who I appreciate but...are these worth it, do the job, pros & cons and the actual reasoning behind them....Because "On Paper and to Casual Eye", some of these look appealing BUT...I'm sure there is one...not all seems  as great or granted to be good as they appear....

Arcane Strike - On hit 15% Chance for 60% Attack Speed to Melee....ok this one I can see as Speed = More DPS and More Damage overall while providing more Crit and/or Status. On Paper this benefits ALL Melee Weapons and almost a no brainer correct?

Arcane Tempo - On Crit Hit, 15% for 90% Fire Rate for Shotguns.....Shotguns have ammo issues to begin with even with Ammo Mutation, small Mags and in short seems like this will chew thru ammo which is scarce....

Arcane Rage - On headshot, 15% chance for 180% Damage to Primary Weapons for 24 seconds....Just hitting the Head but with 15% Chance at adding 180% Damage to a primary doesn't sound bad...BUT...that's 15% chance at each Headshot and that needs to be alot of good shooting to get that 180% Dmage Buff...not sure on this one...

Arcane Precision - On Headshot, 100% Chance for 300% Damage to Pistols for 18 seconds...of all the Damage Arcanes, this is the one I'm most interested at....not 10%, not 15%, not 60% but 100% Chance at 300% Damage for Pistols....even with most whose Damage is mostly below Primary Weapons, an additional 300% at 18 seconds is no laughing matter...and just One Headshot, Not Headshot Kill...

Arcane Fury - On Crit Hit, 60% Chance for 180% Melee damage for 18 seconds....Hello Venka and Reaper Prime...for Melee Crit Builds "On Paper" it appears to be a huge plus....missing something especially since Crit Damage + Speed = Aweesome.....

Arcane Awakening - On reload, 60% Chance for 150% Damage to Pistols for 24 seconds.....To me this seems to be a "Sleeper Arcane" as you don't need a headshot, a Headshot Kil, get hit, have any Crit Damage, etc...simply reload a Pistol which for the most part has Magazines from 40 to 5 and have a 60% Chance at getting an additional 150% Damage that can help any of them...What's wrong with this picture?

Arcan Avenger - On Frame damaged, 21% Chance for 45% Crit Chance to All Weapons for 12 seconds....I probably see and hear about this one the most mainly I'm guessing because it's for Melee, Primary, Secondary...45% Crit Chance isn't huge but could easily put some over the 100% threshold. With your Frame taking any damage, the 21% Chance is nothing...at least "On Paper"

These are the ones I keep looking at but almost all Arcanes you seementioned, talked about revolves around The Frames themselves with a few exceptions. Just like to hear and see what others have done, used, tried, worked...or failed, pros and cons. Thank You very much...

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All of them except Avenger are additive with mods for their respective stats, which isn't a bad thing, it's just they're often more useful as a replacement for a mod that you can't fit in your build. Though some, like Strike and Precision are strong enough.

Avenger on the other hand, rather then a mod, it actually adds 45% onto your current crit chance, if you only had 1% crit, you would now have 46%.

Edited by rapt0rman
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Arcane Avenger : very strong arcane, 45% may not seem much but keep in mind this is bonus additive after and makes some non existence crit chance weapons crit

Arcane Strike: great attack speed increase, you can opt to not use berserker if you have this or use both and become a spinning bayblade of death  

Arcane Pistoleer: 102% ammo efficiency for weapons if a secondary weapon gets a kill, meaning automatic exergis pew pew pew

 

these are the ones i mostly use, the others are meh

Edited by ReddyDisco
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12 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

Arcane Avenger : very strong arcane, 45% may not seem much but keep in mind this is bonus additive after and makes some non existence crit chance weapons crit

How is this strong? I mean 45% is like 1/2 chance to crit. For non crit weapons you basically get ~45% to crit... so probably ~2x damage. I don't see it as "strong". Am I missing something?

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I just use Avenger. No real reason to hyper min-max for a specific weapon type unless you're doing a gimmick build or endurance runs.

And it's nice for the convenience alone of knowing your arcane is always relevant to however you're playing.

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39 minutes ago, quxier said:

How is this strong? I mean 45% is like 1/2 chance to crit. For non crit weapons you basically get ~45% to crit... so probably ~2x damage. I don't see it as "strong". Am I missing something?

In general, critting is always better then not critting, even for weapons not designed around crits. Mostly due to the 4x multiplier on critical headshots.

Also there are infamous examples like Kuva Nukor which has only 7% crit chance but 5x base crit damage.

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53 minutes ago, quxier said:

How is this strong? I mean 45% is like 1/2 chance to crit. For non crit weapons you basically get ~45% to crit... so probably ~2x damage. I don't see it as "strong". Am I missing something?

Uhuh, so it basically _doubles_ the number of crits? With weapons like the Kuva Nukor this is a ridiculous damage increase.

 

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1 hour ago, rapt0rman said:

Also there are infamous examples like Kuva Nukor which has only 7% crit chance but 5x base crit damage.

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

With weapons like the Kuva Nukor this is a ridiculous damage increase.

Ok, those kind of weapons (low crit chance + high crit damage) will like this.

However

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

Uhuh, so it basically _doubles_ the number of crits?

2 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

In general, critting is always better then not critting, even for weapons not designed around crits

Ok, it's nice to have little bit more damage but... isn't there any better arcane to put here?

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I remember Avenger used to be one people went for, but nowadays I only hear about Grace and Energize: apparently people don't care for arcanes unless it gives them more tankiness or lets them keep spamming powers. gun arcanes are getting left to the wayside, and I've noitcied the onces DE keep bringin out, particularly the Deimos ones, are kinda overcomplicated and require a lot of setup before they take effect. 

I think some new, simple gun arcanes are needed.

 

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1 hour ago, quxier said:

Ok, those kind of weapons (low crit chance + high crit damage) will like this.

However

Ok, it's nice to have little bit more damage but... isn't there any better arcane to put here?

I mean, a majority of the arcanes listed in the OP are "a little bit more damage". But none of them other then Avenger can drastically change a build.

TBH you are heavily underestimating the effects of adding nearly 50% crit chance on to nearly any weapon. both in terms of raw damage, and also as a springboard for things like slash procs (whether natural or through HM) and the Vigilante crit tier bonus.

Edited by rapt0rman
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6 hours ago, quxier said:

Ok, those kind of weapons (low crit chance + high crit damage) will like this.

However

Ok, it's nice to have little bit more damage but... isn't there any better arcane to put here?

its upto you, for dps increase avenger is great. you can use guardian, energize, grace.

for me the best offense is the best defense, who needs guardian when enemies are dead before then can touch you 

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I use fast melee build with Arcane Fury - more hits per second, more chances to crit, more chances to gain damage bonus thus crits hit heavier. Very easy to refresh, running non stop when in a fight.

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Arcane avenger is great but not on invisible frames and xaku, havent tested valkyr during her histeria.

Warframes exalted weapons can also benefit from arcanes but with some exceptions. Mesa shots in the middle of body so arcane acceleration is better than precison. Arcane strike doesnt affect khora whipclaw, atlas landslide and gara shattered lash. Arcane fury on atlas landslide is hard to proc cause it has 5% cc arcane avenger would be needed for it, with gara shattered lash arcane fury make kinda no sense cause it has 0% cc and 0% cd using aveneger can proc fury on her but u will get 0 benefit from criting

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7 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I remember Avenger used to be one people went for, but nowadays I only hear about Grace and Energize: apparently people don't care for arcanes unless it gives them more tankiness or lets them keep spamming powers. gun arcanes are getting left to the wayside, and I've noitcied the onces DE keep bringin out, particularly the Deimos ones, are kinda overcomplicated and require a lot of setup before they take effect. 

I think some new, simple gun arcanes are needed.

 

Weapon arcanes don't do much unless you're either not fully modded or using a sub-par weapon. Although, given a couple weapons have insane usage, it means for a lot of people there's 0 reason to even bother with dps arcanes. Weapons are already capable of instantly killing any enemy that isn't designed around phases/obscene damage reduction. There's no point in adding more damage when you're already overkilling enemies, this makes fire rate/attack speed pretty much the only useful bonus.

At that point you may as well go for better survivability, better energy, or just increased parkour. Weapon, Waframe, and Companion arcanes should have honestly been separated. 

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I always choose the speed/fire rate over the damage ones.
If your weapons are suited(don't have a small magazine and 2 hours reload time) imo it's always the better choice.
For melee ... co gives way more, br too, there is no reason for me to use a damage arcane at all.Attack speed is way more important.

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Avenger is nice because it benefits everything, and not by an insignificant amount either. A weapon with 100 base damage, 0% crit chance, and a normal 2x multiplier would see an average damage of, well, 45%, or 145 damage on average. The more crit multiplier or critical hit chance the weapon has, the bigger that average would become. If it takes your weapon into the next crit tier it becomes fantastic. 

You should consider Arcane Velocity if you are a fan of rapid fire pistols or play Mesa or Titania. Regulators and Dex Pixia both count as pistols and have infinite ammo; In Titania's case she has a really quick "reload" sequence but being able to dump your entire clip into an enemy is an insane amount of damage. Mesa becomes absolutely absurd. For everything else ammo mutation is your friend. Check 'em out. 

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4 hours ago, Hayrack said:

I use fast melee build with Arcane Fury - more hits per second, more chances to crit, more chances to gain damage bonus thus crits hit heavier. Very easy to refresh, running non stop when in a fight.

I just default to even faster melee build with Arcane Strike. I figure the 180% damage is inconsequential when you stack status and run CO. 

If the melee is so fast that you don't need Strike, I run it anyways but, I drop attack speed mods of the weapon and run smite mod or more crit damage. I figure you get more damage out of CD or faction damage than you would base damage. 

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Speed arcanes and Avenger (on frames that can use it, so not on Rhino and Rev for instance, where I'd just go strike+fury). On Titania, precision + the speed arcane for secondary. That is if you go for damage arcanes.

Also a sidenote. If you run with a smeeta you may aswell ditch Avenger since the freakin cat love to charm... uhm curse you into capped crit chance quite alot. Adarza on the other hand leads to some lovely sync with Avenger.

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6 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

It's like trying to melee underwater. IDK how people play w/o it.

I changed Primed fury for other mods (e.g. Primed Reach) and melees feels more enjoyable. With PF lots of weapons are just random animations that deals damage.

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17 minutes ago, quxier said:

I changed Primed fury for other mods (e.g. Primed Reach) and melees feels more enjoyable. With PF lots of weapons are just random animations that deals damage.

I'm a melee fiend. Just stack as much speed and range as you can on there. With the mobility this game has we're just walking blender killing everything that gets remotely close to us. 

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4 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I'm a melee fiend. Just stack as much speed and range as you can on there. With the mobility this game has we're just walking blender killing everything that gets remotely close to us. 

If you want everything to just die and body parts fall to the ground then sure. I want little more.

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