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Get out of Negative Platinum with Prime Access?


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Question

My platinum balance is unfortunately in the negatives. I know I can get it back to a normal value by buying platinum, but I have not seen confirmation of it working with Prime Access.

If it works, will I also get to keep the items included in the Prime Access bundle?

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Hello,

It's a bought platinum so it isn't that different from normal purchase, besides the additional things. Why wouldn't you keep the items, you paid for them. So I'm gonna say yes, you will have a normal balance and yes, you will be able to keep what you've bought. But you need to contact Support anyway. 

Hope it was helpful. Have fun and good luck, Tenno! 🐉

 

Edited by Tyranq
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If I attempt to purchase prime access, it redirects me to the steam page.

So if that is also the case for you, you have to contact the warframe support.

 

"If you wish to address your negative Platinum balance by purchasing Steam Packs, you will need to contact Warframe Support for assistance with this."

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010426932-Negative-Platinum-Balance-Help

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Well, yes, you'd need to let support know to about PA by Steam, since it's not added automatically to your account - but to your in-game mailbox. I had simmilar situation with my neg. plat balance and used Prime Access to resolve it.

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There are several ways, but the two easiest scenarios to explain this is:

  1. Someone somewhere buys real platinum with a real credit card.
  2. This person then uses the platinum to buy stuff from other players (rivens, sets, parts, arcanes, you name it...).
  3. After spending the plat, the person uses the consumer laws in his/her country to do a "rollback" of the transaction, getting their real money back.

or

  1. Someone buys platinum with a stolen credit card.
  2. This person then uses the platinum to buy stuff from other players (rivens, sets, parts, arcanes, you name it...).
  3. The credit card is then determined to be stolen and the transactions are "rolled back".
  4. The result of both of these scenarios is that there will be plat bought with the money (that has then been removed) left inside the Warframe economy, this is "black plat" or illegal plat, since it hasn't been paid for (anymore).
  5. That plat is then removed from economy (as it has to be, otherwise this could be used to pump the Warframe economy full of unpaid plat)
  6. So if you started the day with 0 plat, made a "super deal" and sold your NN riven for 1000 plat (to a plat scammer) and then bought a collection for 800 plat, you would have 200 plat left. But when DE then removes the illegal 1000 plat from the system, you will end up on -800 plat (you paid DE for the collection with plat that didn't actually "exist"). That's negative plat.

Of course plat scammers work in much more elaborate ways and trying to fudge their trail by selling/reselling between different accounts. But the general idea is the same, plat has gotten into the in-game economy that is later proven to be "unpaid", resulting in it being removed. It's like you sold something IRL and got paid with fake cash, you will lose that money (the fake bills are confiscated and no-one will give you real money instead).

There is currently no way to protect yourself 100%, except avoiding doing plat business. You might lessen your risks by avoiding "too good" deals and by checking up on buyer's account and activity, but even that isn't a surefire thing (especially since bad plat moves around, until it is removed). The only way to safeguard players would be to split plat into two currencies: "safe plat" (where a potential rollback has "timed out" and can't happen anymore) and "unsafe plat" (where a rollback could still happen). But this would mean that you, me and anyone would get "unsafe plat" whenever we buy plat legit, and that plat wouldn't turn into "safe plat" for weeks (or months), and this is dependent on national consumer laws where you live. 

Edited by Graavarg
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1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

There are several ways, but the two easiest scenarios to explain this is:

  1. Someone somewhere buys real platinum with a real credit card.
  2. This person then uses the platinum to buy stuff from other players (rivens, sets, parts, arcanes, you name it...).
  3. After spending the plat, the person uses the consumer laws in his/her country to do a "rollback" of the transaction, getting their real money back.

or

  1. Someone buys platinum with a stolen credit card.
  2. This person then uses the platinum to buy stuff from other players (rivens, sets, parts, arcanes, you name it...).
  3. The credit card is then determined to be stolen and the transactions are "rolled back".
  4. The result of both of these scenarios is that there will be plat bought with the money (that has then been removed) left inside the Warframe economy, this is "black plat" or illegal plat, since it hasn't been paid for (anymore).
  5. That plat is then removed from economy (as it has to be, otherwise this could be used to pump the Warframe economy full of unpaid plat)
  6. So if you started the day with 0 plat, made a "super deal" and sold your NN riven for 1000 plat (to a plat scammer) and then bought a collection for 800 plat, you would have 200 plat left. But when DE then removes the illegal 1000 plat from the system, you will end up on -800 plat (you paid DE for the collection with plat that didn't actually "exist"). That's negative plat.

Of course plat scammers work in much more elaborate ways and trying to fudge their trail by selling/reselling between different accounts. But the general idea is the same, plat has gotten into the in-game economy that is later proven to be "unpaid", resulting in it being removed. It's like you sold something IRL and got paid with fake cash, you will lose that money (the fake bills are confiscated and no-one will give you real money instead).

There is currently no way to protect yourself 100%, except avoiding doing plat business. You might lessen your risks by avoiding "too good" deals and by checking up on buyer's account and activity, but even that isn't a surefire thing (especially since bad plat moves around, until it is removed). The only way to safeguard players would be to split plat into two currencies: "safe plat" (where a potential rollback has "timed out" and can't happen anymore) and "unsafe plat" (where a rollback could still happen). But this would mean that you, me and anyone would get "unsafe plat" whenever we buy plat legit, and that plat wouldn't turn into "safe plat" for weeks (or months), and this is dependent on national consumer laws where you live. 

But It is unfair that other player shoud pay for problems caused by other people.

 

If DE wants that normal players that suffers from these unfair players, DE could make a system where the players with negative players can't make trades unless the other players add any amount of platinum, so the players with negative platinum can get positive platinum by selling the same thing he had sold and many other items.

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hace 4 horas, lhardy dijo:

But It is unfair that other player shoud pay for problems caused by other people

It's not unfair, in my 5 years playing warframe I've never heard of a player with negative platinum by mistake, everyone in one way or another deserves it.

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7 minutes ago, JoJoshuee_DesK said:

It's not unfair, in my 5 years playing warframe I've never heard of a player with negative platinum by mistake, everyone in one way or another deserves it.

I read many of those messages in the forum in the years I've been playing.

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12 hours ago, lhardy said:

But It is unfair that other player shoud pay for problems caused by other people.

There should be ways to make it easier for the victims to make a recovery from this.

1, If you spent the dirty plat on a Deluxe skin or something from their shop, you should be able to reverse that at least.

2. The item you sold in the first place for the dirty plat should be returned to you, though I imagine that becomes increasingly more difficult as time passes because the item may get traded to other players legitimately.

3. Give players a timeframe to make up the deficit in game.

 

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2 hours ago, Shifty_Shuffler said:

There should be ways to make it easier for the victims to make a recovery from this.

1, If you spent the dirty plat on a Deluxe skin or something from their shop, you should be able to reverse that at least.

2. The item you sold in the first place for the dirty plat should be returned to you, though I imagine that becomes increasingly more difficult as time passes because the item may get traded to other players legitimately.

3. Give players a timeframe to make up the deficit in game.

 

I think the same.

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11 hours ago, JoJoshuee_DesK said:

It's not unfair, in my 5 years playing warframe I've never heard of a player with negative platinum by mistake, everyone in one way or another deserves it.

So lets say you sell a riven and then several months later get your account locked for negative platinum. Would you say you deserved it and having to pay for something that someone else stole makes sense?

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hace 2 horas, Leyvonne dijo:

So lets say you sell a riven and then several months later get your account locked for negative platinum. Would you say you deserved it and having to pay for something that someone else stole makes sense?

If you sell a 2k riven... yes, you deserve it

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1 hour ago, JoJoshuee_DesK said:

If you sell a 2k riven... yes, you deserve it

I was asking about you personally, would you feel like you deserved to end up with negative plat and then having to pay for something someone else stole?

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it's not fair, but it's also happening on every other games out there.
that's why the hunter above can explain it so well. because this is a pretty common scam method that's happening everywhere.
i'm currently playing at least three other games that are made by bigger game companies which have similar negative balance system.

since people here love so much pointing out DE's incompetence... if the best game publishers and developers in the world are still struggling to solve this issue, what do you expect from DE? they can't even fix bugs.

getting scammed, or getting robbed, is never fair. this thing is practically the same. you never know if you're about to get pickpocketed or tricked.
some who have took precautions might underestimate the situation, but the truth is it can happen to anyone. and when it does it won't be fair.

it's a real sad situation with no real solution...

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9 hours ago, Shifty_Shuffler said:

There should be ways to make it easier for the victims to make a recovery from this.

1, If you spent the dirty plat on a Deluxe skin or something from their shop, you should be able to reverse that at least.

2. The item you sold in the first place for the dirty plat should be returned to you, though I imagine that becomes increasingly more difficult as time passes because the item may get traded to other players legitimately.

3. Give players a timeframe to make up the deficit in game.

 


I agree that DE could make things more consumer friendly when it comes to points 2, and points 3, but when it comes to point 1, I believe they already do that if asked. 

I have read many threads about negative platinum, and if it is a reversible purchase (a cosmetic, or a something like a gun bought from the market that hasn't been mastered at all yet, or a potato that hasn't been used, etc.) DE support usually will reverse those purchases no questions asked so you can try to get your balance back into positive, or at least get it closer so it isn't such an undue burden to buy a truckload of platinum. 

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12 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

it's not fair, but it's also happening on every other games out there.
that's why the hunter above can explain it so well. because this is a pretty common scam method that's happening everywhere.
i'm currently playing at least three other games that are made by bigger game companies which have similar negative balance system.

since people here love so much pointing out DE's incompetence... if the best game publishers and developers in the world are still struggling to solve this issue, what do you expect from DE? they can't even fix bugs.

getting scammed, or getting robbed, is never fair. this thing is practically the same. you never know if you're about to get pickpocketed or tricked.
some who have took precautions might underestimate the situation, but the truth is it can happen to anyone. and when it does it won't be fair.

it's a real sad situation with no real solution...

Agreed. It's sort of the same with real life. You buy something from someone off Craigslist or something, and then you sold it (or maybe you just got the item). Either way, you think you did your research, but you end up with stolen goods/money, without meaning to. When the police come and track things down, even if you end up being innocent and they don't see you as a responsible party, you are not going to be able to keep any of that illegitimate money/goods and there isn't going to be some person from the government coming up to your door and going "hey we are sorry you got cheated, bad stuff happens here is money". Nope, you got hosed and now you gotta deal with it, even if it wasn't your "fault". 

That's life. Sometimes, good people end up the recipient of stolen goods/money, and when it gets recovered, their only recourse is actually to try to track down the person responsible for giving them stolen goods/money and try to hit them in civil court. The government/companies don't compensate you when you get screwed by 3rd parties, it's just how life works. 

Of course I am over-simplifying a bit in terms of the money part as seizure laws can vary from state and country when it comes to whether actual money would be seized if you didn't know something you had was a stolen good, and had already sold it again to someone else, but the point is if you get screwed in a deal with a non-licensed business in real life, you have to sue the buggers who screwed you in the first place. No government or company is going to compensate you for being screwed. 

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48 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

it's not fair, but it's also happening on every other games out there.
that's why the hunter above can explain it so well. because this is a pretty common scam method that's happening everywhere.
i'm currently playing at least three other games that are made by bigger game companies which have similar negative balance system.

since people here love so much pointing out DE's incompetence... if the best game publishers and developers in the world are still struggling to solve this issue, what do you expect from DE? they can't even fix bugs.

getting scammed, or getting robbed, is never fair. this thing is practically the same. you never know if you're about to get pickpocketed or tricked.
some who have took precautions might underestimate the situation, but the truth is it can happen to anyone. and when it does it won't be fair.

it's a real sad situation with no real solution...

True, this is kinda common, but the solution is also somewhat simple... There was one game i played that had this, i don't remember which, and warframe already has the groundwork for this in place (there's already two types of plat, one tradeable, one not).
So the fix would be, a 30 days moratorium (that's how long most banks will allow for reversal in credit purchases) on recently bought plat. Plat under moratorium would not be useable for player to player trading, but still useable for market purchases. After 30 days you can trade it with others. Plat acquired from trading with players would be guaranteed to be clean, and thus under no restriction.
Hovering the plat count on the UI would show the breakdown between restricted and unrestricted plat.

Edited by ReaverKane
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1 hour ago, ReaverKane said:

True, this is kinda common, but the solution is also somewhat simple... There was one game i played that had this, i don't remember which, and warframe already has the groundwork for this in place (there's already two types of plat, one tradeable, one not).
So the fix would be, a 30 days moratorium (that's how long most banks will allow for reversal in credit purchases) on recently bought plat. Plat under moratorium would not be useable for player to player trading, but still useable for market purchases. After 30 days you can trade it with others. Plat acquired from trading with players would be guaranteed to be clean, and thus under no restriction.
Hovering the plat count on the UI would show the breakdown between restricted and unrestricted plat.

I mean, this is A solution... 

But it is also one where the negatives I think outweigh the positives. Sure, you ensure it is almost impossible for bad platinum to be traded around. 

But that 30 day moratorium would just straight KILL whales enthusiasm to buy plat to skip. I mean, WF basically has a Pay-2-Skip model, and making someone wait behind an arbitrary 30 day would be a solution to bad plat, but it might just kill the entire Warframe economy. 

I get you are saying they could still buy from the market, but how many whales are going to yank out their credit card for plat to go buy arcane energize sets and expensive rivens from players, if they have to wait at least 30 days before they can use that plat to make a purchase? I am sure that is a significant portion of DE's plat sales. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I mean, this is A solution... 

But it is also one where the negatives I think outweigh the positives. Sure, you ensure it is almost impossible for bad platinum to be traded around. 

But that 30 day moratorium would just straight KILL whales enthusiasm to buy plat to skip. I mean, WF basically has a Pay-2-Skip model, and making someone wait behind an arbitrary 30 day would be a solution to bad plat, but it might just kill the entire Warframe economy. 

I get you are saying they could still buy from the market, but how many whales are going to yank out their credit card for plat to go buy arcane energize sets and expensive rivens from players, if they have to wait at least 30 days before they can use that plat to make a purchase? I am sure that is a significant portion of DE's plat sales. 

Well, that's for them to analyse. I kinda doubt there's a lot of "whales" and people that pay to skip are that worried about arcanes and min-maxing, most its going to be cosmetics and quick unlocks. Players that go through all the min-maxing are doing it for reasons that make unlocking arcanes somewhat easy. And honestly a guy that wants a perfect build on his whatever frame probably is willing to run some time through whatever to get a few primes to buy the arcane.
Of course, that for this to really work, they'd need to end the plague that is the Riven Market.

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13 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

But that 30 day moratorium would just straight KILL whales enthusiasm to buy plat to skip. I mean, WF basically has a Pay-2-Skip model, and making someone wait behind an arbitrary 30 day would be a solution to bad plat, but it might just kill the entire Warframe economy. 

Not sure about the "whales", but otherwise I think you are completely correct.

Most of the purchases in Warframe are of the "sh*t, I need/want this NOW"-kind. As they should be, it is the "fairest economic model of them all" to let players decide themselves if they want to use their money for specific content (in one form or another), in the heat of the moment. Having to wait a month for your booster to kick in, or for your forma, or for Prime Access just will not work. And sure, of course we could all buy plat "in advance" but that just will not happen either, call it "the human condition"...

Blaming the developers (of Warframe or other games where the same problem pops up) is just dumb, since we are talking about legislation. Even if I could click a "I will never ask for my money back and yes I understand all the legal aspects"-box it wouldn't be valid, since neither a consumer nor a seller has the right to agree to disregard the law.

The one option open to all companies/sellers is to claim that the money cannot be returned since the goods that was bought for them is "already used" (goods generally has to be returned "unused" in order to claim your money back as per consumer legislation, you can't buy shoes, use them for a week and then return them). However, this has proven to be a bit tricky with regard to "digital goods", since the legal basis for "unused" is that the return should not result in economic damage to the seller (like getting a couple of used shoes back, which can't be sold for a "new shoes price" anymore). This has nothing specific to do with gaming, it is also an "interesting problem" regarding music and other media (if you buy an album, listen to it and want to return it, how can the seller show that taking that digital copy back results in "economic harm"?). And if the seller contest the rollback and the buyer contest the seller's decision you get drawn into a (legal) process, which will probably cost a lot more than the money involved (especially concerning it could happen in any country where you can play Warframe).

So it is really a "system" problem. And as always, that is the grey areas where scammers and other a-holes like to hang out...

Edited by Graavarg
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21 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

Not sure about the "whales", but otherwise I think you are completely correct.

Most of the purchases in Warframe are of the "sh*t, I need/want this NOW"-kind. As they should be, it is the "fairest economic model of them all" to let players decide themselves if they want to use their money for specific content (in one form or another), in the heat of the moment. Having to wait a month for your booster to kick in, or for your forma, or for Prime Access just will not work. And sure, of course we could all buy plat "in advance" but that just will not happen either, call it "the human condition"...

Actually the system he proposed was for the plat purchased to be useable in the market only for the first 30 days so you could have your prime access, boosters, forma etc it'll just prevent whales and people who want to pay to skip by buying for example a set of Arcane Energize or the latest prime cos they can't be bothered cracking relics and don't want to pay for it in the market.

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A trade restriction period on plat would indeed be helpful, but it wouldn't solve all of the issues. It would also have to apply to gifting items. Under the current rules if you buy something from the market with bad plat, and then consume it (forma, catalyst, booster, etc.), then that puts you in negative plat. This makes sense, but the problem is that it also applies to gifted items as well. And no matter what way DE could go on this, it's bad for them. If they continue as they are, then trolls can make burner accounts, gift a bunch of catalysts/reactors/slots/boosters to new players, and then get all of them banned. If DE changes this rule, they run the risk of players making burner accounts to gift themselves stuff with bad plat. Thus, Gifting must also fall under the trade restriction, so that only 'clean' plat can be used to gift items.

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3 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

A trade restriction period on plat would indeed be helpful, but it wouldn't solve all of the issues. It would also have to apply to gifting items. Under the current rules if you buy something from the market with bad plat, and then consume it (forma, catalyst, booster, etc.), then that puts you in negative plat. This makes sense, but the problem is that it also applies to gifted items as well. And no matter what way DE could go on this, it's bad for them. If they continue as they are, then trolls can make burner accounts, gift a bunch of catalysts/reactors/slots/boosters to new players, and then get all of them banned. If DE changes this rule, they run the risk of players making burner accounts to gift themselves stuff with bad plat. Thus, Gifting must also fall under the trade restriction, so that only 'clean' plat can be used to gift items.

I understand your issue and yes, some users a long time ago stated that they would intentionally create those sort of situations, this was mainly because the moaning on reddit and forums gave no results and they knew no one would side with them due to the kinds of trades they were involved, because of that they decided to gift users in hopes to get the accounts with a negative plat balance, this would lead the players onto the forums requesting help and a change, which would directly benefit the users doing unallowed trades.

The idea was to have a puppet that would complain in the forums instead of doing themselves.

However you are mistaken on 1 point, it's not a question of clean or dirty plat, but allowed trades and purchases, if you are found to have done an illecit trade with plat you bought, you risk the plat being removed, DE controls the premium currency just like any other company using premium currency, they can add and remove at will.

So disabling gifting if the plat isn't "clean" is impossible, because gifts themselves sometimes are part of other RMT trades happening outside the game and the plat involved may be removed at some point anyway.

If a 2 year old account is found to be doing RMT, all trades since the very start (2 years ago) will be manually inspected and then plat removed if they see fit, they may even remove actual bought plat if they suspect heavily it's RMT, in other words, they can decide regardless of what the account owner thinks

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