(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 I'm like 85% sure it was Mania that spawned in. But I need to explain the setup first. I'm in Lavos with 1,170 armor, 1,600 health, Arcane Grace and Arcane Guardian. SP alert, Stalker had just spawned in and I never dipped even to half health. I was face tanking SP enemies. By the time they'd take off a minor amount of health I'd be right back up, especially because I brought my Viz Predasite with the heals on it. I was having absolutely zero issues staying alive and well in a SP exterminate, in the middle of a pack of enemies at that. Again, I had just run Stalker's pockets for a Dread BP with no issues at all. Mania spawned into the pack, I saw the target icon show up on them, they charged me, I died in a single hit from full health with healing active. My shields were probably not up due to the whole "in the middle of a large pack of enemies." but I was being healed by more than one source of healing and my health was staying topped up. I was literally hitting the buttons to go into operator to hit the surrounding enemies with Lockdown and also see if Unairu's Sundering Dash works on Acolytes. Dead, instantly. See, I thought it was just choice of frame before. I'd be running in Ivara, or Protea or some other can't-really-take-too-many-direct-hits kind of frame, maybe not squishy, but just not a hardened target like Baruuk or Lavos or Chroma. Most of the Acolytes were no issue to take down, but I'd get straight blasted immediately by one every now and then in those less hardy frames. That honestly already felt really unbalanced. A CC ignoring, ability ignoring enemy that can teleport to you being able to one shot literally any frame already feels completely unbalanced because you're basically telling the player "You must be this tanky to ride this ride." But I'm in a frame that straight face tanks the hardest content in the game. And I got one-shot. You might as well just kill my frame at random and send me an inbox of whoever balanced this holding up their middle finger with their cheeks hanging out of their pants and a "screw you for trying to have a good time." grin on their face. This is totally not okay. There is no balance in something like this. They spawned in, instantly murdered me, and left. It takes longer to revive a teammate with Vazarin on than it took this Acolyte to blast through a very tanky frame's defenses. What Stalker and a room full of enemies couldn't accomplish with concentrated fire this enemy did in a single, extremely fast and probably impossible to dodge hit. EDIT: and that armor doesn't include the armor granted by Unairu, though I'm actually not sure if the armor granted by Unairu is affected by mods. Either way, it's just that much more EHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 That sounds more like misery to me, in my last mania encounter I just got ragdolled around like crazy but he didnt do that much damage. Misery on the other hand just deleted me for wanting to scan him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Mobility is rewarded. The devs have said this multiple times. Stop face tanking things then complaining when you die. Steel path doesn't need to be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Mobility is rewarded. The devs have said this multiple times. Stop face tanking things then complaining when you die. Steel path doesn't need to be nerfed. We making cookies? Cause I got a cookie cutter response right here. You obviously didn’t even bother to read. 1 hour ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said: Mania spawned into the pack, I saw the target icon show up on them, they charged me, I died in a single hit from full health with healing active. My shields were probably not up due to the whole "in the middle of a large pack of enemies." but I was being healed by more than one source of healing and my health was staying topped up. I was literally hitting the buttons to go into operator to hit the surrounding enemies with Lockdown and also see if Unairu's Sundering Dash works on Acolytes. Dead, instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 24 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said: We making cookies? Cause I got a cookie cutter response right here. You obviously didn’t even bother to read. Soooooo, maybe don't hang out in a pack of enemies and create some distance once in awhile.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 25 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Soooooo, maybe don't hang out in a pack of enemies and create some distance once in awhile.... He said that he was doing fine vs normal mobs and was keeping his health topped off. Shields being down is pretty normal vs grineer, especially since Lavos can’t abuse shield gate with Augur set or Brief Respite like most other frames. (Let’s ignore how stupid it is to have to rely on abusing i-frames as your source of survivability) Acolytes spawn pretty much right next to you, and again, the normal mobs weren’t the issue. Mania doing thousands of damage (around 6500 at lvl 125 iirc) is the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 16 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said: He said that he was doing fine vs normal mobs and was keeping his health topped off. Shields being down is pretty normal vs grineer, especially since Lavos can’t abuse shield gate with Augur set or Brief Respite like most other frames. (Let’s ignore how stupid it is to have to rely on abusing i-frames as your source of survivability) Acolytes spawn pretty much right next to you, and again, the normal mobs weren’t the issue. Mania doing thousands of damage (around 6500 at lvl 125 iirc) is the issue. Acolytes appear on screen with a message and other prompts, giving you plenty of reaction time to prepare for their spawn. Once again, also moving around prevents them from spawning right next to you. You would have to literally be standing still throughout the entire acolyte prompt and spawn for them to appear next to you. A simple bullet jump in any direction can prevent this. Acolytes spawn 5 to 20m away from me because I have a more active playstyle. A simple bullet jump in the air prevents them from hitting you. If you want to transference, you can do this right before they spawn as well. The OP had a late reaction and should have been a little faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo3nixz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 please no, no more enemy nerfs, especially steelpath. the newer acolytes are a cakewalk compared to older ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Acolytes appear on screen with a message and other prompts, giving you plenty of reaction time to prepare for their spawn. Once again, also moving around prevents them from spawning right next to you. You would have to literally be standing still throughout the entire acolyte prompt and spawn for them to appear next to you. A simple bullet jump in any direction can prevent this. Acolytes spawn 5 to 20m away from me because I have a more active playstyle. A simple bullet jump in the air prevents them from hitting you. If you want to transference, you can do this right before they spawn as well. The OP had a late reaction and should have been a little faster. So enemies doing unbalanced damage is fine with you? A “tag, you’re dead.” Lavos has a fair amount of bulk. Being able to afk while Mania whales on you is not being asked. What is being asked is that his damage be reduced so he’s not oneshotting one of the more innately tanky frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, fo3nixz said: please no, no more enemy nerfs, especially steelpath. the newer acolytes are a cakewalk compared to older ones You know that enemy damage is different from enemy health right? Buffing the health is fine, but damage is an issue. also we never encountered acolytes at such a high level before SP, so how are they a cakewalk compared to the old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo3nixz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said: You know that enemy damage is different from enemy health right? Buffing the health is fine, but damage is an issue. also we never encountered acolytes at such a high level before SP, so how are they a cakewalk compared to the old and know the acolytes damage aint an issue? was never an issue with old ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, fo3nixz said: and know the acolytes damage aint an issue? was never an issue with old ones ...because we only fought them at what, lvl 40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo3nixz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 the acolyte can be level 1000 , u can still kill it quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said: So enemies doing unbalanced damage is fine with you? A “tag, you’re dead.” Lavos has a fair amount of bulk. Being able to afk while Mania whales on you is not being asked. What is being asked is that his damage be reduced so he’s not oneshotting one of the more innately tanky frames. A game of tag requires being touched....."Ninjas play free". "The enemy has learned your measure. The lessons you taught have made them wise, their hatred for you making them strong. You are a blade forged and honed, true. But even the sharpest of blades can break. And they must break you, lest you lay them low - now and forever. Show me what you have learned. Survive. To the victor, my esteem... and the spoils." -Teshin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, fo3nixz said: the acolyte can be level 1000 , u can still kill it quickly And I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about their damage output, not their health. Not like lvl 1000 acolytes exist anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo3nixz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 plain and simple if acolyte kill u, u screwed up.. im using a night equinox with 350hp. never been killed by one. SOLO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, fo3nixz said: plain and simple if acolyte kill u, u screwed up.. im using a night equinox with 350hp. never been killed by one. SOLO Personal anecdotes nice. Equinox also has access to shieldgate abuse, but whatever. If Mania's damage being toned down doesn't affect you, why fight against it? Being able to take a hit on high health/armor frame is bad because? 6 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: A game of tag requires being touched....."Ninjas play free". Let's make every enemy a Battalyst then. The best type of tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo3nixz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said: Personal anecdotes nice. Equinox also has access to shieldgate abuse, but whatever. If Mania's damage being toned down doesn't affect you, why fight against it? Being able to take a hit on high health/armor frame is bad because? Let's make every enemy a Battalyst then. The best type of tag any frame can abuse shield gating except inaros & nidus, its more like learn the mechanics first. too prove a point must i go take a base health inaros + bleeding key? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cute_moth.npc Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 I think they should learn from other games and have telegraphs for these attacks, but definitely not tone them down - it's the challenge you're supposed to overcome during "hard mode" to get the reward you really want. I think they should literally be able to kill any Warframe out of fairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Gamma83 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 i don't think it's a bad thing , misery is a bit of a wild card , but take it like pvp , both of you can easily kill the other quickly. just strategize a bit to get the premptive shot or block him with operator dash then slash him to death , there's many way to kill it before he hit you. stop complaining each time an enemy can kill player when they screw up or simply try to face tank everything, otherwise that wouldn't be a game at all , it would simply be a easy mode musou. Also , you seem to complain on this forum for every little thing daily almost. The true balance would actually be to make it impossible to face tank the game like you do (probably with inaros + arcane grace) by decreasing the max output of arcane grace for example because on inaros people take that easy baby mode for granted. These are supposed to be bosses of kind , and misery is the most powerful of them and it's on steel path no less , if you would face tank them just as you would regular monsters , how is that any kind of fun if even bosses can't hurt the player and get killed in 10 sec ? Personally , on the contrary , i think there should be more enemies and boss that can kill like that if players just attempt to face tank without taking any countermeasure when a pop up telling you that he is about to appear is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo3nixz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 51 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said: Personal anecdotes nice. Equinox also has access to shieldgate abuse, but whatever. If Mania's damage being toned down doesn't affect you, why fight against it? Being able to take a hit on high health/armor frame is bad because? Let's make every enemy a Battalyst then. The best type of tag base health inaros + bleeding key & Mania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Gamma83 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 il y a 47 minutes, fo3nixz a dit : base health inaros + bleeding key & Mania yea like i said earlier to them as well , void dash is one way among many to simply block them / make them unable to attack first and kill them easily before they retaliate nice video ^^ videos are best as presentation to prove a point :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo3nixz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 will re up in 1sec, i left my discord and all open :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 29 minutes ago, fo3nixz said: base health inaros + bleeding key & Mania Martyr Symbosis is bugged to give immortality you know right? Here's a nice example of it in action https://streamable.com/ylvgi0 1 hour ago, fo3nixz said: any frame can abuse shield gating except inaros & nidus, its more like learn the mechanics first. too prove a point must i go take a base health inaros + bleeding key? 2 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said: since Lavos can’t abuse shield gate with Augur set or Brief Respite like most other frames. (Let’s ignore how stupid it is to have to rely on abusing i-frames as your source of survivability) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo3nixz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said: Martyr Symbosis is bugged to give immortality you know right? Here's a nice example of it in action https://streamable.com/ylvgi0 aight gimme 5min. no pet no cp ? anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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