Mania (I think) needs to be toned way down.

[Crabopoulos-Michael]

Been currently playing Lavos on steelpath and yeah this can happen if u're too reckless. I wouldn't like them nerfed tho, they're kinda like evil warframes after all, they're supposed to be powerfull and I actually like having to learn what's the best way to deal with them with whatever frame I'm using. With lavos I just stack status on them with corrosive/viral and then catalyze with gas, that's working for me so far, dunno exactly what acolytes I've faced so far but I would guess it works with all of em.

[SpringRocker]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

You're arguing with people that will defend literally anything in the game.  They will defend the devs on literally any design choice until they're blue in the face.  These are seriously people that think getting one-shot is completely fine balance-wise because it represents a "threat".  One of these individuals really tried to use Inaros to prove you don't need a tank frame to not auto-die to that busted melee attack.

With the shield changes, Inaros is THE most likely thing to get one-shotted, everything else has shield gating to a "stay alive" mechanic. On top of that that used a key, taking away the only thing Inaros has for him. It's like you don't even know how the game works, I think THAT'S the problem.

What's next? Want them to use operator only, no transference back to the frame, no voidmode, and while wearing a blindfold? Not everything in the game needs to be dumbed down so you can't die.

If you don't like doing steel path then DON'T. You're picking a harder difficulty and complaining that it's harder than you're used to when the braindead spam isn't as efficient. You're not arguing with people going out of their way defending the game, you're complaining against people who want some kind of challenge in Warframe.

Don't like being challenged? DON'T pick the "challenge" mode.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

35 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

With the shield changes, Inaros is THE most likely thing to get one-shotted, everything else has shield gating to a "stay alive" mechanic. On top of that that used a key, taking away the only thing Inaros has for him. It's like you don't even know how the game works, I think THAT'S the problem.

Did you not see my demonstration? You know, when you're not being a melee bot or using immortality bugs?

[NoSpax]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom:

Point is I don't want oneshots/effective oneshots. I tried replicating Lavos vs Mania. See for yourself what happened. https://streamable.com/z2g46y

This wasn't even a one shot. The hit was gated, the slash proc took over. You are not invulnerable when face down on the floor either, does "melee finishers" say something to you?

Where are your buffs anyway? The "bad health" inaros videos have full rows of buffs, you only have the focus stuff. 

The Martyr Symbosis bug triggers differently, you showed this as evidence: https://streamable.com/ylvgi0 this doesn't match up with the health in the first video, fo3nixz posted.

For the glitch to trigger, the panzer cat must be alive and you need to die. The panzer cat SHOULD turn into a larva and as the code keeps it at 2 HP, another set of code tries to use the collected health off the cat to heal you over and over, trying to kill it. The code would set the collected corpses back to 0, if the panzer cat would change into "DEAD" (HP 0), but as long the panzer cat isn't truely dead, that variable is never reset and even keeps increasing. Your own HP must be low as well as to trigger the code loop. it only stops, if you are at full health or at least over 10% of your HP. And then there is the "god" state - the HP bar becomes grey, which only shows damage isn't done, but the underlying shield and HP still work normally. This is the result of either bad mod interaction between Martyr Symbosis and a mod I can't lay my finger on it (either Panzer Devolution or Tek Assault) or something deeper in the mechanics, because a panzer cat MUST go into larva state, it didn't in the video. It's a (broken) code loop similar to two mods in the past: Rage and Quick Thinking, which both of them fueled each other.

So, how can someone detect an exploiter in a video? The panzer cat must be at 2 HP. The warframe must have low health or dip into below 10% several times.

For once, stop thinking high armor makes you invulnerable, if your HP isn't guarded from procs at all and Poison/Viral/Slash can easily tear through you.

Mania uses a Lacera, high status chance and moderate slash. The reason why the old stalker is deadly was his high slash bow, the newer one just deals mainly Impact with the War.

The GUI doesn't tell you, how many slash procs you have, it just shows you have one. which returns us to the topic.

The Inaros video shows a slash proc of 2 seconds (probably a Grineer one), where you got a full one of 6 seconds from Mania directly. As these should deal 10% over 6 seconds and you died after 2... we can assume, Mania hit you with 6450 Damage as a proc DIRECTLY to your HP. A reason to stay in mid-range distance, kill him asap or get a Anti-Slash Arcane. Or even better: Rolling Guard makes you invulnerable for a short time.

Armor is the least thing you should build for unless you play Rhino or Frost or Valkyr which benefit from that in their abilities. Nor is HP a clear indicator for survival. Ask the people doing Level 10000-ish enemies. They build completely different, as one hit is instakill anyway and shield gating is the only thing between them and you. While using a squishy Mag. And you just have trouble with 6450 Damage as a TANK. Something doesn't add up.

To draw a final verdict: back to the Drawing board and rebuild him, if not ditch stupid-mechanics Lavos. You got either (a) bad build(s) and loadout, if you have that amount of trouble. Steel Path is near min-max meta BS and goin in thinking you can casually walk up to them and faceroll-outtank the enemies might not be the best for your health.  

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

21 minutes ago, NoSpax said:

This wasn't even a one shot. The hit was gated, the slash proc took over. You are not invulnerable when face down on the floor either, does "melee finishers" say something to you?

Where are your buffs anyway? The "bad health" inaros videos have full rows of buffs, you only have the focus stuff. 

It was trying to replicate OP's situation. Funny thing is that I have 1875 armor in that video, almost the same as the Inaros. And it was an effective oneshot. First hit lifted me, meaning I couldn't do anything. My buffs are Arcane Ultimatum. The only defensive buff Inaros had that I didn't was just Adaptation and a bugged Panzer effectively.

30 minutes ago, NoSpax said:

For the glitch to trigger, the panzer cat must be alive and you need to die. The panzer cat SHOULD turn into a larva and as the code keeps it at 2 HP, another set of code tries to use the collected health off the cat to heal you over and over, trying to kill it. The code would set the collected corpses back to 0, if the panzer cat would change into "DEAD" (HP 0), but as long the panzer cat isn't truely dead, that variable is never reset and even keeps increasing. Your own HP must be low as well as to trigger the code loop. it only stops, if you are at full health or at least over 10% of your HP. And then there is the "god" state - the HP bar becomes grey, which only shows damage isn't done, but the underlying shield and HP still work normally. This is the result of either bad mod interaction between Martyr Symbosis and a mod I can't lay my finger on it (either Panzer Devolution or Tek Assault) or something deeper in the mechanics, because a panzer cat MUST go into larva state, it didn't in the video. It's a (broken) code loop similar to two mods in the past: Rage and Quick Thinking, which both of them fueled each other.

So, how can someone detect an exploiter in a video? The panzer cat must be at 2 HP. The warframe must have low health or dip into below 10% several times.

Did you not see the damage calc I made for the Inaros? Also you're wrong about "The panzer cat must be at 2 HP to detect the presence of the bug."
Proof: https://streamable.com/mtmshg
Panzer is staying at max health while I soak up the hits.

While we're here, I'll give a more detailed breakdown of the damage calculation of why Inaros should've been oneshot:
So the build in his second video used a max rank Umbral Fiber with Umbral Intensify. So that's +137.5% Armor. He has Scarab Swarm at 24.3%, so in total that's +161.8% Armor. Health Conversion gives +450 armor per stack, and he had 2 stacks, so +900 armor. Inaros has 225 base armor, so with all those buffs he has 225 x (1 + 1.618) + 900 = 1489 armor.
1489 Armor is a damage modifier of 0.167691.
Inaros has max Impact Adaptation stacks, so incoming Impact damage will have a damage modifier of 1 - 0.75 x 0.9 = 0.325.
Mania has a base damage distribution of 31.25% Impact, 25% Puncture, and 43.75% Slash.
So before armor, Mania will do 78.90625% of his total damage.
Mania is level 140 and has 80 base damage so he will do 80 x [1 + 0.015 x (140 - 1)^1.55] = 2596.83 damage.
Lacera defaults to the neutral combo of Defiled Snapdragon (Claws of the Drake). The first hit lifts and does 300% damage



So Mania will do 2596.83 x 3 = ~7790 damage before any resistances are counted.
Adaptation makes him do 78.90625% of his total, so we're at 7790 x 0.7890625 = 6147 damage.
Armor is a 0.167691 damage modifier, so we're at 6147 x 0.167691 = ~1031 damage.
But hey, lets say you have some shields, so you can take that hit. Whoops, that second hit does the exact damage, and you can't do anything since you're lifted. Third hit? Still lifted and it effectively has the same damage as the first 2, except we have some guaranteed slash procs to add in.

1 hour ago, NoSpax said:

The Inaros video shows a slash proc of 2 seconds (probably a Grineer one), where you got a full one of 6 seconds from Mania directly. As these should deal 10% over 6 seconds and you died after 2... we can assume, Mania hit you with 6450 Damage as a proc DIRECTLY to your HP. A reason to stay in mid-range distance, kill him asap or get a Anti-Slash Arcane. Or even better: Rolling Guard makes you invulnerable for a short time.

You can clearly see I take 1075 health damage before the proc ticks at all. Arcane Deflection isn't gonna save me from that. As for staying mid-range, he spawned a couple meters away as I was animation locked. Can't exactly get away. Same for Rolling Guard. Given that the lifted status lasts for ~2 sec, and then you have to deal with the getup animation, It'll likely be over before you can move again.

1 hour ago, NoSpax said:

Armor is the least thing you should build for unless you play Rhino or Frost or Valkyr which benefit from that in their abilities. Nor is HP a clear indicator for survival. Ask the people doing Level 10000-ish enemies. They build completely different, as one hit is instakill anyway and shield gating is the only thing between them and you. While using a squishy Mag. And you just have trouble with 6450 Damage as a TANK. Something doesn't add up.

Again, trying to replicate OP's conditions. Normally I wouldn't even be playing Lavos (Gauda is currently my frame of choice for most missions). I'm also not playing against lvl 10000 enemies. I don't want a game where I have to treat every hit as an instakill. Being forced to abuse i-frames in the form of shieldgating is distasteful (Also the irony of comparing to a frame that has AoE shield restore for maximum shieldgate abuse). Also its 7790 damage, nevermind that fact that I did have shieldgate.

1 hour ago, NoSpax said:

To draw a final verdict: back to the Drawing board and rebuild him, if not ditch stupid-mechanics Lavos. You got either (a) bad build(s) and loadout, if you have that amount of trouble. Steel Path is near min-max meta BS and goin in thinking you can casually walk up to them and faceroll-outtank the enemies might not be the best for your health.  

I'm not thinking that I can AFK facetank everything though? I'm playing like I can take a few hits then heal up (as Lavos is designed to do). Then I get hit by an attack that completely immobilizes me while doing extremely high damage hits in quick succession.

[SpringRocker]

On 2021-02-04 at 10:41 AM, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

And as Digital extremes stated multiple times through hundreds of streams and events they do not want people having to exclusively use x mod, x frame or x weapon as a whole. And they have their ways to change things so more things are viable than 1 loadout.

You say that, but that's exactly what the game is. Not so much HAVE to, but more along the lines of one or two things sit at the top and the rest just don't work (whether it's broken on release or can't compete against other things that are stupid overpowered). Things like the Pandaro still has the fire delay and the bug where you can't fire, the Mecha set has never been consistant (not to mention that a frame mod you have gives other people armor instead of you for something that specifies you), and dozens of dozens left to speak of. The people shout about some of these issues but it's drowned out by others complaining something is "too hard" or "unfun".

In this instance the key is not to just mindlessly spam melee at enemies, doesn't that pretty much go with what you're saying here? Being a melee spam bot doesn't just wipe out everything else? This is the one instance when it's not that simple and you need to think instead of mashing a button, doesn't this go with more than one loadout being viable? Can you block, have you tried?

As for them listening to their player base, they choose to listen to the people that say that that something should be overpowered and used all the time because it's "fun". They've shown that that don't care about fixing things. Imagine something that doesn't even register being used because it never worked in the first place, years and years later people are still filing bug reports but they never fix it, this is Warframe. Hell, one of the best examples is Boltace glitching people above the skybox in conclave, it's the kind of thing that in order to fix you need to leave and reenter the server.

 

For years I used to keep the wiki updated, track issues, come back later, and file consistent bug reports for something every few months. They don't care about listening to the community, they care about shoving out the next flashy thing they want to show.

EDIT: We're also talking about a challenge mode here, it doesn't need to be dumbed down so you can sit with one hand mashing a button while watching Twitch on another screen.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 04/02/2021 at 8:34 AM, SpringRocker said:

Yes... Let's complain to make an easy game even easier... Death is unfun, let's just remove from the game while we're at it right?

Players breeze past these all the time, sometimes players even kill them by accident.

Someone above me said it better, but there's nothing wrong with something being a threat and capable of killing you. It's a part of the game that's important. So you can't just sit there with one hand on the mouse and act brain dead while spamming a button against them, doesn't mean they're too hard and need to be taken down.

I don't mind a one-shot mechanic BUT it has to be clearly telegraphed like "IMA CHARGING MY LAZOR!!!" and then, if you are lazy to avoid it - BOOM you are on the floor. I am ok with that, I really am. But Acolytes seem to be just broken in some way to oneshot you out of nowhere without any control of the situation. I mean, it is very easy to not get killed by them by a number of cheesy tactics, but they still can kill you RANDOMLY from time to time. This is not a challenge, stop defending flaws of the game we all like.

 

I had a topic about it not long ago. Take a look, you'll see what I mean. 

 

[parttimeparty]

Yep accolytes are way too unbalanced.

The main problem is that they dont drop enough Steel Essence. They should drop at least 5.

Also daily incursion rewards should be raised to 5 at least, preferably 10. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

On 2/4/2021 at 4:30 AM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I like how you picked the tankiest frame to try and prove your point.

Most of you aren't even worth responding to because you didn't even read the post.  It spawned into the middle of a bunch of enemies, blitzed me with a charge/dash type attack and one shot me from full health.  That is not my fault and there is no "mobility" solution unless you think spamming roll as soon as one of these things spawns in is good gameplay.  Getting one shot with the level of tankiness I had is not good balance. "It's your fault that it spawned in and auto-killed you before you could even figure out exactly where it was."  Really?

 

You're arguing with people that will defend literally anything in the game.  They will defend the devs on literally any design choice until they're blue in the face.  These are seriously people that think getting one-shot is completely fine balance-wise because it represents a "threat".  One of these individuals really tried to use Inaros to prove you don't need a tank frame to not auto-die to that busted melee attack.

Once again, there is a prompt to give you enough time to move around. 

It requires some timing that's easily learned after a couple runs. 

Unless you lagged or something, the acolyte appears right after the transmission message. 

Every single time I can move and the acolyte spawns 15m away from me. 

And the Inaros video was with a Bleesing dragon key......he had like 500 health....

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-02-07 at 12:13 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Once again, there is a prompt to give you enough time to move around. 

It requires some timing that's easily learned after a couple runs. 

Unless you lagged or something, the acolyte appears right after the transmission message. 

Every single time I can move and the acolyte spawns 15m away from me. 

And the Inaros video was with a Bleesing dragon key......he had like 500 health....

and yet one-shot mechanic should have a very clear warning and a way to evade it - switch-teleport-knockdown-finish is just an NRG, not a chalenge.

If one-shots had fair rules I would like every acolytes to have it (but of course with a bigger reward, like 5 SE)

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

27 minutes ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

and yet one-shot mechanic should have a very clear warning and a way to evade it - switch-teleport-knockdown-finish is just an NRG, not a chalenge.

If one-shots had fair rules I would like every acolytes to have it (but of course with a bigger reward, like 5 SE)

Do you give a very clear warning when you fight enemies? Because the Stalker and his Acolytes aren't just regular enemies. We don't have a definite answer, but it's hypothesized that they are possibly Tenno or warframes. 

Welcome to war, it's not fair. 

It's the enemies job to kill us, just like it's our job to kill them. 

[Drasiel]

37 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Do you give a very clear warning when you fight enemies? Because the Stalker and his Acolytes aren't just regular enemies. We don't have a definite answer, but it's hypothesized that they are possibly Tenno or warframes. 

Welcome to war, it's not fair. 

It's the enemies job to kill us, just like it's our job to kill them. 

No this is a game not war. Switch teleport which is also used by grineer commanders already has a tell programmed into it, it's just almost impossible to see. For about .5 to 1.0 seconds before it is cast on you there is a faintly glowing orange energy at your feet. You are given almost no time to react and it it's so hard to see that you can miss it even when knowing exactly what it is and looking explicitly for it. The tell also demands you keep your camera aimed at the floor to be able to see it which isn one of the stupidest things I've ever encountered in a game where the camera is your gun. 

So in short the game already thinks its appropriate to warn you, it's just doing a piss poor job of it. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

11 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

No this is a game not war. Switch teleport which is also used by grineer commanders already has a tell programmed into it, it's just almost impossible to see. For about .5 to 1.0 seconds before it is cast on you there is a faintly glowing orange energy at your feet. You are given almost no time to react and it it's so hard to see that you can miss it even when knowing exactly what it is and looking explicitly for it. The tell also demands you keep your camera aimed at the floor to be able to see it which isn one of the stupidest things I've ever encountered in a game where the camera is your gun. 

So in short the game already thinks its appropriate to warn you, it's just doing a piss poor job of it. 

Every game will have something that slightly inconveniences you. You can basically slide through most of the game completely unhindered and inconvenienced once you put some work in. 

The Steel Path is for those that can actually handle slight inconveniences. It's a non-mandatory side part of the game for people that want the extra buffs to enemies. 

If you can't handle it, you have the regular starchart and arbitrations, relics, and sorties to continue sliding through with no danger to your warframe at all.

[SpringRocker]

1 hour ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

and yet one-shot mechanic should have a very clear warning and a way to evade it - switch-teleport-knockdown-finish is just an NRG, not a chalenge.

If one-shots had fair rules I would like every acolytes to have it (but of course with a bigger reward, like 5 SE)

Here's one, DON'T SIT THERE DOING MELEE SPAM. If you stop treating them like every other enemy then you'll find it's not that hard. If it was so clear that you could easily evade with no danger/challenge then what's the point? You can already melee and spin faster than a jet engine, you know they're dangerous, why are angry about shoving yourself into that position when every other way of dealing with it is an option? Why does melee spam need to be the only thing you do, why do you think melee spam should always be viable? "Very clear warning", sounds like you'd be happier playing DDR.

If you don't like the challenge difficulty, don't play the challenge mode.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

1 hour ago, SpringRocker said:

Here's one, DON'T SIT THERE DOING MELEE SPAM. If you stop treating them like every other enemy then you'll find it's not that hard. If it was so clear that you could easily evade with no danger/challenge then what's the point? You can already melee and spin faster than a jet engine, you know they're dangerous, why are angry about shoving yourself into that position when every other way of dealing with it is an option? Why does melee spam need to be the only thing you do, why do you think melee spam should always be viable? "Very clear warning", sounds like you'd be happier playing DDR.

If you don't like the challenge difficulty, don't play the challenge mode.

Sounds like you are ready to defend every flow of the game calling it a feature. Do you think it is good for the game?

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Every game will have something that slightly inconveniences you. You can basically slide through most of the game completely unhindered and inconvenienced once you put some work in. 

The Steel Path is for those that can actually handle slight inconveniences. It's a non-mandatory side part of the game for people that want the extra buffs to enemies. 

If you can't handle it, you have the regular starchart and arbitrations, relics, and sorties to continue sliding through with no danger to your warframe at all.

That has nothing to do with what I said. I'm not talking about steel path being to hard, I'm not talking about how challenging it is. I'm talking about an existing game mechanic that you didn't realize was there. You argue that there is no tell for switch teleport because "challenge" That's completely wrong because there is a tell already in game for switch teleport that was added years ago prior to steel path even existing and post Acolytes, so guess what? Mania already has the tell too. You also equivocate that because reality does x game must do x, in a game without consistent rules laid out for it's science fantasy, which is just silly. 

Steel path became mandatory to progression the second DE put mastery behind the nodes, that's what causes these arguments you have a bunch of people that wouldn't have played it otherwise now feeling forced into doing so. *shrug*

Arguing with me with about maintaining the "challenge" of steel path is pointless, steel path isn't challenging it's just boring. All it requires is certain builds or behaviours in order to pass go, it's no more than a gear check at best. I don't have a problem with the acolyte, I'm not arguing for a change in the acolyte. All I'm saying is that switch teleport already has a tell, it just sucks and should be better because without it there is no counter-play which is why the mechanic was added to switch teleport in the first place. I'm really not kidding, you have to be standing still and staring at your feet to even see the tell it's so faint.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

That has nothing to do with what I said. I'm not talking about steel path being to hard, I'm not talking about how challenging it is. I'm talking about an existing game mechanic that you didn't realize was there. You argue that there is no tell for switch teleport because "challenge" That's completely wrong because there is a tell already in game for switch teleport that was added years ago prior to steel path even existing and post Acolytes, so guess what? Mania already has the tell too. You also equivocate that because reality does x game must do x, in a game without consistent rules laid out for it's science fantasy, which is just silly. 

Steel path became mandatory to progression the second DE put mastery behind the nodes, that's what causes these arguments you have a bunch of people that wouldn't have played it otherwise now feeling forced into doing so. *shrug*

Arguing with me with about maintaining the "challenge" of steel path is pointless, steel path isn't challenging it's just boring. All it requires is certain builds or behaviours in order to pass go, it's no more than a gear check at best. I don't have a problem with the acolyte, I'm not arguing for a change in the acolyte. All I'm saying is that switch teleport already has a tell, it just sucks and should be better because without it there is no counter-play which is why the mechanic was added to switch teleport in the first place. I'm really not kidding, you have to be standing still and staring at your feet to even see the tell it's so faint.

You can obtain mastery without doing the Steel path....people became very high MR before the Steel path was even here. Not to mention that obtaining MR still isn't required or necessary. You can reach 16 to use all weapons and rivens, which can be reached without touching the Steel path. 

[Drasiel]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You can obtain mastery without doing the Steel path....people became very high MR before the Steel path was even here. Not to mention that obtaining MR still isn't required or necessary. You can reach 16 to use all weapons and rivens, which can be reached without touching the Steel path. 

You are missing the point. Maxing mastery is what a lot people have as their endgame goal, for them it's one of the things behind the whole impetus of doing most things in game. If beating/winning at the game is being max mastery to you steel path is mandatory. Unlocking everything is not the same as mastering everything. You don't have to agree with it but you need to understand it is a thing that is real to other people.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

33 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

You are missing the point. Maxing mastery is what a lot people have as their endgame goal, for them it's one of the things behind the whole impetus of doing most things in game. If beating/winning at the game is being max mastery to you steel path is mandatory. Unlocking everything is not the same as mastering everything. You don't have to agree with it but you need to understand it is a thing that is real to other people.

Then you only need to complete each node once and never touch it again. You don't keep getting mastery after you've completed the node.

Get some teammates to help you clear a node, and no one will die if you all 4 attack the acolyte at once.

[Drasiel]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Then you only need to complete each node once and never touch it again. You don't keep getting mastery after you've completed the node.

Get some teammates to help you clear a node, and no one will die if you all 4 attack the acolyte at once.

why are you trying to argue with me about this. I give you a reason why people who you don't think should play the steel path are playing the steel path and you want to start an argument about it. You are oddly combative about simple information and keep making statements that I am the one struggling with this when I'm not.

[SpringRocker]

12 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Sounds like you are ready to defend every flow of the game calling it a feature. Do you think it is good for the game?

Sorry, I just don't see why everything should be dumbed down so that braindead melee spam kills anything/everything. Especially when you're complaining about having to pay attention in a challenge mode.

If you want to spam a button with no chance of failure, go play a cookie clicker, don't complain that a challenge mode needs any semblance of challenge removed.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

1 hour ago, SpringRocker said:

Sorry, I just don't see why everything should be dumbed down so that braindead melee spam kills anything/everything. Especially when you're complaining about having to pay attention in a challenge mode.

If you want to spam a button with no chance of failure, go play a cookie clicker, don't complain that a challenge mode needs any semblance of challenge removed.

Are we playing the same game? :D THis is just a mode where you get more enemy armor and +100 lvl. Steel Path is just more convinient at farming (x2 drop chance, spawn rate in solo same as all 4) and enemies are tanky enough to justify our builds. Where did you find a challenge there? This is a very comfortable mode to play and farm kuva from acolytes, except that one specific acolyte - Mania - can randomly perform an unescapable kill combo from fime to time and you can do NOTHING about it. And it will drop dead most of the time just as easy as all other acolytes but this RNG chance - you just can do nothing about it, you can't react or control it, it just happens ran-dom-ly - do you call a random chance to die a challenge?

[SpringRocker]

9 minutes ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Are we playing the same game? :D THis is just a mode where you get more enemy armor and +100 lvl. Steel Path is just more convinient at farming (x2 drop chance, spawn rate in solo same as all 4) and enemies are tanky enough to justify our builds. Where did you find a challenge there? This is a very comfortable mode to play and farm kuva from acolytes, except that one specific acolyte - Mania - can randomly perform an unescapable kill combo from fime to time and you can do NOTHING about it. And it will drop dead most of the time just as easy as all other acolytes but this RNG chance - you just can do nothing about it, you can't react or control it, it just happens ran-dom-ly - do you call a random chance to die a challenge?

It's not random and you can do something about it, you just choose to spam melee without paying attention. It's obviously a challenge for you because even though you know it's coming you keep falling for it.

Just because you want to be lazy and spam a button for 20 minutes doesn't mean the game needs to be dumbed down even further to suit your wants.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

5 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

It's not random and you can do something about it, you just choose to spam melee without paying attention. It's obviously a challenge for you because even though you know it's coming you keep falling for it.

Just because you want to be lazy and spam a button for 20 minutes doesn't mean the game needs to be dumbed down even further to suit your wants.

so what are your options after you get switch-teleported?

[Drasiel]

14 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

It's not random and you can do something about it, you just choose to spam melee without paying attention. It's obviously a challenge for you because even though you know it's coming you keep falling for it.

Just because you want to be lazy and spam a button for 20 minutes doesn't mean the game needs to be dumbed down even further to suit your wants.

 

14 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

so what are your options after you get switch-teleported?

SpringRocker is technically right, there is a tell prior to being switch teleported. The tell is just extremely short, positioned around your feet, and hard to notice even when standing still and looking for it. There is nothing that can be done once the ability tags you but the purpose of the tell is to give you a chance to dodge it.

So the problem with Mania is not that the ability is random, nor that it's too high damage, it's that the Tell for switch teleport has been horrendously bad since it was added and never actually does it's job. I think a lot more people would be willing to get on board with making the already in place mechanic for avoiding switch teleport actually function in a manner people can notice rather than modifying Mania's damage output. Would you two agree?