Does Revenant really need a rework or changes?

[TzXtetriC]

He only needs to change his enthrall so that the first enemy enthralled is actually immune to team fire or it just lasts 1s alive, Till then his 1 is useless

[Danielw8]

he's fine, maybe revenant should be inmune to energy spikes from eidolons

[(PSN)Jacobivan]

17 hours ago, ConsumerJTC said:

As for his deficiencies, most of them can be covered through the use of the helminth system. Through it there are so many variations of builds that you can make out of him. One key example is the use of Nyx's Mind Control, replacing his 4 in order to create an unintentional synergy which effectively makes one invincible thrall, this also allows your Reave to build up your mesmer skin and one shots the thralls whilst to keep your slave army topped up at the same time. This also feeds his thrall augment, which powers any primary weapons he wields with an additive damage multiplier if used. 

You mean Mind Controlled enemy counts as a thrall for Revenants abilities? 

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

18 hours ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Been talking to a a few people about this frame. I put my opinion out there that his skin looks cool imo, but I refuse to touch the frame with the way it currently is. I got many answers with people flexing about Revenant and how god tier with him they are, but I still find his kit underwhelming and clunky. I think Revenant is more suited to solo play anyway considering his 1 makes thralls... that end up being killed as soon as its cast in pubs, and his 3 requires his 1 to use. I might just suck, and if I do I can admit it, but am I the only one who still thinks Revenant should be better than what he is? Are the people who say he's fine right? Do I really just suck?!

 

my thoughts on revenant specifically - no he is fine how he is

on reworks in general - i'm sick of them. there is a finite amount of ideas and i don't understand the point of coming up with a rework that is then followed by a poor frame or vice versa (that then needs a rework) as has happened alot. same way i feel about those abilities you can cycle through. this game is too fast paced when it's going well to bother with cycling through abilities. if DE have come up with enough interesting ideas to put 6 or 7 abilities on one frame, just give it 4 and put the other ideas in the mix for the next frame.

plus with any rework you are 100% guaranteed to frustrate the portion of the player base who like the frame how he is (looking at you vauban) even the 'successful' wukong rework i would call a failure as he is way too good now, not balanced at all

[ConsumerJTC]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Jacobivan said:

You mean Mind Controlled enemy counts as a thrall for Revenants abilities? 

No, Mind control to make an obedient invincible slave, then cast enthrall to have an obedient invincible thrall that gives you more thralls no matter how many of them dies.

[(PSN)Jacobivan]

25 minutes ago, ConsumerJTC said:

No, Mind control to make an obedient invincible slave, then cast enthrall to have an obedient invincible thrall that gives you more thralls no matter how many of them dies.

Ooh, nice:-) Will definetely try it out. 

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

13 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I'm guessing you probably have no interest in long, looong endurance missions

Nor do 98% of players. If an ability is only good in long endurance missions then it’s not a good ability period.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Nor do 98% of players. If an ability is only good in long endurance missions then it’s not a good ability period.

It's good for those who will use it, you know those other 2%? Why does everything have to be good according to the masses? 

Sidenote: why do people say "period" and then add a fullstop? Seeing as a fullstop IS a period it seems a bit strange.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

It's good for those who will use it, you know those other 2%? Why does everything have to be good according to the masses? 
 

If an ability isn’t useful in regular, everyday gameplay then from a design perspective that just seems like a waste of an ability slot to me. If endurance running was more popular than it is I could agree with you, but it’s such a small niche that designing abilities around it just doesn’t seem smart. Plus DE has made it pretty clear with their trade ban procedures that they don’t like people doing 5+ hour missions anyway (not saying I agree with their procedures, but they are what they are), so an ability that’s only good in 5+ hour missions is clearly not their intention.

That being said, the 98% have 45 frames to play with, so if DE ever did finally embrace the endurance community, you are right there’s nothing wrong with giving them a few abilities for endurance running. It just wouldn’t be a smart business decision to spend the dev time on it, IMO.

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Sidenote: why do people say "period" and then add a fullstop? Seeing as a fullstop IS a period it seems a bit strange.

It’s just a figure of speech we use in America, but I can totally see how it would seem redundant to someone who is not from here.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

If an ability isn’t useful in regular, everyday gameplay then from a design perspective that just seems like a waste of an ability slot to me. If endurance running was more popular than it is I could agree with you, but it’s such a small niche that designing abilities around it just doesn’t seem smart. Plus DE has made it pretty clear with their trade ban procedures that they don’t like people doing 5+ hour missions anyway (not saying I agree with their procedures, but they are what they are), so an ability that’s only good in 5+ hour missions is clearly not their intention.

That being said, the 98% have 45 frames to play with, so if DE ever did finally embrace the endurance community, you are right there’s nothing wrong with giving them a few abilities for endurance running. It just wouldn’t be a smart business decision to spend the dev time on it, IMO.

It’s just a figure of speech we use in America, but I can totally see how it would seem redundant to someone who is not from here.

Well from a business sense I can agree with you, I just often tire of frames being deemed no good because it doesn't appeal to the masses is all. As a long, looong endurance run frame, Revenant is great just as Banshee is incredible in endurance but shunned by most casual pr everyday players. We have enough casual or normal gameplay frames, I feel it's ok to have some frames useful for niche content only.

Thanks for clearing that up, it's always just seemed like someone repeating themselves when I see someone type it. I find it more surprising in text because it makes total sense when you're saying it out loud to someone but not when you're typing a fullstop lol.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

12 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Well from a business sense I can agree with you, I just often tire of frames being deemed no good because it doesn't appeal to the masses is all. As a long, looong endurance run frame, Revenant is great just as Banshee is incredible in endurance but shunned by most casual pr everyday players. We have enough casual or normal gameplay frames, I feel it's ok to have some frames useful for niche content only.

Honestly that’s fair and I don’t disagree with you! If DE was a bigger developer that could spare the dev time to make endurance frames I would be all for it. Unfortunately they can barely develop the current game as it is so adding endurance to the balancing mix would likely not go over well.

12 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Thanks for clearing that up, it's always just seemed like someone repeating themselves when I see someone type it. I find it more surprising in text because it makes total sense when you're saying it out loud to someone but not when you're typing a fullstop lol.

I guess when I type sometimes I will type like I’m talking on paper. If I was saying that sentence out loud I would say “it’s a bad ability, period” but I never considered how it might look weird in text, LOL.

[DaMasque]

Nah, I did see a few people suggesting his 4 be an exalted arm cannon with different forms akin to the eidolons in game. I guess people want eidolon frame to be more eidolonish.

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

You're good, thanks for being civil. Anyway I cant believe Revenant and helminth didn't click fir me until now. I might end up switching stuff around and trying out some helminth combos. Only thing I wonder is do you really need thralls to one shot enemies with reave? Those two abilities alone don't sound like should be removed if that's the synergy.

The combo isnt worth it except in extreme circumstances. I'd just leave a config open with his natural kit for those cases.

13 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I'm guessing you probably have no interest in long, looong endurance missions because then Thrall and Reave come into their own. At max lvl 9999, enemies that are thralled will only take a couple of reaves to kill while mesmer skin makes you invulnerable. Simply put, he only becomes godlike in deep water. Thralling enemies at high level also allows your mesmer skin to work better as less enemies will be shooting at you and you'll be gaining mesmer skin as the thralled ones create even more thralls. He's not a frame for blowing through low level run of the mill missions, he excels at endgame instead.

Nope, no interest at all really. And when I do run longer endless I rarely take anything that doesnt buff the uptime of my companions aswell, in short I tend to run high HP+armor frames. When I do run Rev, Fire Blast does a far better job at maintaining my Mesmer Skin since it isnt capped to 7 enemies that needs to spread over time, it simple lights a whole room on fire making no one shoot at me at all, while also reducing the armor by up to 88% (heat proc included). Reave does it's job well without any sync from thralls, since it gives me iframe time while traveling incase I need it.

20 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Not obsessed but he could really be a cool WarLord type of frame.

And also I hate warframes that rely on damage instead of CC.

I'd love it too if they ever made minions any good in the game, cos I sure do love summoner classes. And sadly, damage is what the game comes down to, CC is a dinosaur mostly and the game needs a rework in several places to change that. Few modes give us a reason to CC instead of bringing damage. There just isnt a real incentive to use CC. Heck, I can barely remember the last time I used Vortex or Bastille on Vauban, since there is a risk they slow down the enemy killing flow. And now that he has flechette orb it is better to have them all come running into LoS of it/them.

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

Do you all know his 1 is free to use on those effected by Mesmer?

His kit works extremely well together. Hus Augments change him up to craft differing versions of his main setup. Hek, the only thing he really needs is a Augment for his 4 that stops him spinning and gives a summon of the lil Vomby guys to pester the area to be more Eidolonish. 

Put Mesmer on, cast 1 on enemies affected by Mesmer for free, Reave through Thralls to get back Mesmers, clear room of all Thralls with 4 and give overshields to others and Reave out the room like a boss. It all works in a synergistic way.

And with Helmy, you can make even more varieties.

He good as is....but most dont master him, they just level him up

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope, no interest at all really. And when I do run longer endless I rarely take anything that doesnt buff the uptime of my companions aswell, in short I tend to run high HP+armor frames. When I do run Rev, Fire Blast does a far better job at maintaining my Mesmer Skin since it isnt capped to 7 enemies that needs to spread over time, it simple lights a whole room on fire making no one shoot at me at all, while also reducing the armor by up to 88% (heat proc included). Reave does it's job well without any sync from thralls, since it gives me iframe time while traveling incase I need it.

While that's a nice synergy as I said, Thrall only comes into its own in deeper water. For normal play it's underwhelming but as I stated before, he's just not a frame for casual play. Against max level enemies you might find yourself wanting to thrall them for Reave to do its deadly damage in later content where your health doesn't mean a damn thing and killing the enemy quickly does. But again, most players will never even see that content and remain oblivious to the differences in how you play the game then. Each to their own, many people don't enjoy playing it and that's fine. Doesn't make it bad though, just makes it commercially bad.

[SneakyErvin]

7 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

While that's a nice synergy as I said, Thrall only comes into its own in deeper water. For normal play it's underwhelming but as I stated before, he's just not a frame for casual play. Against max level enemies you might find yourself wanting to thrall them for Reave to do its deadly damage in later content where your health doesn't mean a damn thing and killing the enemy quickly does. But again, most players will never even see that content and remain oblivious to the differences in how you play the game then. Each to their own, many people don't enjoy playing it and that's fine. Doesn't make it bad though, just makes it commercially bad.

I think I'd be more into killing max level enemies if I didnt have to sit there for hours to begin with. I simply cant beat the twin bosses that are named Boredom and Time. I'd honestly rather sit through a witch trial as the role of the presumed witch, having burning splinters shoved under my fingernails.

[Aldain]

Honestly his issues are similar to Nyx's, he just doesn't matter until the levels reached are so comically absurd that 99% of the playerbase will not even bother with it.

Well that and how allies can kill thralls with minimal effort in most cases, it makes him severely anti-teamplay because of it.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

27 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I think I'd be more into killing max level enemies if I didnt have to sit there for hours to begin with. I simply cant beat the twin bosses that are named Boredom and Time. I'd honestly rather sit through a witch trial as the role of the presumed witch, having burning splinters shoved under my fingernails.

On that note, a simple slider to start any mission at any level you want seems like a fun idea that wouldn’t take any dev time at all.

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Honestly his issues are similar to Nyx's, he just doesn't matter until the levels reached are so comically absurd that 99% of the playerbase will not even bother with it.

Well that and how allies can kill thralls with minimal effort in most cases, it makes him severely anti-teamplay because of it.

How does it make him severly anti-teamplay? The reason for thralls is to reduce incoming fire for you and the group and set the effected mob up for an easy kill if needed. If they die to your team mates there is obviously zero reason to have them around since their damage output will be abyssmal and their ehp is so low that reaving them would be a waste. What is next, people calling it anti-teamplay when a CC frame cant let their CC last for the full duration? Since that is practically what it comes down to with enthrall.

And I cant agree that he's similar to Nyx since Nyx has no offensive or defensive capabilities outside of CC. Rev has defense, high offense and manouverability, while also having the option to bring more offense now through helminth. AoE clearing, which is what Rev brings, is useful at all levels, and Rev's AoE scales well into the levels of what normal people are expected to play these days (some hours in Steel Path). And his defense works the same no matter what level you run, since it doesnt change based on enemy damage output.

 

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

On that note, a simple slider to start any mission at any level you want seems like a fun idea that wouldn’t take any dev time at all.

That is actually what I expected from Steel Path, something similar to Torment in D3. Just hit a switch and get the desired level with the appropriate loot multiplier tied to it.

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

If they die to your team mates there is obviously zero reason to have them around since their damage output will be abyssmal and their ehp is so low that reaving them would be a waste

Which means even making them in the first place is a waste of energy that would likely have been better spent on Danse/Mesmer which further pushes Rev into the meme of being a Mesmer Skin invuln bot.

The entire game is busted right now to the point where "teamplay" pretty much means "standing around while the biggest nuke does literally everything". There's no real synergy or co-op when everything boils down to one-shotting everything in a 20m radius every 2-3 seconds.

Why do you think people chase those hysterically high levels in endurance runs in the first place? Because that's the only place where unga-bunga gameplay doesn't work, with the added downside of anything that doesn't scale infinitely being basically useless.

When you start having "why bother?" gameplay you create things like Nyx and Revenant, frames lauded as being good, but only when almost nothing but infinite power is relevant in the first place because outside of that they are rendered irrelevant by almost everything else.

[nslay]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

How does it make him severly anti-teamplay? The reason for thralls is to reduce incoming fire for you and the group and set the effected mob up for an easy kill if needed. If they die to your team mates there is obviously zero reason to have them around since their damage output will be abyssmal and their ehp is so low that reaving them would be a waste. What is next, people calling it anti-teamplay when a CC frame cant let their CC last for the full duration? Since that is practically what it comes down to with enthrall.

That and the resulting pillars work well at killing the low level stuff while making more Thralls to be killed by team mates (though these resulting ones don't make pillars).

Making a friend out of an enemy is also an effective way to nullify dangerous/annoying attacks... like annoying Noxes, Battalysts in laser attacks, or boss attacks (a lot of bosses are surprisingly susceptible to Enthrall). I mean in Steel Path... a Battalyst transforms into a spinning laser? Enthrall and it doesn't hurt anybody anymore! Then Reave it to death...

Enthrall is definitely more useful than the forum makes it out to be.

EDIT: P.S. Fun fact: Reave does adaptive damage... if you Reave a sentient, you will see resistance to Corrosive damage on the sentient. Cool? That is all.

[JackHargreav]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'd love it too if they ever made minions any good in the game, cos I sure do love summoner classes. And sadly, damage is what the game comes down to, CC is a dinosaur mostly and the game needs a rework in several places to change that. Few modes give us a reason to CC instead of bringing damage. There just isnt a real incentive to use CC. Heck, I can barely remember the last time I used Vortex or Bastille on Vauban, since there is a risk they slow down the enemy killing flow. And now that he has flechette orb it is better to have them all come running into LoS of it/them.

Yeah De should have fixed the minion issue.

I get why that they can't up the Ai. But ffs at least make allied units scale or something.

But no. Of course they will not do anything like that because I guess it would be unbalanced in a game where... Ugh... #*!% it.

Anyways I understand if someone doesn't like the idea of buffing Rev's 1st.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Revenant 100% needs a full fledged rework.

His 1 shot gimmick is overhyped as it’s only impactful at extreme high levels where all other DPS options are obsolete. But nobody plays to that high of level. It’s also far slower to set up that literally shooting your gun.

His theme is also all over the place as he’s supposed to be an Eidolon frame. But due to let’s call them “Ill conceived choices” during his development 3/4 of his powers are vampire themed. His only Eidolons themed ability is Danse Macabre and it’s his best ability by miles.

 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Aldain said:

When you start having "why bother?" gameplay you create things like Nyx and Revenant, frames lauded as being good, but only when almost nothing but infinite power is relevant in the first place because outside of that they are rendered irrelevant by almost everything else.

Rev is probably one of the most balanced frames since he has good AoE clearing capabilities, reliable CC, strong defense and good manouverability, and it all scales. Does he have the strongest abilities in each category? No, but he does have the right mix where nothing is really weak and some parts of the kit surpass others. It is also a kit that works pretty much everywhere no matter the level you face. 

Obviously he will be seen as irrelevant for certain missions compared to other frames, which pretty much applies to every other frame too. We just dont have a frame that is perfect for or at everything. And in most cases it comes down to people not wanting to put in the wee bit of extra work involved to surpass the more simple frames when playing a more active one. That is why Saryn will always be seen as the best AoE, because she is simplistic and forgiving, yet we have frames on the roster that provide just as strong AoE if people are prepared to work a little extra for it by being more active and monitor/manage their abilities. And those frames arent irrelevant because of that, imo they are alot more fun to play, because I actually play them instead of sitting in a watching-paint-dry simulator.