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Revenant rework ideas/changes


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So I love Revenant. I began to play WF around the period he was added, but I am f2p so I didn't buy him from market and acctualy got him a lot later. At first I didn't like him, but I kept him because of his Eidolon theme.

After experimenting with him he became my new main, but here's a well known fact that bothers me and probably other Rev players: his kit is a bloody mess. Passive's shield explosion is useless as long as Mesmer Skin is activated, Enthrall is Nyx's 1 rip-off, Mesmer Skin is imo the best abbility he has, Reave... exists, I gues... and Dense Macabre is a failed nuke attempt.

When we look at Rev's development backstory it's not a suprise he is a mess, he is a vampire, but also isn't, he is a sentient, but also isn't and he is an Eidolon, but also isn't.

In this post I will suggest my personal ideas and changes to Rev's kit and explain my reasons why it's like that and some times compare abbilities with similar abbilities. I will follow his Eidolon/sentient theme, but I will not ingore nor erase the vampire side of Revenant. Reason why is that the original Revenant was possibly the vampire which [DE]Rebbeca wanted, but Gara made him warden to keep an eye on Eidolon and then got "infected" by Eidolon's energy and became Rev we know today.

I also want to point out that I don't make posts on forum often and the look of it might be a larger mess than Rev's kit.

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PASSIVE
OG:
Revenant is immune to the Magnetic night waters of the Plains of Eidolon. Additionally, when his Shield depletes, Revenant emits a radial blast that knocks down nearby enemies.
RW (REWORK): Revenant is immune to the Magnetic night waters of the Plains of Eidolon. Additionally, Revenant's attacks adapt to enemy's weakness (+25% damage) or increases their power (+15% damage, if that damage type is already on weapon)

I don't like Rev's current passive, it's weak, unpractical and not needed when Mesmer Skin exists. So I kept the Magnetic immunity because of the theme, but I replaced blast with damage adaption. The way I imagined is similar to how augment changes Baruuk's 4 to alter into enemy's weakness. If, for example, you are fighting Grineer without corrosive this passive will add corrosive to your weapon, but if you already have corrosive it will increase it.

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1-ENTHRALL
OG:
Revenant releases his Sentient energy onto an enemy target within a range of 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 meters, converting it into an Alpha Thrall that is forced to fight for the Tenno cause. Alpha thrall's attacks spread the affliction to other enemies, also converting them into other alpha thralls on hit. All types of thralls remain under Revenant's control for 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 seconds and only 7 total thralls may exist at once.
RW: Revenant releases his Sentient energy onto an enemy target within a range of 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 meters, converting it into an Alpha Thrall that is forced to fight for the Tenno cause. Alpha thrall's attacks spread the affliction to other enemies,
also converting them into other alpha thralls on hit. All types of thralls remain under Revenant's control for 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 seconds and only 7 total thralls may exist at once.

In the basic description I only changed base duration of Enthrall and even though enemy mind control some times (ok, very often) doesn't seem like useful abbility at all I did add some things that should work better with Enthrall.

First: Thralls don't take any damage from you and your allies (with 1 exception that I'll talk about later).

EDIT: Some people suggested this and I think it is a pretts good idea. Instead of changing Thralls so that they don't take damage from you and the team they should be changed so that only Revenant can kill the Thralls.

Secod: On death Thralls don't turn into baby tornado rip-off with terrible range and damage, instead they become a blast of energy, similar to Rev's OG passive, that knock down enemies and deal 500/1,000/1,500/2,000 damage. The damage would be made of 50% (1/2) radiation and 50% weakness damage (corrosive againts Grineer etc.). Knocked down enemies will be open for finisher attacks.

2nd EDIT: Also a good idea suggested in the comments is that instead of dealing 500-2,000 damage upon death, Thralls will store the damage they take from the team and then that damage is released upon Thrall's death. Since this wouldn't realy work in solo missions I was thinking that in solo missions the damage they took from Revenant is released in the blast, but it is also doubled compared to the amount it took to kill them.

Third: Thrall's damage is going to match the damage they can do at their current level, but it will also be increased by abbility Strenght mods.
Fourth: Thralls will draw fire from enemies in 10/15/20/25 meter radius

Reason why I went for blast upon death instead keeping tornado is to kind of match Eidolon's Ground Stomp and Energy Spike.
If at least 1 Thrall keeps most enemies busy this should give you an opening to escape in a bad situation and will damage buff from your mods they might acctualy stand a chance againts enemies.

===============================
2-MESMER SKIN
OG:
Revenant surrounds himself in a shroud of Sentient energy that reflects 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 incoming enemy attacks; attackers receive 100% of the reflected damage and Status Effects, while also becoming stunned for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 seconds. Mesmer Skin lasts until all charges are used.
RW: Revenant surrounds himself in a shroud of Sentient energy that reflects 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 incoming enemy attacks; attackers receive 100% of the reflected damage and Status Effects, while also becoming stunned for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 seconds. Mesmer Skin lasts until all charges are used.

Say what you want, Mesmer Skin is a fine abbility which only needs a little help. We are talking about 100% damage immunity+stun. The biggest problem I have with Mesmer Skin is how many charged you can have. Maximum amount I saw was 25 and that was on pure strenght build.

First: Now the base value is 25 and ofcourse it can be increased by abbility Strenght mods.
Second: Mesmer Skin charges also won't be affected by damage dealt by status effects, so things like toxin and heat won't eat away your charges nor shields and HP.
Third: Stunned enemies will take x2 damage, but they can still be Enthralled
Fourth: Recasting Mesmer Skin will extend Enthrall duration by 50% of Enthrall's duration. (So if duration is 30 seconds and at the moment there's only 5 seconds left recasting Mesmer Skin will bring timer up to 20 seconds)
Fifth: Damage taken by Thralls and by Mesmer Skin will added to special counter (similar to how Gara's 2 keeps track of extra damage when you do whole 2+4+1+4+1 combo). This added damage is going to be added to your weapons and the weapons of team mates in aura range.

===============================
3-REAVE
OG:
Revenant transforms into a torrent of Sentient energy that surges forward toward the aiming reticle, at a speed of ? meters per second for 0.25 / 0.5 / 0.75 / 1 second. While traveling in energy form, Revenant is intangible, invulnerable to damage and protected against new Status Effects, as he pushes an energy current with a width of 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 meters. Reave can be manually cancelled by pressing the ability key again (default 3 ) during the dash. Enemies passing through the energy current are drained 2% / 4% / 6% / 8% of their maximum Shields and Health, while Revenant restores 2% / 4% / 6% / 8% of his maximum shields and health from each enemy leeched; all active status effects on Revenant are also transferred to enemies he passes through.
RW: Revenant transforms into a torrent of Sentient energy that surges forward toward the aiming reticle, at a speed of ? meters per second for 0.75 / 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 second. While traveling in energy form, Revenant is intangible, invulnerable to damage, all Status Effects are removed when abbility ends and protected against new Status Effects, as he pushes an energy current with a width of 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 meters. Reave can be manually cancelled by pressing the ability key again (default 3 ) during the dash. Enemies passing through the energy current are drained 4% / 8% / 12% / 16% of their maximum Shields and Health, while Revenant restores 4% / 8% / 12% / 16% of his maximum shields and health from each enemy leeched; all active status effects on Revenant are also transferred to enemies he passes through.

Reave is clearly inspired to Vomvalyst's ghost smoke thing abbility which I used to scare my friend one time (returning player, never saw PoE), but there are some problems: life and shield drain is weak, mobility is like Wukong's old cloudwalker and that small animation before transfomation is a death sentence. I understand that I removed passive because Mesmer Skin makes it as good as useless, and maybe Reave should be replaced by something else, it can still turn into an escape abbility and it can deal some nice damage with some changes, which is why I am keeping it.

First: Remove the animation. Out! Get rid of it! Never existed! If you don't agree with any of changes I suggested I think we can all agree on at least this one. Wukong's Cloudwalker, which is already a 100 times stronger version of Reave basically doesn't have animation, Wukong just jumps and becomes a cloud in a 0.1 second.
Second: Doesn't alert enemies and it doesn't activate alarms when you pass trough them. This realy bothers me because just like Wukong, Rev becomes a freaking smoke cloud. If Wukong doesn't trigger anything then why should Rev trigger alarms?
Third: Passing trough Thralls will damage their shields and HP and this is increased by 5 (20/40/60/90%). This is the exception I meantioned at damaging Thralls. With 90% damage and shield/HP restore this abbility becomes a better damage abbility and it can get you back to 100% shields and HP by simply passing trough 2 Thralls. If you kill them with this you also trigger the death blast.
Fourth: With Mesmer skin activated Reave restores 4/6/8/10 energy per enemy. 5 enemies=50 energy=free cast.
Fifth: Enemies hit by Reave take triple damage from Rev's and ally's attacks (except a second Reave) for 4/6/8/10 seconds.

===============================
4-YOU SPIN ME RIGHT ROUND, BABY-

I mean...
4-DANSE MACABRE

OG: Revenant unleashes the might of the Eidolon essence emanating from his left arm, dispersing the Sentient energy into 9 energy beams as he levitates and spins counterclockwise. Energy beams oscillate in angle vertically as Revenant rotates, rapidly sweeping across a 100 meter radius area with rotation speed 1 rev/sec in a pentagonal shape. Each energy beam has a thickness of 0.03 / 0.05 / 0.08 / 0.1 meter radius and continuously inflicts 500 / 750 / 1,000 / 1,250 damage per second with a 20% status chance to all enemies caught in its path. Holding the fire button (default LMB ) increases the beams' damage per second to 1,000 / 1,500 / 2,000 / 2,500, status chance to 40%, and beam radius to 0.05 / 0.1 / 0.15 / 0.2 meters, while also increasing energy drain to 40 energy per second.
RW: Revenant unleashes the might of the Eidolon essence emanating from his RAISED UP arm, dispersing the Sentient energy into 12 energy beams as he levitates and spins counterclockwise. Energy beams oscillate in angle vertically as Revenant rotates, rapidly sweeping across a 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 meter radius area with rotation speed 1 rev/sec in a pentagonal shape. Each energy beam has a thickness of 0.03 / 0.05 / 0.08 / 0.1 meter radius and continuously inflicts 750 / 1,000 / 1,250 / 1,500 damage per second with a 30% status chance to all enemies caught in its path. Holding the fire button (default LMB ) increases the beams' damage per second to 1,500 / 2,00 / 2,500 / 3,000, status chance to 60%, and beam radius to 0.05 / 0.1 / 0.15 / 0.2 meters, while also increasing energy drain to 40 energy per second. Holding down abbility button will activate a shockwave (25 energy) stunning all enemies in 150 meter radius for 2/4/6/8 seconds.

Danse Macabre had a potential to clear a room of enemies, but it didn't have good range nor good damage for it and the high energy cost wasn't worth it. With increased range and damage it can now do that.
Now let's get to the other changes:


First: With Mesmer Skin activated holding down abbility button will add 50% of collected damage to Rev's beam for 5/10/15/20 seconds
Second: There's 10% chance that enemy will drop special orbs that are picked up by beams. Each orb will count as 1 free charge for Rev's stun blast while holding 4th abbility button, but after Danse Macabre is deactivated. Maximum amount of orbs is 10. Long story short you get 10 free stuns after deactivating Danse Macabre.

===============================
And that's it from me. If I didn't point out and change a certain part of Rev's kit it means it stays the same as it is (damage adaption for Rev's 4, for example. It stays there, but I didn't see a purpose of pointing it out).
Now I know this isn't the ussual Revenant rework which people are used to see, where Rev's 2 or passive are changed to Adaptation mod or where his 1, 3 and some times either 2 or 4 are replaced. I simply changed and upgraded some abbilities.


Reason why I did it like this is because I see Rev as someone who, before becoming Eidolon hybrid, was a warframe who adapted to situations and used his enemies againts them. With Eidolon infection this changed, but not completly since he can still manipulate enemies (mind control them and turn them againts one another, or stun them with other abbilities making them easy to kill) with added Eidolon powers (unique shields, recovery abbilities and mass destruction).

And that's it, I hope you liked at least one change (removing animation from 3 doesn't count), if you have any advice, tips, suggestions or criticism please share it.

Edited by SkyRox3112
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if you don't like revenant's passive than loki's passive will give you seizure. Revenant is perfect as he is, he's almost unkillable unless you going for long runs ( maybe you can, i never did).  

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Doesn’t make him any more Eidolon themed than he is now.

Theres also no lore tying Revenant to a vampire theme, so don’t feel bad about ripping it completely out of him.

As Revenant literally started out as the concept art of “Eidolon Warframe” first. Then Rebecca was given lead over his development because everyone else was busy with ForTuna. And that’s when his vampire theme was shoved into him.
It’s doesn’t make sense to have a frame who’s entire backstory revolves around being captured and corrupted by the Eidolons, but then their powers don’t reflect that. Because if the intention from the start was to make a vampire frame then why pick a frame design and backstory that involves Eidolons? Things that couldn’t be any more obviously not vampires.

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4 minutes ago, Dauggie said:

if you don't like revenant's passive than loki's passive will give you seizure. Revenant is perfect as he is, he's almost unkillable unless you going for long runs ( maybe you can, i never did).  

Mesmer skin actively gimps Danse Macabres scaling mechanic. A “perfect frame” would not have anti-synergies within their kit.

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2 hours ago, SkyRox3112 said:

First: Thralls don't take any damage from you and your allies (with 1 exception that I'll talk about later).

While I totally agree that thralls shoudn't get damaged by the teammates (even more now with it's new-ish augment, Thrall Pact), I believe they should be damaged by Revenant to allow for player choice. Maybe the player want the effect of the thrall death, or maybe he wants to free up a "thrall slot" for another, stronger thrall (like killing a grineer lancer so that you can enthrall a grineer nox). The damage caused by other players could be stored and delivered all at once, once the ability duration for that thrall wears off, to prevent trolling (on missions like Extermination).
Plus the player should have the ability to mass-un-enthrall all the converted thralls by holding down the ability key. This way you could make new thralls when you otherwise wouldnt be able to, like in mobile defense missions where you want to make new thralls on the new mob defense tile, but all your 7 thralls are still 3 tiles back on the old mob defense site.

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1 hour ago, p_silveira said:

 Maybe the player want the effect of the thrall death, or maybe he wants to free up a "thrall slot" for another, stronger thrall (like killing a grineer lancer so that you can enthrall a grineer nox). The damage caused by other players could be stored and delivered all at once, once the ability duration for that thrall wears off, to prevent trolling (on missions like Extermination).
Plus the player should have the ability to mass-un-enthrall all the converted thralls by holding down the ability key. This way you could make new thralls when you otherwise wouldnt be able to, like in mobile defense missions where you want to make new thralls on the new mob defense tile, but all your 7 thralls are still 3 tiles back on the old mob defense site.

I didn't think about that, but they do sound like a good ideas. I'll include it 100% if I make updated version.

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7 hours ago, SkyRox3112 said:

First: Thralls don't take any damage from you and your allies (with 1 exception that I'll talk about later).
Second: On death Thralls

doesn't work well if thralls have a on death mechanic but have no easy way to kill them, especially if it's enemy on enemy damage. the best compromise is one you can test out by putting nyx's mind control on rev and using it together with enthrall, you'll have an actual alpha thrall that can't be killed by teammates and can reliably keep producing beta thralls up to the limit for its duration, while the beta thralls can still be killed by any means to proc their on death effects.

basically the rework should double down on the whole alpha/beta thralls thing by making the alpha thrall invuln to team damage.

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19 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Doesn’t make him any more Eidolon themed than he is now.

Theres also no lore tying Revenant to a vampire theme, so don’t feel bad about ripping it completely out of him.

As Revenant literally started out as the concept art of “Eidolon Warframe” first. Then Rebecca was given lead over his development because everyone else was busy with ForTuna. And that’s when his vampire theme was shoved into him.
It’s doesn’t make sense to have a frame who’s entire backstory revolves around being captured and corrupted by the Eidolons, but then their powers don’t reflect that. Because if the intention from the start was to make a vampire frame then why pick a frame design and backstory that involves Eidolons? Things that couldn’t be any more obviously not vampires.

I used to theorise about what kind of warframe Rev was before he got corrupted and the idea that he probably used to be the vampire frame somehow seemed most logical to me and it'd kind of explain why his kit is 50/50 vamp/Eidolon. I unfortunatly like that theory too much so a theory that he wasn't the vamp frame seems unnatural to me, basically that's probably the reason why I kept a bit of vamp theme.

Still I went with an idea of rework where the enemy themself can increase Rev's power (Thralls, giving him extra damage) and can use that along rest of kit abbilities (damage adaption, some tyoe of CC etc.) to kill the enemy

I noticed that you also made a Rev rework post and that you share opinion that Rev NEEDS rework so can you share some tips or changes to this rework?

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1 hour ago, SkyRox3112 said:

I used to theorise about what kind of warframe Rev was before he got corrupted and the idea that he probably used to be the vampire frame somehow seemed most logical to me and it'd kind of explain why his kit is 50/50 vamp/Eidolon. I unfortunatly like that theory too much so a theory that he wasn't the vamp frame seems unnatural to me, basically that's probably the reason why I kept a bit of vamp theme.

Still I went with an idea of rework where the enemy themself can increase Rev's power (Thralls, giving him extra damage) and can use that along rest of kit abbilities (damage adaption, some tyoe of CC etc.) to kill the enemy

I noticed that you also made a Rev rework post and that you share opinion that Rev NEEDS rework so can you share some tips or changes to this rework?

Well that’s just the problem. It’s a theory. As, again, there’s no in lore evidence to tell us what he before being corrupted. And it calls even more questions of what was the point of giving Revenant a 1000 year deep soak in Eidolon juices if he’s not getting anything but a cosmetic makeover out of it. He’s supposed to be corrupted by Eidolons and the idea that he gets 1 ability out of it is ridiculous. As well as it effectively wasting two themes that could’ve been 2 great frames on their own, but I don’t find Revenants current abilities to be that good, and he very heavily leans to the vampire side of things effectively wasting the Eidolon theme.

I don’t like throwing my rework ideas into other people’s threads unless I feel it actually enhances the ideas the person is suggesting or potentially provide some inspiration. My Revenant rework is a complete uprooting if everything Revenant currently is to lean heavily into Eidolon and Sentient abilities and attributes. That doesn’t mesh with a rework that’s ultimately keeping him the same.

But we did have the same exact idea for his passive.

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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6 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Well that’s just the problem. It’s a theory. As, again, there’s no in lore evidence to tell us what he before being corrupted. And it calls even more questions of what was the point of giving Revenant a 1000 year deep soak in Eidolon juices if he’s not getting anything but a cosmetic makeover out of it. He’s supposed to be corrupted by Eidolons and the idea that he gets 1 ability out of it is ridiculous. As well as it effectively wasting two themes that could’ve been 2 great frames on their own, but I don’t find Revenants current abilities to be that good, and he very heavily leans to the vampire side of things effectively wasting the Eidolon theme.

I don’t like throwing my rework ideas into other people’s threads unless I feel it actually enhances the ideas the person is suggesting or potentially provide some inspiration. My Revenant rework is a complete uprooting if everything Revenant currently is to lean heavily into Eidolon and Sentient abilities and attributes. That doesn’t mesh with a rework that’s ultimately keeping him the same.

But we did have the same exact idea for his passive.

There are acctualy 3 abbilities: Mesmer Skin based on Eidolon shields or Sentient damage immunity/adapting (or possibly both), but it isn't perfect so I guess we can consider it 0.5 Eidolon themed, Reave is a clear copy of Vomvalyst's cloud phase and Macabre is a very obvious copy of Sentient lasers. Only Enthrall is not-Eidolon abbility.

But I see your point, our ideas for the rework are completly different, except passive, so sharing advices might lead to nowhere. Maybe I'll make a second version when I get a better ideas and with Sevagoth on the way I'll probably ignore whole vamp theme, cuz Sevagoth is clearly a more vampire frame than Rev.

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18 hours ago, SkyRox3112 said:

There are acctualy 3 abbilities: Mesmer Skin based on Eidolon shields or Sentient damage immunity/adapting (or possibly both), but it isn't perfect so I guess we can consider it 0.5 Eidolon themed, Reave is a clear copy of Vomvalyst's cloud phase and Macabre is a very obvious copy of Sentient lasers. Only Enthrall is not-Eidolon abbility.

But I see your point, our ideas for the rework are completly different, except passive, so sharing advices might lead to nowhere. Maybe I'll make a second version when I get a better ideas and with Sevagoth on the way I'll probably ignore whole vamp theme, cuz Sevagoth is clearly a more vampire frame than Rev.

There are no sentient units that have a 100% DR ability that runs off charges. They also don’t have the ability to put enemies to sleep.

Reave was originally a flat wall of smoke, something the sentient do not turn into, and the ability itself drains enemy life like a vampire. Sentients don’t drain health. It was changed to the vomvalyst dash because that smoke effect was ugly.

Yeah, I’ve been butting heads with people for 2 years now over Revenant. I want a complete change and they don’t want him changed at all. But now that Sevagoth is coming and his abilities actually echo a lot of ideas I had for a vampire frame I’ve been more open to the idea of moving Revenants abilities to a completely new frame. Because then we’d have Revenant as an Eidolon frame, Sevagoth as surrogate vampire frame, and Unnamed vampire themed frame as the new holder of Revenants first 3 abilities. So then I will no longer have any reason to be ruthlessly critical of Revenants abilities as they’d be on a frame that I’d have no reason to care about.

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3 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

There are no sentient units that have a 100% DR ability that runs off charges. They also don’t have the ability to put enemies to sleep.

Reave was originally a flat wall of smoke, something the sentient do not turn into, and the ability itself drains enemy life like a vampire. Sentients don’t drain health. It was changed to the vomvalyst dash because that smoke effect was ugly.

Yeah, I’ve been butting heads with people for 2 years now over Revenant. I want a complete change and they don’t want him changed at all. But now that Sevagoth is coming and his abilities actually echo a lot of ideas I had for a vampire frame I’ve been more open to the idea of moving Revenants abilities to a completely new frame. Because then we’d have Revenant as an Eidolon frame, Sevagoth as surrogate vampire frame, and Unnamed vampire themed frame as the new holder of Revenants first 3 abilities. So then I will no longer have any reason to be ruthlessly critical of Revenants abilities as they’d be on a frame that I’d have no reason to care about.

Well technically Tridolons have shields with DR to everything except Void damage. Charges are there to have some way for enemies to decrease it and it provides a bit of CC, better than just simply 100% or 90% DR imo.

Yes, the OG Reave wasn't like Vomvalyst's smoke form, but it was changed to match Vomvalyst. And last time I checked Vomvalysts are also Eidolons.

And there's the reason why people often disagree with you, you want to completly change his kit and playstyle while majority of people consider that buffs, tweaks and working synergy is all he needs

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On 2021-02-04 at 12:27 PM, SkyRox3112 said:

PASSIVE
OG:
Revenant is immune to the Magnetic night waters of the Plains of Eidolon. Additionally, when his Shield depletes, Revenant emits a radial blast that knocks down nearby enemies.
RW (REWORK): Revenant is immune to the Magnetic night waters of the Plains of Eidolon. Additionally, Revenant's attacks adapt to enemy's weakness (+25% damage) or increases their power (+15% damage, if that damage type is already on weapon)

I don't like Rev's current passive, it's weak, unpractical and not needed when Mesmer Skin exists. So I kept the Magnetic immunity because of the theme, but I replaced blast with damage adaption. The way I imagined is similar to how augment changes Baruuk's 4 to alter into enemy's weakness. If, for example, you are fighting Grineer without corrosive this passive will add corrosive to your weapon, but if you already have corrosive it will increase it.

This would be great, a unique weapon damage-dealing adaptation instead of DR adaptation!

On 2021-02-04 at 12:27 PM, SkyRox3112 said:

In the basic description I only changed base duration of Enthrall and even though enemy mind control some times (ok, very often) doesn't seem like useful abbility at all I did add some things that should work better with Enthrall.

First: Thralls don't take any damage from you and your allies (with 1 exception that I'll talk about later).
Second: On death Thralls don't turn into baby tornado rip-off with terrible range and damage, instead they become a blast of energy, similar to Rev's OG passive, that knock down enemies and deal 500/1,000/1,500/2,000 damage. The damage would be made of 50% (1/2) radiation and 50% weakness damage (corrosive againts Grineer etc.). Knocked down enemies will be open for finisher attacks.
Third: Thrall's damage is going to match the damage they can do at their current level, but it will also be increased by abbility Strenght mods.
Fourth: Thralls will draw fire from enemies in 10/15/20/25 meter radius

Reason why I went for blast upon death instead keeping tornado is to kind of match Eidolon's Ground Stomp and Energy Spike.
If at least 1 Thrall keeps most enemies busy this should give you an opening to escape in a bad situation and will damage buff from your mods they might acctualy stand a chance againts enemies.

This is an absolutely terrible idea. Enthrall is a fantastic aggro-stealing CC ability, especially on steel path. And if you keep killing off your thralls at a decent clip, then you have infinite duration after one cast. These changes would absolutely suck.

On 2021-02-04 at 12:27 PM, SkyRox3112 said:

Say what you want, Mesmer Skin is a fine abbility which only needs a little help. We are talking about 100% damage immunity+stun. The biggest problem I have with Mesmer Skin is how many charged you can have. Maximum amount I saw was 25 and that was on pure strenght build.

First: Now the base value is 25 and ofcourse it can be increased by abbility Strenght mods.
Second: Mesmer Skin charges also won't be affected by damage dealt by status effects, so things like toxin and heat won't eat away your charges nor shields and HP.
Third: Stunned enemies will take x2 damage, but they can still be Enthralled
Fourth: Recasting Mesmer Skin will extend Enthrall duration by 50% of Enthrall's duration. (So if duration is 30 seconds and at the moment there's only 5 seconds left recasting Mesmer Skin will bring timer up to 20 seconds)
Fifth: Damage taken by Thralls and by Mesmer Skin will added to special counter (similar to how Gara's 2 keeps track of extra damage when you do whole 2+4+1+4+1 combo). This added damage is going to be added to your weapons and the weapons of team mates in aura range.

Mesmer skin doesn't need any of this.

 

On 2021-02-04 at 12:27 PM, SkyRox3112 said:

Reave is clearly inspired to Vomvalyst's ghost smoke thing abbility which I used to scare my friend one time (returning player, never saw PoE), but there are some problems: life and shield drain is weak, mobility is like Wukong's old cloudwalker and that small animation before transfomation is a death sentence. I understand that I removed passive because Mesmer Skin makes it as good as useless, and maybe Reave should be replaced by something else, it can still turn into an escape abbility and it can deal some nice damage with some changes, which is why I am keeping it.

First: Remove the animation. Out! Get rid of it! Never existed! If you don't agree with any of changes I suggested I think we can all agree on at least this one. Wukong's Cloudwalker, which is already a 100 times stronger version of Reave basically doesn't have animation, Wukong just jumps and becomes a cloud in a 0.1 second.
Second: Doesn't alert enemies and it doesn't activate alarms when you pass trough them. This realy bothers me because just like Wukong, Rev becomes a freaking smoke cloud. If Wukong doesn't trigger anything then why should Rev trigger alarms?
Third: Passing trough Thralls will damage their shields and HP and this is increased by 5 (20/40/60/90%). This is the exception I meantioned at damaging Thralls. With 90% damage and shield/HP restore this abbility becomes a better damage abbility and it can get you back to 100% shields and HP by simply passing trough 2 Thralls. If you kill them with this you also trigger the death blast.
Fourth: With Mesmer skin activated Reave restores 4/6/8/10 energy per enemy. 5 enemies=50 energy=free cast.
Fifth: Enemies hit by Reave take triple damage from Rev's and ally's attacks (except a second Reave) for 4/6/8/10 seconds.

I really like these changes. Mesmer skin kinda makes Reave pointless at the moment, and these changes would make it actually useful. The cloudwalker-like changes all make more sense for revenant than wukong honestly based on the ability description, and the fifth change would make it easier to stay in danse mecabre at high levels.

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On 2021-02-06 at 2:12 PM, SkyRox3112 said:

Well technically Tridolons have shields with DR to everything except Void damage. Charges are there to have some way for enemies to decrease it and it provides a bit of CC, better than just simply 100% or 90% DR imo.

Yes, the OG Reave wasn't like Vomvalyst's smoke form, but it was changed to match Vomvalyst. And last time I checked Vomvalysts are also Eidolons.

And there's the reason why people often disagree with you, you want to completly change his kit and playstyle while majority of people consider that buffs, tweaks and working synergy is all he needs

The charges are honestly one of the worst tank ability designs for a horde shooter. And the putting enemy to sleep effect actively gimps Danse’s scaling mechanic.

Changing the visual design of an ability and not the mechanics doesn’t automatically make something themed after the visual design. Thralls get Eidolons looking markers over their head, that doesn’t make Enthrall Eidolons themed.

I’m not interested in letting a great frame concept go to waste.

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Agree on the Thrall changes as far as making them immune to teammate damage goes. It's always good to have some QoL to allow him to utilize his synergies without some press-4-to-win braindead player nuking his essentials.

Kinda disagree on the Mesmer Skin changes. If you roll Revenant with at least 250% strength, you get 15 charges which is more than sufficient as a defensive skill. You may think that amount may be small, but you have to remember that unlike other defense skills like Iron Skin, enemies are taken out of the fight when damage is reflected at them because of the skill's stun. This change would only work if the 25 charges can't be scaled with power strength anymore, otherwise Revenant will only need to cast maybe once or twice throughout an entire mission when high strength may give upwards of 62 charges. Not even Iron Skin lasts that long in high level missions.

Reave's duration and size is alright, but I disagree with the damage changes. With 250% power strength minimum, you can raise its damage dealt to thralls up to 100%, instantly killing them whenever you pass through. Your proposed changes would mean reaching that amount of damage would be minimal at best with at least a very basic strength mod installed. Combine this with your proposed Mesmer Skin changes, it would shift Revenant out of needing to focus on strength for anything beyond improving the damage of his now-exploding thralls and his 4. You can then focus primarily on increasing duration for long-lasting thralls and Mesmer Skin stuns which would make him overpowered.

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  • 1 month later...

honestly i don't think he needs much in the way of a rework. the only true issue i take with him is his first ability, which is a bad mix of nekros' shadow army and nyx's mind control.

this is your rework thread so i'll try not to go too in detail here, but instead of making the enthralled enemies invincible (which lets face it is counterintuitive in almost any game mode) why not add a mechanic where on death, they take a scaled percentage of the health of the target, and the damage dealt by both revenant and your allies, and make an adapted sentient drone based on that damage? something to that effect would be fun as hell imo and scale to higher levels. plus you wouldn't have to worry about invincible enemies.

my only other change / suggestions would be a hold mechanic that ends the enthrallment. because seriously, leaving a thrall behind only to find out later your 7 max cap has been reached and is stuck there for the rest of the mission really sucks.

PS: maybe if you mix the two ideas you might be able to recall the drones to get a buff from them based on the damage types and total damage they tanked for you! something that can be applied to danse macabre as a workaround to the mesmer skin anti-synergy?

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On 2021-03-09 at 11:31 PM, (PSN)oracle-ryuu said:

honestly i don't think he needs much in the way of a rework. the only true issue i take with him is his first ability, which is a bad mix of nekros' shadow army and nyx's mind control.

this is your rework thread so i'll try not to go too in detail here, but instead of making the enthralled enemies invincible (which lets face it is counterintuitive in almost any game mode) why not add a mechanic where on death, they take a scaled percentage of the health of the target, and the damage dealt by both revenant and your allies, and make an adapted sentient drone based on that damage? something to that effect would be fun as hell imo and scale to higher levels. plus you wouldn't have to worry about invincible enemies.

my only other change / suggestions would be a hold mechanic that ends the enthrallment. because seriously, leaving a thrall behind only to find out later your 7 max cap has been reached and is stuck there for the rest of the mission really sucks.

PS: maybe if you mix the two ideas you might be able to recall the drones to get a buff from them based on the damage types and total damage they tanked for you! something that can be applied to danse macabre as a workaround to the mesmer skin anti-synergy?

I can see the death-drone working under one condition: They don't block the thrall cap. If you have 7 drones and then create a thrall, the oldest drone dies/despawns. This way, they don't interfere with the ability's synergy with Reave or Danse Macabre.

Overall this is a good idea as it both preserves the current Enthrall mechanic while still providing minions if they get killed by you or your teammates.

Edited by Pizzarugi
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For 2 - MESMER SKIN

Review: I mean does the Strength Mods apply directly, So let's say I put 200% Str on my Revenant, does that mean that I get 50 blocks. 

So what I believe is that kills from your Thralls and pillars should add a stack to your skin and caping at 50 or 60. This cap can be upgraded by ability range. Heck, Every 5 kills with DISCO PAR- I mean danse macabre, should give you a stack and that number cannot be changed by any states. 

I love the Rest of the Ideas 

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9 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

I can see the death-drone working under one condition: They don't block the thrall cap. If you have 7 drones and then create a thrall, the oldest drone dies/despawns. This way, they don't interfere with the ability's synergy with Reave or Danse Macabre.

Overall this is a good idea as it both preserves the current Enthrall mechanic while still providing minions if they get killed by you or your teammates.

hey thats a great idea! a really good stipulation for the change that would make it less clunky to use. i like it!

 

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