Valkyr Rework Concept

[weeaboopotato]

Valkyr Rework

• Honestly Valkyr herself is already good but what she does lack is AoE. She has survivability, she has cc, she can support other people's dps. However she is mainly single target which does not work in a horde shooter at all. All she really needs is a couple of buffs and be able to damage more people at once. Making her fit more into a horde shooter allowing her to actually hit the hordes.

passive
-After casting an ability your next melee will deal damage to everything around you adding 5m to your melee strike and heal for 20% of the damage.

• This passive gives synergy to her whole kit incentivising to use all abilities. This is honestly all she needs. She just needs a reason to use all her abilities. Rip line can be good if its used to do something else. Paralysis can also be used if it could actually empower anything. War cry to be more than just a buff. Hysteria well to be more of a hysteria. Keeping valkyr's gameplay while also empowering it.

1)Rip line
-Still the same but no longer cost energy and no longer pulls enemies to you and only pulls you to enemies. 

• Pulling 1 enemy is honestly useless its better to pull yourself towards many enemies rather than one. 

2)War cry
-Automatically proc your passive meleeing everything around you on cast. Other than that, there are no changes to war cry.

3)Paralysis
-Still the same but increase the range of your next passive proc by 50%.

4)Hysteria
-no changes.

[maycne.sonahoz]

2 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

After casting an ability your next melee will deal damage to everything around you adding 5m to your melee strike and heal for 20% of the damage.

I only see Rip Line and Paralysis actually benefiting from this:
- Warcry is a duration based ability, so you can't spam it
- Hysteria is a channeled ability, so you will likely keep it active as long as necessary instead of spamming it

But then, by purposely giving more focus to use abilities, you also reduce the increase speed of your combo count, and thus the efficiency of builds made around it.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

Honestly Valkyr herself is already good

Laughs in paralysis

Jk shes good but like an inch away from perfection

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

passive
-After casting an ability your next melee will deal damage to everything around you adding 5m to your melee strike and heal for 20% of the damage.

• This passive gives synergy to her whole kit incentivising to use all abilities. This is honestly all she needs. She just needs a reason to use all her abilities. Rip line can be good if its used to do something else. Paralysis can also be used if it could actually empower anything. War cry to be more than just a buff. Hysteria well to be more of a hysteria. Keeping valkyr's gameplay while also empowering it.

This sounds lovely! Good point!

Her current passive still nice though, i think it should be added to warcry just so it isnt lost

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

Rip line
-Still the same but no longer cost energy and no longer pulls enemies to you and only pulls you to enemies. 

• Pulling 1 enemy is honestly useless its better to pull yourself towards many enemies rather than one. 

So true though, might i suggest this add to her combo counter too? Maybe give her like 1 combo count per meter(m) traveled to an enemy? That way its better to use than just a normal slide attack or bullet jump

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

2)War cry
-Automatically proc your passive meleeing everything around you on cast. Other than that, there are no changes to war cry.

Agreed

- but add her old passive to this

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

Paralysis
-Still the same but increase the range of your next passive proc by 50%

I mean the ability is alright but boy is the animation ugly. I think it would be much cooler if it was some sort of claw attack that quickly stunned enemies infront of her as opposed to.......... idk what the heck to call her current move????

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

Hysteria
-no changes

More damage imo, and it should build her combo counter extremely fast

Slide, airborne, and heavy attacks could consume the combo mult for massive damage

 

Aside from all of that though, i like the rework :)

[weeaboopotato]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

think it would be much cooler if it was some sort of claw attack that quickly stunned enemies

wait i thought it did stun cause the ability description said so.

[weeaboopotato]

3 hours ago, maycne.sonahoz said:

- Warcry is a duration based ability, so you can't spam it
- Hysteria is a channeled ability, so you will likely keep it active as long as necessary instead of spamming it

Warcry isn't meant to be spammed, the idea was to keep her alive as she cast war cry cause the animation do be hefty. Hysteria will actually benefit from this cause her current issue is she has too low range and has little to no gap closers besides parkour and the gimmick her ripline currently has. Plus from how melee weapons work, her passive will scale off Hysteria. plus ripline's cast animation is almost non existant and paralysis is mainly a panic button. Not exactly something you want to spam unless you dont want shields at all. This will make ripline valkyr's main damage tool and gap closer. While also eliminating the use for that valkyr augment that makes her jump on enemies. 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

13 minutes ago, weeaboopotato said:

wait i thought it did stun cause the ability description said so.

I was talking about animation

[keikogi]

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

1)Rip line
-Still the same but no longer cost energy and no longer pulls enemies to you and only pulls you to enemies. 

• Pulling 1 enemy is honestly useless its better to pull yourself towards many enemies rather than one. 

I do think the skill also has problems with it's speed. When you cast it on a enemy it should be like this

Like rip line being way faster and landing a guaranteed wall attack.

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

After casting an ability your next melee will deal damage to everything around you adding 5m to your melee strike and heal for 20% of the damage.

• This passive gives synergy to her whole kit incentivising to use all abilities. This is honestly all she needs. She just needs a reason to use all her abilities. Rip line can be good if its used to do something else. Paralysis can also be used if it could actually empower anything. War cry to be more than just a buff. Hysteria well to be more of a hysteria. Keeping valkyr's gameplay while also empowering

Personally I think bonus melee range would be better so it's an actual empire attack intead of shockwave. To prevent degenerate nonsense with a no animation lock helminth skill just add a 3 seconds ms buff to work as cd.

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

2)War cry
-Automatically proc your passive meleeing everything around you on cast. Other than that, there are no changes to war cry.

3)Paralysis
-Still the same but increase the range of your next passive proc by 50%.

I would also add their cast time is horrid and should be reduced or at least make valkir invulnerable during the cast. 

6 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

4)Hysteria
-no changes.

Personally I feel like it has a terrible stance( lack of foward momentum and low range ).Despite it having an amazing slide attack. I would suggest either adding the entrati claw enlarging mechanics or changing the stance 

[weeaboopotato]

12 minutes ago, keikogi said:

would also add their cast time is horrid and should be reduced or at least make valkir invulnerable during the cast. 

The reason why I made the passive like that which you should know heals valkyr, to make it so she doesn't die when its being cast due to its atrociously long animation.

 

14 minutes ago, keikogi said:

Personally I feel like it has a terrible stance( lack of foward momentum and low range ).Despite it having an amazing slide attack. I would suggest either adding the entrati claw enlarging mechanics or changing the stance 

That's where the ripline changes and passive comes in. Since my changes to ripline make it so not only is it spammable but cost no energy while also giving her the mobility she lacks, Her passive also giving her more range.  Makes it so that isn't a problem. 

[Enderman20]

10 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

2)War cry
-Automatically proc your passive meleeing everything around you on cast. Other than that, there are no changes to war cry.

Quick question, why. Valkyr's 2nd ability is the only one that shouldn't be changed in my opinion, it gives a massive increase in armor, melee attack speed (which goes in love and accord with 4th), and reduces the speed of enemies (useless but oh well).

10 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

1)Rip line
-Still the same but no longer cost energy and no longer pulls enemies to you and only pulls you to enemies. 

 

This is nice, but it would be even better if on arrival, valkyr automatically performed an attack with his claws, with damage that automatically scales based on how his claws are modded.

[weeaboopotato]

4 hours ago, Enderman20 said:

Quick question, why. Valkyr's 2nd ability is the only one that shouldn't be changed in my opinion, it gives a massive increase in armor, melee attack speed (which goes in love and accord with 4th), and reduces the speed of enemies (useless but oh well).

Its still the same war cry that does that now with the added benefit of automatically procing your passive. 

 

4 hours ago, Enderman20 said:

This is nice, but it would be even better if on arrival, valkyr automatically performed an attack with his claws, with damage that automatically scales based on how his claws are modded.

That's what the passive is for. 

[(XBOX)XLambentZerkerX]

As someone who also mains Valk, here are my thoughts on any rework.

 

Ripline is hot garbage IMO, with the introduction of Helminth it's gone from every build for me. If it was made to be a gap closer, as you've mentioned, it would be more viable for sure. But this is somewhat covered by one of Hysterias augments, can't think of the name right off. Instead our changing it, replace it with "leap" ability that has a ground slam AOE centered on the target. 

Warcry is fine as is, but if you were to buff it I would have the "slow" that enemies receive initially follow you as an aura, but be capped at a lower percentage so you didn't essentislly become a mobile Slova.

Paralysis is a good ability, but no one uses it because no one builds Valkyr with shields. By the time you get surrounded with the opportunity to use it, you have no shields. Change this to use a percentage of health instead, maybe tweak it a little. 

Hysteria is fine as is IMO, but with the addition of the Ripline replacement you wouldn't need the aforementioned argument. Maybe add something new to give it a little more razzle dazzle. 

 

On an off topic, I think DE should add an additional slot on frames for augments specifically. I know I could work wonders with Eternal War not taking up a slot. 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

12 hours ago, Enderman20 said:

it gives a massive increase in armor

Keep in mind Valkyr already has high armor to begin with, so the armor you get from Warcry is heavily impacted by diminishing returns. This doesn't help weaker allies that much either since even a 100% increase to a frame with 125 armor will only give you 250 armor. So Warcry is only really giving you the attack speed and the initial slow, and while the speed is certainly nice, it's hard to justify the 75 energy cost that you have to spend on recasts if you don't use the augment. Personally, I'd like Warcry to give flat armor values, cost 50 energy, and be recastable, to use the slow for something.

[(XBOX)XLambentZerkerX]

43 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Keep in mind Valkyr already has high armor to begin with, so the armor you get from Warcry is heavily impacted by diminishing returns. This doesn't help weaker allies that much either since even a 100% increase to a frame with 125 armor will only give you 250 armor. So Warcry is only really giving you the attack speed and the initial slow, and while the speed is certainly nice, it's hard to justify the 75 energy cost that you have to spend on recasts if you don't use the augment. Personally, I'd like Warcry to give flat armor values, cost 50 energy, and be recastable, to use the slow for something.

Even adding only 100% armor in the instance of 125 base becoming 250, the ally would still experience a damage reduction increase from ~29% to ~45%. 

In terms of energy cost I feel it's justified for that, especially if you use the augment. Pop it once and unless you hit a nullifier bubble or fall through the map, you're golden. This goes into my suggestion at the end, off topic, that augments should have their own slot in the config. If it did, in my case as an example, my 45% efficiency from Blind Rage could be offset by being able to run my current build and add Primed Flow. 

As for your recast bit that also could take into account my suggestion that the Warcry slow follow you as an aura, constantly affecting vs just the initial area

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

In terms of energy cost I feel it's justified for that, especially if you use the augment. Pop it once and unless you hit a nullifier bubble or fall through the map, you're golden. This goes into my suggestion at the end, off topic, that augments should have their own slot in the config. If it did, in my case as an example, my 45% efficiency from Blind Rage could be offset by being able to run my current build and add Primed Flow. 

Augments are usually just flat upgrades to your ability (very rarely are they sidegrades), so adding an augment slot doesn't make sense when augments are of equal value to stat mods. The reason we have an exilus slot is because exilus mods, being mostly QoL, aren't powerful enough to compete with stat mods for the same space, so giving them a slot keeps them relevant. If Eternal War is powerful enough to make Warcry significantly better, it clearly doesn't have issues competing with normal stat mods, and adding an augment slot would just give you room for another stat mod.

Also, having a weak damage reduction buff (that only applies to health), a good attack speed buff, and an ineffective slow with a cooldown doesn't seem to justify spending 25 more energy than the typical buff ability. Maybe if all 3 parts of this ability were good it'd be worth it, but not when the attack speed is the only good portion of the ability. The augment doesn't justify the 75 energy, because we design augments around the abilities, not the reverse.

[(XBOX)XLambentZerkerX]

44 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

If Eternal War is powerful enough to make Warcry significantly better, it clearly doesn't have issues competing with normal stat mods, and adding an augment slot would just give you room for another stat mod.

But in your own words, Warcry as is isn't effective enough and needs a hypothetical rework. That would mean the augment is arguably useless, and would be a form a QoL right? 

I personally feel it's a great ability, but I also go through 90% of gameplay using melee as my preference.

Even if DE did add an augment specific slot, they could always put a handicap on it of sorts to affect ability synergies that would be game breaking, much like with the Helminth system they nerfed a few abilities to keep the original frames relevant. This could ensure that it remained a QoL and not just another power squeeze. 

You also have to think, not all players use augments in their builds. In this case we're only discussing Valkyr alone

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

53 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

But in your own words, Warcry as is isn't effective enough and needs a hypothetical rework. That would mean the augment is arguably useless, and would be a form a QoL right? 

In my opinion, Warcry as a base ability is bad. Eternal War is a large boost to Warcry's performance, since it allows for unlimited duration, and duration mods obviously are not QoL. The prerequisite to gain duration doesn't make this less of a duration mod, just as Argon Scope is still a non-exilus crit mod. I don't believe this makes Warcry a good ability, but it's certainly a lot better, and the augment isn't arguably useless at all. If we were to rework Warcry, we design the new Warcry, then we design the new Eternal War afterwards if it doesn't fit the new design.

53 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

You also have to think, not all players use augments in their builds. In this case we're only discussing Valkyr alone

And this is why we do not need specific augment slots. Augments are a choice the player needs to make when modding. It is great that sometimes people ignore augments on a frame because they do not feel like it fits their build. If we had a specific augment slot, I'd just toss on an augment anyway because "why not?", which makes for less interesting modding. Some decisions are easier to make, such as putting Chromatic Blade on Excal, but even in those circumstances, the fact that it's an easy decision supports the position that augments should compete with normal mods for space.

[weeaboopotato]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

Ripline is hot garbage IMO, with the introduction of Helminth it's gone from every build for me. If it was made to be a gap closer, as you've mentioned, it would be more viable for sure. But this is somewhat covered by one of Hysterias augments, can't think of the name right off. Instead our changing it, replace it with "leap" ability that has a ground slam AOE centered on the target. 

the purpose of this is so the hysteria augment wont be needed cause remember augments use up a mod slot. 

[weeaboopotato]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

Even adding only 100% armor in the instance of 125 base becoming 250, the ally would still experience a damage reduction increase from ~29% to ~45%.

Personally i think the armor buff is sort of useless considering hysteria makes you invunerable.

[weeaboopotato]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

And this is why we do not need specific augment slots. Augments are a choice the player needs to make when modding. It is great that sometimes people ignore augments on a frame because they do not feel like it fits their build. If we had a specific augment slot, I'd just toss on an augment anyway because "why not?", which makes for less interesting modding. Some decisions are easier to make, such as putting Chromatic Blade on Excal, but even in those circumstances, the fact that it's an easy decision supports the position that augments should compete with normal mods for space.

That's the thing though. If augments are basically only buffs to the ability, then why make it an augment instead of an actual functionality of the ability. While the augments that actually do change how an ability works or are gimmicky most of the times, gets left in the dumpster. This is why augment slots should be a thing. Not only will it leave more room in your builds, but it will also give the more gimmicky and ability altering augments some play.

[(XBOX)XLambentZerkerX]

13 hours ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

In my opinion, Warcry as a base ability is bad. Eternal War is a large boost to Warcry's performance, since it allows for unlimited duration, and duration mods obviously are not QoL. The prerequisite to gain duration doesn't make this less of a duration mod, just as Argon Scope is still a non-exilus crit mod. I don't believe this makes Warcry a good ability, but it's certainly a lot better, and the augment isn't arguably useless at all. If we were to rework Warcry, we design the new Warcry, then we design the new Eternal War afterwards if it doesn't fit the new design.

And this is why we do not need specific augment slots. Augments are a choice the player needs to make when modding. It is great that sometimes people ignore augments on a frame because they do not feel like it fits their build. If we had a specific augment slot, I'd just toss on an augment anyway because "why not?", which makes for less interesting modding. Some decisions are easier to make, such as putting Chromatic Blade on Excal, but even in those circumstances, the fact that it's an easy decision supports the position that augments should compete with normal mods for space.

Ah I gotcha, I misunderstood how you felt about EW. Not gonna argue that Warcry in general could use a bit of a buff, but overall I feel like it's about 90% perfect. The speed boosts are great, I like the additional armor, the slow is all I mentioned really changing.

But you are right about the augment slots, to be honest its more of a pipe dream to get it. If all else I think it'd be cool to have.

[(XBOX)XLambentZerkerX]

8 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

Personally i think the armor buff is sort of useless considering hysteria makes you invunerable.

I personally don't run Hysteria as my primary ability as is, it's my last resort. I use Warcry obviously as I mentioned somewhere I use my melee almost always over anything, even in Steel Path. Even in SP I only ever get nuked occasionally by Corrupt Bombards when I'm not paying attention

 

8 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

the purpose of this is so the hysteria augment wont be needed cause remember augments use up a mod slot. 

While this is true, and I'm more on board for an augment slot itself, the Hysteria augment in question fits on the Exilius slot doesn't it? The only downside to this is that you have to be using Hysteria to get the gap closer.

Replacing Ripline altogether with my hypothetical ability would make her gameplay more mobile and fun, while also fitting on her kit pretty well IMO. I just don't like being Spiderman lmao

[(XBOX)XLambentZerkerX]

On 2/5/2021 at 12:33 AM, weeaboopotato said:

passive
-After casting an ability your next melee will deal damage to everything around you adding 5m to your melee strike and heal for 20% of the damage.

• This passive gives synergy to her whole kit incentivising to use all abilities. This is honestly all she needs. She just needs a reason to use all her abilities. Rip line can be good if its used to do something else. Paralysis can also be used if it could actually empower anything. War cry to be more than just a buff. Hysteria well to be more of a hysteria. Keeping valkyr's gameplay while also empowering it.

I had a thought rereading this. What if we took the concept for Gauss, Ember, Baruuk, Protea etc, and applied it to Valkyr? 

Each ability cast adds "Rage" to her meter. Casting the same ability more than twice in a row will give diminishing "Rage" to avoid senseless ability spamming, make people change it up. Rework Ripline and Paralysis still, maybe buff Warcrys slow. 

But when the Rage meter fills, make it do... something. That's kinda where I trail off. The melee burst is a decent idea IMO, but I feel like the heal and range are a bit much. Especially considering the crazy damage the melee META can put out.

Maybe have it give a buff similar to Arcane Fury, a flat damage increase for X amount of seconds.

Or maybe have it store the damage on the next melee attack and disperse it as a percentage buff. To what? No idea, maybe just melee damage again 🤷‍♂️

Or just have it straight up empower the next ability like Protea does

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

22 hours ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

I just don't like being Spiderman lmao

Lol it was a weird design choice

I think someone was thinking of catwoman from batman a little bit when making her, and didnt really realize how catwomans whip doesnt fit a cat at all lol, let alone a beserker

Id be cool if her 1st abilty was simply a powerful agility boost that gave her fast jump speed that deals damage to enemies nearby her landing zone, make her roll ability trigger an attack if it comes in contact with an enemy, give her infinite wall latch ability, etc

Channeled or duration based ability

So that she turns into what would appear to be an apex preadotor agility wise

[(XBOX)XLambentZerkerX]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

Id be cool if her 1st abilty was simply a powerful agility boost that gave her fast jump speed that deals damage to enemies nearby her landing zone, make her roll ability trigger an attack if it comes in contact with an enemy, give her infinite wall latch ability, etc

My thoughts on her 1 are pretty much the same. I think it should be a targeted leap attack with an AOE damage on contact.

I feel like that roll idea would be spammed a little, but interesting thought. 

Wall latch however I barely, if ever, use. Gotta think if she had infinite WL that would make opening Rivens with the Challenge more trivial than they already are 

40 minutes ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

So that she turns into what would appear to be an apex preadotor agility wise

I feel that she should be more of menacing presence than an apex predator. While I enjoy her already mildly boosted agility, when I think Berserker I imagine the typical Nord whose doing good on the field but getting a little messed up. You see them pop that "berserker" magic and their strength grows tenfold, maybe not that they start running around like a crackhead lol

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

50 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

My thoughts on her 1 are pretty much the same. I think it should be a targeted leap attack with an AOE damage on contact.

Yea but this is just 1 thing, i think it should be a high multiude of different things. Her rip line offered a fun mobility playstyle and tried to offer combat use, so i feel if her 1 were to change then it should be more than a leap too

50 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

feel like that roll idea would be spammed a little, but interesting thought. 

Its meant to

50 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

Wall latch however I barely, if ever, use. Gotta think if she had infinite WL that would make opening Rivens with the Challenge more trivial than they already are

I honestly dont care about riven challenges enough. If you want there to be no challenge, work to unlock valk, if you dont want challenge, dont get or use valk

Thats how much i care about riven challenges lol

I barely ever use wall latch too but meh, threw it in there just cause it makes sense for her to be able to do.

50 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

feel that she should be more of menacing presence than an apex predator

Thats already Garuda's thing? She delivers a menacing presence like no other warframe can. Her presenace lingers too, the pools of blood, impaled enemies, and spikes that would likely be found in the aftermath of a battle with Garuda???

Seeing that alone would make you second guess ever even meeting Garuda!

Especially when one of those impaled corpes weakly blinks at you

50 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

when I think Berserker I imagine the typical Nord whose doing good on the field but getting a little messed up. You see them pop that "berserker" magic and their strength grows tenfold, maybe not that they start running around like a crackhead lol

Think "Hulk"

Think "The Lion King" were Simba's father beats up a pack of hyenas that were after his son

Think "Venom"

Beserker never holds back in the way you speak of, its all or nothing to them. When they start to get a "little hurt", its because theyre actually losing

Tricksters are more known for not giving their all. Think the warframe loki with savior decoy. Or maybe our peace asking warframe Baruuk.

They are not beserkers, they hold back