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Valkyr Rework Concept


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17 minutes ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

Yea but this is just 1 thing, i think it should be a high multiude of different things. Her rip line offered a fun mobility playstyle and tried to offer combat use, so i feel if her 1 were to change then it should be more than a leap too

Its meant to

I honestly dont care about riven challenges enough. If you want there to be no challenge, work to unlock valk, if you dont want challenge, dont get or use valk

Thats how much i care about riven challenges lol

I barely ever use wall latch too but meh, threw it in there just cause it makes sense for her to be able to do.

Thats already Garuda's thing? She delivers a menacing presence like no other warframe can. Her presenace lingers too, the pools of blood, impaled enemies, and spikes that would likely be found in the aftermath of a battle with Garuda???

Seeing that alone would make you second guess ever even meeting Garuda!

Especially when one of those impaled corpes weakly blinks at you

Think "Hulk"

Think "The Lion King" were Simba's father beats up a pack of hyenas that were after his son

Think "Venom"

Beserker never holds back in the way you speak of, its all or nothing to them. When they start to get a "little hurt", its because theyre actually losing

Tricksters are more known for not giving their all. Think the warframe loki with savior decoy. Or maybe even Baruuk.

They hold back

I was in the middle of replying and I refreshed the page on accident, so heres one big reply lol

With her 1 I agree, I would like to see it do multiple things. Maybe make it a charged ability instead, not targeted. You tap it and Valk automatically leaps in the direction you're pointing for X amount of energy for mobility only use, and have the charge open up almost a grenade-like aim with a landing area highlighted that shows what you'll damage. Make the charged cost like, 1.5x the base cost or something like that.

This is true about Garuda, but I like to think Valkys has a different kind of menacing. Like.. example in "Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans," Barbatos in the final fight scene of Season 2, is the vibe I would strive for. Valk already touches on this, but it doesn't feel like it carries the amount of thrill. (If you're not into Gundam or haven't seen IBO, very good, I'd recommend it)

24 minutes ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

Especially when one of those impaled corpes weakly blinks at you

I had to quote this correctly, I died laughing. Funnily enough, I run Valkyr with a Blood Altar build for kicks 

For Venom and Hulk, good comparison, I hadn't thought about that. But I get what you mean about holding back, this is true. But we can't just have a frame go super OP on a whim, there has to be balance. I'd actually talked about (and read, I'm not the first) before giving Valkyr a mechanic similar to Baruuk, Ember, Gauss etc. Give her a "Rage" meter that fills based on ability usage, damage taken, etc, but I never came to a good point of what it could do that wouldn't be ridiculously overpowered 

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

but I never came to a good point of what it could do that wouldn't be ridiculously overpowered 

How about a buff to all damage, ability range, melee range, ability cast speed, and energy efficency

The rage meter should be different from baruuk where the objective isnt to drain it, or like ember where you try to keep it from being maxed. For valk it will be to keep it maxed!

Basically the rage meter would keep growing as you get kills and hit multiple enemies with abilities. The rage meter would also have a constant drain meaning you need to keep attacking to keep it filled

To keep the bonus from the meter from lasting too long, the drain could increase in intensity the longer the meter stays over 50% filled, and it resets when it falls back to 50%

This creates incentive to truely unleash the beast and not be overpowered at whim. The 50% rule also keeps the player from being too heavily punnished from not going beserk enough to allow for more reckless behaivor

 

Edited by (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII
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28 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

Give her a "Rage" meter that fills based on ability usage, damage taken, etc, but I never came to a good point of what it could do that wouldn't be ridiculously overpowered 

Baruuk already has a rage meter that fills on ability usage, and technically damage taken if you use your 1. I think we have a game mechanic that exists that we can incorporate into Valkyr's kit that fits right into her theme, and we don't need to copy Baruuk. We have the melee combo counter, and barely any Warframe interactions with it, outside of Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds/Gladiator set affecting exalted abilities. 

Valkyr could have abilities that benefit the combo counter, or benefit from the combo counter in more ways than just Hysteria dealing more damage.

Off the top of my head, Warcry could grant combo hits based on the enemies slowed on cast. Paralysis could sacrifice some of your combo to grant a short healing over time buff equal to 50% of your combo before cast (12x combo being 110hp/s). Something like that.

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3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

We have the melee combo counter, and barely any Warframe interactions with it, outside of Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds/Gladiator set affecting exalted abilities. 

So true though

But i was debating on if that should be put on valk or Excalibur cause i could imagine it being epic on excal i mean man

Its a ridiculously fun idea none the less

Edited by (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII
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1 minute ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

So true though

But i was debating on if that should be put on valk or Excalibur cause i could imagine it being epic on excal i mean man

I'd like Excal to be buffed, but I think he shouldn't have any theme or weird mechanics to him, since he's THE beginner Warframe. He is a starter, so his abilities should be flexible and simple.

Good buff to incorporate the combo counter for Excal would be to allow the Exalted Blade projectiles to gain combo, or at least maintain it. 

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37 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Baruuk already has a rage meter that fills on ability usage, and technically damage taken if you use your 1. I think we have a game mechanic that exists that we can incorporate into Valkyr's kit that fits right into her theme, and we don't need to copy Baruuk. We have the melee combo counter, and barely any Warframe interactions with it, outside of Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds/Gladiator set affecting exalted abilities.

I was using "Rage" in quotation just to establish the general idea, but I do see your point. The Combo Counter idea is something else I never considered, it would be almost like incorporating the Heavy Attack mechanic into her directly. That's a neat take on it

 

50 minutes ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

How about a buff to all damage, ability range, melee range, ability cast speed, and energy efficency

I feel like melee range, damage and ability efficiency would be a good take on it. It would need to have a limit though, can only proc once per X amount of time and so forth

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49 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

feel like melee range, damage and ability efficiency would be a good take on it. It would need to have a limit though, can only proc once per X amount of time and so forth

Nah, thats ember

The limit is constant drainage already

If you really feel like thered be too much spam id be okay with the spam cooldown rule found in Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. Just no to single use like Ember or Lavos

Edited by (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII
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Through a series of discussions on this post and another, I feel like this is an interesting (updated) concept. Not all ideas shown are my own. 

"Bloodlust" passive: (subject to change)

-The higher Valkyrs combo multiplier, she gains X amount of additional Melee range, Critical Damage(?), Critical Chance and Lifesteal(?)

Ripline Replacement: (subject to change)

-Change to "Meteor Leap"(?).
-Tap to leap forward X meters in an arc, enemies struck are staggered.
-Charge for 1.5x energy cost, activates aiming reticle (grenade throw style with landing area shown). Does X amount of AoE damage at landing, knocks enemies down.
-AoE damage set at base amount X, but affected by melee weapon aspects (similar to Khoras Whip)

Warcry buff/change:
-Initial slow now capped at X%, now follows as an aura around Valkyr beginning at X range while slowly decreasing to X minimum range. Min and Max affected by Range. Can be recast.

Paralysis change:
-No longer uses shields, instead uses a % of HP (still costs energy to cast). Affected by efficiency.

Hysteria change:
-No longer drains energy (still needed to cast), instead drains HP at a scaling amount (similar to current energy scaling). Will automatically deactivate if HP falls below 25%. Lifesteal removed due to passive Lifesteal buff if approved. If passive LS buff not approved, amount reduced significantly to prevent continuous Hysteria.
-Can cast "Meteor Leap"(?) without interrupting Hysteria.

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On 2021-02-07 at 5:42 AM, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

While this is true, and I'm more on board for an augment slot itself, the Hysteria augment in question fits on the Exilius slot doesn't it? The only downside to this is that you have to be using Hysteria to get the gap closer.

Replacing Ripline altogether with my hypothetical ability would make her gameplay more mobile and fun, while also fitting on her kit pretty well IMO. I just don't like being Spiderman lmao

You are taken out of hysteria's invunerability when you try to aim with hysteria to use the augment its really bad, there was a recent change where it gives you 0.5 seconds of invunerability when you attempt to do this but it still gives you a window to get onshotted by

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On 2021-02-08 at 5:53 AM, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

Yea but this is just 1 thing, i think it should be a high multiude of different things. Her rip line offered a fun mobility playstyle and tried to offer combat use, so i feel if her 1 were to change then it should be more than a leap too

i already did something to make it so ripline would be more useable, rather than leaping up in the air and landing where the enemies are, it instead directly takes you to the enemies. Always launching yourself towards them rather than pulling a single enemy. This gives it more versatility, although a speed boost or a leap would sound cool, ripline no matter how useless it is. It's embedded in her design and is quiet signature to her. 

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On 2021-02-07 at 1:42 PM, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

I had a thought rereading this. What if we took the concept for Gauss, Ember, Baruuk, Protea etc, and applied it to Valkyr? 

Each ability cast adds "Rage" to her meter. Casting the same ability more than twice in a row will give diminishing "Rage" to avoid senseless ability spamming, make people change it up. Rework Ripline and Paralysis still, maybe buff Warcrys slow. 

But when the Rage meter fills, make it do... something. That's kinda where I trail off. The melee burst is a decent idea IMO, but I feel like the heal and range are a bit much. Especially considering the crazy damage the melee META can put out.

Maybe have it give a buff similar to Arcane Fury, a flat damage increase for X amount of seconds.

Or maybe have it store the damage on the next melee attack and disperse it as a percentage buff. To what? No idea, maybe just melee damage again 🤷‍♂️

Or just have it straight up empower the next ability like Protea does

I have thought about a rage meter mechanic that would increase valkyr's damage and ability as she's in combat and would decay when out of combat. However; I had to consider how big of a change that would make to her kit. I didn't want to overhaul valkyr, I only wanted to rework her kit. 

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So, also a Valkyr main, I noticed there is mention of a rage meter powering her abilites. Technically we do have that, it is called energy with the rage mod. The more damage you take, the more your energy is refunded fueling your abilities. you also have fast health regen with hysteria currently and invulnerability that can be toggled off by aiming. As a berserker concept, I think we should keep to the concept of charging in to battle without worry knowing that whatever we lose, we know we can get back. I do believe that valkyr's kit is good, just needs a couple tweaks.

Passive:

Add an inbuilt rage mod, 40% of damage taken turns into energy. Personally keep the faster knockdown recovery as a qol passive.

Ripline:

Make it pull you in a direction and melee enemies in your way with your claws. Similar to rhino's charge or excal's slash dash but will melee enemies not ragdoll them and build combo counter. 

Hold will have the current functionality of "spidermaning" and pulling enemies

Warcry:

Remove slow effect

Paralysis:

Add slow effect from Warcry

Hysteria:

Change the death aura that shrinks with kills but expands over time to be a changing melee range, the more you kill, the smaller it grows, but if you slow down, your melee range grows.

Reasons:

This does tailor more to my playstyle where I dont actually mod efficiency or energy max. I rely on hunter's adrenaline to keep me going. if I run low on energy, I switch to my guns and take a couple of hits of damage, then I switch back to hysteria and keep fighting. It plays heavily into the berserker theme where getting hit makes me get up and keep fighting. Also, having this a passive (which fits thematically) would free up a slot in the rest of the build

Ripline was mentioned before by others to have a melee attack at either the target or along the path so there is little debate there. However, I doubt a removal of energy cost would be needed though with the new passive.

Warcry is a good ability and is useful as both a team boost and self boost, although armor is diminishing returns. But the slow is rarely used since the ability is not really spammable.

Paralysis is more powerful than people give it credit, it is a cheap cast cost (5 energy at base) and the amount of shields used does not matter unless you are using it for damage. It opens enemies up to finishers cheaper than inaros' dessication and has a 360 degree effect. For those worried about losing shields, remember that you dont really want shields for rage to proc and finishers will give you invulnerability during the animation. Since it is more spammable than Warcry and is a more localized ability than Ripline, it is a perfect candidate to add the slow effect from Warcry.

Hysteria does have an odd feeling stance but hopefully that can be fixed with Ripline synergy. But to combat the issue of range, repurposing the death aura to be a range modification to your claws would make it a more ebb and flow balancing gameplay similar to the inbuilt rage where if you are not killing fast enough, your range increases to kill more, until you kill enough that the range wears out. This would make valkyr that more volatile berserker that rewards you for taking risks knowing the prize is worth it.

Edited by d0n41dth3gr34t
added ripline hold mechanic
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9 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

I have thought about a rage meter mechanic that would increase valkyr's damage and ability as she's in combat and would decay when out of combat. However; I had to consider how big of a change that would make to her kit. I didn't want to overhaul valkyr, I only wanted to rework her kit. 

That's why we'd discussed it afterwards, and (IMO) determined that a passive based on the Combo Multipier would be a better fit. Again, not my idea, but a good one.

 

9 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

You are taken out of hysteria's invunerability when you try to aim with hysteria to use the augment its really bad, there was a recent change where it gives you 0.5 seconds of invunerability when you attempt to do this but it still gives you a window to get onshotted by

This is why I looked for a way to implement it into her kit altogether, as the aforementioned leap ability. It would function the same, just without having to target anything to do so

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On 2021-02-07 at 6:21 PM, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

To keep the bonus from the meter from lasting too long, the drain could increase in intensity the longer the meter stays over 50% filled, and it resets when it falls back to 50%

This is actually part of hysteria's ability where the energy drain increases to a max drain which you can reset by deactivating and reactivating

also, regarding the initial proposed passive of extra damage on the next melee attack after casting abilities, I am not a fan of that. The passive is very reminiscent of mesa's ballistic battery, what is typically considered the worst ability of mesa's kit, mainly due to horde gameplay and it only affecting one enemy once. Also, Valkyr is not really considered a caster frame so having a passive more built for a caster may be too much of a departure gameplay loop wise.

Edited by d0n41dth3gr34t
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18 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

That's why we'd discussed it afterwards, and (IMO) determined that a passive based on the Combo Multipier would be a better fit. Again, not my idea, but a good one.

would it be a better idea to have the abilities themselves be increasing combo counter rather than benefiting? Combo counter by itself, outside of hysteria or with hysteria, is a very powerful aspect of melee. Having a passive boosted by combo counter would potentially detract from the kit as players would just be using valkyr for the combo counter passive boost as a stat stick with the xoris rather than her abilities. Now, if the abilities granted combo count or extended the combo window, those abilites would always be welcome and would not detract from her frame identity as a melee centric frame

Edited by d0n41dth3gr34t
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32 minutes ago, d0n41dth3gr34t said:

This is actually part of hysteria's ability where the energy drain increases to a max drain which you can reset by deactivating and reactivating

I was thinking that too, but it punnishes you in some way doesnt it?

Think you take damage for not killing everything. Honestly the top reason i stopped playing valk. Energy drain was enough, damage took the beserk out of it for me....

Go from feeling like a lion to a kitten. Terrible

Edited by (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII
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1 minute ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

I was thinking that too, but it punnishes you in some way doesnt it?

Think you take damage for not killing everything. Honestly the top reason i stopped playing valk. Energy drain was enough, damage took the beserk out of it for me....

the damage is the death aura thing where the damage you take when invulnerable is dealt back to you when you deactivate your hysteria if there is an enemy nearby within line of sight. Personally, I dont really see much of a point of it being in the kit other than trying to have a balancing aspect.

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Just now, d0n41dth3gr34t said:

the damage is the death aura thing where the damage you take when invulnerable is dealt back to you when you deactivate your hysteria if there is an enemy nearby within line of sight. Personally, I dont really see much of a point of it being in the kit other than trying to have a balancing aspect.

Yuk! and agreed

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17 minutes ago, d0n41dth3gr34t said:

would it be a better idea to have the abilities themselves be increasing combo counter rather than benefiting? Combo counter by itself, outside of hysteria or with hysteria, is a very powerful aspect of melee. Having a passive boosted by combo counter would potentially detract from the kit as players would just be using valkyr for the combo counter passive boost as a stat stick with the xoris rather than her abilities. Now, if the abilities granted combo count or extended the combo window, those abilites would always be welcome and would not detract from her frame identity as a melee centric frame

Hypothetically the benefits from a passive based on the counter would be small, we wouldn't and shouldn't be rocking a crazy 10%+ bonus to anything. I was thinking more alone the lines of "Gain ~1% bonus to Crit Chance and Damage per Combo Level, X amount to Melee Range (% based would ve difficult here, make it like +1 range at 12x or something) and the proposed Lifesteal would have to be ridiculously low. Make it like 0.5% per CLevel

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2 hours ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

I was thinking that too, but it punnishes you in some way doesnt it?

Think you take damage for not killing everything. Honestly the top reason i stopped playing valk. Energy drain was enough, damage took the beserk out of it for me....

Go from feeling like a lion to a kitten. Terrible

When you come out of Hysteria there honestly shouldn't be anything around Valk anyway, unless its something sudden like a Nullifier. You can always just bullet jump away or up too

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10 minutes ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

You can always just bullet jump away or up too

I read this as "you can just run away like a scared kitten"

It doesnt fit the theme, it looks ugly, feels ugly, kills immersion. 

If a game was released about hulk, and that was a mechanic, my god

Edited by (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII
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2 hours ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

I read this as "you can just run away like a scared kitten"

If a game was released about hulk, and that was a mechanic, my god

Hulk is also a fairly straight up brute that just uses raw power as his weapon. I'd like to think Valkyr isn't as dumb as Hulk. She would know whether it was a fight or flight situation.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said:

It doesnt fit the theme, it looks ugly, feels ugly, kills immersion. 

Are you referencing the end-of-Hysteria damage here, or my bullet jump comment? 

In all reality, if you can avoid damage by doing something, why wouldn't you? Why would you just take it on the chin?

Edited by (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX
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1 minute ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

Are you referencing the end-of-Hysteria damage here, or my bullet jump comment? 

it is referring to the end of hysteria damage, As a berserker, you want to be fighting constantly in your powered state without worry, but the damage shunts that gameplay to only use hysteria in short bursts instead so the damage is more manageable

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