DrivaMain Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 DE's Nemesis System only uses the idea from Shadow of Mordor. Ideas are not copyrighted. DE does not copy the entire system to the smallest detail so I am sure they'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract7777 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 They cannot patent protect the idea of a nemesis system. To a certain extent they can can protect the structure of their system, but only to a certain extent even on that. Because, again, you cannot patent an idea. For someone to be infringing they would have to be very clearly copying the structure in whole or in part of how they created this particular Nemesis System. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorfirebox Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 The patent only comes into effect at the end of the month. Patents aren't generally retroactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanaukas Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 22 minutes ago, motorfirebox said: The patent only comes into effect at the end of the month. Patents aren't generally retroactive. doesn't really matter. DE is not at risk of any issue because of this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, vanaukas said: ... The systems are quite different. There is no risk of legal action against DE because of WB claiming patents on the nemesis system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanaukas Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Leqesai said: The systems are quite different. There is no risk of legal action against DE because of WB claiming patents on the nemesis system... Sorry but did I state something besides quoting an already existing thread about this, wich I didn't even made or commented on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DoctorWho_90250 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, (PSN)MrHide-Patten said: Warner Bros were recently successful to get a patent of their famous Nemesis System from their Shadow of Mordor games. Now it’s no secret that the Kuva Lichs and the Briefcase wielding Corpus enemies are inspired by such a system. Can WB file a cease and desist or force DE to strip the feature from Warframe now, or is the system in Warframe legally different enough to skirt by? WB possibly can. Whether or not it would hold is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)CaligulaTwily Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 They're not really similar at all. Nemesis is far more complex, with multiple hierarchies of "liches" competing against eachother, with ability to rank up "friendly liches" within the enemy organization for different quest thingies and sabotage options and whatnot. Warframes lich system is nothing close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockscl Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 hace 1 hora, (PSN)MrHide-Patten dijo: Warner Bros were recently successful to get a patent of their famous Nemesis System from their Shadow of Mordor games. Now it’s no secret that the Kuva Lichs and the Briefcase wielding Corpus enemies are inspired by such a system. Can WB file a cease and desist or force DE to strip the feature from Warframe now, or is the system in Warframe legally different enough to skirt by? i dont think there will be a problem but still it would be kinda ridiculous and fun to see WB(tencent) trying to take something out from warframe(tencent), which makes me think that warframe wasnt at all the reason the patented their system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, vanaukas said: Sorry but did I state something besides quoting an already existing thread about this, wich I didn't even made or commented on? Nope i just like to be dramatic and/or troublesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarl5000 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Literally nothing will happen. What they patented was basically just the interactions between the orcs, the player, and other orcs. Our lich system does not have the hierarchy aspect that is critical to the patent, not even a dumbed down version that would questionable. Quote the “short” version is that the patent covers a system featuring procedurally-generated NPCs that exist in a hierarchy and interact with and will remember the actions of players, have their appearance/behavior altered by players, and whose place in that hierarchy can change and affect the position of other NPCs in said hierarchy (and yes, that’s the simplified version). IGN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Yggranya Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Hey, if it makes liches disappear, then hopefully they do. Not like they're going anywhere otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadi880 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Dunno... People were complaining that the lich system was nothing like Shadow Of Mordor. And perhaps DE purposefully did not make it like that for a reason. Dunno. I haven't played enough shadow of mordor to think what kind of game it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)SolarPhantom82 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 hours ago, (PSN)MrHide-Patten said: Warner Bros were recently successful to get a patent of their famous Nemesis System from their Shadow of Mordor games. Now it’s no secret that the Kuva Lichs and the Briefcase wielding Corpus enemies are inspired by such a system. Can WB file a cease and desist or force DE to strip the feature from Warframe now, or is the system in Warframe legally different enough to skirt by? Now that warframe is owned by the CCP ( tencent ). it's ok for them to steal IP.. so it will be fine. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlutzKick Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Bro, Does Lich System even count as one ? Pretty sure this god-awful "Nemesis" system will fly under the WB radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colyeses Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 22 minutes ago, The_Slim_Fatty said: Bro, Does Lich System even count as one ? Pretty sure this god-awful "Nemesis" system will fly under the WB radar. The issue is that WB did the scummy thing and used vague, obtuse language to broaden the patent. It apparently, in short, covers 'Any system featuring procedurally generated NPCs that exist in a hierarchy and interact with and remember the actions of the player, have their appearance/behaviour altered by players, and whose place in that hierarchy can change and affect the position of other NPCs in that hierarchy'. Yes, it's a stretch to apply this to the Kuva Liches, but WB has the cash to run a litigation campaign that can drive DE into the ground on a whim. You have to remember that any judge presiding over the case likely won't know anything about video games and won't be able to pin-point finer details. And even then, this patent is still trash for DE. Even if WB doesn't sue or doesn't have the grounds to sue, it does mean that DE cannot make the Queenpins into a better system by adding components of the nemesis system in. Having multiple Queenpins that interact among themselves and whose squabbling you can manipulate to your advantage? Well, even if DE wanted to that, now they can't. The impact of this patent for DE ranges from bad to worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlutzKick Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, Colyeses said: And even then, this patent is still trash for DE. Even if WB doesn't sue or doesn't have the grounds to sue, it does mean that DE cannot make the Queenpins into a better system by adding components of the nemesis system in. Having multiple Queenpins that interact among themselves and whose squabbling you can manipulate to your advantage? Well, even if DE wanted to that, now they can't. The impact of this patent for DE ranges from bad to worse. Damn. Fair point, i can't refute that. But still, as much as i hate WB for pulling this stunt, i/we can't do anything about it. What are we gonna do ? Boycott them ? Well i guess we need to lower down our expectation for Queenpins then. Still, it doesn't gave DE an excuses for them garbẚge Lich Nemesis System. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colyeses Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, The_Slim_Fatty said: Damn. Fair point, i can't refute that. But still, as much as i hate WB for pulling this stunt, i/we can't do anything about it. What are we gonna do ? Boycott them ? Well i guess we need to lower down our expectation for Queenpins then. Queenpins will have to be exactly as bad as Kuva Liches if there's any chance of avoiding WB's bullcrap. Even then, if WB feels like it, they can just start legal proceedings that they draw out for so long that they drain DE's coffers with legal fees. If the Queenpins get made at all, I think DE will exist purely by WB's mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_R_o_g_u_e_ Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Diablo did it years before warner bros, and Diablo wasnt even the first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Cartographer Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 The similarities between the lich system and the nemesis system are that we kill something and it creates an enemy with a few one liners that grows in power every time we fail to kill it. Liches have as much in common with the nemesis system as they do Skyrim's NPCs following a dialogue option or quest objective. Still Warner Bros can suck a big fat one, and the fossils that once again okayed patenting an idea instead of the lines of code can choke on an even bigger one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Colyeses said: If the Queenpins get made at all, I think DE will exist purely by WB's mercy. You are reading far too much into this and spreading fear when there should be none. There are so many differences between DEs system and what was patented by WB, most notably the language of the patent very specifically references a hierarchy which Lich/Queenpin systems do not have. I’ll never say never, but I will say this is incredibly unlikely to affect DE or Warframe at all. Please stop with the fearmongering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Colyeses said: Queenpins will have to be exactly as bad as Kuva Liches if there's any chance of avoiding WB's bullcrap. Even then, if WB feels like it, they can just start legal proceedings that they draw out for so long that they drain DE's coffers with legal fees. If the Queenpins get made at all, I think DE will exist purely by WB's mercy. bruh, you're coming across like this: ideas are born of free will, which is impossible to legally restrict and enforce. that's all the Lich Sytsem is: an idea that very vaguely follows a similar pattern, but for the most part is totally different from the system in SoM. I'm sure WB have much better things to do with their time and money than take a random Canadian F2P dev to court over nothing... by your logic, Activision would have sued every dev in the 2000's for making military shooters, because they made Call of Duty (which isn't even the first military shooter). dial down your paranoia, it's not healthy for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Symberzite Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Copyright trolling is an issue, but I am going to air on an optimistic side and say that WB isn't going to sue anyone that doesn't explicitly market their system as a "Nemesis" system and just tweaks their mechanics a bit. Maybe instead of liches/nemesis being in a hierarchy they are competing using territory on a map (e.g where Kuva and Granum Liches occupy the same planet the nodes turn to invasion/crossfire missions where you can pick a side). The thing about Namco and Nintendo copyrighting mechanics is that they did that back when the industry was a different place and people could't crowdfund lawsuits. That and lawyers nowadays are younger and far more tech savvy, a few probably play videogames in their spare time. WB can sue individual firms, but a bunch of other large studios adopted the model like Ubisoft. Ergo, I can see the industry firing counter lawsuits for copyright trolling should they get too cocky with their lawyers. I do find it amusing that this happened right before DE released lawyer-themed enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 4 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said: ideas are born of free will, which is impossible to legally restrict and enforce. that's all the Lich Sytsem is: an idea that very vaguely follows a similar pattern, but for the most part is totally different from the system in SoM. I'm sure WB have much better things to do with their time and money than take a random Canadian F2P dev to court over nothing... by your logic, Activision would have sued every dev in the 2000's for making military shooters, because they made Call of Duty (which isn't even the first military shooter). dial down your paranoia, it's not healthy for you. They aren't paranoid, they are being realistic. The US patent system and the way companies bring others to court can be rather ridiculous. There's a case where a movie patented the name of the car from the movie and was able to destroy a Youtuber's project car for resembling their copyrighted Mustang Fastback with a name. The whole objective with these patents is many times greed. You would like to think people just want to protect their creativity to make a living, but when it comes down to these massive companies, it's usually greed. That's just the way the world works these days. The Activision example doesn't really check out unless you can show me a patent for a military shooter. Apparently in 1982, Universal sued Nintendo for Donkey Kong being based on King Kong. Yes, of course that's silly. Doesn't mean these things don't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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