"Melee Good, Gun Bad."

[SneakyErvin]

It doesnt matter if you play an invulnerable frame or anyone else, melee still blows ranged out of the water and ranged is not OK in that setting. If they nerf melee damage it will be more balanced between the two, but right now melee is the better option to go no matter what. After that they can go on and fix the outlier frames like Inaros, Grendel, Lavos and others with high EHP that make them more or less invulnerable for hours in places like steel path.

I do however not think that ranged weapons should get buffed to rival melee, melee should be nerfed so ranged and melee are competative options while also removing alot of pointless power creep that we simply dont need. DE tried to let us get to content that wasnt so trivial quicker, yet we still need to sit for hours before things barely get interesting in endless.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

11 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

I've used the non-meta ranged weapons even in SP, and surprise, I can kill enemies with them [without Warframe buffs/debuffs]

Assuming this is referring to my last post so just to clarify, sure you can kill enemies with guns in SP, just not very quickly or efficiently like you can with guns in Sorties and under.

Without a debuffing frame I never fire my guns in SP for damage, because it’s just not worth it to do so. They’re status primers only for me.

[Sovyul]

even though i'd prefer to see a buff to guns, and IF this issue will be addressed, a nerf to melee is more likely since it doesn't require much mental input, which translates to less time, resources and the devs won't be frying their brains at the risk of creating creative gameplay

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

The devs even stated that melee is and should be the most powerful weapon a warframe has because...well, ninja.

[Citation Needed]

Also, you have no idea what Ninja are if you think they use melee near-exclusively like we do.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Il y a 3 heures, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face a dit :

At this point I don’t even know what you’re talking about. What I’m saying applies to Steel Path as well as every other game mode: red crits don’t really matter.

Take the Ceti Lacera vs the Jat Kusar for example. Both excellent blade and whips that can shred Steel Path enemies, but only the Jat Kusar can red crit due to its high innate crit chance. Does that make it better than the Ceti Lacera? No it does not, because Ceti Lacera excels in other areas such as status chance and attack speed. Both are great weapons. I hope this clears up what I mean.

Ok so anything that can spam slash damage and viral in AoE is OK ? yes I agree with that.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

This is all because primaries and secondary weapons didn't get a huge balance/buff sweep in the last several years. This is why some primaries outshine even melee while the vast majority are inferior.  

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

This is why some primaries outshine even melee 

Examples please.

[(NSW)Symberzite]

Melee weapons are fine, it's just they are much better at scaling than most ranged weapons (minus the nukor). Condition overload + Weeping wounds + Blood Rush + Berserker can pretty much melt through anything 160+

While ranged weapons are pretty strong, players that play at higher difficulties gravitate to the most optimal strategy, which is priming enemies with the nukor and then hitting them with your melee. 

The issue is the 'meta' which is that there are 'mandatory' mods which narrow the amount of gameplay styles you can try out.

[GEN-Son_17]

6 hours ago, Corvid said:

[Citation Needed]

Also, you have no idea what Ninja are if you think they use melee near-exclusively like we do.

Sure I do. Actually they functioned more as carriers but that's another story.

Melee's are silent, swift and grants full full killing potential. This is also why shurikens are fast and silent, stealth has bonuses and snipers (long range enough to be silent) carry a combo meter. All in the name of using what ninjas like best.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

On 2021-02-10 at 12:09 AM, captainHalide said:

Melee has the weeping wounds / condition overload / blood rush / power spike where ranged does not, and it offers melee the chance to gain multi-factor multiplicative damage boosts where range has flat-capped damage bonuses. 

Melee does not need a nerf.  Ranged just needs an equivalent scaling power set to keep up.

You know what’s really funny though?

You can build weapons without those mods and they STILL WORK.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

37 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

Sure I do. Actually they functioned more as carriers but that's another story.

Melee's are silent, swift and grants full full killing potential. This is also why shurikens are fast and silent, stealth has bonuses and snipers (long range enough to be silent) carry a combo meter. All in the name of using what ninjas like best.

One of the most famous Ninja, Hatori Hanzo, once assassinated a man by jumping out of a tree with two arquebus. The popular image of a ninja, being a stealthy figure, wrapped in black, wielding shuriken and Kunai is extremely falsified.

Ninja were essentially what we in the gaming sphere refer to as “rogues.” They were anything from criminals, pirates, smugglers, assassins, pit fighters etc, etc.

During the warring states period, a lot of famous ninja were used for assassinations. Completion of those assassinations was achieved by any means necessary. Guns, high explosives, poison, setting the targets house on fire, hostages etc etc.

In short, no, teenage mutant ninja turtles is not an accurate depiction of historical ninja.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

8 hours ago, Corvid said:

[Citation Needed]

Also, you have no idea what Ninja are if you think they use melee near-exclusively like we do.

They didn't use modern assault rifles and pistols with homing explosives....

Everything they used, most of these meta players would say it's not efficient or call it trash.

[LarenaBot]

Ninja also didn't use giant hammers, greatswords, chainsaw claws, electromagnetic knuckle dusters, or rapiers.

Real ninja also weren't psychic children controlling biomechanical torture victims. So the argument of "Its ninjas!" Is silly, even putting aside whether melee is overpowered or not.

 

[MqToasty]

11 hours ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I think the simple answer is that it limits player choice. If melee is overwhelmingly better than ranged then people just won’t use ranged weapons at all.

Of course guns are still perfectly viable in most content in this game, anything up to sorties at least. But when guns can barely scratch Steel Path enemies without some kind of debuff first, I’d say that’s a problem.

But again, is that a real problem?  As someone who started out going mostly melee, I still remember my rude awakening when I first ran into Sargas Ruk on Saturn.  Despite some momentary frustration, I realized why the devs made it this way and accepted it.  The game is already designed to have different tools (be it melee/ranged or different frame abilities) be meta for different content, is it necessary that ranged weapons be on an equal footing with melee weapons specifically when dealing with high-level fodder?

[MqToasty]

--snip--

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

9 hours ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Examples please.

No. Not while DE nerfs things based on usage. 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)Architect Prime:

No. Not while DE nerfs things based on usage. 

devs need to sell new content. there will always be "op" items that are difficult to obtain or need rare mats.

and i don't believe in statistics. then should bramma be nerfed again? the bow has been in the garbage can for years. I don't even know who else is playing with it. maybe people just wear it on their backs because they like the skin. lol

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

is it necessary that ranged weapons be on an equal footing with melee weapons specifically when dealing with high-level fodder?

IMO: Necessary, no.  Fun?  Hell yeah.

I wouldn't expect the equality to be perfect or universal.   But something incrementally closer to parity would be a tremendous improvement to my enjoyment  of this game.   And to me, "high-level fodder" is just way too wide a swath of Warframe to write off as the natural domain of one class of weapons. 

 

 

 

[MqToasty]

6 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

IMO: Necessary, no.  Fun?  Hell yeah.

I wouldn't expect the equality to be perfect or universal.   But something incrementally closer to parity would be a tremendous improvement to my enjoyment  of this game.   And to me, "high-level fodder" is just way too wide a swath of Warframe to write off as the natural domain of one class of weapons. 

 

 

 

Fair enough.  I can see myself being turned off by this game (or avoid some content altogether) if melee were mostly useless like in many other shooters.  We all have different preferences, and it is only natural to want more content that caters to the playstyle we prefer.

[kapn655321]

On 2021-02-09 at 3:26 PM, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

why many claim this game is dying

I've been hearing this for 7 years now.

You want to know who says it the most? Youtubers. ...So.... yeah.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

6 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

I've been hearing this for 7 years now.

You want to know who says it the most? Youtubers. ...So.... yeah.

*says it TO the most 

The people who say it the most are here on the forums, there’s a thread about I almost every week. But they have no audience, when you tubers say it, it actually gets heard.

[fo3nixz]

"Melee Good SteelPath, Gun Bad. Steelpath" 

or

"Melee Good Non SteelPath, Gun Good Non SteelPath."

 

but seriously if youtubers draw their conclusions/opinions because of steelpath idk

and seriously DE: disable taxi for people that did not unlock steelpath

[vegetosayajin]

I don't know where this trend for melee started.
Melee was the best before the melee 2.99999999999... changes, but it was for a "meta" of melee weapons, now it's just for all melee(good thing). CO was really broken before(it was good broken but alas ;/ ), now it and most mods are fairly "balanced".
The problem is that guns at least for the last 2-3 years were always bad in comparison(ttk, ammo, efficiency).Maybe before that they were the better choice (some vet can say) but for all the time I played they were not.
tl;dr melee was never a problem, it was the solution for the "guns bad" problem.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I think guns need utility buffs.  So many guns are nearly identical aside from just a handful of the stats, like damage, crit, etc.  Even just differentiating them more by varying the other stats, like giving more guns innate punchthrough would mix it up a bit and make several ever so slightly more viable.  

Aside from giving more variance the guns stat and mechanic wise, going through and buffing things like reload speed, fire rate, charge times, etc would be a fairly sizable buff just by itself.  Putting more usable things, again, like reload speed or magazine size, into the exilus category would also be a buff that would help them keep up in terms of power.  

I also have an idea about stances for guns, that would remove the need to make things like reload into exilus.  You could add more utility and unique mechanics to weapon types, letting you choose how you want the weapon to handle.  For instance:  You could have a stance for automatic rifles like the Soma, Hind, etc that would increase all handling of the weapon by just a bit.  Slightly faster reload, holster speed, move speed while aiming, etc.  You could have another stance for the same category that could add unique procs or mechanics to shots (that would not count towards CO.) like bullets seeking a new nearby target after punching through an enemy (with a limit on enemies hit).  This would encourage the AOE meta, yes.  But the game drifts further and further away from its early days of maybe actually using cover and engaging single targets and closer toward needing to wipe hoards quickly with every patch.  Another proc from a gun stance could be a short area stun instead of it being extra damage.  You could have a stance with drastically increased aim assistance, like the Gunnery 10 intrinsic.  Sky's the limit.  It would allow them to buff all guns at once with stances, and give them a separate avenue to adjust balance.  Guns that are already really strong, like most launchers, could have much less exotic and noticeable effect.  Maybe something like passive ammo regeneration at a really slow rate.  Guns that need a lot of love, like auto rifles could get some pretty crazy stuff like what I mentioned.  Weapon categories that are all over the place like beam weapons could either get middle of the road stances in terms of strength or they could redefine the categories so that weapons like the Amprex don't get the same stances as weapons like the Flux Rifle.

Melee stances are already a huge part of their strength, through extra mod capacity and then straight up extra damage and damage procs on hits.  Please take that into account before saying this sounds too OP.  Stances for guns and some utility buffs would close the power gap up by a lot.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

No. Not while DE nerfs things based on usage. 

?? What? You said some primaries outshine melee but you can’t name any? Probably because that statement is just false.