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SANSHIN (Three Strikes)


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Among a few Founders, there were principles which were agreed to.
A long time ago, 10 of us gathered to determine the most ethical way to approach and interact with other Founders, and users, in general.
In, and out of missions, our standards were an attempt to keep the community from becoming toxic.

A filter, of sorts…

It was simply called “Standards” among the small group of us, so we didn’t come up with a fancy name.
So… I will… because I love the dramatic. ^_^

This collection of ethical guidelines will be known as...

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SANSHIN
(Three Strikes)

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We will be covering the appropriate way to approach a team as a leader, or member, for various Mission Types and Social Location.

Your role on a team is to aid the team, and not yourself.
If your aim is to go off and do your own thing, perhaps you should think about playing Solo.
The number of enemies doesn’t matter. Help your team, or stay off of it.
The game types and situations that matter are the only ones that I’ll be covering, because the rest is up to personal preference.

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1 : EXTERMINATION
The goal is to kill as quickly as possible, of course. We all know this.
In a Corpus map, however, it is expected that the person leading the pack(the quickest) will disable the security cameras as they move by.
It takes half a second to shoot it, and saves the rest of your team from having to, one, and two, saves them all the frustration of bouncing off of a laser grid or turret.
This is true for every other mission type in a Corpus map, but is most troubling during Capture, Rescue, and Extermination.

(Please keep in mind that some doors will lock, in some missions, when the alarms are activate, so please, disable those if you trip them.)

2 : DEFENSE
The objective is to defend the objective, not to run about the map to leave your team-mates to defend.
Going out hunting isn’t defending, it’s going out hunting.
Being “Quicker” doesn’t matter if there is nobody watching the target, and it dies. Mission Failure.
Don’t risk the mission because you think it’s “Faster”. Restarting the mission isn’t faster.
To add, spreading the enemy loot about the map will make the people doing their job feel like they have to choose between the mission, and collecting the loot you’ve spread across the entire map.
It’s not an Extermination, it’s a Defense mission.
All of the enemies will eventually come for your target, which means you don’t need to go after them. They’re coming to you.
Going out hunting might get YOU more loot, personally, but you’re making that same loot spread across the map for everybody else.
6 more seconds of enemy travel time isn’t going to kill you.
Be patient.

3. INTERCEPTION
If there are 4 of you on a team.
There is no reason that a single node should return to enemy control.
Protect -your- letter.
The loot that drops won’t matter if the mission fails, and there is time during the “Kill all remaining enemies” phase to collect the dropped loot.
Nothing despawns, and if it’s important, like Argon, it should be marked for immediate retrieval, and the person getting it needs to return, immediately, to their defense target.

4. SURVIVAL
I was the one who personally wrote this ethical guideline, because I’ve spent most of my time doing survival missions since Beta.
As team leader (1) it is your job to determine the movement of the team.
Will you all move together through the same corridors, or will you hold out in a room.
Entering a survival mission as a team member, seeing what the team is doing, and doing the OTHER, is rude.
In most survival teams, it’s about…. Survival.
This means holding out somewhere, and letting the enemies come to you.
...or having the entire team move around as a unit so that the loot isn’t missed.
“It’s quicker.”
No… it isn’t.
After 3 years of testing, I can tell you that there is only a 1.8% difference in the amount of things gathered by running around like Rambo, or camping in a room.
...and it favors camping… not playing Rambo.

This means that the most efficient and effective way to play a survival mission, allowing the entire team to gather affinity and loot at the same rate, is to either ALL move together, or ALL stay put.
If a single member of the team does something other than that, expect a LOSS in loot over-all, not to mention the lack of shared Affinity.

You join a team playing Survival… and decide to play Extermination, Solo, on the other side of the map.
You are not helping your team, you are helping yourself.
...and if you can’t help a team, stay off of one.


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There is an appropriate response to these behaviors.
It is why the system is called “Sanshin”. Three Strikes.


First… you ask for the behavior to stop, politely.
Second… you -tell- them to stop the behavior.
Third… you leave, or ask them to.
All of this needs to be done as politely as possible.

In -any- mission, it will become increasingly difficult to complete with an obnoxious player who doesn’t belong on your team.
It will become more difficult for them to get what they want if they’re not using you to get more enemies to spawn for them.
They waste your time.
You waste theirs by leaving the mission.
It takes far less time to simply restart a mission and hope for a better team. 

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That covers mission-specific interactions.
Now, we will move on to general social interactions.
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GENERAL
The only piece of this that might remotely help, here, is asking users between MR1 and 7 if they have any questions.
Do you remember how… overwhelming this game was for YOU?
They’ve added a lot of new things since then.
If nobody is speaking in Team Chat, I don’t know I can ask questions, Regional and Q&A are a mess because of too many trolls.
As a user, it’s one thing.
As a FOUNDER, it’s expected of us.

You love this game.
We all do.

Make the game more enjoyable for other users, and they’ll make it more enjoyable for you.

It’s a game, sure, but with 2020-2021 isolating so many people, this is all the escape that some people have.
Remember that this is their time to leave the crap behind and just… enjoy themselves.


The community in Warframe IS Warframe.
The devs make moves based on OUR moves and decisions, and in turn, we do the same based on them.
...but what about each other?
When did we stop thinking about new users?
When did we stop thinking about playing on a team? ...and actually HELPING that team…

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PERSONAL NOTE


Not that any of you will or even SHOULD care… but I live with PTSD and am mostly incapable of interacting with large groups of people without… losing my mind. -_-
I helped fund this game in the beginning because what I saw of the Community and the Dev team at the time made me happy.
I felt like there might be a place where I can interact with people on my own terms, help people, and help them achieve, in-game, what they want.

I’ve lost a lot of people the last 20 years, and have gained a few new online “friends” because of Warframe.
I lost my son 14 years ago… but found some semblance of… joy… in seeing this game grow to be what it is, today.
...and I guess that’s why I’m so critical of it.

I’m honored to have helped create something that is used and enjoyed by over a million people, daily.
I might be in pain, and need to be by myself sometimes, but this community is worth the effort of forcing myself out of my comfort zone to try to help.
Just like Tennobaum. ^_^

I’m prompted to post this ‘ethical guideline’ after being back to Warframe after a short break, and seeing how… isolated… people are in-game.
Being on teams, and not interacting with one another. Like being alone in a crowd. Doing their own thing.
On a team, playing Solo.
That’s a shame…

I know… Discord is a thing… but when you don’t know somebody, and don’t have their Discord… how do you GET to know them?

This is all the social activity some people get.
I’m lucky enough to be married, and can talk my wife’s ear off, BUT… we need to come together now more than ever.
With the Dev Team being in isolation, and a bit short, and the community exploding the way it has, it’s up to US to help make this environment both sustainable, and enjoyable for all the new Tenno.

We can do better.
All of us.

We should do better.

Not just for them, but for ourselves, as well.
Keep us civil for when we CAN get back to socializing face-to-face.


I’ll… catch… you later… ;)

“Serial Killer Prime”
-SolZeroOne

 

Edited by SolZeroOne
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8 minutes ago, Phatose said:

Setting the font color that way makes your post near unreadable in the dark forum theme.

Hence why I'm not reading it all.

Door lazers aren't a problem you roll through them and watch your silly teammates get knocked on there ass. :P

57 minutes ago, SolZeroOne said:

It takes half a second to shoot it, and saves the rest of your team from having to, one, and two, saves them all the frustration of bouncing off of a laser grid or turret.
This is true for every other mission type in a Corpus map, but is most troubling during Capture, Rescue, and Extermination.

 

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People still doesn't know about how magnificent is rolling (not with rolling guard mod, just literal rolling) against almost every enemy CC attempt, including camera triggered lasers on doors?

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Ignoring the fact that black text on black background is near impossible to read and I need to highlight everything manually,

this just seems like a long-ass monologue to me.

 

Heck,

1 hour ago, SolZeroOne said:

Keep us civil for when we CAN get back to socializing face-to-face.

 

I'm an introvert, I like being unable to socialize in any form.

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Ahhh...so YOU started the whole kill as quickly as possible bolderdash that we now find the game in.

Good to know you looked at the game and DECIDED these were how we were gonna teach new players to play. Rush n Attack was a good Arcade/NES game....but Warframe can AND should be played in differeing ways for different players. 

Exterminate may be done stealth or headshots only or many other ways...this mad dash to the finish not only makes the game designers not bother putting effort into the art of stages but barely make anything worth while to find in missions. 

Intercepts are a way to allow the enemy to get 1 point back and then grab it again to get more Affinity as well. These ways you guys are playing make it that those who learn only your way, rage at others for not playing this static style. And that causes friction when they meet others and demand they do it the way they were told.

Leaders do not lead by staying rigid. They bend and weave, flow and stay calm. Congrats on finding a way that gives you control of an ever changing game but you are doing more harm than good since you are using this as a rules instead of a guide to learn and adapt with.

But that is the great thing about video games- they are games. Enjoy them , live a bit looser in Here, and go with the flow....or not

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With the last bit. If your feeling depressed you need to reach out to someone who can help you. Game forums and gamers in general are not a good support group. Though right now a lot of us are alone so I get the dump, just want it off your chest for a bit.

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I agree with most of this, except survival, that seems entirely neurotic. If I want to put together a farming group, I’ll do it in my clan or in my recruit chat. To just load into a mission and expect others to play how you want them to, is pretty ridiculous I must say.

 

Here’s my one strike system, if you load into a public game and start making demands of people, you’re the problem and should be playing solo.

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First, thank you SolZeroOne for being a founder and helping to make the game I love!

That said, I also appreciate the founders rules you folks set for yourselves back then. They're perfectly logical and are geared towards the team fun I also enjoyed when I began playing back in 2015-2016. Team chat and having fun getting the mission done well is the best feeling but, as you can see in the replies, the "chip on the shoulder" group will always take the best of intentions and twist them. Just know that some of us understand where you're coming from. 

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2 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

First, thank you SolZeroOne for being a founder and helping to make the game I love!

That said, I also appreciate the founders rules you folks set for yourselves back then. They're perfectly logical and are geared towards the team fun I also enjoyed when I began playing back in 2015-2016. Team chat and having fun getting the mission done well is the best feeling but, as you can see in the replies, the "chip on the shoulder" group will always take the best of intentions and twist them. Just know that some of us understand where you're coming from. 

Chip on the shoulder group?

Man came here to complain that people don’t play the way he wants.

All we’re doing is saying that’s fine.

But please, tell me more about how we’re the problem.

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I am not sure, who you are writing these guidelines for specifically, so I am not sure how to adequately read them. 
Most of what you are saying sounds like general protocol for missions where you want other players to play a significant part, instead of just doing as much as you personally can, in order for everyone to have fun, or for missions that might fail, if the team isn`t coordinated. Or for people who don`t know what they are doing in general. 

I will still try to comment:

 

1: Extermination:

Quote:

>In a Corpus map, however, it is expected that the person leading the pack(the quickest) will disable the security cameras as they move by.
It takes half a second to shoot it, and saves the rest of your team from having to, one, and two, saves them all the frustration of bouncing off of a laser grid or turret.<

 

I honestly tend to ignore security cameras. They mostly get destroyed in the AoE, the turrets are mostly harmless and if a grid pops up, you can just roll through it.

I will however destroy Grineer-security-doors, even after jumping straight through them, so no one else gets their energy sapped. I appreciate it every single time, other players do the same. It is only slightly annoying to me personally, but it definitely makes everyone who does that seem more considerate and competent.

 

2: Defense:

Quote:

>It’s not an Extermination, it’s a Defense mission.
All of the enemies will eventually come for your target, which means you don’t need to go after them. They’re coming to you.<

This is how it should go. But it often doesn`t.

 

In fact, it is very much an Extermination, you just have a target on your side as an additional loss-condition.

Enemies in Defenses get stuck, refuse to move, snipe or use abilities from afar or get a cc effect on them.
There are several Defenses, where (for example) Khoras Strangledome will make sure that enemies are stuck on the other side of a wall from the target and the new Corpus Defenses are often extremely slow and/or the enemies will never actually come to you, so jumping around and killing them is almost mandatory.
More to the point, letting the enemies come close enough to shoot them when you are standing next to the target is not necessarily a good strategy. If the enemy comes close enough to the target to see it, he can shoot it. Making a broad perimeter around the target is often far more secure than standing around it and waiting for enemies to come to you, though that can depend on the Warframes and the coordination of the team.

[Making Defenses time-based instead of killing waves would alleviate some of these problems, but that is not where we are right now. (And even making the Defenses time based might just result in a worse meta where enemies get locked out of reach and then you just sit there and wait, but that is not actually the point of this.)]

 

3: Interception:
I agree in principle.
In practice, if the team is strong enough and the mission has no way to fail, there is no reason to stand around waiting.
On the other hand, if one letter gets swarmed and someone else has theirs under control, it is better for the team to leave your letter for a moment and help someone else.

I am not saying, you should just solo the whole mission and ruin everyone`s fun, but staying at your letter, no matter what, can be even worse. 

 

4: Survival:

Keeping the team together is important, especially if one or more of them can`t kill enemies fast enough or keep dying.

It is also boring and only really necessary if there is otherwise a lack of enemies, the mission might fail, or someone keeps dying.

It also depends a lot on why you are playing survival.
Finishing the mission for a reward or completion? – Do what you want, as long as the mission doesn`t fail.

“Having” to play Survival for some Event or Sortie, you usually just wait for the timer to run out and there is no real danger for the mission to fail, so why should you camp in one room, instead of (for example) spreading out and searching for the exit?

Collecting Affinity or loot? – Stay together!

  

Conclusion:
I agree in general with your guidelines as a very good starting point for explaining newer players these mission types and how to behave in order not to sabotage the team or themselves.

Following your guidelines, players will be able to win any of these missions most of the time with little problems.


I however disagree with these guidelines in about 90%+ of the actual missions I personally play with other random people. Not because you are wrong, but because they sound inflexible or at least unfinished and seem to tell players to follow a script instead of having situational awareness and flexibility.

 

General:
Quote:

>The only piece of this that might remotely help, here, is asking users between MR1 and 7 if they have any questions.<

 

I am pretty sure, most people, regardless of MR, don`t know everything that would actually help them, me included.

You often have to read at least a full Wiki-page for every new big Event or Update, to really know how everything works and things change all the time.
For example: Corrosive Projection or Steel Charge?
I remember years ago, when someone showed mathematically and with proof, that CP was straight up better regarding damage against anything with armor. That didn`t stop the debate at all. And I have no idea, if it is even still true.  

Another one is the recent OV event. People were talking in the Forum about others not playing till the end or instantly killing the Orphix, instead of farming Sentients for more points and others simply extracted because they only wanted specific things from the rotating drop tables (That had to be read externally from the game), so extracting after a specific point made sense for them, and it seemed like a lot of people didn`t understand why others played the Event differently.  

Sometimes they played it differently, because they had no idea how to best get what they actually wanted.
Sometimes they simply wanted different things, but there was only one Event and there are only so many missions in the game, so you will have players in Public Matches that simply want different things in the same mission (affinity vs. loot vs. speedrun vs. just for fun?) or play differently.

I am NOT including players who deliberately sabotage the missions in this.
 


Tl;dr:
I mostly agree as general guidelines, so thank you for writing them.
But the actual gameplay and the players are more complex than that, so this guidelines are really more of a starting point, than strict and complete rules. 

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7 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

I agree with most of this, except survival, that seems entirely neurotic. If I want to put together a farming group, I’ll do it in my clan or in my recruit chat. To just load into a mission and expect others to play how you want them to, is pretty ridiculous I must say.

 

Here’s my one strike system, if you load into a public game and start making demands of people, you’re the problem and should be playing solo.

Survival spawns are affected by players running off, common knowledge. 

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12 minutes ago, (PSN)FK2P said:

Survival spawns are affected by players running off, common knowledge. 

Yeah, sure. But if you want to do a serious farming run, you should coordinate that with your clan or recruiting chat. A lot of new players use dark sectors just to get the quick credits. If people want to run around for 5 minutes in survival, instead of sitting in one room, you have no right to tell them otherwise.

If you want to do a specific farm, you coordinate it. You don't just expect whoever you end up with to play to suit you. 

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