The Eros Wings Ephemera and the design of Warframe

[Surbusken]

33 minutes ago, AndrejDelaney said:

... how Deus Ex Human Revolution...

Is there a reason you bring up deus ex?

Only part 1 and 2 are accepted as canon games, human revolution is when it became consolized and lost itself, like mafia 2, resident evil 4, hitman 2, rainbow six vegas and gta 4 before it.

That aside I don't know how deus ex connects with warframe, did they copy something from the universe I didn't know about?

Also I think my point went right past your windows

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

A tale as old as gaming: people can't learn game mechanics or actually be good at a game, but they can be completely devastated by some small cosmetic item that had no effect on the game at all. 

We've reached peak Karen.

[AndrejDelaney]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Aadi880:

If a player can most certainly take a butterfly wing and make it opposite to warframe's art direction

Let me just quote myself here: 

vor 58 Minuten schrieb AndrejDelaney:

Not really, considering they are overall mechanical in nature and the creator clearly has put effort into making them fit design-wise into Warframe [...] They are not just butterfly wings that the creator took from a real-life photograph, made bigger and "sold" as a syandana.

About the pink Rhinos ... No objections here. Colors are just that: Colors. And if you want to slap mechanical butterfly wings on that, go for it. That's part of Warframe's customization. Does this kind of freedom lead to some ridiculous, unfitting results? Sure. I would argue you can't really prevent that from happening. And that's also part of the fun in Warframe (it's a game after all, you are supposed to have fun, too, right?).

But as someone in this thread already pointed out: DE has already drawn a line in regards to what they'd allow overall into Warframe, therefore restricting the ridiculousness somewhat that can occur in-game (Tennogen). Why are they going against that suddendly? What changed? And would it really be that bad if DE had come up with something ... more than just gigantic angel/bird wings? Since that butterfly syandana is more than just huge butterfly wings glued to the back of your Warframe (it's more detailed, more intricate than that).

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

10 hours ago, quxier said:

*Pink Rhino walks in*: Don't take my stuffs.

Are frame really grotesque? I mean... some of them probably (Grendel on top of my head) but other looks nice, like normal people in "clothes".

And even you want to go grotesque route (I assume you mean things that join "good" and "bad" sides) then things like wings or bunny ears fit very much. Imagine pink Rhino, with bunny ears and wings... murdering enemies. I guess that might be called grotesque (I'm not expert!).

Pink Rhino with Khora Urushu animation. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

10 hours ago, Fabpsi said:

Another point that comes up when I think about this topic (even if this topic is overall about a sorta small thing in the game and I don't want to "make a big thing about it" )

Maybe not a lot of players know this, but when you are thinking about creating something for Tennogen, you can read a little bit before starting so you know what you are allowed to do and what not. ( here a link for those who are interested / want to know more about Tennogen)
1 point is "Reasons for rejection" of a certain design:


Here the 2 points that suddenly sound very...welll...strange now that we have angel-wings in the game (and yes, I think of them as angel-wings. Condroc wings look different enough)
- [...] We are the first to admit that we have made Candy Cane scarfs and had Grineer walking around with Easter Bunny Ears, but those items come in and out of the game quickly. We do not want those narrative breaking elements in the game permanently." [...]
and
- [...] "Wrong art style without any of Warframe’s visual themes incorporated (too cartoony, too high fantasy, etc.)" [...]

To sum it up why those beautiful wings do not hit the sweetspot for every tenno out there: 
They have no certain/specific (enough) faction design (No spaceninja metal wings, no neon-corpus wings, no archwing wings, no specific bird like wings we chopped of a wild animal. Simple high fantasy looking angel wings) which DE said they do not want to have in the game like that.

They just look like something from a different game. I consider them more "fantasy world" compared to the rest of accessoires that are available in the game.

  Reveal hidden contents

maybe I am just playing toooo much genshin next to Warframe, lol 

Like op said: 
People who don't "like" those wings as much as other players, do not want to sound like crybabies. I don't want to complain here or ruin the fun for others. Enjoy making the most beautiful Warframe for you and play the game the way you want to play it! (I will do that too 😄)The amount of customization in Warframe is one of the things that makes this game so much fun.  I will even use the wings on some Warframes too, just for the lolz and the memes (already glued them forever on my pink rhino 😅)

Just...maybe next time more explanation on "why?" and not just:
"Hey, valentines day is around the corner, here, feel free to buy some Angel-Wings and use them forever!" 
- "Oh, nice i guess, ty! Speaking of stuff like that: what about the bunny-ea"
"Todelooo tenno, gotta go, have fun!" 

I like this idea^^

I hope all of you enjoy the weekend 
Cheers,
Fabpsi~

The game is also subject to change and they don't have to notify anyone, either. I'm not gonna bother copying and pasting the excerpt because it's standard legal jargon that's a part of every game. 

Things like this are written within the game's Terms of Sevice and such for reasons like this.

[AndrejDelaney]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb Surbusken:

Is there a reason you bring up deus ex?

I bring it up because that game - generally speaking - also falls into the science-fiction genre like Warframe (and used wings / the Icarus theme in its promotional material and as a visual representation of its story). And in the follow-up game (Mankind Devided) you can find those wings actually implemented into the environment of the game. I thought it was clever how the developers managed to do it.

In the same way, DE could have taken those angel wings and could have changed them, changed their looks, broken them apart and replaced some organic parts with metal etc. 

That was the point of your post, after all: Make it more Warframe-y. And for that you can't just take something existing in the real world and insert it into the game environment and call it a day.

I don't know. Deus Ex just popped into my head, reading through your post. 😅

[quxier]

26 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

A tale as old as gaming: people can't learn game mechanics or actually be good at a game, but they can be completely devastated by some small cosmetic item that had no effect on the game at all. 

We've reached peak Karen.

Well... it has effect on our gameplay. I have to put it off because I can't see where I'm aiming (when you RMB your wings become invisible).

[AndrejDelaney]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Madurai-Prime:

A tale as old as gaming: people can't learn game mechanics or actually be good at a game, but they can be completely devastated by some small cosmetic item that had no effect on the game at all. 

We've reached peak Karen.

Yeah, I am so "devastated" that I even wrote that, if people enjoy the new item, I am glad they do. Sure. Because sharing different opinions respectfully is "peak Karen". 😉

[Aadi880]

3 minutes ago, quxier said:

Well... it has effect on our gameplay. I have to put it off because I can't see where I'm aiming (when you RMB your wings become invisible).

Does it? 

In my case, I'm having trouble keeping it visible. On gameplay it stays invisible 90% of the time. The only 10% of the time it is visible is when I've killed everything in the tileset.

I'm not pressing any buttons. It just seems to go invisible if there's an enemy on the current tileset or on the next, aiming or not. In which case, its not really affecting my gameplay.

Bug perhaps?

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

1 minute ago, Aadi880 said:

Does it? 

In my case, I'm having trouble keeping it visible. On gameplay it stays invisible 90% of the time. The only 10% of the time it is visible is when I've killed everything in the tileset.

I'm not pressing any buttons. It just seems to go invisible if there's an enemy on the current tileset or on the next, aiming or not. In which case, its not really affecting my gameplay.

Bug perhaps?

No, it’s been clarified by staff. The wings turn invisible when you aim or when enemies are close.

[(PSN)A__FlyingSausage]

28 minutes ago, quxier said:

Well... it has effect on our gameplay. I have to put it off because I can't see where I'm aiming (when you RMB your wings become invisible).

Same reason I'm also here can't kick anything but the fact that wings are always displayed unlike the other ephemera, is a bit annoying as visibility is while aiming is impaired. 

It would be great if they fold when fighting then they can open when I'm standing still or running.

[quxier]

15 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Does it? 

In my case, I'm having trouble keeping it visible. On gameplay it stays invisible 90% of the time. The only 10% of the time it is visible is when I've killed everything in the tileset.

I'm not pressing any buttons. It just seems to go invisible if there's an enemy on the current tileset or on the next, aiming or not. In which case, its not really affecting my gameplay.

Bug perhaps?

For me it was invisible only when I have been aiming.

I think I've tested it in Similacrum so maybe it's Simulacrum' bug.

[Aadi880]

Just now, quxier said:

I think I've tested it in Similacrum so maybe it's Simulacrum' bug.

For reference, My experience comes from Void Oxomocco (the level 30 exterminate). Wing remains invisible when there's an enemy nearby at all times.

I think its aggro related, since void enemies remains aggro at all times.

[Fabpsi]

Oh, a lot of new comments^^ 

10 hours ago, Katinka said:

Yet the Candy Cane scythe skin was usable permanently and only purchasable seasonally, as these wings will be (along with the Eros Arrow after years of popular demand).  Tennogen designs are intended to be permanent additions to the store so I can understand them being held to a higher standard than items that have a seasonal availability, even if those items can be used all year once bought.

I agree! Thank you for explaining it :) 
 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

A tale as old as gaming: people can't learn game mechanics or actually be good at a game, but they can be completely devastated by some small cosmetic item that had no effect on the game at all. 

You...ok? Nobody said here this topic was a huge deal and nobody said they were "devestated". Some people, me included, don't like the wings as much as others and try to explain their point of view in a respectful way...nothing more to it.
Furthermore what has "learning game mechanics or actually be good at a game" to do with this topic at all? Where is the connection? Why bring this up here? 

Did you just want to make a plain Karen joke or am I missing something of value? (genuine question)
 

10 hours ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

We are now generic MMO.

generic, that was the word I forgot! Thank you! 
That fits, I think the wings are generic extras. Maybe I didn't like to think about Warframe using just generic designs this visible (even if those design can and will look great). That's about it.

About the other comments here:
A lot of great points and I agree with ~95% of them! 
I am well aware that DE can and will do whatever they think fits into the game. Nothing wrong with that - probably one of the reasons why I still enjoy the game^^
Let's see what the future brings!

(btw great screenshot MagPrime, gonna have to play a little bit around in photora now too 😅)

[Serafim_94]

11 часов назад, Fabpsi сказал:

Another point that comes up when I think about this topic (even if this topic is overall about a sorta small thing in the game and I don't want to "make a big thing about it" )

Maybe not a lot of players know this, but when you are thinking about creating something for Tennogen, you can read a little bit before starting so you know what you are allowed to do and what not. ( here a link for those who are interested / want to know more about Tennogen)
1 point is "Reasons for rejection" of a certain design:


Here the 2 points that suddenly sound very...welll...strange now that we have angel-wings in the game (and yes, I think of them as angel-wings. Condroc wings look different enough)
- [...] We are the first to admit that we have made Candy Cane scarfs and had Grineer walking around with Easter Bunny Ears, but those items come in and out of the game quickly. We do not want those narrative breaking elements in the game permanently." [...]
and
- [...] "Wrong art style without any of Warframe’s visual themes incorporated (too cartoony, too high fantasy, etc.)" [...]

To sum it up why those beautiful wings do not hit the sweetspot for every tenno out there: 
They have no certain/specific (enough) faction design (No spaceninja metal wings, no neon-corpus wings, no archwing wings, no specific bird like wings we chopped of a wild animal. Simple high fantasy looking angel wings) which DE said they do not want to have in the game like that.

They just look like something from a different game. I consider them more "fantasy world" compared to the rest of accessoires that are available in the game.

  Показать контент

maybe I am just playing toooo much genshin next to Warframe, lol 

Like op said: 
People who don't "like" those wings as much as other players, do not want to sound like crybabies. I don't want to complain here or ruin the fun for others. Enjoy making the most beautiful Warframe for you and play the game the way you want to play it! (I will do that too 😄)The amount of customization in Warframe is one of the things that makes this game so much fun.  I will even use the wings on some Warframes too, just for the lolz and the memes (already glued them forever on my pink rhino 😅)

Just...maybe next time more explanation on "why?" and not just:
"Hey, valentines day is around the corner, here, feel free to buy some Angel-Wings and use them forever!" 
- "Oh, nice i guess, ty! Speaking of stuff like that: what about the bunny-ea"
"Todelooo tenno, gotta go, have fun!" 

I like this idea^^

I hope all of you enjoy the weekend 
Cheers,
Fabpsi~

We've had tennogen butterfly wings for years though. Clearly they don't break immersion as hard as birb wings.

[(PSN)DidacoJack]

What? Warframe has an art direction and things have to fit in? 

 

Oh no, OP, you didn't... 

[Numerikuu]

Wholeheartedly agree, OP. I personally thought Ticker's ones would be permanent since they at least fit into the visual aesthetic of Warframe, while the feathery ones would be temporary like all the other holiday cosmetics (pumpkin head, bunny ears, etc.)

To each their own... but I wish there was a toggle to disable them. Would be nice to have an optional toggle to disable other players ephemeras.

[Fabpsi]

18 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

We've had tennogen butterfly wings for years though. Clearly they don't break immersion as hard as birb wings.

I don't regret posting the Tennogen text, but maybe I should have explained it a little bit better in this conversation/context^^'
I think now that I am not troubled that they are "wings", but that they are generic looking wings (like mentioned in my other post: I am so thankful that I finally remembered the word generic 😂)

Like other players mentioned, we have ephemeras that add cobwebs, clouds above our head with snow or syandanas that look like butterfly wings! All great and valid examples for over the top freaky cosmetics. They all look still special enough and are one of a kind imo, the wings are just... wings *hides the urge to say "generic" again *

So "Butt muh immerzion plz!!!11" is a difficult argument to bring up. Shouldn't have only focussed on that one. Maybe more "fancy" birb wings next time, is that the right word? Tickers neon-wings (the ones we can get as a decoration) for example.
Still, great to have a shop with a lot of nice stuff (for not a lot of "ressources") in it in the first place^^

For now I will go with "maybe toggle-option in the future" and enjoy that the majority of players are happy 😄

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

For reference, My experience comes from Void Oxomocco (the level 30 exterminate). Wing remains invisible when there's an enemy nearby at all times.

I think its aggro related, since void enemies remains aggro at all times.

I've tried Oxo and it indeed invisible when there are enemies around.

[Aadi880]

9 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Would be nice to have an optional toggle to disable other players ephemeras.

Hmm...

Not to disagree, but thinking from DE's perspective, I am imagining the severe backlash this can cause.

The main reason people use Ephemeras is to show it off, if not only to see it themselves. I feel like it puts them in a rather problematic situation. Cosmetics loses value if no one can see them. Its not something that has a definitive value. The value of a cosmetic such as this is subjective.

People buy Kuva Liches from other players mainly for the ephemeras. It can go for 100 plat, and even 200 if it has a really good weapon. To not allow Ephemeras to be visible, is to discourage 100p worth of trading and playtimes (Kind of a long shot, but I think it's worth considering)

[Aadi880]

6 minutes ago, quxier said:

I've tried Oxo and it indeed invisible when there are enemies around.

Huh, then I suppose it's confirmed. Thanks for that.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

45 minutes ago, Fabpsi said:

Oh, a lot of new comments^^ 

I agree! Thank you for explaining it :) 
 

You...ok? Nobody said here this topic was a huge deal and nobody said they were "devestated". Some people, me included, don't like the wings as much as others and try to explain their point of view in a respectful way...nothing more to it.
Furthermore what has "learning game mechanics or actually be good at a game" to do with this topic at all? Where is the connection? Why bring this up here? 

Did you just want to make a plain Karen joke or am I missing something of value? (genuine question)
 

generic, that was the word I forgot! Thank you! 
That fits, I think the wings are generic extras. Maybe I didn't like to think about Warframe using just generic designs this visible (even if those design can and will look great). That's about it.

About the other comments here:
A lot of great points and I agree with ~95% of them! 
I am well aware that DE can and will do whatever they think fits into the game. Nothing wrong with that - probably one of the reasons why I still enjoy the game^^
Let's see what the future brings!

(btw great screenshot MagPrime, gonna have to play a little bit around in photora now too 😅)

He said he "had to get it off his chest" and that it "bothered him". 

I'm not the only one that thinks it's odd that an issue for someone is "A game I don't own released wings that my eyes may have to see occasionally." 

Edit: for your other question. I was pointing out how people will make more of an effort to release their frustrations about some pixels but won't make an effort to learn about the game or be better at it. 

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

8 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Hmm...

Not to disagree, but thinking from DE's perspective, I am imagining the severe backlash this can cause.

The main reason people use Ephemeras is to show it off, if not only to see it themselves. I feel like it puts them in a rather problematic situation. Cosmetics loses value if no one can see them. Its not something that has a definitive value. The value of a cosmetic such as this is subjective.

People buy Kuva Liches from other players mainly for the ephemeras. It can go for 100 plat, and even 200 if it has a really good weapon. To not allow Ephemeras to be visible, is to discourage 100p worth of trading and playtimes (Kind of a long shot, but I think it's worth considering)

It's also that they're selectively deciding what their eyes should see and not see. 

Why can't I advocate for an option to not see a certain Prime deluxe or Tennogen. All I have to do is say it bothers me, right? 

[Numerikuu]

1 hour ago, Aadi880 said:

Hmm...

Not to disagree, but thinking from DE's perspective, I am imagining the severe backlash this can cause.

The main reason people use Ephemeras is to show it off, if not only to see it themselves. I feel like it puts them in a rather problematic situation. Cosmetics loses value if no one can see them. Its not something that has a definitive value. The value of a cosmetic such as this is subjective.

People buy Kuva Liches from other players mainly for the ephemeras. It can go for 100 plat, and even 200 if it has a really good weapon. To not allow Ephemeras to be visible, is to discourage 100p worth of trading and playtimes (Kind of a long shot, but I think it's worth considering)

I have to disagree on the basis that this would be an optional choice, not a universal, permanent change. Other MMO's have done just this with certain cosmetics (pets, special effects, mounts etc) and it did not affect their sales in the slightest. The majority that buy these cosmetics only care that they themselves see the aesthetic. Few buy them for the sole purpose of only showing off to others. And those that do? The reality is, the vast majority of people give zero f's.

[Fabpsi]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

He said he "had to get it off his chest" and that it "bothered him". 

I'm not the only one that thinks it's odd that an issue for someone is "A game I don't own released wings that my eyes may have to see occasionally." 

Fair enough, guess I was surprised by the words you used. Thank you for the explanation!
And of course you are not the only one to think that, same way op is no the only one who thinks in a different way^^

On the first glance I had the impression that you are a little bit "pushing" the point of this thread so it seems more dramatic. (nothing wrong with that, it can help so people understand a certain point better) 
For example: Sentences like "A game I don't own released wings that my eyes may have to see occasionally." have drama-potential. (and I doubt somebody here in this thread doesn't own Warframe and posts about how they don't like the new wings, lol) 
I get the point you are making, I get that there are "bigger issues" with the game and that a small optional decoration-thingy shouldn't bother people that much. I get that looking in this Forum and seeing complains about alllll the different small&big things can be exhausting.

Oh well, meta-discussions about the way people discuss in a specific discussion would be toooo much right now, I digress, sry 😅