The Eros Wings Ephemera and the design of Warframe

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 minutes ago, Fabpsi said:

Fair enough, guess I was surprised by the words you used. Thank you for the explanation!
And of course you are not the only one to think that, same way op is no the only one who thinks in a different way^^

On the first glance I had the impression that you are a little bit "pushing" the point of this thread so it seems more dramatic. (nothing wrong with that, it can help so people understand a certain point better) 
For example: Sentences like "A game I don't own released wings that my eyes may have to see occasionally." have drama-potential. (and I doubt somebody here in this thread doesn't own Warframe and posts about how they don't like the new wings, lol) 
I get the point you are making, I get that there are "bigger issues" with the game and that a small optional decoration-thingy shouldn't bother people that much. I get that looking in this Forum and seeing complains about alllll the different small&big things can be exhausting.

Oh well, meta-discussions about the way people discuss in a specific discussion would be toooo much right now, I digress, sry 😅

It's ok. My words can come off as combative sometimes. It's just really weird that after 7 years...a pair of wings all of a sudden makes people want to express their concern about how bad it is. Like there wasn't anything else in the game this entire time that bothered anyone, huh? 

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Grendel from Mesopotamian religious literature,

You mean anglo-saxon/norse literature right? Never seen any traces of Grendel elsewhere. And the theme has always been tied to that very famous troll/ogre/beast aswell as drawing some inspiration from the japanese Oni. 

As to the wings, I wouldnt mind an option to be able to turn off the ephemeras from other players. I personally see no issue with feathered wings though when we already have other wing options, like a butterfly syandana. And it isnt like we dont use other biological parts as decorations.

And I dont see why we cant have them here just because they also appear in MMORPG and other types of RPGs. In the way they are given to us in WF it makes pretty good sense since they're a pretty iconic part of Cupid and Eros. Setting outselves on fire, or running around constantly shocked, or radiated makes just as little sense really, yet we have those ephemeras without much complaint. And if we go by the "that game has this so we shouldnt have it here", we shouldnt have ephemeras at all, since PoE already had that long before WF.

Atleast be consistant if you wanna complain about something.

[Krilexis]

If you think those are out of context well look at the butterfly wings or other tennogen stuff (even Khora with roses is nonsense in that case) and second think of these as feathers from hunted Sawgaws in Orb Vallis that have been tinted in white. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Sawgaw?file=SnowBirdCommon.png

[TeaHands]

But bats flying out of our tits like were in a batman cartoon intro fits the lore?

[Aadi880]

36 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

I have to disagree on the basis that this would be an optional choice, not a universal, permanent change. Other MMO's have done just this with certain cosmetics (pets, special effects, mounts etc) and it did not affect their sales in the slightest. The majority that buy these cosmetics only care that they themselves see the aesthetic. Few buy them for the sole purpose of only show off to others. And those that do? The reality is, the vast majority of people give zero f's.

Except... the minority is louder.

Whether its optional or permanent doesn't matter. The sheer possibility of a player turning it off is enough for several rant posts.

Considering this community is extremely vocal to even the littlest of things, I don't think they will remain silent.

What doesn't matter is what other MMO did. What matters is how the THIS community views cosmetics... "Fashion Frame is Endgame" didn't become a meme for no reason. Cosmetics in warframe is considered seriously here than I have ever seen in any other game. So, I do not think "Other MMOs did it so it is fine" applies fully.

Or not. This community is as unpredictable as the weather. I'm just saying my concerns. DE is not afraid to listen to minorities however, (Remember Conclave and Universal Medallions? That was only ONE person).

[AndrejDelaney]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb TomCruisesSon:

But bats flying out of our tits like were in a batman cartoon intro fits the lore?

Are we seriously putting small bats/ silhouettes of bats flying around your Warframe on the same level as gigantic angel/bird wings glued to the back of your Warframe? What is more out of place? The same with the snow ephemera.

I think, Steve once said (or I just made it up, I am not sure), in regards to what they can and simply don't want to implement in terms of cosmetics: It's about controlling the chaos. They are fine with a little bit of it, but it shouldn't go that far that it starts to undermine the vision, the overall design of Warframe.

Also, to make this absolutely clear, in this thread, once and for all: my post wasn't and still isn't a call for removing things you or others like. This is not a cancel culture thread. I am not about that. All I wanted is to share an opinion/criticism on a publically accessable forum regarding a game that I enjoy a whole lot. That's it. Enjoy the things you like and I go about finding things that I like. End of story.

[ShogunGunshow]

14 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I don't know if they should be short term items or not but, I think the best solution would be to make such cosmetics a client side feature, where people can opt to see them or not, and make them permanent. 

Something like an 'enable Holiday items' button? That'd be nice.

[garbenzine]

My one issue with the wings is that they're so big, I can hardly see what the hell I'm doing.  It's especially bad on any of the "close-in" areas, the orbiter/relays/towns.  Though, I have to disagree on making them seasonal, because I want the seasonal items to become permanent.  I only play Ash around Halloween because the pumpkin head is a required part of my look for him. 

[SneakyErvin]

16 minutes ago, AndrejDelaney said:

Are we seriously putting small bats/ silhouettes of bats flying around your Warframe on the same level as gigantic angel/bird wings glued to the back of your Warframe? What is more out of place? The same with the snow ephemera.

They are all of the same level since neither makes sense in WF. Snow eph can atleast make some sense on Frost, just as the grass on Obe and Fae on Titania. The rest are highly equationable. IMO the bats make less sense than the feathered wings, since I can actually see feathered wings being genetically manipulated through helminth and grafted onto the frame. The bats however just spring out of every possible orifice and some other places and go "squee squee *flap*flap*flap*" in the middle of an enemy outpost.

[Vortex]

Nah, it's great the way it is, it's past time to bring something new, and I hope they do it more often, thanks to the wings I managed to attract some friends to the game, I'm sorry to say, but we already have enough ugly and strange things in the game.

[Belmira]

I mentioned before a possible skin design contest. I still think alternate skin designs could work (although ephemeras don't have skins). Turning the Eros wings into a syandana would make sense. I sincerely do not know why they were not a syandana to begin with.

Furthermore, they should be able to fold down in combat. Their current position and rigidity makes them more of an annoyance during gameplay than anything else. Maybe it was on purpose to mitigate how many players actually play with the wings on. I know that the wings disappear when you focus/aim your primary weapon, but not everyone plays that way.

Perhaps Baro can carry one alternate look for the wings. Perhaps an alternate look per Syndicate could be cool too. Just my own proposal.

[SneakyErvin]

7 minutes ago, Belmira said:

I mentioned before a possible skin design contest. I still think alternate skin designs could work (although ephemeras don't have skins). Turning the Eros wings into a syandana would make sense. I sincerely do not know why they were not a syandana to begin with.

Furthermore, they should be able to fold down in combat. Their current position and rigidity makes them more of an annoyance during gameplay than anything else. Maybe it was on purpose to mitigate how many players actually play with the wings on. I know that the wings disappear when you focus/aim your primary weapon, but not everyone plays that way.

Perhaps Baro can carry one alternate look for the wings. Perhaps an alternate look per Syndicate could be cool too. Just my own proposal.

I would have definently prefered them as a syandana and not in their extended form. Tucked on the back in an M shape would have been better, then have them extend when we aim-glide possibly.

[shadyadie]

11 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Personally, I can't stand the wing cosmetic spam in Path of Exile. I hope WF doesn't start looking like that. 

You mean in the Rogue Harbour which is filled with giant horses and howling wolves all the time looking like someone's thrown up in Willy Wonka's chocolate factory whilst bringing your FPS down to 10? You DON'T enjoy that? SMH my head

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

14 hours ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Bunny ears and Easter eggs ephemera should be permanent as well.

Yeah we should be allowed to be silly if we want, i see alot other games with serious tones let you keep holiday cosmetics on all the time and it really doesn't matter.

Why are bunny ears so bad while there's a neon pink warframe jumping around with butterfly wings?

[Aadi880]

11 minutes ago, Belmira said:

Furthermore, they should be able to fold down in combat. Their current position and rigidity makes them more of an annoyance during gameplay than anything else. Maybe it was on purpose to mitigate how many players actually play with the wings on. I know that the wings disappear when you focus/aim your primary weapon, but not everyone plays that way.

But they disappear entirely tho, regardless if your aiming

If there is an enemy in the tileset you are on, or on the next, the wing will disappear almost entirely. Aggro-ed enemies will always make them disappear, even if you are not pressing any buttons.

(No, Simulacrum is bugged and it doesn't do that there.)

I feel like having them folded might cause some more annoyance on warframes like Atlas (Bless him and his massive shoulders...).

[AndrejDelaney]

vor 44 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

They are all of the same level since neither makes sense in WF. Snow eph can atleast make some sense on Frost, just as the grass on Obe and Fae on Titania. The rest are highly equationable. IMO the bats make less sense than the feathered wings, since I can actually see feathered wings being genetically manipulated through helminth and grafted onto the frame. The bats however just spring out of every possible orifice and some other places and go "squee squee *flap*flap*flap*" in the middle of an enemy outpost.

Talking about lore: "Through Helminth, the Tenno got themselves perfectly shaped, clean, gigantic bird wings that they attached to their frames." Doesn't that sound off to you? Also, I don't know about you, but the bats look more like they just appear out of nowhere around your Warframe. In fact, they do. Just look at it more closely.

Also I named the thread "The Eros Wings Ephemera and the design of Warframe". This isn't about if it makes sense or not (not primarily, I guess we could argue if it makes sense to design the wings the way DE did - and that way, we would be back on topic). A lot of things lack sense in Warframe. We got children who wield some kind of space / void magic. While Warframe does belong to the science-fiction genre, I wouldn't count it towards the section of science-fiction that focuses on the creation and narrative use of futuristic technology that makes sense and is believable. Warframe isn't Star Trek. It's more Star Wars.

In that way, bats appearing out of nowhere - questionable, but it's okay, we got magic in the game, it works, it's also not too obtrusive ... Now, let's take a look at that new ephemera: Just gigantic angel/bird wings. Right in your face (quite literally, I've seen the screenshots 😉). Bam! Now, of course, you could bring the same argument: It's magic, right? Okay. But what about the way they look? Does it fit into the game - design-wise? That exactly is the point I am making.

[Marihel]

The one issue I could see is literally the size, and how having 4 players with the wings equipped could literally prevent you from seeing anything at times.

I am one of the players that loves them, I love cosmetics, I love having flashy Warframes, and I love purchasing as many cosmetic options as I can afford. I do this for myself, however.

If I want to share my Fashionframe I will take a cute screenshot and upload it onto the forums/twitter/steam, wherever I feel like showing what I made. +1 on being able to toggle other players customization pieces, so you do not have to bother with them if you don't want to. It's a bit like Octavia and her music, players can and do take a big amount of time making nice songs, that doesn't mean everyone has to listen to them. 

[Hypernaut1]

11 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Butterfly syandana. Mercy wings. Wizard outfits for Kavats. This didn’t just happen. No single individual like every cosmetic in a game. Get a grip, dude.

I think you need to get a grip. I'm allowed to not like bird wings in WF. It's breaking their own stated design rules. 

I simply said it's made me raise an eyebrow. 

Maybe they will cross the line for you when they start adding commercial cosmetics, like coca-cola wings or something. For me, it's with simple angel wings. We all have opinions. 

I still brought the damn things and tried them out. 

[MagPrime]

9 hours ago, Drasiel said:

that picture is fantastic I don't suppose you'd have one in 1920x1080? I'd really like to rock that image on my desktop.

 

I can try to figure out how to get it there and message you, if you want.  

1 hour ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Something like an 'enable Holiday items' button? That'd be nice.

Pretty much. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

They fit about as well as all the other winged syadanas we have. Wings are fine. Birds are everywhere in Warframe. Not just condrocs. 

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

I had fun with them at first, but after staring at them long enough I began to feel like they were very out of place. I agree that they should be more mechanical/organic looking; they would blend in much better that way.

[Myscho]

Welcome to crazy town where people can be triggered with cosmetics in virtual space

[(PSN)KCGrimReaper15]

Nah I actually love the wings & want to see them stay + they suit well with frames like Zephyr who is a bird frame so I don't see why people are making such a big deal when we you should be making a huge fuss over bugs & glitches in this game like blackout pulse avionics mod that needs fixed cause it does not work at all..

 

Those things need more attention then something like this start focusing more on making this game better by asking for game breaking bugs to be fixed over something like this that is a choice rather you want to wear it on not..

Thanks 

[SneakyErvin]

47 minutes ago, AndrejDelaney said:

Talking about lore: "Through Helminth, the Tenno got themselves perfectly shaped, clean, gigantic bird wings that they attached to their frames." Doesn't that sound off to you? Also, I don't know about you, but the bats look more like they just appear out of nowhere around your Warframe. In fact, they do. Just look at it more closely.

Also I named the thread "The Eros Wings Ephemera and the design of Warframe". This isn't about if it makes sense or not (not primarily, I guess we could argue if it makes sense to design the wings the way DE did - and that way, we would be back on topic). A lot of things lack sense in Warframe. We got children who wield some kind of space / void magic. While Warframe does belong to the science-fiction genre, I wouldn't count it towards the section of science-fiction that focuses on the creation and narrative use of futuristic technology that makes sense and is believable. Warframe isn't Star Trek. It's more Star Wars.

In that way, bats appearing out of nowhere - questionable, but it's okay, we got magic in the game, it works, it's also not too obtrusive ... Now, let's take a look at that new ephemera: Just gigantic angel/bird wings. Right in your face (quite literally, I've seen the screenshots 😉). Bam! Now, of course, you could bring the same argument: It's magic, right? Okay. But what about the way they look? Does it fit into the game - design-wise? That exactly is the point I am making.

And I'd say wings would fit "perfectly shaped" when it comes to helminth, since helminth is now something that can alter the tenno (or well warframe) after its initial creation aswell. The wings themselves arent out of place since we already have other references that are similar in look and execution (butterfly syandana that was approved years ago. And I think the line where something become obtrucive or intrucive is in the eye of the beholder. For me, the wings are far easier on the eye even if they do fill alot of the screen, compared to the bats (or electric) that are annoying both in sound and their "flickering" animation. So I dont think either of us are to judge what is or isnt obtrusive or intrusive. As Amon Amarth puts it, "Some fellows like their women short, some fellows like them round, but me I like the kinda girl, that makes me stand up to go down".

I probably wont use the wings myself much, I might make a Tzeentch themed frame though at some point or possibly an angel of death with Sevagoth. That doesnt change that I think they do fit in given what else we have access too. For me the thing that isnt so appealing with them is that they are stretched at all times. If they were folded in an M shape on the back I'd likely use them on a few frames without a doubt. But I dont dislike them just because they are feathered wings, since to me it doesnt matter if the wings are made of light, infested flesh, a massive butterfly or fearthers, we are in a universe where everything is possible and genetic alteration/manipulation and grafting is lowtech more or less.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

They fit about as well as all the other winged syadanas we have. Wings are fine. Birds are everywhere in Warframe. Not just condrocs.