The Eros Wings Ephemera and the design of Warframe

[Belmira]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I would have definently prefered them as a syandana and not in their extended form. Tucked on the back in an M shape would have been better, then have them extend when we aim-glide possibly.

I certainly think that would be a good idea. It makes sense. 

[Belmira]

1 hour ago, Aadi880 said:

But they disappear entirely tho, regardless if your aiming

If there is an enemy in the tileset you are on, or on the next, the wing will disappear almost entirely. Aggro-ed enemies will always make them disappear, even if you are not pressing any buttons.

(No, Simulacrum is bugged and it doesn't do that there.)

I feel like having them folded might cause some more annoyance on warframes like Atlas (Bless him and his massive shoulders...).

They remain open on my Titania regardless of what weapon I use. So maybe it's been fixed since I last played last night.

[AndrejDelaney]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

genetic alteration/manipulation and grafting is lowtech more or less.

But it's flawed and not perfect. Just look at the Grineer and their skin disease / problem that stems from their cloning technology ... Actually, barely anything, is perfect in Warframe - the overall design of the game reflects that fact. Nothing about those wings is broken, deformed ... They are, actually, perfect in design while everything around them - the Warframes included - aren't.

And about the butterfly syandana: I already made my point in regards to that on page 2 of this thread (I think). So, take a look, if you are interested. I want to avoid repeating myself.

[Zimzala]

I will never understand why people think their pretendy fun time games have to be 'so serious'.

The things people choose to be upset about will never cease to amaze, what a wonderful world.

I am not implying anyone's outlook is invalid, simply that I deeply, seriously, do not understand why so many people decide to get upset about the art direction a game takes when adding some whimsical extras for fun.

But, alas, games are 'serious business' to a lot of people I guess, with no room for whimsy.

I love whimsy.

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, AndrejDelaney said:

But it's flawed and not perfect. Just look at the Grineer and their skin disease / problem that stems from their cloning technology ... Actually, barely anything, is perfect in Warframe - the overall design of the game reflects that fact. Nothing about those wings is broken, deformed ... They are, actually, perfect in design while everything around them - the Warframes included - aren't.

And about the butterfly syandana: I already made my point in regards to that on page 2 of this thread (I think). So, take a look, if you are interested. I want to avoid repeating myself.

Of course it is flawed, but we dont use Grineer tech. And the actual frames are perfect, as in the primes. The tenno knocks offs not so much. Everything Orokin made is in essence perfect since the aestethics are by design. And there is also a big things you probably miss. The wings arent actual physical wings either, they are made of energy, you'd see that if you had tried them out in game. They are holograms by the looks of it. So they fit in even more since it is something we've had provided to us by the inhabitants of Fortuna and not something actually tied to Tenno culture.

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You mean anglo-saxon/norse literature right? Never seen any traces of Grendel elsewhere. And the theme has always been tied to that very famous troll/ogre/beast aswell as drawing some inspiration from the japanese Oni. 

 

My apologies, I had Gilgamesh and Beowulf mixed up

[AndrejDelaney]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

Of course it is flawed, but we dont use Grineer tech. And the actual frames are perfect, as in the primes. The tenno knocks offs not so much. Everything Orokin made is in essence perfect since the aestethics are by design. And there is also a big things you probably miss. The wings arent actual physical wings either, they are made of energy, you'd see that if you had tried them out in game. They are holograms by the looks of it. So they fit in even more since it is something we've had provided to us by the inhabitants of Fortuna and not something actually tied to Tenno culture.

I mean, what tells you Orokin tech is flawless? And what makes you think we have access to their technology as it existed during the Old War? The Grineer are Orokin creations and look at them now. The wings also don't look Orokin for that matter. It's speculation anyway and - again - not the point of this thread.

Ticker's wings are holographic. The ephemera itself isn't or doesn't look like it at all (neither does it look like anything on Fortuna in general). Just because it can disappear, doesn't automatically make it holographic or energy. The wings don't flicker, they are not see-through, they aren't even properly, logically attached to your Warframe. They are just glued onto it. I have the ephemera (because I like to collect stuff 🙃), I've seen everything there is to see.

At this point, we are running in circles. There are many ways DE could have brought the ephemera's design closer to the overall design of the game. Instead they chose to stick to a typical classic, fantasy-like design that clashes with the unusual but still very obivous science-fictional design of the game. That's my opinion. And you are very welcome to have your own and enjoy the new item. 

[Drasiel]

2 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I can try to figure out how to get it there and message you, if you want.  

Pretty much. 

That would be super awesome! Thanks for being willing to give it a try :D

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, AndrejDelaney said:

I mean, what tells you Orokin tech is flawless? And what makes you think we have access to their technology as it existed during the Old War? The Grineer are Orokin creations and look at them now. The wings also don't look Orokin for that matter. It's speculation anyway and - again - not the point of this thread.

Ticker's wings are holographic. The ephemera itself isn't or doesn't look like it at all (neither does it look like anything on Fortuna in general). Just because it can disappear, doesn't automatically make it holographic or energy. The wings don't flicker, they are not see-through, they aren't even properly, logically attached to your Warframe. They are just glued onto it. I have the ephemera (because I like to collect stuff 🙃), I've seen everything there is to see.

At this point, we are running in circles. There are many ways DE could have brought the ephemera's design closer to the overall design of the game. Instead they chose to stick to a typical classic, fantasy-like design that clashes with the unusual but still very obivous science-fictional design of the game. That's my opinion. And you are very welcome to have your own and enjoy the new item. 

Primes are a good example of Orokin tech we have access to. Grineer as they are now are not Orokin creations, what has happened to the Grineer is due to the Grineer themselves.

You can see the holographic nature of the wings due to the energy that constantly comes from them depending on your energy color. The lack of flickering or see-through doesnt make them less holographic since those are just man made ideas on what a hologram is, based on other sci-fi settings, and WF is WF and nothing else.

They chose the typical look because it fits the theme of the event. You are familiar with Cupid/Eros right? If we got them for some other reasons I'd also qeustion why, but this is something we get that is related to valentines, based on a jolly little winged god shooting arrows of love at people.

[Soy77]

okay ya'll need to stop.

i haven't read page 2 to 4 because we can safely assume that instead of interesting and informative arguments, a thread only goes this fast if two or more people are heavily arguing and furiously defending their opinions. which is very normal in forums and very likely to happen in threads like these.

===============

MY personal main issues with these wings is that they're obstructive. which i'm sure is a very common problem and have been mentioned multiple times in previous pages.

some people might just not bothered by it, and some people heavily leans on the game mechanic that make them disappear as we aim. good for you guys.
but i just can't. i'm sorry but it bothered me way past the point where i can ignore it.

i personally think that this might be the main issue that triggered OP & so many others to reject these wings.
i mean, IF it generally look good AND doesn't have any substantial flaws, even people who hate the looks can easily forgive it. just like we have forgive countless syandanas and tennogens that doesn't really fit into warframe.
just think about it:

• it came with a couple of substantial flaws (obstructing views, clipping absolutely everywhere, disappearing mechanics doesn't perform consistently, etc.)
• but so many people love it, and willing to live with all the flaws. i mean who doesn't want to have wings? even i who hates mmo loves wings.
• which makes people who simply can't live with the flaws start nitpicking other flaws to justify their disappointment towards these item.

in a sense, they're unconsciously trying to convince those who willing to live with all the flaws, that there are other flaws that they shouldn't accept.

none of these need to happen if only DE put more thoughts into their products.
i mean, at the very least they definitely noticed the outrageous clippings but let em pass anyway. since OV it seems that DE have accepted that warframe is a clippy game. which should never be accepted in a game of warframe's level.

my conclusion is rather simple but hard to execute: fix the obstructing and clipping issues, i promise me and some others who currently hate the wings will fade out into the darkness.
seen some promising suggestion about having the wings folding on certain situations, that might work.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Soy77 said:

i personally think that this might be the main issue that triggered OP & so many others to reject these wings.

my conclusion is rather simple but hard to execute: fix the obstructing and clipping issues, i promise me and some others who currently hate the wings will fade out into the darkness.
seen some promising suggestion about having the wings folding on certain situations, that might work.

Actually his whole OP just rages about the concept and mentions nothing of the actual poor implementation of the wings, which is what makes the wings so unbearable to have equipped in the first place.

And you are right, fix the obstructing part and clipping issues and I'd use them since they look great. Folded on ground and extended during aim-glide would be great.

[Aadi880]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Folded on ground and extended during aim-glide would be great.

I'm confused. Why do you want it to obstruct your view?

Wings already disappear completely when an enemy is near you (It doesn't matter if you aim down sight or not. It will disappear if an enemy is nearby).

Or are you talking about teammates obstructing vision?

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

I'm confused. Why do you want it to obstruct your view?

Wings already disappear completely when an enemy is near you (It doesn't matter if you aim down sight or not. It will disappear if an enemy is nearby).

Or are you talking about teammates obstructing vision?

I simply want them to not be extended all the time. They'd disappear the same for the wearer as they do now when aiming. Having them fold/extend would simply be there to make running less obstructed and to give them a more "realistic" interaction for those looking at you as you transition between running and aim-gliding. They could also extend during bullet jumps, make us look like a massive feathered blender. 

[Aadi880]

18 hours ago, Belmira said:

They remain open on my Titania regardless of what weapon I use. So maybe it's been fixed since I last played last night.

I also use it with Titania. Works fine: It disappears when there's any enemy on the tileset or other (that's probably aggro-ed).

Now, there has been a bug reported that it doesn't function properly if you are a Client. I personally play solo mode. I suppose that's why our experience is different?

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

1 hour ago, Soy77 said:

okay ya'll need to stop.

i haven't read page 2 to 4 because we can safely assume that instead of interesting and informative arguments, a thread only goes this fast if two or more people are heavily arguing and furiously defending their opinions. which is very normal in forums and very likely to happen in threads like these.

===============

MY personal main issues with these wings is that they're obstructive. which i'm sure is a very common problem and have been mentioned multiple times in previous pages.

some people might just not bothered by it, and some people heavily leans on the game mechanic that make them disappear as we aim. good for you guys.
but i just can't. i'm sorry but it bothered me way past the point where i can ignore it.

i personally think that this might be the main issue that triggered OP & so many others to reject these wings.
i mean, IF it generally look good AND doesn't have any substantial flaws, even people who hate the looks can easily forgive it. just like we have forgive countless syandanas and tennogens that doesn't really fit into warframe.
just think about it:

• it came with a couple of substantial flaws (obstructing views, clipping absolutely everywhere, disappearing mechanics doesn't perform consistently, etc.)
• but so many people love it, and willing to live with all the flaws. i mean who doesn't want to have wings? even i who hates mmo loves wings.
• which makes people who simply can't live with the flaws start nitpicking other flaws to justify their disappointment towards these item.

in a sense, they're unconsciously trying to convince those who willing to live with all the flaws, that there are other flaws that they shouldn't accept.

none of these need to happen if only DE put more thoughts into their products.
i mean, at the very least they definitely noticed the outrageous clippings but let em pass anyway. since OV it seems that DE have accepted that warframe is a clippy game. which should never be accepted in a game of warframe's level.

my conclusion is rather simple but hard to execute: fix the obstructing and clipping issues, i promise me and some others who currently hate the wings will fade out into the darkness.
seen some promising suggestion about having the wings folding on certain situations, that might work.

There is not a single universal cosmetic that doesn’t clip with SOMETHING. If DE had to make sure every single thing they released didn’t clip with anything else, we would never get cosmetics. Or they would be so streamlined and odd that no one would want them.

It’s simple, not every cosmetic is for every frame or every player. I detest this being a discussion in the first place, how you want to express yourself and decorate your frames is up to your own discretion.

A games “art style” doesn’t need to be the dominant force in every single cosmetic item said game has.

I also want to take a stand against this baffling argument of “wings = mmo” like... what? I will happily and without compunction decry that as actually stupid argumentation.

The Eros ephemera isn’t the first pair of wings in the game. They are the first wings that look like real wings. If people don’t like them, they don’t need to wear them.

HOWEVER, as soon as you start trying to dictate what other people can use, your intentions are laid bare. It’s nothing to do with the art style. It’s just the individual trying to force other people down to their own sensibilities. It’s detestable.

There’s a new cosmetic in the game, if anyone is that bothered by it, I invite you to gain a more substantive life, as this REALLY shouldn’t matter to you that much.

[Aadi880]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

I simply want them to not be extended all the time. They'd disappear the same for the wearer as they do now when aiming. Having them fold/extend would simply be there to make running less obstructed and to give them a more "realistic" interaction for those looking at you as you transition between running and aim-gliding. They could also extend during bullet jumps, make us look like a massive feathered blender. 

Fair enough, I suppose. I was wondering if I was experiencing far less bugs with the wings than other people, that I got an extremely different experience.

[0_The_F00l]

I am in agreement , 

I feel this is a sign of the end,

in the past at least,  there was this aesthetic vision of warframe where things felt "part of the universe" without breaking immersion and anything that tied up with real life events was temporary and taken in good humor , 

Now .... Now it feels the team has given up , whatever little backbone existed , to oppose turning the game into another fantasy mmorpg knockoff with ridiculous looks, has now been crushed. It now feels childish where before it was expected to be mature and gritty. 

And while there were always deluxe skin that blurred it a bit , the wings in my opinions are very much a white flag.

I expect the next events for holidays will have permanent additions to what was temporary in the past.

I am also of the opinion that "holiday special" items should have a visibility toggle for clients. For practical and aesthetic purposes.

[AndrejDelaney]

 

vor 10 Stunden schrieb SneakyErvin:

Grineer as they are now are not Orokin creations, what has happened to the Grineer is due to the Grineer themselves.

Without the Orokin Grineer wouldn't exist. They were and still are Orokin creations, nothing will ever change that. And I believe that the Orokin themselves believed their technology to be perfect - but look at Ordis. Look at the Orokin towers. Yes, look at the Grineer and the state they are in, right now (Shouldn't perfect technology also lead to perfect results that can withstand time?). Look at the Sentients and their rebellion against their creators who were - who would have thought - the Orokin. Doesn't look like perfect technology to me - because if it were, why did the Orokin empire fall? But I really don't want to get further into this, as it goes beyond the topic of this thread.

vor 10 Stunden schrieb SneakyErvin:

You can see the holographic nature of the wings due to the energy that constantly comes from them depending on your energy color.

So are all the Syandanas that have energy trails coming off them now also holographic? C'mon. 

vor 10 Stunden schrieb SneakyErvin:

They chose the typical look because it fits the theme of the event.

I already proposed 2 examples as to how you could have altered the look to fit the event AND the overall design of Warframe. 

Again: Classic, High Fantasy <-> Science Fiction. Two different things that follow two different design philosophies. You can mix and match to an extent and make it work - but not by simply glueing them to each other.

[(NSW)Smashbrolink]

I honestly don't care about how well they fit into the game theme-wise; my issue is, as a Switch player/NinTenno, the wings take up too much screen space when not aiming a gun, even at full 90 FoV.

The design was done poorly; either they should have a secondary half-folded form so that they aren't flared out in our faces all the time, or they should have a visibility toggle so that they can be adjusted to be see-through.

I'll keep my eye on these, but for now, they gotta go back into storage.

I can't go running around in these when they block so much screen space, the right wing especially.

Side note; any way to pull the camera away from us other than FoV adjustments?

[Aadi880]

14 minutes ago, (NSW)Smashbrolink said:

I honestly don't care about how well they fit into the game theme-wise; my issue is, as a Switch player/NinTenno, the wings take up too much screen space when not aiming a gun, even at full 90 FoV.

The design was done poorly; either they should have a secondary half-folded form so that they aren't flared out in our faces all the time, or they should have a visibility toggle so that they can be adjusted to be see-through.

I'll keep my eye on these, but for now, they gotta go.

I can't go running around in these when they block so much.

Side note; any way to pull the camera away from us other than FoV adjustments?

Not that I know of in Nintendo.

Though, as far as functionality speaking, the wings are supposed to completely disappear if there is any enemy in the tileset you are in. However, currently, there is a bug where this doesn't work for clients.

Works fine in solo mode tho.

[(NSW)Smashbrolink]

4 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Not that I know of in Nintendo.

Though, as far as functionality speaking, the wings are supposed to completely disappear if there is any enemy in the tileset you are in. However, currently, there is a bug where this doesn't work for clients.

Works fine in solo mode tho.

Yeah, that happens when I ADS.

But it's also an issue in none-combat zones; I can't even walk around my own orbiter without the right wing smacking my camera in the face, let alone places like Fortuna.

It's an amazing bit of fashion, but it DESPERATELY needs to be designed with a toggle option, in our menu, to fold into an M shape when not gliding, or even permanently.

[Tsukinoki]

Can someone please explain to me what is so wrong with these wings?  And why so many people are throwing a fit over something so small?

I have yet to see anyone come to the forums and yell and complain "There are neon pink rhinos with Sari Syandanas using titania idle animations!!!  How dare they ruin the immersion and art style of warframe!!!!!!!"  And honestly that is so much worse than the eros wings that we got.

[(NSW)Smashbrolink]

19 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Can someone please explain to me what is so wrong with these wings?  And why so many people are throwing a fit over something so small?

I have yet to see anyone come to the forums and yell and complain "There are neon pink rhinos with Sari Syandanas using titania idle animations!!!  How dare they ruin the immersion and art style of warframe!!!!!!!"  And honestly that is so much worse than the eros wings that we got.

Dunno how good PC players have it, but for console players like me [Switch], they obstruct the player's view, both in-mission when no enemies are near and not ADS-ing, and in none-combat zones like your orbiter and Fortuna.

It's mostly the right wing smacking the camera constantly, but both of them take up a lot of screen space to your sides; in-mission, I could see this making it difficult to proceed fast while still seeing threats, or special objects/collectibles, from a distance.

They'd just be better, both in style and gameplay flow, with a toggle in our appearance menu to shift them to an M-shaped "folded" animation, perhaps unfolding when gliding, but otherwise staying unobtrusively packed away on our backs.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Honestly a toggle for the doofy cosmetic holiday stuff would be great.

[Soy77]

10 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

 

There’s a new cosmetic in the game, if anyone is that bothered by it, I invite you to gain a more substantive life, as this REALLY shouldn’t matter to you that much.

The fact that you're bothered this much by people who're bothered by it, I'm afraid that your invitation can also be applied to yourself, my friend...

There’s a new cosmetic in the game, just like with everything in life: there will be supporters and naysayers. If anyone is that bothered by the fact that pros and cons always exists like ying and yang, I invite you to gain a more substantive life, as you REALLY shouldn’t defend one side that much.

Both sides on any war thought that they are the good guys. But truth is, the moment you took sides, you're already wrong. As a proof, I won't even defend this post. Say what you want, I won't reply. But give what i said a deep thought.