Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

The Eros Wings Ephemera and the design of Warframe


AndrejDelaney

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I doubt anyone would go buy a Nyx skin because they ended up with a fabulous Nyx in their group if they themselves never touch the frame. Just as I dont think anyone would go "no point buying that skin for my fav frame since others can just ignore to see it, so I'll just sit here and look plain all the same".

Well from personal experience and seeing quite a few comments what I wrote actually is a thing.

I personally went back to some frames simply because they got new skins and met with others who seemingly enjoyed the look of my frame and even said they will get that skin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Sace said:

Yeah, that's true. The seasonal stuff is free in the game, though. At least a toggle for that should be no problem.

Creating a toggle because a few vocal people want it is not a reason.

Especially when I think about how that wing was created someone so essentially putting in a toggle is pretty much just pooping on someone's works. Even if it didn't take that much time to make.

And further more if one cosmetic gets a toggle then DE has to deal with other ppl asking for more toggle option. This is pretty much the Umbra situation in small. Once Umbra finally came out everyone wanted to have an other Umbra of their favorite frame. Same would happen with the wings. If there would be a toggle on wings then someone will come and say "Since we got a toggle for x can we get a toggle for y?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 1 Minute schrieb JackHargreav:

Creating a toggle because a few vocal people want it is not a reason.

Especially when I think about how that wing was created someone so essentially putting in a toggle is pretty much just pooping on someone's works. Even if it didn't take that much time to make.

And further more if one cosmetic gets a toggle then DE has to deal with other ppl asking for more toggle option. This is pretty much the Umbra situation in small. Once Umbra finally came out everyone wanted to have an other Umbra of their favorite frame. Same would happen with the wings. If there would be a toggle on wings then someone will come and say "Since we got a toggle for x can we get a toggle for y?"

We already got multiple new toggles, including less visual effects from team mates and prime additions being able to be toggled off. Why stop at seasonal toggles again? Especially being able to turn off prime bits is a hilariously small thing compared to turning off completely out-of-place pumpkin heads or birdwings, yet here it is already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Sace said:

We already got multiple new toggles, including less visual effects from team mates and prime additions being able to be toggled off. Why stop at seasonal toggles again? Especially being able to turn off prime bits is a hilariously small thing compared to turning off completely out-of-place pumpkin heads or birdwings, yet here it is already.

Except there's an actual reason for that. Some primes will overlap the skins. Which is not exactly good when you buy a skin to use it as it was advertised. Plus as far I know It's not on every frame or cosmetic.

And btw Butterfly wings are still a thing. And they are used quite often. So I sorry but I don't see why some "bird wings" are suddenly bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Sace said:

We already got multiple new toggles, including less visual effects from team mates

This is likely to mitigate causing seizures...and it doesn't negate other players fashion choices.

3 minutes ago, Sace said:

and prime additions being able to be toggled off.

This was included because people spent money on tennogen and the behavior of tennogen with primes was later changed...the toggle restored the previous behavior.

Not a compelling argument for a wing/seasonal cosmetic toggle IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

vor 16 Minuten schrieb JackHargreav:

Except there's an actual reason for that. Some primes will overlap the skins. Which is not exactly good when you buy a skin to use it as it was advertised. Plus as far I know It's not on every frame or cosmetic.

And btw Butterfly wings are still a thing. And they are used quite often. So I sorry but I don't see why some "bird wings" are suddenly bad.

You don't get to decide what is an actual reason. There are people having issues with it, which makes it valid automatically. It is up to DE whether this actual reason gets addressed or not, which is why this thread exists in the first place.

You know why I don't take issue with Sari? Not only are they super rare, they fit in with the style of warframe way way way better, not only because of the materials used. On top of that, they cost real money to obtain which automatically means that, compared to the wings, they are super rare.

  

vor 12 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Elvenbane:

This is likely to mitigate causing seizures...and it doesn't negate other players fashion choices.

This was included because people spent money on tennogen and the behavior of tennogen with primes was later changed...the toggle restored the previous behavior.

Not a compelling argument for a wing/seasonal cosmetic toggle IMO.

A toggle for seasonal stuff does not negate other players fashion choices as well. They can marvel at their characters all they want, I can marvel at the vanilla experience, just how the developer envisioned it, all I want. Everybody wins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

So those with a valid reason behind wanting a certain QoL change should be punished because a few others may have a silly reason for that same QoL idea?

Like in this case of the wings. Several simply want to toggle it off since they are intrusive to gameplay while others want it simply so they dont have to see "animu wengz reee!". The valid concern of the intrusive issues far outweighs the "anime" or "theme" haters.

How is anyone being 'punished'? That's a slippery-martyr-slope IMO.

Having to see things in a game is now 'punishment'? Really?

1 hour ago, Sace said:

The point of my Gauss analogy was that nobody is qualified to devalue other opinions if they are not even remotely affected by the issue at hand.

We recently (nov 2020) got a toggle to reduce visual noise of other players, a toggle for seasonal content just plays further into this.

Aforementioned toggle should, by your reasoning, also not exist because it obviously goes against the developers original design choice and yet, here it is.

And we both know people can have opinions based on data w/o having first hand experience. I think murder is bad, for example.

My comment was simply an absurd example of where 'toggles to remove things players dislike' could go.

For example:

22 minutes ago, (PSN)Elvenbane said:

This is likely to mitigate causing seizures...and it doesn't negate other players fashion choices.

This was included because people spent money on tennogen and the behavior of tennogen with primes was later changed...the toggle restored the previous behavior.

Not a compelling argument for a wing/seasonal cosmetic toggle IMO.

See, it's not all about 'player aesthetic preference'.

I have seen calls like this in MMOs for years and years. IMO. it's like making people be forced to wear school uniforms so no one feels left out, or military uniforms so everyone knows which 'team' you are on, etc. "How dare you look different, how dare you have purple hair in an office". Sounds just like those people to me.

Ah, game forums, so much entertainment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Sace said:

You don't get to decide what is an actual reason. There are people having issues with it, which makes it valid automatically. It is up to DE whether this actual reason gets addressed or not, which is why this thread exists in the first place.

You know why I don't take issue with Sari? Not only are they super rare, they fit in with the style of warframe way way way better, not only because of the materials used. On top of that, they cost real money to obtain which automatically means that, compared to the wings, they are super rare.

Yes I do. As I just did. For me it's not a reason. And it's not gonna be.

And that Syandana being rare? Rare? Really? It's one of the most used ones. You can see it about 25% of the time. And once the hype dies off the wings will go away. So they won't be used that much probably.

Well at least you're right in one thing. It's up to DE whether they will create a toggle or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Some people prefer a classic look and not having others being able to interfear with that would be great.

I've had that thought before. Like a "vanilla" toggle that makes everything use default appearances. I'm not sure if I would use it or if it's really "necessary", but if Warframe was a more... challenging? game then the ability to view teammates with default appearances would make it easier to tell who and what is going on, which could be useful. It'd be really useful in a place like Conclave so you can tell what you're fighting, not that anyone else is going to care about that.

1 hour ago, (PSN)Elvenbane said:

Really? That's what I enjoy most about playing with others, seeing their cool or hideous creations is part of the fun.

That's the nice part about a toggle: not everyone feels the same way. You could keep enjoying cool or hideous creations, and people who don't care for it can avoid it. Everyone wins!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I would honestly support a toggle for everything possible when it comes to cosmetics. Some people prefer a classic look and not having others being able to interfear with that would be great. It would have no impact on the player tooting their new shiny skin since they'd still see it all the same on their frame, but it would be a great thing for everyone else in the group.

Just an option each for the different cosmetic options.

Attachments for other players: On/off

Syandana On/off

Ephemera On/off

Show classic skin On/off

Show classic colors On/off

etc.

Mesa Prime backwards chaps toggle off/on please!! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

Well from personal experience and seeing quite a few comments what I wrote actually is a thing.

I personally went back to some frames simply because they got new skins and met with others who seemingly enjoyed the look of my frame and even said they will get that skin.

So? That isnt an indication of a toggle changing anything since it will be up to each single player to use it. It would change nothing for me since I would very likely not use it except on ephemeras, much like how I toggle off elemental effects on weapons currently. We cant possibly know how it would actually effect the game since there is no precedence in the game, and we have no facts provided from other games to support the claim either that it would reduce sales.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 12 Minuten schrieb JackHargreav:

Yes I do. As I just did. For me it's not a reason. And it's not gonna be.

And that Syandana being rare? Rare? Really? It's one of the most used ones. You can see it about 25% of the time. And once the hype dies off the wings will go away. So they won't be used that much probably.

Well at least you're right in one thing. It's up to DE whether they will create a toggle or not.

It's perfectly fine for YOU to not see any reason to implement a toggle. You might want to stop arguing whether this is a valid reason for other people, then.

In my ~2800h of combined playtime I have rarely seen Sari in the wild apart from some meme Rhinos in hubs (maybe 5? probably less) and some Titanias. Furthermore, I do not think Sari is even remotely as bad as the featherwings because of what I said in my earlier post.

I would like some statistics on whether Sari really is one of the most used syandanas, please. I just scoured some hubs again and nobody wore Sari, basically as it always has been.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really don't see the huge deal over the Eros, considering the fact that it's not only seasonal but also not entirely out of the realm of possibility. Also, I find it somewhat strange that *now* we are questioning the art style in regards to seasonal items, or at least a single one that seems to stand out the most. And I'm not just talking about the bunny ears or candy cane scythes, I'm talking about the Day of the Dead skins and even that Festive Frost skin you can use and wear all year. It's not a new thing for seasonal items to be technically permanent, but I suppose since we got literal wings now, it's a different story since they are more obvious despite the also obvious thematic reasoning behind them.

I can concede on one thing, is that I feel like they could have been changed to be more 'bio-mechanical' or even appear similar to Ticker's neon wing decoration instead. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if they did do something where after this event or once February is over, in which the wings change into a different style in order to accommodate within a more 'universal' appearance (with perhaps a settings toggle to enable the seasonal appearance of items).

If there is one thing that peeves me about this, is people thinking that "Oh, so I guess TennoGen is a free-for-all now". There's a huge difference between limited-time event items and permanent market items, since the ladder would only apply to TennoGen for the most part. It also doesn't change that these are still seasonal items and those by default, along with other contemporary themes and designs, are not allowed through it as well. Plus, "wings" have already been accepted through TennoGen already, only in the form of not being so exact like the Eros.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

How is anyone being 'punished'? That's a slippery-martyr-slope IMO.

Having to see things in a game is now 'punishment'? Really?

No, their idea gets punished based on others having the same idea but due to another agenda. The whole idea shouldnt automatically turn bad just because a certain part of the community wants it for a very odd reason. Blocking it simply because of them effectively punishes the other part for no real reason and it keeps an actual issue unsolved, in this case the intrusive nature of the wings.

And having to see something that completely clutters up the rest of the game is indeed a punishment. Standing at Baro at times this weeked was like looking at a massive wall of paint where you couldnt distinguish what was what, it was just one big pile of paint and energy colors. Being able to turn that off and appriciate whatever was behind that wall would have been amazing!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Scruffel:

I really don't see the huge deal over the Eros, considering the fact that it's not only seasonal but also not entirely out of the realm of possibility. Also, I find it somewhat strange that *now* we are questioning the art style in regards to seasonal items, or at least a single one that seems to stand out the most. And I'm not just talking about the bunny ears or candy cane scythes, I'm talking about the Day of the Dead skins and even that Festive Frost skin you can use and wear all year. It's not a new thing for seasonal items to be technically permanent, but I suppose since we got literal wings now, it's a different story since they are more obvious despite the also obvious thematic reasoning behind them.

I can concede on one thing, is that I feel like they could have been changed to be more 'bio-mechanical' or even appear similar to Ticker's neon wing decoration instead. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if they did do something where after this event or once February is over, in which the wings change into a different style in order to accommodate within a more 'universal' appearance (with perhaps a settings toggle to enable the seasonal appearance of items).

If there is one thing that peeves me about this, is people thinking that "Oh, so I guess TennoGen is a free-for-all now". There's a huge difference between limited-time event items and permanent market items, since the ladder would only apply to TennoGen for the most part. It also doesn't change that these are still seasonal items and those by default, along with other contemporary themes and designs, are not allowed through it as well. Plus, "wings" have already been accepted through TennoGen already, only in the form of not being so exact like the Eros.

Thanks, I would have wished more people with your mindset would go into this discussion instead of just resorting to personal attacks, have a like. 😂

It is probably now being questioned because it became more intrusive to the style of warframe, especially since it is permanent. Having a single toggle for seasonal items should not hurt anybody. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

No, their idea gets punished based on others having the same idea but due to another agenda. The whole idea shouldnt automatically turn bad just because a certain part of the community wants it for a very odd reason. Blocking it simply because of them effectively punishes the other part for no real reason and it keeps an actual issue unsolved, in this case the intrusive nature of the wings.

And having to see something that completely clutters up the rest of the game is indeed a punishment. Standing at Baro at times this weeked was like looking at a massive wall of paint where you couldnt distinguish what was what, it was just one big pile of paint and energy colors. Being able to turn that off and appriciate whatever was behind that wall would have been amazing!

While I can agree with your outlook that games like this can have a lot of visual clutter in hubs, and many games make changes to improve performance though rendering fewer things, I do not see any of it as 'punishment', that sounds like OTT 'this change is a slap in the face...' kind of thing to me.

The game is not changed by the community, and IME just with this topic, the community happily eats itself over virtually anything at the drop of a hat, so the way gamers act at scale won't change based on anything DE does with WF.

Totally agree from the perspective of actually being able to kill pixels, if the wings interfere, fix that, or giving people seizures, etc., fix that.

But the idea that in the public areas I can just turn off the design choices of the other players because I am being 'punished' by seeing them is just a very controlling/OCD/overbearing opinion/outlook from a human, not a reason, IMO, to change the code.

If the portion of the player base that wants that change is enough DE thinks there is ROI, great, DE will do as they will, but IMO, the outlook still not something I see as a positive thing, because from my POV, it's enabling stagnation and suppressing creativity. Just my POV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Zimzala:

IME just with this topic, the community happily eats itself over virtually anything at the drop of a hat, so the way gamers act at scale won't change based on anything DE does with WF.

Just when I thought this couldn't get more hypocritical and dishonest...

If that is what you honestly cared about, you'd go away instead of happily stirring the pot.

  

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Zimzala:

But the idea that in the public areas I can just turn off the design choices of the other players because I am being 'punished' by seeing them is just a very controlling/OCD/overbearing opinion/outlook from a human, not a reason, IMO, to change the code.

Giving people a choice in how the game is displayed locally on their screen with literally no impact on anyone else is "very controlling" and "overbearing". Instead the game should go with the less controlling option of giving people no choice at all. Sure. That sounds like an opinion someone would honestly have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Just when I thought this couldn't get more hypocritical and dishonest...

If that is what you honestly cared about, you'd go away instead of happily stirring the pot.

I care about a lot of things, honestly, but no, not too deeply about the arguing of the minutiae within the games themselves, but more the reasons behind some of the POVs.

Giving a POV even slightly out of line with the group think, much less challenging where it comes from, does inspire severe backlash, I know that much, if that's what you think stirring the pot is, then I guess I do.

I like to know "why?", always have, always will, and when I make guesses people don't like about why they have POVs, they get mad sometimes. 🤷‍♂️

Why does everything have to be so binary anyway - "if that's all you cared about you'd" - really, the world is full of grey-gray.

I am human, therefore I am a hypocrite. I do try to be bluntly honest though.

Fun talk.

 

I think the 'design of WF' is whatever the developers add to it, by definition, not the restrictive, laid in stone, unchanging thing some players desire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Zimzala:

I care about a lot of things, honestly, but no, not too deeply about the arguing of the minutiae within the games themselves

And yet, here you are. Participating in the discussion, vehemently arguing one side, deliberately being rude, condescending and dismissive.

Do you know what it's called when people participate in a discussion they don't care about just to stir the pot?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

And yet, here you are. Participating in the discussion, vehemently arguing one side, deliberately being rude, condescending and dismissive.

Do you know what it's called when people participate in a discussion they don't care about just to stir the pot?

Uh, if we are going there, "too deeply" and "don't", not the same.

A large portion of the argument is also about the 'intended' design:

17 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I think the 'design of WF' is whatever the developers add to it, by definition, not the restrictive, laid in stone, unchanging thing some players desire.

Just because I don't care at a deep level about this specific toggle change, does not mean I don't care deeply about the players trying, IMO, to suppress/restrict/etc. the creative and whimsical things DE chooses to put in the game as 'against' the design.

It's not a binary world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Zimzala:

Just because I don't care at a deep level about this specific toggle change, does not mean I don't care deeply about the players trying, IMO, to suppress/restrict/etc. the creative and whimsical things DE chooses to put in the game as 'against' the design.

Well, if that is truly what you believe then you'll be happy to learn that what you so vehemently oppose here, a client-side toggle that only affects how things are displayed locally on the client won't suppress/restrict/etc. anything and won't affect the devs ability to be whimsy at all. Actually, it will even free them of threads like this one, because with the toggle there would be no more reason to oppose such a thing, because everyone who didn't want to see it could just turn it off. You can now happily walk away, knowing that this is all just a misunderstanding. You thought the toggle would limit the devs, but actually it turns out that it won't,

Unless of course you're just arguing for the sake of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I agree. And for some, it's not even about not being able to see, as people have admitted they just don't want "anime wings" because "that's not what warframes about" claiming the wings are basically for some new generation of players. 

They're basically doing some warframe boomer stuff "back in my day, we wouldn't have worn those stupid wings!"

 

I don’t agree with you often, but honestly thank you.

Took the words right or of my mouth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Krankbert said:

Well, if that is truly what you believe then you'll be happy to learn that a client-side toggle that only affects how things are displayed locally on the client won't suppress/restrict/etc. anything, so you can happily walk away, knowing that this is all just a misunderstanding.

Unless of course you're just arguing for the sake of it.

So binary. "If you don't fit into my box here, then you must fit this other box here."

It's a discussion board, are we not supposed to discuss things? Or is not agreeing to fit into your boxes against the forum rules?

How is basically saying "I don't want to look at the things you made for the game, create a toggle so I don't have to see your designs" not trying to suppress the creative output of DE artists and designers? 

"Just askin'"...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Zimzala:

How is basically saying "I don't want to look at the things you made for the game, create a toggle so I don't have to see your designs" not trying to suppress the creative output of DE artists and designers? 

"Just askin'"...

It's not trying to suppress the creative output because anyone can see that it obviously wouldn't suppress the creative output. It wouldn't affect DE artists and designers at all.

Now please explain why you think it would. Why would it "suppress the creative output of DE artists and designers" to not make random people look at it who don't want to. Is Netflix suppressing the creative output of Adam Sandler by not making me watch The Ridiculous 6 before allowing me to watch something else? Is the government of Mexico suppressing the creative output of DE artists and designers by not making Warframe accounts mandatory for all citizens? Is the Pope suppressing the creative output of DE artists and designers by not showing Warframe concept art during this year's Easter mass? I think we're on to a worldwide conspiracy to suppress the creative output of DE here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Sace said:

It is probably now being questioned because it became more intrusive to the style of warframe, especially since it is permanent.

Ehh... It's not really permanent in the same sense however. Yes, permanent in our inventories since the Eros Ephemera will not go away after Star Days, but not permanent in terms of acquisition since the event will go away as with many other seasonal events. TennoGen are always in the Market (unless you download via the standalone/Epic) by default, and less we forget, aren't made by DE rather by community artists. I think it's fair for them to have a word for accepting items into their game as long as it's not entirely restrictive.

Anyway, I can't wait for this discussion to be brought up again when the Thanksgiving event (that takes place in Cetus, calling it) comes around and the "Turken Ephemera" gets added.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...