What do you think about the rushing and trigger happy style?

[Aldain]

You'd see a little less rushing if the game wasn't so biased towards 1-button polykills.

If people had to actually engage with the game rather than rush past it because they can kill everything in a 100m radius with a sneeze, which makes everything a non-threat, they might actually pace themselves or put actual effort into anything.

But alas, that's what happens when you have this level of power creep, you're either the one nuking everything or the one just twiddling your thumbs waiting for the mission success screen to pop up.

[KitMeHarder]

44 minutes ago, Travis05 said:

since like you said there are no incentives to do things in a different way. I dont see the developers trying to incentivate more playstyles

The stealth affinity multiplier definitely encourages your style of play, and it's a nice rewarding change of pace. And it's basically how I've leveled up everything I can since Helminth came out.

But yes, it is in solo... but I'd guess most stealth things in games like WF are solo (quest), or they're infuriating as hell; Which is why people don't like Spy. It'd be one thing if you just got penalized, but a single slip up from a MR6 player cause the whole squad to fail.

[kapn655321]

23 minutes ago, Aldain said:

You'd see a little less rushing if the game wasn't so biased towards 1-button polykills.

Yup.

The gameplay loop is fun for that style, but underwhelming for the patient meticulous styles. That'd be easy enough to remedy.

I think the issue there would be not to make the benefits of one or the other exclusive to that playstyle alone. I love that Warframe can be played as a head-empty horde slaughter. I would also love if alternatively we could rob a place blind, hack consoles, toy with the enemies, stalk targets in each mission, etc.

[kapn655321]

24 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

The stealth affinity multiplier definitely encourages your style of play, and it's a nice rewarding change of pace. And it's basically how I've leveled up everything I can since Helminth came out.

But yes, it is in solo... but I'd guess most stealth things in games like WF are solo (quest), or they're infuriating as hell; Which is why people don't like Spy. It'd be one thing if you just got penalized, but a single slip up from a MR6 player cause the whole squad to fail.

This is where there needs to be some design. Like... if you fail the spy hack, what if the goal of the hack moved, or had to be reset somehow instead? Say the game re-inforces in a way that dis-incentivized brute force... like the Warden enemies, who are intended to be beefy, harder to brute force, and easier to stealth kill. Each screw up leans harder into this sort of unit.. getting the point across that, "Hey... brute force is making this harder for you. Stealth is making it easier. Try again, but stealthy."

[ShogunGunshow]

DE has been iterating away from precision, skill-based gameplay for years. They seem incapable of balancing it against the mass AoE-fest that they've created. 

Them's the breaks. Outriders is coming out soon, maybe that'll more suit your style.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Travis05:

I can come across as negative or whining or toxic. But im tired of the kind of playstyle the game is trying to promote lately. Everyone have a different tastes. So if you like it, nothing wrong with that. Just want to tell my experience, and then you can come with your own conclusions.

I usually play public always, and im tired of trying to compete with my team for kills. AOE weapons, nuke warframes...The map is clean in seconds, and im there with a hitscan weapon, looking like an idiot. I like sniper and precision, and frames that reward skill. However, with this game is almost impossible to use more than two braincells in most cases. Might as well just stay AFK and see my team clean the mission. 

You can say, play solo. But that is not the issue. That solution actually solves nothing, this is a mmorpg. The teamplay should feel good, not a borefest.

On the other hand, people hate anything that isnt extermination. My team today let me clear two of the three vaults in a spy sortie because they were too scared to fail. I literally waited 10 minutes in the third vault door until someone finally decided to step in.

This is what happens when you make people used to turn off their brains. 

I see people hate spy. If the developers decide to erase that, or focus only on extermination and forget everything about defense or the rest of the modes...thats the day im out of here. Idk how they will change things in the future, it seems they are mostly focused on railjack now. But the base game needs a good touch in my opinion. Less innovation and more rework.

 

 

 

The game never changed since its invention. Maybe in the first couple of weeks it may have been different, but I can safely say that this game is like this for 6+ years now. There is a button up there to make your games "invite only". This makes sure that you can play the game however you want it. You can do the mission as operator, without mods, without melee weapons, without sprint or without a keyboard. This way you get exactly what you want.

But do not try to make everyone else use your playstyle.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

This is on every game. You're gonna have to deal with it.

When I started a FF14 account people took off like race horses through the map and went straight to boss, one shotting fodder along the way. 

In call of Duty you'd obviously get kills stolen and people spawn camping.

There's always some slow guy that says "hey guys why can't we all slow down?!"

And it's always the same answers:

"We do this raid 11 times a day..."

"You're new, make a group or keep up"

"Play solo or find a friend if you want to play while admiring the scenery or opening every treasure chest"

Do you see the pattern? 

You control your own matches, stop trying to control a mass of people on the internet. You have tools to control your own surroundings.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, Travis05 said:

I can come across as negative or whining or toxic. But im tired of the kind of playstyle the game is trying to promote lately. Everyone have a different tastes. So if you like it, nothing wrong with that. Just want to tell my experience, and then you can come with your own conclusions.

I usually play public always, and im tired of trying to compete with my team for kills. AOE weapons, nuke warframes...The map is clean in seconds, and im there with a hitscan weapon, looking like an idiot. I like sniper and precision, and frames that reward skill. However, with this game is almost impossible to use more than two braincells in most cases. Might as well just stay AFK and see my team clean the mission. 

You can say, play solo. But that is not the issue. That solution actually solves nothing, this is a mmorpg. The teamplay should feel good, not a borefest.

On the other hand, people hate anything that isnt extermination. My team today let me clear two of the three vaults in a spy sortie because they were too scared to fail. I literally waited 10 minutes in the third vault door until someone finally decided to step in.

This is what happens when you make people used to turn off their brains. 

I see people hate spy. If the developers decide to erase that, or focus only on extermination and forget everything about defense or the rest of the modes...thats the day im out of here. Idk how they will change things in the future, it seems they are mostly focused on railjack now. But the base game needs a good touch in my opinion. Less innovation and more rework.

 

 

 

And surely you realize even without AOE, people can still fight over kills with single target weapons. All you have to do is rapidly shoot bullets while aiming fast. It's not that hard......

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

Gonna echo a lot of comments here, there's no incentive to not rushing and blasting everything.  Sure, someone brought up the stealth kill multiplier, but that's it.  And even that's super unreliable in my experience.  I've had cases where I took out five guys in full view of others, and the game didn't care.  Other times where I sniped a single guy alone and the game decided that was over the line and ended the combo.

But even if it was perfectly reliable, it's still just affinity/focus.

To "fix" this "problem" (if it's really a problem in need of fixing) it would likely require a massive overhaul of the game, or another largely disconnected piece of content like Railjack.

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

Sigh....

When Warframe first launched on Xbox, the game was more towards stealth and playing as a NINJA. Players would load into a mission and ask what type of style we were going for in the mission. Most starting on Xbox had a choice of Excal and Loki and Mag IIRC so the "go all out and kill all" mentality was not born yet. Only players that had Rhino were those who bought him or PC migrated. This meant that players could not do the CoD type of play. We had to have strategy and use the scanners to see enemies around corners, check our playstyles of Rush n Attack, and use our brains to think.

As the player base grew and the skill pool got drained more and more, Clans started promoting that certain ways would be played instead of thinking...just get a Rhino and put on Iron Skin and go shoot everything. Not much else to do since its the easiest and fastest way to do things. Forget searching for the Rare stuff that DE put in the game to be found- just get to Extraction ASAP. And for a while, these playstyles fought and flourished during the starting years...until DE had to start making the game more towards the kids and attention span of 10 minute then bored types of players.

Taking your time in the game does give better rewards but when a player can run a mission 20 times in 1 minute and get a bunch of rewards they dont care about, running a mission for 20 minutes where you get better stuff seems a waste of time to that mindset. Yeah, you got that part you were looking for in that time of being in a mission for 20 minutes...but i did 19 more missions and got other things aside from the one item i wanted. I am faster. 

Players today are all about the fast and fruitless esp in Pubs. They have gone through the times of having Ember come into a mission and destroy everything on the tileset. They have AOE that smash things spawning in before the AI can move the enemies. They are used ton getting OP weapons that everyone scrambles for before DE nerfs and releases the next OP weapon. They dont see the game as a game but more of a grind/chore they have to do...and that is where the playerbase has to take the blame for. 

 

[kapn655321]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

it would likely require a massive overhaul

Nope... at least I don't believe so.

I mentioned earlier that there could be a logistics unit enemy type. Someone that restocks/appreciates the loot in mission for meticulous players. We all know it's vastly more profitable to just plow through a survival, than it is to loot every locker, break every container, etc. Raising alarm doesn't matter if you can brute force.. etc.

1 change would fix this dynamic: A unit that assesses and replenishes facilities, when alarm/threat levels are consistently clear. Someone who cleans up loot, busted containers, and bodies.. who restores the facility to working order.

Think of a Drudge Foreman with a scavenger drone.. who is super sensitive to threats, restocks lockers, calls in new units, upgrades alarms, etc. This alone could be all it takes to make a slow stealth grind into a stalker game of cat and mouse with scaling payoff.

[RazerXPrime]

I never play with publics. I only play with friends, my clan and mostly solo. I wouldn't care about a pub match with people doing random stuff and ruining my experience.

Also this isn't an MMO. Not by a long shot. It's a single player shooter with coop for 4 as an option.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

public games are a metafest, always have been. what we need are modes that encourage stealth play and other tactics than run in, nuke, repeat. doing Spy Missions stealthily is kinda fun, but good luck finding people to share the joy with. 

[GEN-Son_17]

11 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

Not quite.

You could spend a mission stealth killing everything and robbing the place blind.. but ultimately everything you get pales in comparison to having barrelled through a survival with a loot crew.

I used to play like this.. but the game's loot economy balance is NOT sustainable this way, whatsoever. It would take years to earn the loot for throw away weapons this way! Spending 30 minutes crawling a single base, compared to twiddling your thumbs behind a Khora in a hallway on survival, is in no way on the same footing. That's kind of a problem to players who want to be 'ninjas.'

OP isn't focused on loot. OP likes the gunplay that hitscan weapons provide. The interest in "optimal loot efficiency" is a distant second. That said, CoD is closer to that type of game, hence me saying there are a wide variety of player types in Warframe.

I, for example, love to play as a defense/support or chaos player and favor cc based weapons and frames. Maximum dps doesn't interest me as much as having fun and keeping the squad buffed. I love RPGs and gravitated to that playstyle here in Warframe.

[kapn655321]

1 minute ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

OP isn't focused on loot...
...Maximum dps doesn't interest me as much as having fun and keeping the squad buffed.

Same. What I mean to convey is that, if you play appropriate to these fun styles, you suffer drastically by comparison.. not because the concern is to have everything and so on.. but that the basic loot economy of the game is balanced for loot plows.

Like, if you want to crawl a facility meticulously, you can, and it's fun.. but it will also take you absolute decades to afford your way up to MR30 for instance.

This is why I mention incentive playing such a role in why the only people playing like this do so out of passion, at their own detriment. Essentially, the more you play like a ninja, the longer you stay stuck behind the difficulty curve with crud weapons that can't do late game.

[o0Despair0o]

12 hours ago, Travis05 said:

and im tired of trying to compete with my team for kills

Stop trying, then.

 

Seriously, you can't expect people to change their playstyle because "muh kills".

Heck, I've had people accuse me of kill-stealing when I didn't even move yet, just because I was on a higher MR.

There's always gonna be someone who's gonna have a problem with other players, for literally no reason.

 

Don't try to compete with them.

[DrivaMain]

This is one of the side effects of grinding. Because grind is the only way to progress in Warframe without paying. Players look for the most efficient way to reduce grinding. Even if that takes the “engagement” out of the gameplay.

You know the famous saying :

”Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of your game”

There is no way to stop this “braindead” play style without taking grind entirely, but we all know DE doesn’t want that.

[GEN-Son_17]

2 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Same. What I mean to convey is that, if you play appropriate to these fun styles, you suffer drastically by comparison.. not because the concern is to have everything and so on.. but that the basic loot economy of the game is balanced for loot plows.

Like, if you want to crawl a facility meticulously, you can, and it's fun.. but it will also take you absolute decades to afford your way up to MR30 for instance.

This is why I mention incentive playing such a role in why the only people playing like this do so out of passion, at their own detriment. Essentially, the more you play like a ninja, the longer you stay stuck behind the difficulty curve with crud weapons that can't do late game.

Ahhh, 10-4. That also explains why I'm still not MR30 yet. Lol!

It would be awesome to have an "explorer" bonus reward for things like clearing all in-mission loot crates or scan all in-mission plants. Those gains would come as additional xp (perhaps a one time deal per node for standard and again for Steel Path), enhanced credits and a guaranteed rare resource bonus, based on the rare resource the node offers. Other bonus opportunities can come from headshot kill counts that could act as slightly watered down versions of the stealth bonuses. Rewarding skill and exploration is always a great idea.

[Sace]

Sadly, this game moved more and more away from the original ninja-esque playstyle to flashy mass murderer style. I think this is a direct consequence of powercreep and failing to further encourage stealth gameplay. Not much to do unless DE decides to completely revamp the game from the ground up.

Every mission, actually catered to 4 people, can be done half-asleep by one alone. There is not even difficulty scaling based on team size. To mitigate this, Frames would have to be made much slower, more fragile, many nerfed ability-wise and maybe implement some kind of role system (ie. sniper with powerful weapon, hacker, demo expert and tank with weak weapon or whatever) for each mission to actually ensure that everyone gets to do at least something. They kind of tried this with Railjack but the content is already trivial enough to just enable afk-ing again and people are already crying that they want npcs to solo it all (everything is already solo-able given that you unlock some stuff for you RJ)

As others have said, I think you need to play this game solo if you don't want to get the rewards without playing the game.

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

11 hours ago, Aldain said:

You'd see a little less rushing if the game wasn't so biased towards 1-button polykills.

If people had to actually engage with the game rather than rush past it because they can kill everything in a 100m radius with a sneeze, which makes everything a non-threat, they might actually pace themselves or put actual effort into anything.

But alas, that's what happens when you have this level of power creep, you're either the one nuking everything or the one just twiddling your thumbs waiting for the mission success screen to pop up.

This isn't metal gear solid. I'm sorry we're not in 2013 warframe anymore, but you have to move on.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

46 minutes ago, Sace said:

Sadly, this game moved more and more away from the original ninja-esque playstyle to flashy mass murderer style. I think this is a direct consequence of powercreep and failing to further encourage stealth gameplay. Not much to do unless DE decides to completely revamp the game from the ground up.

Every mission, actually catered to 4 people, can be done half-asleep by one alone. There is not even difficulty scaling based on team size. To mitigate this, Frames would have to be made much slower, more fragile, many nerfed ability-wise and maybe implement some kind of role system (ie. sniper with powerful weapon, hacker, demo expert and tank with weak weapon or whatever) for each mission to actually ensure that everyone gets to do at least something. They kind of tried this with Railjack but the content is already trivial enough to just enable afk-ing again and people are already crying that they want npcs to solo it all (everything is already solo-able given that you unlock some stuff for you RJ)

As others have said, I think you need to play this game solo if you don't want to get the rewards without playing the game.

 

And if everyone wants to be a sniper? 

[Sace]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (PSN)Madurai-Prime:

And if everyone wants to be a sniper? 

Then the 4 sniper-squad gets mechanics to advance regardless, but much more tedious (for example opening a locked door with weaker grenades which takes 5 minutes instead of 5 seconds while having to defend themselves or forcing a detour to 4 side objectives with no reward) and/or with significantly less rewards at the end of the mission.

Or the mission only advances to the first locked door and results in an autofail. :)

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

13 minutes ago, Sace said:

Then the 4 sniper-squad gets mechanics to advance regardless, but much more tedious (for example opening a locked door with weaker grenades which takes 5 minutes instead of 5 seconds while having to defend themselves or forcing a detour to 4 side objectives with no reward) and/or with significantly less rewards at the end of the mission.

Or the mission only advances to the first locked door and results in an autofail. :)

So basically forced co op and forcing people to be certain frames, keeping them hostage under threat of less rewards. 

Thank you for not designing games. 

[Sace]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (PSN)Madurai-Prime:

So basically forced co op and forcing people to be certain frames, keeping them hostage under threat of less rewards. 

Thank you for not designing games. 

First off I said ROLES, not FRAMES, so your point is already invalid. Roles could easily be tied to equipment and/or weapons

These are just suggestions, I specifically said "AND/OR", these ideas can always be fleshed out. Of course there should be downsides if everyone wants to be the sniper because this constellation is less efficient.

Another Example: you are less likely to win in OW if everyone sits on their DPS and that game is successful as well. Please don't act like this idea is completely impossible to implement.

Basically anything is better than mechanics that reward being afk, that offer nothing to newer people or people not employing the current one-click-delete-room-weapon and generally just consist of rushing from objective to objective leaving nothing to do for whoever is not fast enough.

Your passive-aggressiveness is entirely unwarranted. Thank you.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

20 minutes ago, Sace said:

First off I said ROLES, not FRAMES, so your point is already invalid. Roles could easily be tied to equipment and/or weapons

These are just suggestions, I specifically said "AND/OR", these ideas can always be fleshed out. Of course there should be downsides if everyone wants to be the sniper because this constellation is less efficient.

Another Example: you are less likely to win in OW if everyone sits on their DPS and that game is successful as well. Please don't act like this idea is completely impossible to implement.

Basically anything is better than mechanics that reward being afk, that offer nothing to newer people or people not employing the current one-click-delete-room-weapon and generally just consist of rushing from objective to objective leaving nothing to do for whoever is not fast enough.

Your passive-aggressiveness is entirely unwarranted. Thank you.

They're possible to implement....on a completely different game. Nice try though. It's really not gonna happen.