Jump to content

Could 2021 finally be the year that Nekros would get his rework.

Recommended Posts

Am 14.2.2021 um 22:47 schrieb Flustershy:

If you don't care to read, As this will be a longer post, The suggested changes are in bold with few other things.

also Shadows Of The Dead will be called SOTD or 4 from this point onward


While it was nice that DE changed soul punch to be little better a while back, Could Nekros finally get the last push and get his 2 and 4 to be remotely useful.

As a Nekros main ever since he shipped back in update 10 , I loved his kit, Even though back then outside his number 3 the kit was real bad, True there have been other  good candidates for reworks such as Vauban, Nyx, Ember and the likes, Meanwhile Nekros has gotten 2/4 parts of rework done in very small increments for some reason.

First was the desecrate change for making it an aura instead of spam cast, that was good, 1 power done out of 4 good job DE, Then came small QoL changes to his number 4, Not very meaningful but I'll take anything DE gives at that point, But we will talk about his 4 later, Nekros also got the passive skill and some stat boosts during this time which is a bonus so no complaining.

Lastly for changes we have the soul punch changes, While not groundbreaking for a number 1 power they were good enough so for now at least his number 1 is also in a good enough of a place.


2/4 powers done and this only took 7 years.... well anyway back to the topic at hand.

So now lets talk about the elephants in the room.

His 2 and 4

Since terrify is an easier fix I'll start with that one.


Terrify Is one of the few skills in warframe which has both a range and max units affected cap, If memory serves Vauban's bastille used the be the 2nd one, but now as they turn into vacuums with no unit limit when the bastille ends terrify is the only skill in game that has both range and affected units cap.

This could have been a balance choice back in 2013, But now its just a line of code saying F u for playing Nekros for something else than a loot slave.

Terrify is also one of the few power with the ability to still ''troll'' or slow down certain missions as to how the power works, Oh you used terrify in defense mission, time to run around at the ends of the map to pick up those enemies running away from the objective where your whole team is, Oh there are no power cells nearby for extractors, Go look 400 meters away in a backroom where the carrier ran of to, Not only are the running enemies slowing down most missions actively, Fleeing enemies move unpredictably making shooting them very annoying with certain weapons. But they also seem to get slight movement speed bonus from terrify (5-10 %) or that's how it seems when they run in panic.


But were not done with terrify just yet, Besides making targets flee, Terrify also reduces armor, Which is nice but then you consider how it never stacked same way as multiple corrosive projections did for example, The armor reduction was and still is virtually useless against corpus and infested, Meanwhile something like Loki's radial disarm which has been in the game since launch has a damaging effect to melee enemies to compensate it a little so its not useless against certain factions.


So a vanilla frame has a skill with adaptive options for multiple factions while a frame from update 10 has not.

And yes creeping terrify helps the skills making it more useful against all factions, But even with the augment the power still has a dead component for most enemies, And has arbitrary unit limit, while much more powerful CC powers do not and are tied only how far their range goes.


And as a last note, The soul punch changes clearly came with the helminth system, I am 99% certain that DE looked at the stats saw how soul punch was Nekros's most replaced ability and worked based on that, But DE clearly didn't look at the data on how many times someone imbued Terrify on other frames, Because if they did both powers would have gotten buffs.


Now for the fixes, Terrify is really easy to fix.

1st Remove the affected units cap.

2nd Change the armor reduction into 20-30% bonus dmg for all factions, or apply this affect if no armor is present.

3rd If the enemy goes too far from Nekros they fall to the ground covering in fear (there literally are animations in game where the enemies take cover and try to protect themselves)

The first 2 are the more important ones, and the 3rd is just to prevent the ability from actively hindering you and your team in kill focused missions, And the augment can stay as it is.

Alright were done with terrify, And oh lord that was the shorter one...


SOTD might just be the most useless, Energy hungry, Kill inefficient, Skill in the game, But its also one of the Coolest and most unique skill in the game.

Back in 2013 the concept of doing what Nyx does with her mind control but you know times 7 sounded awesome, And even in current day it still does, having things like 7 Dargyn air support in plains of eidolon is only doable with Nekros, Or The ability to create a shadow Dargyn you can ride yourself, Or summoning friendly grineer fighters in railjack missions to fight enemy ships, There was even a time when Nekros could revive himself and team mates with his ultimate, Those are few examples how much you can/could do.

( Though DE likes to nerf the cooler things at times, but there are ways to circumvent those at times)


But besides said cool things, otherwise SOTD is just plainly a bad skill.

Skip to next line past this one if you want to skip warframes AI summary


First of all the biggest issue with SOTD is that its an AI skill, And well the AI in warframe is pretty bad as they are coded to hit players not each other, Few examples of this brilliant AI being, 2 enemies looking at each other behind cover while taking pot shots and neither one hits, Melee shadows missing hits on enemies standing still, Random Inaccuracy out of no where, Random magazine capacity sometimes reloading after few shots, sometimes shooting more than the gun has in mag.

(And yes I have counted things like how many times can a shield lancer shoot with a Marelok, My personal best is 23 rounds before having to reload and Marelok has a mag of 6 for those who didn't remember)

And that is just the actions the AI is doing, This does not count their dmg performance, While certain shadows do lot more damage than others and even with the soul punch changes, There is only so little the player can do when it comes to deploying your shadows. A tusk predator can out dps 3 mortar bombards alone, But tusk predator is a low value soul, So you most likely wont get to deploy one without soul punch, And naturally this was not an option until recently.

Other issue with SOTD unit aim is that if there are enemies that have weak spots, SOTD unit may or may not shoot at said spots, Usually they only hit weak spots due to their inaccuracy or the enemy moving in front of the projectiles, Otherwise SOTD units basically just standing around doing nothing when fighting things like Nox's or Bursas.

But that's not the only issue, The performance is even worsened when the levels go up, Enemy armor scales much more than enemy dmg ever does, On lower levels 20-45 the 2.5-5x dmg multiplier works nicely, But after that point the shadows lose efficiency rapidly, You would think that a power which scales based on killed enemy levels would do better in higher levels, Well it does not, For example around lvl 120, 3 shadow heavy gunners cannot kill a same tier heavy gunner before their HP drains away and they die, As they do things like get staggered from a single impact proc, or change targets and start their spool up sequence again, same goes for corpus techs.

And to top it all of is that factions own guns usually are bad against said faction, Units like bombards which SOTD favors do blast damage which is resisted by all types of grineer expect machinery A.K.A ROLLERS Known for being the most dangerous grineer unit in the faction.

And on corpus side of things, You never get things like shield drones (soul punch buffs helps with this now) Instead you get things like fusion moas and corpus Techs, While fusion moas do heat damage and can stack the proc to good effect, They also get staggered/knocked constantly due to wanting to rush heavy units, They also miss calculate their range and shoot at air, Or they do this weird T bag emote while being shot at only to get staggered by an impact proc and trying to do it again.

Techs on the other hand have decent DPS (at best) if they could shoot their guns, Not only does the inaccuracy heavily affect guns like Supra, They also stop their max spool fire to reload for no reason, 30-40 rounds in and they reload, And the Shadow versions are really reluctant to drop the shield ospreys unlike their normal variants do, Because they need to lose both shields and health for them to use the ability, But they usually just decay of passive HP loss and never drop a drone.

As for infested, Its nice to get a healer ancient for the aura it provides, But I don't need 5 of them when I cast SOTD, And things like Ancient disruptor and Toxin ancient auras have almost no use at all, And all 3 are favored summons for SOTD Other big brain summons are things like crawlers which never catch anything, Or infested moas which jump, And jump again because infested like to get close doing practically nothing.


SO yeah and that is just the AI issues SOTD as a power is well a ''HIGH MAINTENANCE'' to say the least.

You cannot sacrifice on STR or you lose hp and dmg multipliers.

Duration governs how often you need to spam your number 4 to heal up your shadows if you don't want them to die of old age in 30 seconds.

Efficiency is self explanatory, So not having lot of that will also burn trough your energy ( also considering Desecrates Hp/energy need you can't sac that too much either)

Range is the only thing you can really give up, But that only affects all other powers you have, So unless you're making a pure SOTD build enjoy not wanting to sacrifice range either.

Also there is a 5th attribute unique to SOTD not found in other powers in game and that is souls, Nekros can hold up to 20 souls at a time, When the list is full the earlier kills will be dropped out, Even if they were units such as Eximus units or heavy units, If you didn't summon them in time you lose their respective souls, Souls also in this list are placed into value categories, High Medium Low, And SOTD favors always high category even when better units such as tusk predators and scorches are in medium and low categories, And as a extra annoyance, If your team mates kill something, You do not get said soul even if you damaged the unit, Meaning that if there are frames like Saryn, Equinox or Mesa running around, SOTD passively loses effectiveness if your team mates are fast at killing, Again a redundancy that no other power really has in game.


Many other ultimate abilities in warframe allow far greater optimization than SOTD, Due to them being simpler in function most of the time, And being more effective 100% of the time, Besides atlas's golems, But even the rock boys can throw their stone heads to stagger enemies, Something SOTD units cannot.

And to top it all of, Wukong's number 1 power, Is just better SOTD in any way, It has perfect accuracy, Does more dmg, Can do melee or range combat, has CC augment, automatically recalls to you, Can be given priority commands, Can heal itself, Can use all of wukong skills, Has wall hacks, Is more aggressive, HAS INFINITE DURATION, Has more armament roles it can fill, And can even be high fived.


As for SOTD augment, Its fine I suppose, Could use some work too or perhaps  a brand new one, As over the years things like stat boosts, shield gate, umbral mods, The passive skill, And healing skills from helminth himself and other Hp regen mods have made Shield of Shadow bit redundant.


Now after that long and painful summary is over for the harder part, Fixing SOTD.


1st Remove the health decay, Either Have it gone for good, Or have Atlas style timer which you can recast, The HP drain just reduces the Shadows already poor combat efficiency.

2nd Give Shadows that aimbot Wukong's clone has, And melee units could also use the more aggressive AI like atlas rumblers have for example)

3rd Give the ability to paint targets same way as wukongs clone can for extra dmg, Tap to mark, hold to recast and heal shadows.

4th Have shadows follow Nekros more or have the target paint ability be able to be cast on terrain to make shadows move to painted location.

5th Give melee shadows stagger/ stun resistances When fighting against grineer and corpus the shadows tend to get stun locked and bullied to death most of the time

6th Either Pump up the DMG bonus for SOTD, Or give them Revenant style adapt dmg type of deal (corpus shadows get extra magnetic dmg, Infested get gas, etc)


As a quick statement, While I don't want Nekros ulti to be 7 wukong clones, the 6th point is still there because even a Nyx mind control unit with mind freak having 1000% bonus dmg, does jack all against In high lvl content unless its a right unit against another right enemy unit, But if the first 4 are given, its at least hell of a lot better, also the shadows still wouldn't get access to warframe weapons with mods and static 2x dmg boost, So having SOTD give them 8x dmg bonus is still nothing compared what Wukong gets for his NUMBER 1.


So if you made it this far, I want to thank you whoever you are reading this, There are typos I'm sure, And I'll apologize for those as English is not primary language.

And naturally just because I am a Nekros main this doesn't make a game developer, The changes I proposed here Especially with the AI parts, Aren't just ''oh just change value from 0 to 1'' which I understand, But most of these could be done in 10 minutes or less at least the terrify changes and I'm going to be honest here, I'm kinda mad that it took 7 years to get Nekros to this point, Aka 50% complete.

Also my plan is not to make Nekros be the best frame or some perfect jack of all trades frame, The goal is just to remove stupid redundancies that Nekros has what other frames with similar powers do not, And these changes wouldn't change the core role of what Nekros excels at, Just makes him more fun to play, And gives him more reasons to be played than just, Oh look ''loot''

And I know that 99,9% chance this topic won't make a difference, That this will never reach eyes of a DE employer, But at least I did what I could instead of crying in public chat saying how ''X Thing bad''

Naturally If you disagree with my points, Feel free to comment about it, Personally I'd like to hear thoughts of other Nekros mains out there (if there are any left at this point) But any feedback in from anyone is welcome as it does signal boost this to DE.


Thx for reading and hope 2021 will be a good year for Warframe, Sincerely a Nekros main of 7 years.



I think the suggestions are great!

i don't like 4th at all. i switched from diablo 2 with mods to warframe and there are skeletons with me all the time. similar to pets or wukong 1st.

this constant re-casting just annoys me. Above all, the things are not strong at all and bring nothing at all apart from blocking and damaging red. max str? yes of course ... I kill everything much, much, much faster myself.
In addition, necros can be equipped with so much defense that 4th cannot be used at all. Nobody gets me dead in SP. unless I'm AFK in the middle of the room.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Create New...