Arcane Helmets in Nightwave?

[DogsConkers]

I don't see much danger in re-introducing these as they don't really offer a major benefit and the 2nd arcane slot on the warframe is disabled when in use.

There may be some niche benefit use for them but if it had been a major one the prices for these would be astronomical. Sure they're pricy to acquire but I think it's something a 'completionist' would want rather than someone looking for an edge.

For this arcane helmet the only benefit I can think of for having a slightly longer aim glide time would be in cracking a specific riven even though there are better ways to crack that one.

[Krankbert]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Voltage:

I don't want to re-open the Primed Chamber discussion, but you can read up on it here:

As for this topic on Arcane Helmets, I really want to give DE the benefit of the doubt and say it's a mistake. If it is not a mistake, then this would be very disrespectful to the value of the item

Well, my personal opinion is that all the greedy bastards who want to keep items out of the game solely so other people can't have them can go screw themselves. It's selfish, egotistical and disrespectful to the entire player base.

[Voltage]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

If it pisses off some people then by all means let it stay

That has to be the most toxic take on this discussion as possible.

[--TL--Sui]

As someone with a full Arcane Helmet collection, i really hope this is just a bug and they're not actually re-releasing all of them. Time will tell i guess

[Drachnyn]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Voltage:

I don't want to re-open the Primed Chamber discussion, but you can read up on it here:

As for this topic on Arcane Helmets, I really want to give DE the benefit of the doubt and say it's a mistake. If it is not a mistake, then this would be very disrespectful to the value of the item and the original statement on their retirement. It would also open DE to criticism of incorporating Arcane Helmet stats into the Arcane Slot system as that is what happened in Shrine of the Eidolon: Update 22.14.0 as per:

Zitat

Upon logging in, all Arcanes installed on Cosmetics/Helmets will be Distilled because Arcanes can no longer be installed on Cosmetics/Helmets.

• Old Legacy Arcane Helmets will keep their Arcane installed but you can not equip the Legacy Arcane Helmet on a Warframe with 2 Arcanes already installed.

Likewise, given these items are referred to as "Legacy" seems that DE did not intend on ever releasing these in the future. That is just my interpretation of DE's actions over the years regarding these items and I am going out on a limb and saying that most players who got into Arcane Helmets can agree that these are retired items.

I am pretty sure I commented in that thread myself. I dont see how it is disrespectful. The helmets were obtained through either market or from random alerts. Anyone buying them afterwards for idiotic prices really only has themselves to blame for throwing their plat into the abyss.

[Voltage]

Just now, Krankbert said:

Well, my personal opinion is that all the greedy bastards who want to keep items out of the game just so other people can't have them can go screw themselves.

This is a very poor outlook on respecting player time investment. That's the whole reason these Arcane Helmets were even allowed to exist in the first place, because players spent time and/or Platinum on them when they had stats. Respecting players is important, and I feel DE could earn some good will by having that mindset when it comes to items like these as well as current systems like Riven Mods. People aren't automatically greedy for asking DE to respect item acquisition and information. Like I said, a proper statement on this is required before jumping the gun.

[--TL--Sui]

4 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Well, my personal opinion is that all the greedy bastards who want to keep items out of the game solely so other people can't have them can go screw themselves. It's selfish, egotistical and disrespectful to the entire player base.

No one is keeping Arcane helmets out of the game, there's still plenty of supply out there for anyone who truly wants them, unlike with pre-Baro Primed Chamber, so this is by no means a fair comparison. All this does is making a rare but obtainable item worthless all of a sudden.

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb Voltage:

This is a very poor outlook on respecting player time investment. That's the whole reason these Arcane Helmets were even allowed to exist in the first place, because players spent time and/or Platinum on them when they had stats.

Claiming that "respecting players is important" is disingenious when you want to keep items out of the game just so they're expensive for anyone who wasn't playing in 2014.

[Tesseract7777]

12 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I would like to see that myself. I made a concept for that a long time ago, and I feel like it would be a great system to add for min-max players. I mean, we have Helminth now, so 15% power strength on your Chroma or Mirage won't break the game.

I think something like this would be the best solution. 

I don't even mind doing something like this while still leaving the old helmets as they are for those who have them as a collectors item. 

But no item that affects stats should be permanently unavailable to players imo at least in the form of the raw stats it provides, and if they are going to add them to the game, they should be arcane effects that are balanced enough that can be used across any WF, and are in the form of a regular arcane. 

There is literally a finite number of them still in the game that can even be traded, and with many old players no longer playing, that number decreases so much it reaches a point where it becomes not just a matter of price, it becomes a matter of an item that can affect stats reaching a point where one day it is literally unobtainable in any way, shape or form. 

 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

27 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

If it pisses off some people then by all means let it stay

I love it when the gatekeeping old vets get angry and throw tanturms,  ah primed chamber in baro was a fun time here....memories 

[Voltage]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

I am pretty sure I commented in that thread myself. I dont see how it is disrespectful. The helmets were obtained through either market or from random alerts. Anyone buying them afterwards for idiotic prices really only has themselves to blame for throwing their plat into the abyss.

So is it players' fault for diving into Railjack early and wasting their time on 2% Vidar Reactor drops? Lich Ephemeras? Blazing Step Ephemera? Crafting Cetus Arcanes before the blueprints became free? Investing into Riven Mods? Collecting Artax Riven Mods?

You really can't blame a player for purchasing an item that has limited quantity because DE dictated it as such. That is supply and demand in a trading system. The reason Arcane Helmets were expensive was a result of Hotfix 13.2.3 that retired the item. The same goes for how Primed Chamber had insanely limited supply, and the same goes for various drops that get changed later. It's all the same. Respecting player investment is something DE is responsible for at every turn, and yes, you cannot always respect every minute or penny of a players' investment, but it should atleast be acknowledged when changing anything in the game. That is something that took place in the Hotfix that retired the item, and it should take place now as well.

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Voltage:

So is it players' fault for diving into Railjack early and wasting their time on 2% Vidar Reactor drops? Lich Ephemeras? Blazing Step Ephemera? Crafting Cetus Arcanes before the blueprints became free? Investing into Riven Mods? Collecting Artax Riven Mods?

Yes. If you can't deal with an item being changed at a later date, go play an offline game.

  

vor 1 Minute schrieb Voltage:

You really can't blame a player for purchasing an item that has limited quantity because DE dictated it as such. That is supply and demand in a trading system. The reason Arcane Helmets were expensive was a result of Hotfix 13.2.3 that retired the item.

Yes. They are expensive because of a Hotfix. Now they're not (maybe) as a result of another Hotfix. Deal with it.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

7 minutes ago, Voltage said:

That has to be the most toxic take on this discussion as possible.

Eh, caring too much about these is silly, is it really hurting that everyone can access these things?

You can't even get them without trading and we know that primed chamber came back I don't see why keep these away from everyone's grasp

[--TL--Sui]

1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

Claiming that "respecting players is important" is disingenious when you want to keep items out of the game just so they're expensive for anyone who wasn't playing in 2014.

it's almost as if that's the point of collector items?? Corpus Void Keys haven't been available since 2013 yet i don't see you moan about these either, Arcane helmets offer next to no benefit over, say, an actual arcane, which is why almost no one uses even the best ones - they simply suck too much, leaving them with just the collector value. And that isn't all that high either, most arcane helmets barely even reach the 3 digits.

[Voltage]

11 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Yes. If you can't deal with an item being changed at a later date, go play an offline game.

It's hard to have a discussion when you intentionally skip over a majority of my comment to push your opinion and cherry pick the first statement within 40 seconds of me posting.

[PublikDomain]

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Respecting players is important, and I feel DE could earn some good will by having that mindset when it comes to items like these as well as current systems like Riven Mods.

Honestly, this kind of mentality does a lot more harm than good. Who is harmed by reintroducing Legacy Arcane Helmets?

The player who already has a whole collection? No, they already have them all.
The player who has a partial collection? No, now they can complete their collection without being scalped on the market.
The player who doesn't have any of them? No, now they can get one without being scalped on the market.
The guy trying to sell these collectors items for >200p? Yes, because now they can't sell them for as high of a price.

We shouldn't prioritize a few players' profits over the entire rest of the playerbase. Same with Rivens or Liches, the mentality of "respecting players" who already have the content only disrespects the players who haven't. Reintroducing and/or reworking these items would earn DE a whole heck of a lot more good will. Just my 2¢.

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb --TL--Sui:

And that isn't all that high either, most arcane helmets barely even reach the 3 digits.

You're bluffing the wrong person. I'm aware of what Arcane Helmets cost, and the only ones that barely reach the three digits are the truly terrible ones. That's what the Thrak Rhino helmet costs.

[Krankbert]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Voltage:

It's hard to have a discussion when you intentionally skip over a majority of my comment to push your opinion and cherry pick the first statement.

 

I'm a fast reader, sue me. I adressed everything worth adressing.

[Uhkretor]

Just now, Krankbert said:

I'm a fast reader, sue me. I adressed everything worth adressing.

haha xD

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb Voltage:

So is it players' fault for diving into Railjack early and wasting their time on 2% Vidar Reactor drops? Lich Ephemeras? Blazing Step Ephemera? Crafting Cetus Arcanes before the blueprints became free? Investing into Riven Mods? Collecting Artax Riven Mods?

You really can't blame a player for purchasing an item that has limited quantity because DE dictated it as such. That is supply and demand in a trading system. The reason Arcane Helmets were expensive was a result of Hotfix 13.2.3 that retired the item. The same goes for how Primed Chamber had insanely limited supply, and the same goes for various drops that get changed later. It's all the same. Respecting player investment is something DE is responsible for at every turn, and yes, you cannot always respect every minute or penny of a players' investment, but it should atleast be acknowledged when changing anything in the game. That is something that took place in the Hotfix that retired the item, and it should take place now as well.

Well you should not forget that a player like that has had access to said thing for a good while longer someone who hasnt. If something there was not respecting your time and investment it was those low drop chances like for vidar reactors or blazing step. Some of the cetus arcanes are very powerful so getting them early was definitely worth it for me, I wouldnt have wanted to wait for 2 years or something. And it's not like the helmet being in the store suddenly removed the one you had in your inventory. The time and investment spent on getting them should have been purely on acquiring them. If the entire value of an item is based on rarity what's the point? Just to show off? You might have a personal attachment to that item but that's about it. And it's not like people cant brag about always having had those helmets.

I intentionally dont respect someone's investment if they just bought it for tons and tons of plat later on. Cool, you wasted your plat on useless garbage (lets be honest, most of the arcane helmets are).

[--TL--Sui]

2 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

You're bluffing the wrong person. I'm aware of what Arcane Helmets cost, and the only ones that barely reach the three digits are the truly terrible ones. That's what the Thrak Rhino helmet costs.

I'm not bluffing anyone here, I'm telling the truth. Also, the point still stands, their only value is collector value, their buffs are literally never worth giving up an arcane slot, so unlike with mods like Primed Chamber that are actually good in some situations, they really are just collector items - like corpus void keys, vay hek triangulators, (ancient) fusion cores etc., which are pretty much as useless as today's arcane helmets.

Honestly, if anything the arcane helmets are a debuff, so they're even less useful than the other collector items..

[Krankbert]

Oh, by the way: If people were to go through my post history, they'll find a tongue-in-cheek comment I posted recently, featuring a screenshot of a pink Rhino with pink wings, pink weapons, a pink bow with the heart arrow skin and the heart-shaped Community of Tenno sigil, wearing the cosmetic Rhino Vanguard Helmet. That's not the cosmetic Rhino Vanguard Helmet.

So if all the people looking out for my significant platinum investment would kindly shut up and speak for themselves that would be much appreciated.

[Paradoxity]

I'm going to be the first one laughing if DE decides to re-introduce Arcane helmets... and then gets bored of making them for the massive backlog of frames that don't have them. 

It was... what, vauban? that  was the  last frame  that had 'em, all the ones after that didn't? Maybe valkyr, I honestly can't remember that far back. 

 

What'll be really funny is if they do reintroduce them, and then we start seeing threads here  whining that they're not worth using over the existing arcanes. Because outside a real few outliers they're really not. "Arcane helmets need buffs!"- Can't wait for those threads. 

[--TL--Sui]

3 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

If the entire value of an item is based on rarity what's the point? Just to show off?

That's pretty much the point of collector items, yes. Surely people don't buy Corpus Void Keys for ~1k platinum to sell them for 3500 credits.

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb --TL--Sui:

I'm not bluffing anyone here, I'm telling the truth.

The good thing is that no one has to take my word for it. Anyone can go on warframe.market and just look up what the useless Arcane Rhino Thrak helmet costs and what the usable ones like the Squall Frost or Chorus Banshee go for.