Should Auto-Mantling and Walking be Removed from the Game?

[KitMeHarder]

In my opinion they should, and this is a discussion to see the community’s stance on the matter. Below is my personal reasoning.

Auto-mantling - For those that might not know, this is when you jump at a ledge and your frame/operator pulls themselves on top of it.

• In my three years of heavily playing this game, I can not remember a time where auto-mantling has helped me. In fact, it’s quite the opposite, where it has become so annoying I’m making a forum post.
• As an operator, the game will queue up a mantle without me knowing, and I will dash forward 200m… Only to be teleported back to the ledge to complete the mantle once I leave void mode. And this has happened multiple times with Cloud Walker as well for example
• I will often jump to cast abilities mid air while aim-gliding, only to be animation locked into a mantle. This is annoying and often puts me into bad situations.
• In this age of parkour where we have double jumps, bullet jumps, wall hoping, void dash, etc… I see no reason to not remove this antiquated mechanic. Especially if operators are given some kind of enhanced/double jump as a mid point between void dashing.

Walking - By this I mean not having sprint toggled.

• In my opinion, there is no reason to not be sprinting in this game… save one place I will bring up later.
• It is quite annoying when I have to keep toggling sprint, because abilities like Vial Rush, Aegis Storm, Danse Macabre, the archwing launcher, etc… toggle it off on every cast. This also means that getting rid of walking will future proofs DE’s odd design choices.
• Toggling sprint waste a button on controllers. This button could be better utilized for something else of the player’s choice, as you already have a limited number.
• If you really want to go slow in Warframe, holding crotch while not moving will keep you in a crotching walk even if you have sprint toggled.
• Systems with stamina like Railjack and Necramechs should honestly have stamina removed, as movement like that shouldn’t cost resources. Or at the very least sprinting should not consume stamina, and only sliding, vector maneuvers, and drifting should consume stamina.
• After that, the only downside of removing the ability to toggle off sprint is with archwing/Titania, as you can go too fast at times. I propose removing the ability to “Descend”, as we can freely move downwards with just regular input controls.
  • So now you’d just need to briefly hold the “Blink” button to toggle idle speed, and then briefly hold it to go back to sprinting.

[Uhkretor]

57 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Walking - By this I mean not having sprint toggled.

"Jogging" might be more fitting, perhaps?

59 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

If you really want to go slow in Warframe, holding crotch while not moving will keep you in a crotching walk even if you have sprint toggled.

I prefer to go slow while standing...

... Seriously though

59 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

(...) holding crotch (...) will keep you in a crotching walk (...)

... That does happen, whenever applicable, and you don't need a gamepad for it.

 

Although I agree that mantling makes no sense now, you're basically anti-"no sprint" and anti-"resource dependent sprint". You're going to get mixed opinions related to the matter.

My opinion? I want a Walk/Jog toggle. But its not just because I want to walk during missions, no. Its because I like to annoy people.

... Yes, I'm that against the removal of "non-sprinting", as much as you favor its removal for whatever reasons you, or anyone else, present... Why am I against its removal? Because the gamepad's designers need a wake-up call. That crappy PS2-design/X-design variants suck balls of barbed wire bathed in acid and designers should start looking to functionality and practicality over aesthetics, and that suckity design has been seeping into products used by other platforms... Also, it makes sense not to remove it in the lack of relative control so there's that.

And about resource dependent sprinting, like Railjack boost and Nechramech slide? yeah, I against removing those too. You're using up energy or fuel, respectively, in order to boost or charge, also respectively so~... I don't know what to tell you other than you want those removed out of frustration.

 

More about mantling... If I can't vault over obstacles then mantling can get bent, for all I care...

[shut]

Auto-mantling would be fine if we were able to cancel it (e.g. by inputting Crouch or a direction opposite to the ledge). Other platformers with mantling (e.g. 3D Mario games, Mirror's Edge, Dying Light) have this as part of the player's core movement options, and I'm frankly baffled that WF's devs never thought to implement such a basic feature.

Just fix all the bugs associated with it. Mantling should never occur while an ability is being cast or while in Void Mode, for example. If DE were to implement these two changes, then 99.9% of the problems with mantling would be solved IMO.

 

But yeah, walking/jogging while on foot should be removed, or at least not made the "default" movement option. There's really no situation where you'd rather not have the extra speed from sprinting, at least not where crouching/ADSing would solve the problem just fine.

[Tiltskillet]

Getting rid of the walk / sprint toggle would free up room for the hold crotch / release crotch toggle.  I think I'd  use that one frequently and vigorously.

[(NSW)Joewoof]

DE almost added auto-sprinting then backed off on it. I wonder why they decided to do that. They should've at least added the option. Having to toggle sprint is so annoying.

[(NSW)Gamma83]

true , if sprinting was toggled on directly instead of being "off" when you start a mission it would be nice , especially on consoles.
Why ?  simply because as someone said previously , it would free up a button on the controller and dear lord we are missing quiet a bit of those , there's some things i had to "sacrifice" because i didn't had enough buttons on my pro controller of all thing for warframe, i even had to sacrifice the "marker" you use to mark an item or a target.

And i bet , incoming major udates will make another thing mandatory , making it even harder on console's controllers.

But i wonder how that would work with ivara , since running makes the invisibility diseappear , it would be great for it to toggle on and off automatically if ivara's invisibility is used.

[Kaggelos]

13 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Vial Rush, Aegis Storm, Danse Macabre, the archwing launcher, etc

Seriously, why is this a thing?!? I hate it.

[Teliko_Freedman]

I rather keep the walking. When aiming, you can correct your aim or strafe by walking sideways. Having pressure sensitive controls is nice for that.

Of course, I use my Keyboard Mouse and Controller all together at the same time, so I may be considered a mutant,...I guess.

 

As for this "Auto-Mantling".

If I had my way, I'd keep the ability to grab onto a ledge, but not automatically climb up unless I press forward.

Also while hanging from these ledges, I should be allowed to grab any enemy standing above so they fall to their death (too much Uncharted I guess).

While hanging from these ledges, being able to climb sideways, or aim a secondary weapon might be nice too, or too much work for DE. (~~~Snake Eater~~~).

 

 

[Cody]

Stupid mechanic ESPECIALLY in operator. so annoying when you void dash and the game yanks you back so you can "finish" ledge grabbing with the operator which results in you falling anyway. PLEASE REMOVE THIS GARBAGE.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2021-02-18 at 1:44 AM, KitMeHarder said:

It is quite annoying when I have to keep toggling sprint, because abilities like Vial Rush, Aegis Storm, Danse Macabre, the archwing launcher, etc… toggle it off on every cast. This also means that getting rid of walking will future proofs DE’s odd design choices.

Yes. Yes to everything, but the quoted bit in particular. DE, listen to this man / woman / etc.

DE, come on. It is well past time. Several years in fact.

[Steel_Rook]

On the issue of Sprint, I say this:

• Boost jog speed to current Sprint speed, use the jog animation (the one that keeps the weapon readied).
• Change Sprint into a movement-only version of Gauss' Mag Rush (or the Necramech's Headrsuh).

That's it. That's all that needs to happen. This puts player at a decent movement speed normally but optionally give us a long-range dash with a limited turning radius - ideal for covering long stretches of open ground in a straightforward manner. Hopefully that'll help mitigate the utterly goofy salmon flop we currently use to move around. Bullet Jumps would give us verticality and complex terrain navigation, Sprint would give us the ability to cover open ground. Everybody wins.

Incidentally - that's how Necramechs work, that's how Railjack 3.0 is supposed to work. Why not Warframes?

[p_silveira]

On 2021-02-17 at 9:44 PM, KitMeHarder said:

Auto-mantling - For those that might not know, this is when you jump at a ledge and your frame/operator pulls themselves on top of it.

• In my three years of heavily playing this game, I can not remember a time where auto-mantling has helped me. In fact, it’s quite the opposite, where it has become so annoying I’m making a forum post.
• As an operator, the game will queue up a mantle without me knowing, and I will dash forward 200m… Only to be teleported back to the ledge to complete the mantle once I leave void mode. And this has happened multiple times with Cloud Walker as well for example

Completely agree, I've lost count of how many times I wanted to just dash away with my operator or try to get to the lower floor of a level only to be interrupted by that pesky "auto-grabbing the ledge" animation. It would be great if it was removed from the game.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

Remove sprinting, isn't needed in this game.

[LillyRaccune]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Remove sprinting, isn't needed in this game.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

1 minute ago, LillyRaccune said:

Not really. Sprinting can make you miss a lot of things. Even other games have learned this lesson plenty. It is an unnecessary part of any game.

[LillyRaccune]

 Warframe is special because of the movement and parkour system. I agree with the "make you miss a lot of things", but it is a very necessary part of this game.

 

[fr4gb4ll]

On 2021-02-18 at 1:44 AM, KitMeHarder said:

Auto-mantling

isn't 'mantling' rather something that means to apply a protective (or otherwise usefull) coating around (or inside of, as for helmets)? auto-grabbing or auto-latch might be a better word for it...

anyway, yes to remove "auto-mantling" and no to remove "walking".

in detail:

the idea of us grabbing something to pull ourself up is neat and all and was very usefull before we could bulletjump to where we want to go but nowadays it's more an annoying 'feature' that breaks the parkouring quite often. it also isn't much usefull for getting on top of some elevated things. e.g. take the little post in the void-defense mission map, the one in the middle between the two lasers that point toward the starting area - or to point D in the interception on this map... it's far easier to jump and glide onto it than grabbing it with this 'mantling' since this wouls more likely to throw you off just when being up there (likely by inertia, or just because of silly animations the devs are so found of ^^)

while we sure  do more sprinting than walking in warframe, there are some important moments where it's better to go slow than fast. picking stuff up for one and tactical positioning  on edges (e.g. a roof) is easier done by walking. at least we don't have a real 'walking' in the game like in many others where they have this walking, running and sprinting seperated and running is the normal way everyone is moving instead of merely walking. the way the  forward movement works is good enough imo - ofc, everyone likes options, so letting us choose either is ok with me too... that goes for many other aspects of the game too, like the way AW movement works (especially in space) and where DE already has the two contested ways (real 3d movement like it was before and the pseudo 3-axis system we have now) and should have just put in an option that would have made everyone happy and not forcing one way upon all.

[Aldain]

Who sprints?

I just bullet jump>double jump>midair roll everywhere.

[Yamazuki]

13 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Not really. Sprinting can make you miss a lot of things. Even other games have learned this lesson plenty. It is an unnecessary part of any game.

Yes, and some of those other games got rid of sprinting because the default speed in many other games is equivalent to Warframe's sprinting, and it's walking speed that you have to toggle on and off; with others just letting you sprint indefinitely by default and only being limited while in combat.

Warframe is the only game where running isn't arbitrarily limited that has walk speed the forced default, every other game by default you're running and you have to toggle the slower speed.

It could also just be an option, so those who prefer, would be able to keep it as-is.

[Sloan441]

No. 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On sprint:  The toggle should stay, imo, as removing it would most likely generate a handful of unforeseen issues just like the one with Titania and Razorwing, though I think that issue could be fixed by simply not changing sprint for archwing controls, and changing them only for Warframes.

The sprint toggle, however, should default to be on and should stay on no matter what unless the player toggles it off, with options in the menu for reverting to the way it is now.  I too am extremely tired of several abilities toggling sprint off and having to toggle it on at the start of every single missions as well as every time I use one of those abilities.  It should just stay toggled on.  As for your complaint about the controller, if they defaulted to it being on you could just manually change that button to do something else, which you already can.  I think (but am too lazy to check.) that archwing controls are separately adjustable from normal controls.  If they aren't, they really should be.  Most games let you mod vehicle controls separately.  Just making sprint default to on and putting in some options in the menus for toggles and reverting would make 90% of the people talking about this happy.

As for auto-mantling:  I know the much touted parkour system is something many players and devs consider to be this big achievement considering how it came about being in the game and all that.  But it needs an update quite badly imo.  Updating movement across the board to be less about risk/reward (which they think needs to go in everything.  It doesn't.) and more about maintaining that space ninja flow would go a long way to making movement more accessible to newer players by smoothing out the learning curve, as well as just being a lot more enjoyable.  Examples:
 

• Mantling no longer impedes or slows movement, but is now part of momentum stacking.  If you jump straight up and end up grabbing the ledge instead of clearing it your frame smoothly and quickly pulls you over it instead of stopping everything for a jarring, slow animation.  It should either continue movement in the same direction without decreasing speed or it could actually speed you up considering your extremely strong warframe has something to pull on and propel itself with. 
• This could be added to the whole environment, where moving over say the top of a box or even Blunt at a high speed would cause your warframe to reach out and grab it to continue throwing you the direction you're going.  Right now you might clip a single pixel over the top of a box and end up going nowhere, or hit the auto-mantle and slow you down tremendously.  Imagine hitting the top of a doorframe while moving through a level and instead of everything halting so that your frame can grab it and mantle onto it, it instead grabs the frame and swings into the door, conserving forward momentum.  
• The same concept could be added to archwing and kdrives, where clipping a corner would have your frame reach out to shove you off or propel you forward instead of your super agile frame just watching it happen and then ragdolling forever.
• corner smoothing so that if you happen to walk into the edge of a corner you automatically go around it.  SNES games literally have this so that you didn't get stuck on every single corner.

Smoothing out parkour and all the hangups that the environment presents would be far cooler and more fun than the current system.  There are games older than this one that have parkour systems that do the things I'm talking about already and do them smoothly.  A lot of vets are going to come in and accuse me of being bad for wanting this, but I got used to what we have a long time ago, and I'm usually the front of the pack.  I just think it would be far more enjoyable for everyone, including experienced players, if they smoothed the system out.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

Can someone show a video highlighting this mythical "auto-mantling"? Tried doing some mantling the other night and never once did anything trigger. Beginning to think Warframe doesn't have mantling at all and you guys are just confusing grabbing a ledge with mantling.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

all auto-mantling does is make my WF do stupid things like climb onto computer terminals and door frames

I've never had an incident where I even Intentionally wanted to Mantle onto anything.

There's no need to grab and climb onto ledges when Bullet Jump has it all covered.

[SteveCutler]

Yes please.

There's no point to walking outside of captura screenshotting.

Nobody ever wants to mantle things. It just gets in the way - so so so often. Plus it's horribly buggy. Always interfering with abilities and then teleporting you miles back.

[Joezone619]

i think auto-manteling should be removed but keep the walking.