Is warframe casual or hardcore to you?

[Hokibukisa]

Personally I see warframe as a puzzle game with a lot of depth.

Theres not particularly any kind of difficulty in the content itself. One exception might Grendal farm, or playing the wrong frame for the job, but other than that it’s more like a puzzle that gets easier the better you understand it, and the more compounding power you achieve through the different systems of mods/arcanes/forma/endo.

When I see ‘veterans’ complain about lack of endgame/content/challenge, I now start thinking, what if this game had a new mode that took away all of the preparation veteran put into the game?

What about a random rank 30 frame with random rank 30 weapons, with random amounts of random forma, with maybe two random mods that can’t be removed, and have to play a random mission? You get 2 minutes to build out the mods/arcane load outs before mission begins.

If the core gameplay loop isn’t what’s fun to the player, then this wouldn’t be interesting, nobody would want it. But if the core loop IS what’s fun to them, then maybe this would be the reset challenge they didn’t get with steel path.

 

 

[Nok-Rntha]

Depends on the content
Some of it is so brain-optional, it can be done by a trained monkey

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1. Not watching the video. 

2. It's not either/or. It's casual and hardcore.

3. If someone wants to fashion frame, they can. If someone wants to go 12 hours in Steel path Mot, they can. If someone wants to run relic captures, they can as well. And if someone wants to take their time in a mission instead of rushing and not using aoe, they can do that as well.

Some people are just upset they can't make everyone play their way, when they already have the freedom to play however they want, while leaving everyone else alone. It bothers them that they can't "open our eyes" to the way "warframe should be",  not realizing that no one cares what they think warframe should be. 

[Venus-Venera]

both and even more..........

[MqToasty]

You know?  That's actually not a bad idea.  A softer version would be a "pick random loadout" button/checkbox when starting a mission (maybe with a small +% to drops, credits, etc.), but some sort of randomized setup would help keep things fresh for long-time veterans.

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

11 minutes ago, Hokibukisa said:

what if this game had a new mode that took away all of the preparation veteran put into the game?

The game is about preparation though, at least to me anyways.

Its about getting all the frames and weapons.  Putting in multiple forma, rivens, adapters.  Its about getting the arcanes and maxing out your focus trees.   Its a never ending grind to add strength, power and functionality to your load out.

So you can then feel powerful completing whatever task you want.  That doesn't necessarily mean doing a meta cheese strategy, a lot of the fun is using non meta options and tactics because you have the toys to make these things work.

I can strip out my mods, use un-forma'd stuff, random load out etc.  I wouldn't find that fun.  My fun is using all the tons of stuff I've grinded my ass off to get and improve.   DE need to challenge players who have all the gear.  Simply stripping the gear away is not the answer.

[trst]

I find the entire game painfully casual but that's because of all the gear we're given access to nothing ever asks for even half of a full loadout. Sure we can put all this prep time into our loadouts but nothing in the game requires more than a half-built frame and any decently built weapon.

But the problem with randomizing loadouts (or anything that restricts player gear) is that it invalidates the progression we've spent all this time working for. Spend all this time pumping Forma into two dozen frames and a hundred weapons only to rng a loadout with none of it, suddenly all that work means nothing here. It makes getting new gear kinda pointless since any investment into it can go right out the window.

 

Personally I just wish they followed the formula of nearly every other game where stronger gear is put into the game alongside harder content that justifies the power increase. Instead of what we have now of constant stronger gear releases alongside content that might have justify the gear we got three+ years ago.

[nomnomnom513]

It's casual in terms of difficulty, it's hardcorde in terms of farming (to easily beat said difficulty).

[Berzerkules]

I can't play games casually. If I'm going to play a game I'm going to beat the hell out of it. 

It's like that with everything I do though. Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. 

[Surbusken]

It usually just refers to amount of effort you have to put in. Be it time, money, or whatever.

So for example the combat is totally casual but the grind is over the top hardcore. So it depends on what your variable is, hours played a week? Crafting? Modding?

 

Anyway, it's easy to imagine someone completed their build and maxed everything 3 years ago, cake waking every game mode, is looking for a challenge.

Whatever you think of the steel path it is still at least a recognition of the issue.

 

I like your attempt to come up with solutions though I don't think believe in "removing what people built".

Such as forcing you to use archguns venus boss fight, damage immunity on eidolons and so on. It's a cheap way of forcing you to grind more gear you didn't want but also a budget work-around people being geared.

When people spend so much time investing into something, they want to use it in a fight, naturally. When you force people to use chroma only for eidolons or whatever, you fundamentally misunderstood the core principle of the game.

"Dynamic gameplay" is however where it is at. As long as even just a few things change around on a game mode you can make it feel unpredictable.

Nothing is more boring to the brain than repeitition, it's the opposite of fun. Which is why sandbox is so popular. For the simple fact you don't know what will happen and can insert yourself creatively.

I do have plenty of ideas for end-game but I wouldn't presume to dictate, especially when you can just ask or survey directly.

Though I think the developer feel the riven system is a perma-crutch

 

 

[Askell91]

[Oggyswe]

I played for years and its been a mix but mostly casual

 

I turn to games like darksouls or such for a more hardcore experience 

 

Warframe is onenof those games were i relax and make interesting builds

[Yasha-7HS]

The gameplay is casual. Nothing in the gameplay actually strives to force you out of your comfort zone, or have you cooperate, or push you to improve. Most frames unless they're blatantly unplayable can win all content solo with minimal effort. 

The dedication to actually playing the game in order to obtain half the "required" things so that you can experiment with actually interesting playstyles outside of, you know... Rhino and Ignis Wraith is hardcore. 

Edit: Also

  

1 hour ago, Hokibukisa said:

What about a random rank 30 frame with random rank 30 weapons, with random amounts of random forma, with maybe two random mods that can’t be removed, and have to play a random mission? You get 2 minutes to build out the mods/arcane load outs before mission begins.

Most definitely not. The game is simply not designed to allow something like this. Simply, some weapon combos don't work, some mods as a whole don't work, not to mention the mod combos on the weapons themselves not working, and the entirety of your weapons not working with the frame in question. Unlike a game like Code Vein where you can still complete anything with relative comfort if you have enough skill, Warframe just checks your equipment. You must be this tall to ride this ride. You must have this much DPS to matter at all. 

 

 

[Dauggie]

warframe for me is just, do the latest update/get all mastery avaliable then go on haitus until next update drops (i do collect daily login rewards)

[ReddyDisco]

competitive fashionframe, does that count?

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Hokibukisa said:

puzzle game with a lot of depth.

Well, there's my issue. Most of Warframe's depth is nullified because some parts of the game are just so overwhelmingly powerful or broadly effective. Take Ignis, which is a good chaff-killer, that also deals substantial enough damage to take out lesser heavy units and can hit weakpoints meaning that Noxes are also easy to deal with. Melee can just overwhelm their damage resistance because scaling mods and the like exist.

A game's only as deep as the number of meaningful options and choices. If one choice fits all, then you could have a billion alternatives, but it's still as shallow as a puddle.

[0_The_F00l]

I don't think its a mutually exclusive deal, it can be both.

Though the hardcore term can mean different things to different people.

Its mostly casual but with significant investment that causes people to be attached and "act" hardcore due to combination of sunk cost fallacy and nostalgia.

Instead of a puzzle i would call it more of a gambling game now, with your gear and time as the chips.

[vegetosayajin]

it's my "relax after work" game, so...yea pretty casual(even tho I sank 2-3k hours in it, who knows how many forma, almost every item and mod, long survivals etc).
Also the video is pretty on point with wf :D

[Zimzala]

WF is just a video game. 

The casual/hardcore outlook/definitions are all about players and their outlooks toward one another, IMO/IME.

I have friends that cannot even relax after a couple drinks, as a poster stated in this thread, they to 'everything' hardcore, they do not know how to relax.

On the other hand, I cannot take a video game 'seriously'. I might play a lot, I might beat the game, I might not, but the moment it's not fun in the moment, I go do something else, regardless of if I return to that game, it's just entertainment.

Why put the game or the players into little boxes?

[SneakyErvin]

I'd say it is casual hardcore.

Most of the things in the game are relaxing and fairly easy so it obviously is on the casual side, but most things in the game are also not explained or have the game hold your hand, so that makes it end up on the hardcore side of things aswell. 

2 hours ago, Hokibukisa said:

When I see ‘veterans’ complain about lack of endgame/content/challenge, I now start thinking, what if this game had a new mode that took away all of the preparation veteran put into the game?

What about a random rank 30 frame with random rank 30 weapons, with random amounts of random forma, with maybe two random mods that can’t be removed, and have to play a random mission? You get 2 minutes to build out the mods/arcane load outs before mission begins.

I'd hate to see that since the idea of grindy looter games is to grind loot to get better and then have a chance to test that loot and progression versus something worthy of the time invested. Which is where DE already fails at an extremely high level with WF since they've started to introduce these progression stripping bosses like Exploiter and Nihil, that just flips a middle finger to the player imo. It renders everything obsolete, takes away the whole point in getting weapons and frames for certain situations which also in reality renders our plat investments, such as forma, taters, loadout slots, weapon/frame slots etc. pointless.

DE needs to face the freakin music at this point and handle the mess they've put themselves in, and handle it properly. We the players shouldnt be punished for DE letting their game run rampant with power creep, we the players shouldnt have our progression and time turned into something meaningless by DE releasing the cheapest possibly "solution" to the problem, which doesnt even solve the problem at hand.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

I can't play games casually. If I'm going to play a game I'm going to beat the hell out of it. 

It's like that with everything I do though. Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. 

Same, I'm just not made that way.

[Zimzala]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

DE needs to face the freakin music at this point and handle the mess they've put themselves in, and handle it properly. We the players shouldnt be punished for DE letting their game run rampant with power creep, we the players shouldnt have our progression and time turned into something meaningless by DE releasing the cheapest possibly "solution" to the problem, which doesnt even solve the problem at hand.

"We the players" - it's a video game, not a country where we all have a vote.

You get entertainment from playing, it's not an investment that is supposed to mature at some point, it's just entertainment.

The 'time invested' is simply time each player invests in their personal entertainment, not a stock portfolio.

No one is being punished, IMO, unless they see themselves as a martyr.

DE does not turn your time 'meaningless' by making changes it the game.

Just wow.

[Hokibukisa]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

DE needs to face the freakin music at this point and handle the mess they've put themselves in, and handle it properly. We the players shouldnt be punished for DE letting their game run rampant with power creep, we the players shouldnt have our progression and time turned into something meaningless by DE releasing the cheapest possibly "solution" to the problem, which doesnt even solve the problem at hand.

This is every game though. People don’t design games in a way that keeps them challenging anymore.

In Zelda then didn’t deal in percentages they dealt in hearts.

If you design a mission year 1 where every rifle with mods had a 2 second time to kill or 5 bullets, and then over 10 years of interlocking systems allowed for 10 times more damage, yeah you’re gonna 1 shot everything on that mission now.

Zelda would have the same problem. You’d either need to implement some state of the art damage gating system, or fine some way to reset everything.

I think this is what nullibubs were meant to do, reintroduce challenge into a game full of cc, but it only ended up choosing winners

[Soy77]

Difficulty gotta stop somewhere.

I mean there are veteran gamers who have mastered and thinks that every dark souls games are easy. If fromsoftware increase the difficulty to entertain these veterans, dark soul's difficulty would be at impossible level for normal players.

Have you seen players who run bayonetta on infinite climax difficulty? They have infested so much time to learn the game, it's easy for them. Normal players won't even survive hard difficulty.

Do you ever see daigo umehara whines to capcom that he wants a harder street fighter game? (I know, i know, it's from different genre. but you get my point)

===========

Y'all veterans whining this and that are too easy. Well it's not for the majority of rookies. We all have to catch up with your 7 years of grinding. Why not be wise gods like in every other games and sit nicely in relays, parade your god fashion frames and limited syandanas, or be generous gods and carry some rookies to fight jackal, or give out items and get admired. Those are what veterans do in every other games.

Y'all keep asking about an endgame... Nobody ever thought that you are at the endgame? You have conquered everything in this game and probably it's time to move on to another game? Or you know, just be one of those generous gods...

[Aldain]

Neither, it is simultaneously too hard for new players and too easy for long term ones because the intrinsic balance and difficulty curve of the game is broken 8 ways to Sunday.

The game relies far too heavily on knowledge checks that can circumvent any actual gameplay, permanent crowd control, billions of damage per second, literal invincibility, perma-invisibility, the list goes on.

Warframe is so comically imbalanced that neither party can be satisfied because the game doesn't boil down to getting better at it, it boils down to playing it as little as possible and copy/pasting the solution to math problems.