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Is warframe casual or hardcore to you?


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52 minutes ago, Hokibukisa said:

In Zelda then didn’t deal in percentages they dealt in hearts.

In legend of zelda, it was (mostly) fun exploring and completing puzzles, while also fighting. What do we have in warframe? RNG, all consuming RNG, some numbers crunching and nothing else. The pathetic attempt at "open world" is just sad.

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2 hours ago, Zimzala said:

"We the players" - it's a video game, not a country where we all have a vote.

You get entertainment from playing, it's not an investment that is supposed to mature at some point, it's just entertainment.

The 'time invested' is simply time each player invests in their personal entertainment, not a stock portfolio.

No one is being punished, IMO, unless they see themselves as a martyr.

DE does not turn your time 'meaningless' by making changes it the game.

Just wow.

They make the time meaningless by doing things that have nothing to do with previous progression. It would bebetter to have a pretty static system in that case, where progress at one point ends, a point the game can keep up with. Punished is also the most accurate word to describe what it results in when they add bosses that just arent designed for the game we play. You need neither frame, weapons or mods for someone like Nihil and you barely need any of that either for Exploiter. That isnt how a game should progress. And it is not something we should suffer for, especially not when they keep introducing even more power creep in our arsenal with pretty much every patch.

An investment is an investment no matter what, that does mean it is an investment that equals money though and no one implied that. I've still invested time to make the frames and weapons as good as possible in order to be ready to face a potential new foe, I didnt do it to face a foe that could in reality be beaten by a level 1 frame without weapons or mods. It is poor design gone out of hand in an otherwise wonderful game. WF isnt perfect, and the balance issues or well lack of balance is what stands out the most to me, along with very questionable nerfs in places where there is no actual need to nerf since it doesnt change the lay of the land in any real way.

1 hour ago, Hokibukisa said:

This is every game though. People don’t design games in a way that keeps them challenging anymore.

In Zelda then didn’t deal in percentages they dealt in hearts.

If you design a mission year 1 where every rifle with mods had a 2 second time to kill or 5 bullets, and then over 10 years of interlocking systems allowed for 10 times more damage, yeah you’re gonna 1 shot everything on that mission now.

Zelda would have the same problem. You’d either need to implement some state of the art damage gating system, or fine some way to reset everything.

I think this is what nullibubs were meant to do, reintroduce challenge into a game full of cc, but it only ended up choosing winners

Nope it isnt every game. I have yet to run into another game that completely removes my progress in an encounter. I dont have an issue with nulls or arbi drones, my issue is with things that completely remove the spirit of the game and the hours of progression we've spent and things that are completely out of lore in their mechanical implementation, like eidolons being immune to WF powers, the very thing that was designed to and successfully took out sentients years and years and years ago.

Nulls and drones are imo fantastic additions to the game and counters done to the point in the correct way. And they should build further on those ideas along with the weakpoint system. They can all serve as different counters to our arsenal and promote better and less lazy gameplay, while keeping our progress and the time spent on it intact.

Nulls, drones, weakpoint enemies etc. = the right way to counter/limit our powers.

Exploiter, Lons and Nihil = the wrong way to counter our powers, to a point where it is actually hard to describe just how wrong and poor the implementations are.

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3rd option   WHALE.  and some insight into how DE makes money. .

I love the game,  but have a job and wife.  I only play warframe and rarely play other games. .. I would be hard core but time is not on my side.    

So how do I keep up?.   PAY TO SKIP.   I buy  both Prime packs evey 3 months.  And use the plat to buy booster and fashion. Yes I run all the booster   all the time..  . I don't have time to farm for plat or time to trade.     I'v brought more weapons and frames with plat then I'v farmed. .  Before you judge me  I'm helping keeping the game alive.  Lol.  

The grind is this game is balanced around boosters. . And prime Access.  I seem to run out of plat just in time for the next PA..   

After 3 years I'm MR 23.  And don't burn out on the game.  But I'm more critical of DE when they drop a bad update. .   Something this community could learn.  Free to play players seem to have more Grace for the devs and less for the consumer. ...  Don't scream " it's free to play"  to us.   For some  Warframe is the most expensive game they will ever play. .

But if your here ,  we all love the game.  And we want it's to do well. ..

 

Edited by (PSN)SolarPhantom82
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6 hours ago, Hokibukisa said:

What about a random rank 30 frame with random rank 30 weapons, with random amounts of random forma, with maybe two random mods that can’t be removed, and have to play a random mission? You get 2 minutes to build out the mods/arcane load outs before mission begins.

I would really enjoy this to be honest, but the mission has to be fair too, and of course the randomness should have some limitations too (because i just loathe a few weapons).

But how would you balance the rewards? I think WF's primary issue is that rewards are terribly balanced, and so build and mission choices revolve around efficiency.

Anyhow, in my eyes WF is a hardcore grinder with a casual gameplay.

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In my take, wether the game is “casual or hardcore,” is a question of who it’s intended for.

Most casual players only play video games for a handful of hours a week.

If that’s all the play time you get, I can’t see warframe being a great game for you. 
 

I would make the argument that it’s the core gamers who warframe is more suited to. I mean, come on, for a lot of casual gamers even something like a skill tree can be too complicated and confusing.

While warframe might not be a difficult game to play once you have all the most powerful stuff in the game (duh) using the systems to get to that point is pretty convoluted. It requires spending a lot of time in a large number of interlocking systems.

In short, this game is almost impenetrable to a casual player. Imo, warframe is ardently for core gamers.

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9 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

the answer is yes. it's both. the real question is:

which hybrid name sounds most like it could be a thing; Casucore or Harsual? Coresual? Frohd Bek makes it look easy...

Hacasul.

 Pronounced: Ha! Casul.

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19 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

the answer is yes. it's both. the real question is:

which hybrid name sounds most like it could be a thing; Casucore or Harsual? Coresual? Frohd Bek makes it look easy...

Koreasual.

Because it's like those Korean MMO-s with hardcore grind and easy gameplay.

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I can be super casual and hardcore when I feel it's needed but normally I just want to kill stuff and leave no witnesses and explore the maps even after all these years now and then I'll find a new spot tucked away in some out there area.

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19 hours ago, Aldain said:

Neither, it is simultaneously too hard for new players and too easy for long term ones because the intrinsic balance and difficulty curve of the game is broken 8 ways to Sunday.

The game relies far too heavily on knowledge checks that can circumvent any actual gameplay, permanent crowd control, billions of damage per second, literal invincibility, perma-invisibility, the list goes on.

Warframe is so comically imbalanced that neither party can be satisfied because the game doesn't boil down to getting better at it, it boils down to playing it as little as possible and copy/pasting the solution to math problems.

This pretty much sums up my feelings as well.   The fact that I have started to do many missions solo to "speed them up" indicates a lot IMO.    The fact that limbo is one of my top frames indicates alot.   How did I get every item from every syndicate...catabomb the world.   You want to do fissures quickly....pick captures/exterm and use gauss.    Spy...wukong thanks very much.  

I don't blame DE at all.   But when you need to produce 3-4 new frames every year and dozens of weapons...this is bound to result in an eventual "new meta" quite often when the games difficulty doesn't REALLY change.   I mean, steel path was interesting...but all it did was expose how over powered melee could be.   I mean, on single target melee is no better than prim/sec....but when you can hit 10-20 targets at a clip...yeah, that is op.   When you can prime those 10-20 targets with 5+ status in 1 second...it is really OP.    I don't even bring primary any more.   I bring my nukor...if that doesn't kill it...my melee will in about 3 seconds.  

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Casual and pure rng. And rng are included for "competitive speedruns" events, for any type of content, can be capture, profit taker, eidolon hunts, or whatever you want, if you are in speedruns you are looking for the perfect tileset

PD: i like warframe

 

Edited by Danielw8
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8 minutes ago, Chappie said:

 I mean, on single target melee is no better than prim/sec....but when you can hit 10-20 targets at a clip...yeah, that is op

When you factor in scaling mods, Melee just obliterates. Seriously, how's the rest of the game meant to keep up with two or three hundred percent crit and similar status? To put this in perspective, Skana in the state that you pick it up (or at least levelled) is a Steel Path weapon once you get some scaling mods in it. And by that I mean, no potato, no forma. Now start imagining what weapon that's supposed to be endgame can look like with that level of BS, and Melee quickly reveals its true self - an all-purpose shredder that doesn't care what you're fighting.

Which in a game where fighting is, like... 75% of the content, is a problem because now the player doesn't care what they're fighting, and therefore the player doesn't care about any content that's about fighting... which is 75% of the content.

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44 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

When you factor in scaling mods, Melee just obliterates. Seriously, how's the rest of the game meant to keep up with two or three hundred percent crit and similar status? To put this in perspective, Skana in the state that you pick it up (or at least levelled) is a Steel Path weapon once you get some scaling mods in it. And by that I mean, no potato, no forma. Now start imagining what weapon that's supposed to be endgame can look like with that level of BS, and Melee quickly reveals its true self - an all-purpose shredder that doesn't care what you're fighting.

Which in a game where fighting is, like... 75% of the content, is a problem because now the player doesn't care what they're fighting, and therefore the player doesn't care about any content that's about fighting... which is 75% of the content.

This is extremely hyperbolic. Skana’s base damage is 230, crit chance 5% and status chance 16%
No forma and no potato?

Okay, with 30 capacity you can fit blood rush and condition overload.

Even with blood rush maxed out, you’re bringing skana up to 15-20% crit chance.

Okay, weeping wounds instead? Status chance would barely peak above 50-60% AND, you don’t even have space for elements.

So no, your hyperbole doesn’t check out.

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21 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

the answer is yes. it's both. the real question is:

which hybrid name sounds most like it could be a thing; Casucore or Harsual? Coresual? Frohd Bek makes it look easy...

I'd go with HCasual.

Or maybe softcore? runs of to the corner giggling.

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Most people on the forums have thousands of hours, of course it's gonna be easy peasy for them.

That being said, the game itself is not difficult at all. The problem is the weirdness and the many systems present in the game (and some badly done, like Liches).

A casual player won't have any idea of what a Mod is and what it is used for, and that's why many have abandoned the game over the years. They thought the game more difficult than it is. And DE's "just look at the wiki or watch our devstreams lol" philosophy hasn't helped at all.

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I would vote casual overall. It has stuff for hardcore players to be sure, but its' mostly focused on being accessible to a large audience of game skill. 

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It's a casual game with a few difficulty spikes strewn in places to challenge players... mostly in the way OP mentioned - solve the "puzzle" of building your kit correctly and everything becomes a mind numbing breeze.

The odd news is that power creep is a GOOD thing in this game?  Content that was once hardcore becomes casualized through better weaponry and mods (warframes are more personal preference as they are intended to be niche-equal in theory,) and DE gets an excuse to introduce new challenge modes.

Anyone asking for endgame or true challenging content however has to realize Warframe is a numbers game.  The "puzzle" metaphor was spot on.  You win your missions in the arsenal, not on the battlefield.   The mission parameters and rewards might change, but the methods stay the same.  As long as that remains to be the case, it's hard to challenge the players by means of skill.

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8 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

This is extremely hyperbolic. Skana’s base damage is 230, crit chance 5% and status chance 16%
No forma and no potato?

Okay, with 30 capacity you can fit blood rush and condition overload.

Even with blood rush maxed out, you’re bringing skana up to 15-20% crit chance.

Okay, weeping wounds instead? Status chance would barely peak above 50-60% AND, you don’t even have space for elements.

So no, your hyperbole doesn’t check out.

Believe me

I wish you were right.

 

Spoiler

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For reference, I also tried it without Weeping Wounds, and even buffed both attack and status to boot. It was predictably as sucky as it should have been.

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Both casual and hardcore, just depends on what you do. You can farm billions of credits if you wish or you can be max rank and have like 24 credits to your name.

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16 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Believe me

I wish you were right.

 

  Hide contents

5MW6TKg.jpg

OJ1pbPD.jpg

PfztW8Z.jpg

For reference, I also tried it without Weeping Wounds, and even buffed both attack and status to boot. It was predictably as sucky as it should have been.

Just know poster is Limbo cheesing with rift dodge and rag dolling enemies since they can be attacked safely while in rift. The example is very case specific and cannot be done with any frame. So while in a vacuum it demonstrates the power of scaling mods such as Weeping Wounds, as well as Viral and Slash. It’s important to remember how tilted the results actually are.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)dday3six said:

Just know poster is Limbo cheesing with rift dodge and rag dolling enemies since they can be attacked safely while in rift. The example is very case specific and cannot be done with any frame. So while in a vacuum it demonstrates the power of scaling mods such as Weeping Wounds, as well as Viral and Slash. It’s important to remember how tilted the results actually are.

Spoiler

 

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And for reference the Skana build and demonstration of Default (no Lockdown or anything) Operator, although he never came out to play anyway.

PfztW8Z.jpg

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Yes there was a fair bit of knockdown spam, but through the fact that Crimson Dervish is full of abusable knockdowns already. Whilst tangential to scaling mods being brokenly more powerful than other mods... that's not really helping the case that Melee is fine, is it?

 

The reason I initially used Limbo was simple - I like Limbo. But I threw together an Inaros for the occasion... and as such, I didn't even need to care about open spaces or being surrounded. Hence the faster clear time despite this run needing more kills.

 

@_R_o_g_u_e_ Having done more thinking on the topic, I have realised a different way to go about this. Based on that calculation, I wondered how many non-scaling status mods equaled one Weeping Wounds. In total it's all four 60/60 mods or three of them plus Melee Prowess (the 90% Status mod). Which means that a single, 9 capacity mod is about as strong as half a mod loadout and a total of 28 mod capacity drain. So, I'm still fairly confident

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