Is warframe casual or hardcore to you?

[(PSN)dday3six]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

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And for reference the Skana build and demonstration of Default (no Lockdown or anything) Operator, although he never came out to play anyway.

 

Yes there was a fair bit of knockdown spam, but through the fact that Crimson Dervish is full of abusable knockdowns already. Whilst tangential to scaling mods being brokenly more powerful than other mods... that's not really helping the case that Melee is fine, is it?

 

The reason I initially used Limbo was simple - I like Limbo. But I threw together an Inaros for the occasion... and as such, I didn't even need to care about open spaces or being surrounded. Hence the faster clear time despite this run needing more kills.

 

@_R_o_g_u_e_ Having done more thinking on the topic, I have realised a different way to go about this. Based on that calculation, I wondered how many non-scaling status mods equaled one Weeping Wounds. In total it's all four 60/60 mods or three of them plus Melee Prowess (the 90% Status mod). Which means that a single, 9 capacity mod is about as strong as half a mod loadout and a total of 28 mod capacity drain. So, I'm still fairly confident

My stance is nerfing melee does not erase the issues with ranged, not that melee is fine. Nice try. The point is if your results are altered by frame choice, then they are influenced by more than the sheer power of scaling mods.

Not sure why you mentioned Inaros or a clear time with him, given your pix feature only Limbo. 

 

To add something related to the topic of the OP. Warframe is what you make of it, either Causal or Hardcore. It’s all a matter of perspective and play style. Myself, I tend to be a max/min sort of player and that normally lands me in the hardcore camp.

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)dday3six said:

My stance is nerfing melee does not erase the issues with ranged, not that melee is fine. Nice try. The point is if your results are altered by frame choice, then they are influenced by more than the sheer power of scaling mods.

And my stance is that, frankly, ranged is fine. Its TTK is fine, and even Melee is fine (save the scaling mods). Or at the very least, they're in proportion with each other and if there's any issues (which yes, they are). Ranged weapons and melee, on their own, aren't so dramatically different that they're overshadowing one another or causing issues where one is worthless because enemies are in proportion with one, but not the other. Even abilities (for the most part) are working on this general power level.

 

But when you start throwing scaling mods into the mix and have them be as powerful as several other mods combined, then there's an issue. As demonstrated, it causes melee to hit dramatically above its weight Because the rest of the game isn't in proportion with that, now melee is more desirable than guns. In turn, that negates a large chunk of the depth in the game - which was my original contribution to the topic.

On 2021-02-18 at 2:45 PM, Loza03 said:

Well, there's my issue. Most of Warframe's depth is nullified because some parts of the game are just so overwhelmingly powerful or broadly effective. Take Ignis, which is a good chaff-killer, that also deals substantial enough damage to take out lesser heavy units and can hit weakpoints meaning that Noxes are also easy to deal with. Melee can just overwhelm their damage resistance because scaling mods and the like exist.

A game's only as deep as the number of meaningful options and choices. If one choice fits all, then you could have a billion alternatives, but it's still as shallow as a puddle.

Melee being so much more effective than guns makes guns no longer a meaningful option. All the possible depth they provide goes out of the window. After all, no gun has access to this much status, and likewise for crit. And Depth is important. It's how you get an interesting min/max experience, because there's more meaningful ways to go about it. It's how someone else gets a cool meme build to play around with, and how you two can play in the same game and have fun at the same time.

 

And whilst, yes, you could just add scaling mods to guns, but now most damaging Warframe powers aren't in proportion, and enemies aren't either, and you can't just add scaling mods to them. So now you need to give every damaging Warframe power and enemy a buff to bring them up to speed, and you need to test that and write a whole bunch of new formulas, and probably leave a ton of stuff behind and create hundreds of new smaller problems. Which, ultimately, is a huge and unnecessary amount of work to fix a problem because of a handful of mods are unacceptably far above the 'Jedi Curve' - i.e. the amount of power gained for the amount that it costs.

 

So, logically... just prune out the problem mods.

38 minutes ago, (PSN)dday3six said:

Not sure why you mentioned Inaros or a clear time with him, given your pix feature only Limbo. 

Maybe take a closer look at them.

[(PSN)dday3six]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Maybe take a closer look at them.

It’s Limbo in all 3 you uploaded in this thread.

[Loza03]

Just now, (PSN)dday3six said:

It’s Limbo in all 3 you uploaded in this thread.

Literally first thing in post you were quoting from when you said that.

[Aldain]

Insane multipliers are WHY Warframe is in a state of comical imbalance, it was why Armor was obnoxious, it is why Melee IS obnoxious and is why literally nothing in the game can be balanced in any meaningful way because nothing matters but how big the numbers are these days.

It doesn't matter what you use, all you need is a big enough stat stick for most things, except what DE disables everything like it is Exploiter or the Glassmaker boss which means all the numbers are worthless anyway.

We're in a state where the only way DE can make gameplay that players actually have to interact with is by making vomiting numbers at it not possible, and people complain about that incessantly too.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 hours ago, Aldain said:

Insane multipliers are WHY Warframe is in a state of comical imbalance, it was why Armor was obnoxious, it is why Melee IS obnoxious and is why literally nothing in the game can be balanced in any meaningful way because nothing matters but how big the numbers are these days.

It doesn't matter what you use, all you need is a big enough stat stick for most things, except what DE disables everything like it is Exploiter or the Glassmaker boss which means all the numbers are worthless anyway.

We're in a state where the only way DE can make gameplay that players actually have to interact with is by making vomiting numbers at it not possible, and people complain about that incessantly too.

What you and some others don't seem to understand is that it's really not against the law or bad thing that warframe is the way it is.

You're under the impression a game literally can't be good and that it's some "out of balance mess" that "has to be dealt with immediately or else the world crumbles", and this really isn't true. 

I'm all for making slight tweaks here and there, but this game how it is now is why I play and support it. If enough people like the comical imbalance then we're gonna have fun with it. 

[GEN-Son_17]

It's both. In fact, DE kinda went out of their way to make Warframe a game every type of player can enjoy. 

It's years of great, hardcore gameplay for completionists.

It's hardcore but casual enough for endurance players. Despite claims, I've seen many players get destroyed on Mot, Railjack base missions and Steel Path.

It's hardcore for noobs and mid level players...so much so that they rush to youtube to become "insta-vets".

For me, it's now casual after 5 years of play but was hardcore.