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Star Days: Hotfix 29.8.1


[DE]Rebecca

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In Orb Vallis there is short stutter every 5 seconds. FPS drops from 144(capped) to 120 or so.

This is on Enhanced graphics settings DX11 mode, since dx12 mode is still stutter fest.

Borderless full screen at 1440p, freesync enabled

5950x 63C full load, 50C while gaming

6900xt no resizable bar enabled

16GB 3466Mhz c14 RAM

Samsung nvme SSD (OS)/Intel 750 series pcie SSD (Game install)

Win 10 latest patches

 

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more then a year and still no damn fix for operator bug when u go in and out of operator form just to void dash and u get stuck on just walking animations without been able to do nothing related to playing ( like using abilities, guns and so on). Its been more then a #*!%ing year and no solution for this problem ( i cant capture video cuz my pc sucks but im certain that most ppl got thru this glitch, its like ur warframe is stuck in just relay action like sprinting and jumping and it happens often but its enough to make u mad, cuz the only way of unglitching it is killing urself or either use archwing).

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb Grimm:

 Little disappointed hoped you guys had finally decided bringing them back in some way and releasing new ones might be worth while consider they tend to be edge case replacements for arcanes anyway. 

if you want them,buy them

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4 hours ago, mrgudveseli said:

I do. No one-shot builds, no riven bs, the boss isn't a bullet sponge, timing and reflexes actually matter. Too hard for you, mmm? :P 

 

You seem to mistake someone being a tad hyperbolic, and saltiness.

 

I hate Nihil, I like the Moon Lord.  Let me explain, as Terraria might not be something you have played.  NIhil has relatively poor telegraphing on hits, and takes the player's options for movement away based largely on an RNG attack pattern.  This sort of thing works well, when not bugged, in other missions like the Ropalolyst fight.  Each round there's less opportunity to move around, but there's always something that can be done and the consequences are fixed and reasonable.  Likewise the Ropalolyst, after many hotfixes, telegraphs all attacks so there's always something a player can do to deal with the boss.  

 

Nihil theoretically telegraphs attacks, but the issue is that sometimes an overhead and horizontal slash are not telegraphed correctly.  On top of this, the attack range and coverage for these actions is actually a good deal larger than the visual cue, and that often results in unfair deaths when you've got an instant kill boss.  Combine this with constantly losing floor, and teleports that can literally have him spin behind you and smash a glass shard into you while trying desperately to glide to one of the available platforms, and you've got frustration.

 

 

What about Terraria?  Well, the final boss is arguably the Moon Lord.  Said Moon Lord has multiple locations to spawn damage from.  If you get close to it, a tendril shoots out and disables your health regeneration.  It moves around quite quickly, and fires large AoE attacks.  All of that sounds surprisingly cheap....just like Nihil.  The difference is that none of this is unfair.  If you rely on regeneration you can be extra mobile, so the tendril doesn't get you.  The projectiles are 100% telegraphed, and you can avoid nearly all of them.  No mechanics are ignored....looking at you the single time reduced gravity from Zephyr would have been a huge improvement.  Finally, after the multiple stage battle the Moon Lord drops at least a loot sack.  That is to say multiple new items that could make any player happy.  They even have an RNG system built in, and the drops are cosmetics.  Holy crap, it's the same system warframe adopted, for the Exploiter Orb, just much older and not based on garbage RNG.

 

 

 

So, let me TL;DR

If your argument is that there are no problems, because you like a thing, then I'd refer you back to defending conclave.  Yeah.....people exist that like it too.

Was it fair to generalize that nobody liked Nihil?  No.  That said, based upon feedback threads this is a minority of players.  Sometime being hyperbolic is inaccurate, but reasonably speaking Nihil went over like a lead balloon with the community at large.

 

Do you want a fix?  How about the platforms regenerate after 3 subsequent ones are destroyed.  This would mean things are easier to navigate, but there would always be a penalty.  How about some blasted play testing, so the telegraphs were more distinct and clear.  How about the reward squares the circle, and instead of just a heavy blade we get a skin for the glass shotgun (Astilla).  This would give us a bridge between Gara and Nihil, and maybe the nearly year of waiting for a resolution to the Nightwave would feel like less of a damp squib when it comes down to it.

But what do I know?  I'm just another butt hurt player, who can't appreciate this new boss.  It's not like Super Mario 64 managed this concept better in 1996 with Bowser and the bombs you need to throw him into.  Oh wait....that's exactly the opposite of what I just said.  DE managed to take a 3d version of a boss with disappearing platforms (Mario 64 is the first 3d game to do this to my knowledge, but I could well be incorrect), and make it worse.  Slow clap.

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On 2021-02-18 at 9:36 PM, Eklectus said:

Are you planning to fix the lack of Familial/Medical debt bonds at Ticker's?

I've gotten the Medical bonds from Ticker. I stock-piled them the week before the event's release.

They actually come in a 3pack, with the shelter and training bonds. Advance has been a problem for me, since I can't spend the time ingame that I used to ( check every 2 hours ).

Right now, I'm farming the bonds by only doing the first stage of the bounty. If they don't show up, I go back and start the mission again. Anything you looted is kept, so there's no need to go through all the stages.

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On 2021-02-18 at 5:04 PM, fo3nixz said:

even if its in steelpath only, i wont mind

but they  changed old scale beacue people were complaining too much ( bullet sponge) ..... they made it  better by changing scaling, then people cried for harder missions , DE gave them steel path and people complained its too hard and they had to nerf it and then people complined its too easy.... make up ur mind

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12 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

You seem to mistake someone being a tad hyperbolic, and saltiness.

 

I hate Nihil, I like the Moon Lord.  Let me explain, as Terraria might not be something you have played.  NIhil has relatively poor telegraphing on hits, and takes the player's options for movement away based largely on an RNG attack pattern.  This sort of thing works well, when not bugged, in other missions like the Ropalolyst fight.  Each round there's less opportunity to move around, but there's always something that can be done and the consequences are fixed and reasonable.  Likewise the Ropalolyst, after many hotfixes, telegraphs all attacks so there's always something a player can do to deal with the boss.  

 

Nihil theoretically telegraphs attacks, but the issue is that sometimes an overhead and horizontal slash are not telegraphed correctly.  On top of this, the attack range and coverage for these actions is actually a good deal larger than the visual cue, and that often results in unfair deaths when you've got an instant kill boss.  Combine this with constantly losing floor, and teleports that can literally have him spin behind you and smash a glass shard into you while trying desperately to glide to one of the available platforms, and you've got frustration.

 

 

What about Terraria?  Well, the final boss is arguably the Moon Lord.  Said Moon Lord has multiple locations to spawn damage from.  If you get close to it, a tendril shoots out and disables your health regeneration.  It moves around quite quickly, and fires large AoE attacks.  All of that sounds surprisingly cheap....just like Nihil.  The difference is that none of this is unfair.  If you rely on regeneration you can be extra mobile, so the tendril doesn't get you.  The projectiles are 100% telegraphed, and you can avoid nearly all of them.  No mechanics are ignored....looking at you the single time reduced gravity from Zephyr would have been a huge improvement.  Finally, after the multiple stage battle the Moon Lord drops at least a loot sack.  That is to say multiple new items that could make any player happy.  They even have an RNG system built in, and the drops are cosmetics.  Holy crap, it's the same system warframe adopted, for the Exploiter Orb, just much older and not based on garbage RNG.

 

 

 

So, let me TL;DR

If your argument is that there are no problems, because you like a thing, then I'd refer you back to defending conclave.  Yeah.....people exist that like it too.

Was it fair to generalize that nobody liked Nihil?  No.  That said, based upon feedback threads this is a minority of players.  Sometime being hyperbolic is inaccurate, but reasonably speaking Nihil went over like a lead balloon with the community at large.

 

Do you want a fix?  How about the platforms regenerate after 3 subsequent ones are destroyed.  This would mean things are easier to navigate, but there would always be a penalty.  How about some blasted play testing, so the telegraphs were more distinct and clear.  How about the reward squares the circle, and instead of just a heavy blade we get a skin for the glass shotgun (Astilla).  This would give us a bridge between Gara and Nihil, and maybe the nearly year of waiting for a resolution to the Nightwave would feel like less of a damp squib when it comes down to it.

But what do I know?  I'm just another butt hurt player, who can't appreciate this new boss.  It's not like Super Mario 64 managed this concept better in 1996 with Bowser and the bombs you need to throw him into.  Oh wait....that's exactly the opposite of what I just said.  DE managed to take a 3d version of a boss with disappearing platforms (Mario 64 is the first 3d game to do this to my knowledge, but I could well be incorrect), and make it worse.  Slow clap.

Please, too much text to show the amount of overthinking that went into it. Chill, it's a video-game, not a scientific research. Play if you like, what you don't like, don't play it, or play it if you really have to.

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16 minutes ago, niblo said:

but they  changed old scale beacue people were complaining too much ( bullet sponge) ..... they made it  better by changing scaling, then people cried for harder missions , DE gave them steel path and people complained its too hard and they had to nerf it and then people complined its too easy.... make up ur mind

Ikr. DE tries to catter to too many kinds of players at once. 

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1 hour ago, niblo said:

but they  changed old scale beacue people were complaining too much ( bullet sponge) ..... they made it  better by changing scaling, then people cried for harder missions , DE gave them steel path and people complained its too hard and they had to nerf it and then people complined its too easy.... make up ur mind

err not everybody complained about old scaling. steelpath units  is meh compared to old units tbh

 

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2 hours ago, mrgudveseli said:

Please, too much text to show the amount of overthinking that went into it. Chill, it's a video-game, not a scientific research. Play if you like, what you don't like, don't play it, or play it if you really have to.

 

Too much text to express the standard dismissal of value.  The standard, ironically, nihilistic value of if it isn't fun don't even engage.

 

 

Maybe somebody at DE has a sense of verbal pun humor.  I can only say that when a Nintendo 64 game outstrips your realization of a boss battle in 2020 it's a bad sign about your ability to realize content.  When Terraria can do bosses better than you, and their entire development team would be required to match the personnel on your streams it's funny. 

 

I don't have any hate for the Nihil boss, but I do have apathy.   After almost a year of waiting, 90's adventure game puzzles, eyes straining visual effects, and mission flow breaking semi-invincible enemies spawning the reward is a single weapon.  Yeah....  If the battle was decent it'd be hard to love in the face of that.  

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb niblo:

but they  changed old scale beacue people were complaining too much ( bullet sponge) ..... they made it  better by changing scaling, then people cried for harder missions , DE gave them steel path and people complained its too hard and they had to nerf it and then people complined its too easy.... make up ur mind

Old enemies were fine,completely,i never complained enemies are too hard,the people who complain about that will always complain because its not the enemy at fault for being spongy its the people for using bad builds/synergies/methods to kill them,they just fail to realise that and ask why a skana doesnt kill a level 9999 enemy instantly 

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Performance hit in Deimos volts with a lot of enemies is huge on Enhanced (dx11). I don't know what hardware you guys are targeting, but ultra high end hardware is kinda "struggling" with it. ~70fps from 144fps (capped)

6900xt

5950x (PBO enabled) watercooled

16GB 3466Mhz c14 RAM

Samsung nvme SSD (OS)/Intel 750 Series pcie nvme SSD (game install)

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6 hours ago, FSK41 said:

Old enemies were fine,completely,i never complained enemies are too hard,the people who complain about that will always complain because its not the enemy at fault for being spongy its the people for using bad builds/synergies/methods to kill them,they just fail to realise that and ask why a skana doesnt kill a level 9999 enemy instantly 

 

So, help me understand here.  There are a number of statements that DE has made over the nearly decade of this game.  They include:

1) Warframe is a game meant to be played in small "bite-sized" chunks.

2) Warframe is a game about player choice, and supporting that.

3) Warframe will cater to both new players and casual players with content.

 

I have to provide the above, so you understand where I am coming from.  Now, let me explain what I know the endurance runners almost always focused on.  At one point it was crowd control, until those powers ate a general nerf.  They then focused on game breaking cheese.  Remember that at one point in the past melee combat was only slightly less effective than guns.  After that, people focused on cheese.  Covert Lethality was a thing.

 

Now, DE shifted the balance a lot.  Arcanes ate a nerf, but might be slightly buffed.  Shields matter now.  Melee combat got a complete rework.  Certain mods ate a huge nerf, while others have been restructured to compete.  Etc....etc....etc...

The result is that right now the game is much friendlier to newer players.  There's no less challenge, only that you no longer need to use cheese to do the job.  I won't dignify the comment that it's skill based, because you cannot identify any instance where enemy AI or response has been improved.  Additionally, it's not a greater challenge when you make a pinata with two feet of paper mache, it just means you've got to hit the thing more to get to the candy inside it.  That's a fine point people miss when showing the eHP calculations comparing level 9999 versus 500, or whatever insanity people want to compare with today.  

 

 

 

TL;DR

For those with no attention span, the changes to the game didn't remove challenge.  They removed bullet sponges.  To remove challenge they'd have to make things actually require a brain.  People complaining that the current build is bad generally are trying to high-road against new players....and those that don't understand that are depressing.  If you hate newer players, fine.  That's stupid, but at least you're not trying to pretend Warframe was ever meant to be a challenge based game.  If it was, the starting 3 points here would be silly for the developer to have made.

 

Alternatively, DE doesn't know the definition of words.  The "thousands of registered losers" thing was accurate.  On top of all this, my thick sarcasm dripped over this last paragraph is not actually sarcasm.  I'm trying to cap this off with a laugh because otherwise it's depressing.  I'm not sure how I can get that across.

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8 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

So, help me understand here.  There are a number of statements that DE has made over the nearly decade of this game.  They include:

1) Warframe is a game meant to be played in small "bite-sized" chunks.

2) Warframe is a game about player choice, and supporting that.

3) Warframe will cater to both new players and casual players with content.

 

I have to provide the above, so you understand where I am coming from.  Now, let me explain what I know the endurance runners almost always focused on.  At one point it was crowd control, until those powers ate a general nerf.  They then focused on game breaking cheese.  Remember that at one point in the past melee combat was only slightly less effective than guns.  After that, people focused on cheese.  Covert Lethality was a thing.

 

Now, DE shifted the balance a lot.  Arcanes ate a nerf, but might be slightly buffed.  Shields matter now.  Melee combat got a complete rework.  Certain mods ate a huge nerf, while others have been restructured to compete.  Etc....etc....etc...

The result is that right now the game is much friendlier to newer players.  There's no less challenge, only that you no longer need to use cheese to do the job.  I won't dignify the comment that it's skill based, because you cannot identify any instance where enemy AI or response has been improved.  Additionally, it's not a greater challenge when you make a pinata with two feet of paper mache, it just means you've got to hit the thing more to get to the candy inside it.  That's a fine point people miss when showing the eHP calculations comparing level 9999 versus 500, or whatever insanity people want to compare with today.  

 

 

 

TL;DR

For those with no attention span, the changes to the game didn't remove challenge.  They removed bullet sponges.  To remove challenge they'd have to make things actually require a brain.  People complaining that the current build is bad generally are trying to high-road against new players....and those that don't understand that are depressing.  If you hate newer players, fine.  That's stupid, but at least you're not trying to pretend Warframe was ever meant to be a challenge based game.  If it was, the starting 3 points here would be silly for the developer to have made.

 

Alternatively, DE doesn't know the definition of words.  The "thousands of registered losers" thing was accurate.  On top of all this, my thick sarcasm dripped over this last paragraph is not actually sarcasm.  I'm trying to cap this off with a laugh because otherwise it's depressing.  I'm not sure how I can get that across.

The "steel path", is nothing but a cesspool with bullet-sponges floating around. Even the best meta builds take a bit to kill.

Also, there's plenty of "cheese" left in warframe. Saryn and the Rev can still "press 4 to win" and the damn lockdown arcane for operators.

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3 minutes ago, GrazeZeroLow said:

The "steel path", is nothing but a cesspool with bullet-sponges floating around. Even the best meta builds take a bit to kill.

Also, there's plenty of "cheese" left in warframe. Saryn and the Rev can still "press 4 to win" and the damn lockdown arcane for operators.

 

1) Saryn building for her 4 is a very limited situation.  There is a definite point where even with insane power strength the tactic is still to hit four then melee while they're stun locked.  I personally see more value in her spores, because they cannot be outclassed by bullet sponges.  Oh boy....I just made an oopsy, and revealed that scaling powers are a thing.  It's not like that's been in the game for years.  It's also not like people recognized this a long time ago, and why most new frames have incorporated some scaling mechanic to not become irrelevant.

2) Revenant's 4 is the exact same deal.  It's great for trash mobs, but will hit a hard cap on its use.  People generally get around this by using power synergy with mesmer skin.  Oh boy....a power synergy.  Also, a power that completely fails with AoE damage, as it technically has no enemy to redirect to.

3) I don't even know how to express disappointment with the listed other items.  Lockdown ate a nerf, and requires you to grind the Profit Taker or Exploiter orbs.  That is, unless you want to get 2,100 of the toroids dropped at random by enemies on the Vallis....ignoring the extra you'll need to rank up.  Hmmm.....  Long term grind for a minor convenience feature on an operator is making things easier?  It's almost like DE has provided a minor convenience to players willing to endure a grind, and a financial incentive for grinders to get a bunch of those arcanes and trade them to payers so as to avoid the grind.

 

 

Let me repeat this one more time.  Your argument is that things have become less challenging.  You don't get to change it, to "but there's cheese."  My argument is that cheese was required in the older versions of the game, and it isn't any longer.  Care to take another swing at the argument?  I'm quite familiar with the moving goalposts people like you are constantly setting.  If you go from "but it's too easy" to "your argument is invalid because there's still cheese" then you'd better have a hell of a good reason to do it.  I cannot see yours.

 

As an FYI, the Steel Path is not an argument against or for cheese.  It's an experiment DE did to offer a "Hard" mode without understanding what that meant.  As usual, their version of hard was to make a thicker pinata.  There are games that do hard mode well.  Generally speaking though, they don't just increase numbers.  They introduce new behaviors, modify existing enemies, and don't strip interaction methods.

Case in point, Doom: Eternal.  At no point do you suddenly lose the ability to use a shotgun.  You can have terrain effectively altered by a Carcas, with one of those shields, which shapes and evolves the gameplay.  Warframe didn't do this.  They saw powers were used too often, so they introduced nullifiers.  Nullifiers initially were 100% alerted at spawn, so could not effectively allow for stealth play with powers.  They then introduced the Combas, who did the same but with an invisible field.  Joy.  Neither the nullifier or the comba are a test of a skill, they're simply an energy toll.  When DE saw this they chose a single underused weapon, and gave it a syndicate mod that would pop the bubble instantly most of the time.  So....we've gone from no counterplay, to cheap and no counterplay, to a single option in play stealing a weapon mod slot and forcing you to a single weapon choice.  You know, I think there's a reason that demons in Doom: Eternal are weak to a weapon, but not completely immune (with the exception of the possessed).  It's a bad look when instead of being allowed to adapt, you're railroaded into a single option....and DE knew this the better part of a decade ago.  At least, they knew it when they stated that the game was about player choice.

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25 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

It's an experiment DE did to offer a "Hard" mode without understanding what that meant.

In DE's defence, it was a response to the player-feedback asking for the option to start missions at a higher enemy level.  The repeated request on these forums was for endless runs to be able to skip the first few rounds and go straight to a higher level (and the repeated request often came with the statement that rewards would not need to change as it was a 'for fun' option and AI didn't need changed, just simply change starting enemy level).  Of course, once implemented it the calls for better rewards and even tougher enemies came in, but the original 'design brief' was just higher levels so we can skip the first few rounds of waiting for enemies to rank up.

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2 hours ago, Katinka said:

In DE's defence, it was a response to the player-feedback asking for the option to start missions at a higher enemy level.  The repeated request on these forums was for endless runs to be able to skip the first few rounds and go straight to a higher level (and the repeated request often came with the statement that rewards would not need to change as it was a 'for fun' option and AI didn't need changed, just simply change starting enemy level).  Of course, once implemented it the calls for better rewards and even tougher enemies came in, but the original 'design brief' was just higher levels so we can skip the first few rounds of waiting for enemies to rank up.

 

Whoa.  Hold those horses for a minute.  

 

1) A challenging mode for veteran players has been requested for literal years.  Note, devoid of the caveat about "rewards not mattering."  If you want proof, go back to the youtube channels of creators that were purged due to inactivity in the culling.  You can see people in 2015 generating the "fashion frame is endgame" meme.  To be abundantly clear, this is people saying there is no endgame, and they want it.  

2) Steel Path was not a direct response to a challenge mode request.  It was a direct response to the testing chamber for Simaris.

3) The testing chamber?  Yes.  I did not misspeak.  Read back through the commentary, and you'll find that a DE developer was angry that people on youtube always tested new gear in the chamber, rather than on missions.  They got angry that this was "misrepresenting the content of warframe."  To "fix" this problem the Steel Path was introduced.

4) About those rewards....have you played recently?  150 Steel Essence every couple of months for an umbral forma blue print.  Yeah.  When your reward for steel path is the ultimate reward for your nightwave then you really don't get to call it "just for fun" anymore.  So....you then want to change the definition and call for a rewards increase...It really seems like a moving target here.  

 

5) It's kind of funny, going back to the rewards, that you'd rest your hat on that argument.  Before release people were questioning why in Hades we'd want to do a mission with level 102+ enemies for Lith relics.  DE responded on stream basically throwing their hands in the air, and saying it was too hard and the mode was just for fun.  That argument was viable, again only until Steel Essence became required to get large scale rewards.  To be abundantly clear, I define large scale only by the fact that you need 30 nightwave ranks to get an umbral forma otherwise.  I personally believe the mod selection is still too limited to make these expensive mods worth the effort, but Umbral Inaros is a huge HP meme.

6) I'll end here, as a packaging of the other points.  Your quotation is "...but the original 'design brief' was just higher levels so we can skip the first few rounds of waiting for enemies to rank up."  This indicates to me you understand this was not about the challenge of the mode, only the rank of enemies associated and how much of a sponge they were.  See point 2 and 3.  If your goal is simply to do this, add one node.  Give players access to choose enemy levels, and give a band of levels to start with.  Bam.  Rewards scale with initial band, and you get to skip starting levels.  Instead DE just added a whole new level to the star chart, and forced us to complete it all again.  When the inevitable happened, and only a few nodes were ever replayed, they got angry.  See the Khora nerf.  They then reintroduced Steel Path, as something entirely different.  At this point the Steel Path was not for fun, through you may have fun with it.  Steel Path was about earning essence, to accumulate and horde until you can buy a high level reward.

 

 

 

This final clarification can be ignored, but let me explain the philosophy behind point 6.  Assuming you're old enough, you may remember cars that could be worked on.  If you replace the lights, it's still the same car.  If you replace the transmission, it's still the same car.  If you re-upholster it, it's the same car.  Now replace the engine, braking system, and suspension system.  Is it still the same car?  What if while you are replacing the components you upgrade them?  The engine and transmission get replaced for a racing system.  Ditto with the suspension and braking.  Can you still call it the same car?  

Well, I don't believe so.  Your argument is that, being fair, DE started with a civic so we should judge it as such.  It's pretty unfair, unless you're similarly willing to jettison everything not "space ninjas."  That includes about 90% of the open worlds (setting, enemies, themes, events), which are about 60% of the content added in the last three years.  You'd also need to jettison Railjack, accounting for about another 20%.  Hmmm.  .6*.9 = .54.  .54+.2 = .74.  74% of content for the last three years....ouch.  It kind of seems like applying a consistent rule, that content is only valued as originally promised to be delivered, is a mess.  This is why I judge things not as promised, and why I can never do that with DE.  If you somehow can, power to you.  I'll pretty much always be able to counter you with a promise DE made that they haven't delivered upon years later.  I cannot even begin to catalog the moving target promises, or the bull-shot that was the 2018 Tennocon video introducing Fortuna and Railjack.  My go-to list of non-delivered items includes:

Dual wield Nikanas

The Ghoul Saw (which we may get soon, though the "SoonTM" meme is probably accurate)

Zephyr Deluxe (no, not the new wipe-out version.  The one promised, lost, recreated, and now mysteriously delayed)

Hydroid Prime Trailer (It only took until after it was vaulted before we got the trailer, that has been "90%" done for years)

Stability (yeah....looking at Arbitrations not requiring resurgence burdens to respawn, falling through the world, and a litany of other ongoing issues that are "fixed" in one patch are come back the next one)

 

Note that 2 of these things may see closure soon, or be addressed.  I don't let them slip, because when something 90% done can take longer than other games take to be developed it's something that we should always be aware of when things get promised.  

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