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150 Riven mod max capacity limit


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On 2021-02-20 at 10:15 PM, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Not really, since weapons and frames have set statistics, rivens do not have set statistics, data wise they are heavier.

The stats of the Warframe (run speed, armor, etc) are static, so there's no need to store any of that information at all. But you do need to store all of the general information (like rank and XP), appearance, and upgrade data. Going down the list for Warframes:

Spoiler

General (10 data points):

  • Unique instance ID of the Warframe (to differentiate it from other copies - forgot this one)
  • Which Warframe it actually is (actually forgot this one, too!)
  • Rank
  • Total XP
  • Total Kills (these would actually be global account stats, not per instance)
  • Total Assists
  • Potato
  • Exilus
  • Lens (edit: forgot this one)
  • Number of Forma
  • If there's a boil
  • Age of the boil

Appearance (at least 162 data points):

  • 1 Helmet
  • 1 Skin
  • 1 Animation Set
  • 8 colors
  • 5 Armor attachments
  • 1 Auxiliary (sometimes)
  • 1 Ephemera
  • 8 colors
  • 1 Syandana
  • 8 colors
  • 2 Emblems
  • 2 Sigils, each with Rotation, Width, height, X Offset, Y Offset, Alpha, and Color
  • Whether or not to show Prime parts (forgot this one)
  • This is all multiplied by at least 3

Upgrades (at least 102 data points + 96 characters):

  • Polarity of the 10 mod slots
  • Mods in the 10 mod slots
  • Mods in the 10 mod slots (Conclave loadout)
  • Arcanes in the 2 Arcane slots
  • Subsumed ability
  • Subsumed ability index (which one it replaces)
  • The name of the config (16 characters)
  • The name of the config (Conclave loadout, 16 characters)
  • This is also multiplied by at least 3

And whatever else I missed.

That's what, at least 274* data points and 96 bytes of text? And I probably missed some! All of this needs to be stored on DE's servers too. Weapons are likewise pretty bad, melee especially (there are a ton of holster position settings to track). Kuva weapons have even more with an element and damage percentage. Weapons can also be renamed, which is more text. It's quite bit more than the 14 data points needed for a Riven no matter how you try and count them; a Warframe's colors alone ought to take up as much or more space. And by cost, Warframe slots are the same price as Rivens slots but weapon slots are less than 1/3rd the cost.

Edited by PublikDomain
Missed a few
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I'm at the cap but hesitate to melt any since I have come to regret doing it a couple times in the past. You never know when DE adds a weapon variant that is actually good even if the original sucks.

I look at it positively though, no reason to spend any more plat and can skip "bad" sorties without feeling I missed out on rolling for new rivens. Easy to sell unopened Rivens too.

Haven't changed loadout for the past 1.5 years anyways, getting good rolls on Rivens is so rare that I consider myself lucky to have managed it even once 😅

 

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5 hours ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

That's not a good enough reason in itself

Even if they increase it, you'll get back on the forums to ask for more

i believe when he said that, what he meant to convey is that there will always be pain felt by collector players if the system require them to unceremoniously delete something they gain, regardless of what the limit is.

Increasing the limit isn't the solution, yes, but the pain is real, and the reason the game make us collector player feel that pain over and over and over and over and over again every time we reach the limit is unjustifiable. 

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There are already slightly over 300 unique weapons with over a third of them being melee. It seems silly to increase the capacity solely for the sake of those who have the need to have a 100% collection of all Rivens. And Practically speaking there is nobody that is using even half of all the weapons in the game actively enough to justify Rivens for all of them especially when so many melee weapons and older guns are functionally identical.

If they did make the cap equal to the number of unique weapons then if there is any long term issue whatsoever with storing Riven data then the issue would only get worse over time since they aren't going to stop making new weapons any time soon. And in regards to storing their data if there is size concerns over them then it doesn't help that slots are a one-time purchase and servers (rented or owned) have ongoing costs.

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it would be better: if you don't need a slot for unlocked riven for weapons you have. and these 150 slots are a bonus. then it would not be an issue.
but i haven't been interested in riven for a long time. because i only have ridiculous riven dispo for my weapons.

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Unpopular opinion, but I believe Riven Mods would have been way better at a hard limit tied to Mastery Rank. No slots or cap increases.

With the way these mods work, it would have been way healthier to force players to optimize mods and dissolve/trade less good ones than to keep allowing players to keep as much as they can. I just find it impossible to believe that people actually use all of their Rivens.

Edited by Voltage
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16 hours ago, Krankbert said:

Server storage is cents per gigabyte per month at any cloud provider, they're selling the slots for a dollar and we absolutely have some idea of how much server space a riven takes.

The fact that you think mass bulk storage vs active storage is even in the same category indicates you have little to no experience in IT infrastructure.  

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I just assume they are saving extra riven slots for future rewards.

 

But generally speaking you can't take corporations at their word for various of reasons.

Not to be rude or anything but if you open up with "the developers said..." you need a reality check.

They are there to get as much money out of you as possible, with as little cost and effort to themselves as possible. That's their loyalty.

Which isn't wrong or controversial, a business trying to make money... so what else is new.

The story is whatever it needs to be in relation to what they think is the best business - with the only limit being what people will be naive enough to believe.

In defense of the developers, no matter what choices they make someone is going to get angry, so you can't "please people" anyway.

In the grown-up world this is called professionalism.

When a nurse smiles at you and ask how you are doing at the hospital, it doesn't mean they are actually interested or they care about you or even if you live or die... lol. They are doing a job.

So I will say all that comes down you needing to convince the developers it's a better business decision.

Things not being worked on weren't important enough in terms of money.

Like for instance, if they learned someone found a way to dupe plat, they would have a fix out in under 7 minutes. While Banshee is going to go ignored from here on out.

It's just business.

Meaning, on your end, you have to both add in "how to make a lot more money" and "low production cost" of your suggestions.

They might even agree with something but can't earn enough of an in-come from putting in the work.

 

So you really need to structure all suggestion posts with the same structure as scam emails.

"Earn $2,000,000 from home FAST!!!!".

How are they getting money and how easy will it be. That's all there is to talk about

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18 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

I am not dealing with another person with "collector issues", it is starting sound like some old person who can't let go and start hoard and cluster the dang house.

  Reveal hidden contents

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I just think it would make sense to be able to have a riven for every weapon. Now, I have no idea how many that would be... lets just say there are a combined total of 400 weapons for arguments sake in which some of those rives have variant types, primes, vandal, prisma, etc. Ideally you'd try and collect 1 of each "viable" weapon type with actual usability. But if you wanted to collect just Stug and Torrid rivens... well, more power too ya I guess. Being capped at 150 rivens stifles theorycrafting, at least it does for me... I like to play with builds for all sorts of weapons not just the meta. 

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Just now, PublikDomain said:

Almost like it's a a recurring issue... 🤔

Indeed

obviously the current approach doesn't work if it keeps coming back.

keep giving players more slots, they keep complaining anyway.

 

maybe DE needs to approach this from a different angle?

address Why players think they Need Rivens? do something to de-emphasize their apparent Necessity?

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55 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Like removing the cap altogether? People can't complain about the cap if there is no cap.

Sure they can complain.

no cap would eventually lead to a saturation of Rivens and reduce their trade value. Plenty of Traders who might complain about that.

And the biggest profiteer is DE themselves, plat exchanged between players all originated from an RMT to DE, so its in their interest to maintain high demand.

Edited by (PSN)haphazardlynamed
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2 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

no cap would eventually lead to a saturation of Rivens and reduce their trade value.

And the biggest profiteer is DE themselves, plat exchanged between players all originated from an RMT to DE, so its in their interest to maintain high demand.

Why would it do that? It could be argued that it would increase their trade value, too. More inventory space means more demand. If a whale hits their cap they can't buy any more and they stop being a buyer, so eventually demand will dry up as players reach their limits and can't buy any more. And removing the cap means a lot more plat exiting the economy through slot sales, which is in DE's interest.

3 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Plenty of Traders who might complain about that.

I'm sure they'd prefer the extra inventory space to store their wares, though I can't stress enough how little I care about this particular segment. I see no reason to make concessions in order to protect the profits of a small number of traders over the accessibility and enjoyment of the playerbase as a whole.

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15 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

obviously the current approach doesn't work if it keeps coming back.

But if it only 'keeps coming back' with a group of loud forum users, then it's a tiny minority based on what we know about numbers of players vs. posters, so there is no reason to change the current approach.

Just because a few loud forum goers want something, does not mean the desire is valid at scale.

In every single GaaS game I have ever played and watched, the 'collectors' are never, ever satisfied. Even a single short-term event item can start a holy war, IME.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Zimzala:

But if it only 'keeps coming back' with a group of loud forum users, then it's a tiny minority based on what we know about numbers of players vs. posters, so there is no reason to change the current approach.

The funny thing is that from now on, I'm going to assume that everyone who doesn't explicitly state that he doesn't want the limit increased is in favor of increasing the limit, and there isn't a single thing you can say against it.

  

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Zimzala:

In every single GaaS game I have ever played and watched, the 'collectors' are never, ever satisfied.

And for completion's sake and not because I believe for a second that you didn't deliberately ignore all the other times this has been said: This is so obviously not true because the limit can be arbitrarily high. It can be thousands. It can be two billion.

Edited by Krankbert
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19 hours ago, -Pandemic- said:

I just think it would make sense to be able to have a riven for every weapon. Now, I have no idea how many that would be... lets just say there are a combined total of 400 weapons for arguments sake in which some of those rives have variant types, primes, vandal, prisma, etc. Ideally you'd try and collect 1 of each "viable" weapon type with actual usability. But if you wanted to collect just Stug and Torrid rivens... well, more power too ya I guess. Being capped at 150 rivens stifles theorycrafting, at least it does for me... I like to play with builds for all sorts of weapons not just the meta. 

sorry, I am kind of person who hate hoarder because I seen ppl's old home who is a hoarder...its terrified me... I only going tell you heads up, if someone is hoarding lots of junk, please call someone to get that person get help seriously if you don't and you end up "helping" somehow, but beware things falling on top of you like metal bar example (legit seriously had thous moment almost got hit by thous) for it will feel like a war zone in there dropping bombardment trap on top your head. (Yes the person got helped, and almost got traumatized by it several time)

Anyway, riven mod isn't bad just too much of them is just there for collection but could also end up meaningless, you may have riven mods but there is always unending riven because dev is going make more guns and melee for ppl chase after for also meaningless to try collect them all.  It is like pokemon once you collect them all and felt like you accomplish but after that once your done the game you'll soon forget about the game what you accomplish for by whom will remember your accomplishment, just remember, having a collection may seem good to you but to other they may grow jealous or not but some won't do the same because they aren't like that way for they will find meaningless because there is no point collecting greatness or make a legend about yourself for drawing attention with small boast for someone will come by smash that pride good just like how ppl fight in martial art torment but there is only 1 victor for the boastful will end up crying going back home even thou boastful might win for victory is only temporary and barely anyone will remember your victory next 100s of years after that and if they do it is also meaningless for them too.  For where I am leading with all this to point the direction these things are worldly for also bring meaningless tides for men only can live 120 years unlike our ancestor who was able lived over more 500 years still their story only told like a candle stick that is lit just got blown out by simple gust or their their time has been done.  Thus not many understood point of meaning of life or life to be, but remember enjoy it while it last even thou life can be feeling meaningless but there is 1 road could answer of what is meaning of life.

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1 hour ago, ChaoticEdge said:

sorry, I am kind of person who hate hoarder because I seen ppl's old home who is a hoarder...its terrified me... I only going tell you heads up, if someone is hoarding lots of junk, please call someone to get that person get help seriously if you don't and you end up "helping" somehow, but beware things falling on top of you like metal bar example (legit seriously had thous moment almost got hit by thous) for it will feel like a war zone in there dropping bombardment trap on top your head. (Yes the person got helped, and almost got traumatized by it several time)

Anyway, riven mod isn't bad just too much of them is just there for collection but could also end up meaningless, you may have riven mods but there is always unending riven because dev is going make more guns and melee for ppl chase after for also meaningless to try collect them all.  It is like pokemon once you collect them all and felt like you accomplish but after that once your done the game you'll soon forget about the game what you accomplish for by whom will remember your accomplishment, just remember, having a collection may seem good to you but to other they may grow jealous or not but some won't do the same because they aren't like that way for they will find meaningless because there is no point collecting greatness or make a legend about yourself for drawing attention with small boast for someone will come by smash that pride good just like how ppl fight in martial art torment but there is only 1 victor for the boastful will end up crying going back home even thou boastful might win for victory is only temporary and barely anyone will remember your victory next 100s of years after that and if they do it is also meaningless for them too.  For where I am leading with all this to point the direction these things are worldly for also bring meaningless tides for men only can live 120 years unlike our ancestor who was able lived over more 500 years still their story only told like a candle stick that is lit just got blown out by simple gust or their their time has been done.  Thus not many understood point of meaning of life or life to be, but remember enjoy it while it last even thou life can be feeling meaningless but there is 1 road could answer of what is meaning of life.

Basically

?we should all stop wasting our lives playing a videogame and go out and do something real?

 

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vor einer Stunde schrieb ChaoticEdge:

For where I am leading with all this to point the direction these things are worldly for also bring meaningless tides for men only can live 120 years unlike our ancestor who was able lived over more 500 years

Sorry what.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

If you reach the highest possible riven cap. What happens to any new rivens you get? Donthey just poof? Or do you stop getting rivens?

If you're at your cap you can't get new ones through trade or from vendors like Palladino, and if you get one from a Sortie you end up being over the cap and can't do Sorties anymore until you make room. Plus you get a shiny new annoying popup telling you to sell or dissolve a Riven to make room.

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18 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Basically

?we should all stop wasting our lives playing a videogame and go out and do something real?

 

here and there just saying, just enjoy best you can even it become hevel sometime it become well how can I say "boring" but there is a time to take off from video game and try enjoy life outside here and there, do small adventure without the danger.  Try enjoy with a family, friends, even love one for there is time for thous and there is always time for gaming but sometime time may feel always meaningless for questioning life why we were chosen in this life for it is always a mist, a hevel for a thing unobtainable to for fill the answer.  I am not saying life is meaingless even thou tides like these do get boring but video games is always will be there and still be there before and after.  For just make up the time for everything and everything in that seconds before you don't know that unfilling truth.

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