Solution for nightwave release issue

[Cerikus]

There is NO reason to give each nightwave a unique story. DE have figured that out already as well. The question that seems obvious to me is: 

Why is the nightwave not connected to the mainline updates? 

I will explain how it should look like based on the upcomming Tempestari update:

- the update is getting closer, so DE record Nora voicelines that would tease the lore of the update and they release it on all platforms a month before the update
- there are no episodes, just a play button that can be pushed to listen to some creepypasta
- put in cool rewards up to the rank 30, while some of those rewards should tease the upcoming update (there are bound to be new resources and the new requiem mod, so put some in there)
- that's literally all DE need to do. When the update drops, people can either catch up on the nightwave or go play the new update.

It would need very little devtime, would be super cool and get a great schedule.

The 2020 nightwave could have been like:
Empyrean nightwave: December (2019) - January
Scarlet spear nightwave: February - March
Deadlock protocol nightwave: April - June
Deimos nightwave: July - September
Arcana nightwave: October - November
Orphix venom nightwave: December - January 2021

It IS easy, it CAN work and it doesn't have to be devintensive.

This is a way to connect the game. This is the way to make it feel good. The way nightwave is now doesn't feel good.

P.S. My fellow Tenno, if you agree that this concept would work, please comment, so DE notices.

[krc473]

16 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Why is the nightwave not connected to the mainline updates? 

Does it really make sense to do that? It would put pressure on the devs to actually make up a timeline for when future content would be out. This would have to account for how long it would take people to get to rank 30 in NW. Would the result be DE having to delay updates so people could get to rank 30?

 

I don’t think your suggestion is a good idea. Perhaps it is explained badly, but I see no reason at all why DE should tie NW to mainline updates. The current way they are doing it would work fine, if we didn’t get unique stories for each new set. Personally, I haven’t really cared much about the previous NW stories.

[Cerikus]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

Does it really make sense to do that? It would put pressure on the devs to actually make up a timeline for when future content would be out. This would have to account for how long it would take people to get to rank 30 in NW. Would the result be DE having to delay updates so people could get to rank 30?

 

I don’t think your suggestion is a good idea. Perhaps it is explained badly, but I see no reason at all why DE should tie NW to mainline updates. The current way they are doing it would work fine, if we didn’t get unique stories for each new set. Personally, I haven’t really cared much about the previous NW stories.

You are saying it like putting pressure to make somewhat of a timeline would be a bad thing. Honestly they should try to schedule more, but my concept doesn't need it.

Imagine they would drop the "Tempestari nightwave" now. All they need are the nora voicelines and 30 ranks. At this point they can delay the actual update for as long as they need while we do the nightwave. 

There is no need to account for the time to reach R30. It would not go anywhere until the next nightwave. The seasons don't have to be huge, they can be just 30 ranks and we get 10 weeks to do it, which is enough. If they fix the catchup mechanic to work reliably, people can catch up on the last week. I don't understand why that would be a problem.

The reason to tie it to the updates is to make the game connected, which feels good, but mainly it would make the nightwave more frequent, stable and easier to develop. 
It is in fact less devtime, a tiny bit more preplaning, but the outcome would be great.
There are people that want the story as well as the rewards. This would offer both while making it easier for DE to develop it.

[Uhkretor]

Filler side stories are also part of the main story... But I'm guessing someone either missed that memo or willingly chose to ignore it just to poop something online after some time...

[krc473]

3 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

You are saying it like putting pressure to make somewhat of a timeline would be a bad thing. Honestly they should try to schedule more, but my concept doesn't need it.

A schedule is only useful if it is possible to stick to it. It is fairly common for DE to deliver thing later than anticipated. You do have to remember that we have been told a mainline type update would be here and then it get pushed back behind other mainlines. What would have happened to your NW system in that situation? I just cannot see it working out, unless DE can create a schedule and actually stick to it.

• One of your first points was “release a month before the update”. That requires scheduling.

10 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

The reason to tie it to the updates is to make the game connected, which feels good, but mainly it would make the nightwave more frequent, stable and easier to develop. 

Why do we need the game to feel connected. And why would having this achieve that goal? I am not sure how “connected” random lore from Nora would make the NW feel. I usually try to have Nora muted, as she is annoying. Many others seem to have the same idea. I do think it sounds more like a way to just force pointless lore into the game.

[Cerikus]

15 minutes ago, krc473 said:

A schedule is only useful if it is possible to stick to it. It is fairly common for DE to deliver thing later than anticipated. You do have to remember that we have been told a mainline type update would be here and then it get pushed back behind other mainlines. What would have happened to your NW system in that situation? I just cannot see it working out, unless DE can create a schedule and actually stick to it.

• One of your first points was “release a month before the update”. That requires scheduling.

As I said. They can delay and delay as long as they need. If the delay is not 1-3 weeks, but more than a month, they can add 15 ranks of nightwave cred.
I didn't mean a month in a sense of 30 day exactly, obviously. When is the Tempestari update going to release? In a month or so? Well then, they could release the nightwave. Do not tell me they have no idea when it will drop. They don't know the exact day or week, but they now if it's this month or the next one. 

My concept is not strictly scheduled. It is obvious it has enough leeway to work with. Why are you agruing with me as if I said we need exact timetable ? :( 

19 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Why do we need the game to feel connected. And why would having this achieve that goal? I am not sure how “connected” random lore from Nora would make the NW feel. I usually try to have Nora muted, as she is annoying. Many others seem to have the same idea. I do think it sounds more like a way to just force pointless lore into the game.

If you don't need the game to feel connected, then it's fine, but I do and many other people do.
There are games out there, that are able to achive exactly what I am talking about. Connecting seasonal content with big releases and Nightwave could be exactly that, but it isn't.
It is nice that you don't need it, but that is not a good argument against it. I understand you don't listen to Nora and don't care about the story. I do and once the story is gone, the unique rewards are gone and it is just a slog, I turn off the game. 
 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

Flat out stupid idea. How would releases like this work on console then? Answer: they flat out can't. All around stupid idea. Essentially, you just want intermissions all year round, no actual content.

[Rawbeard]

2 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Why is the nightwave not connected to the mainline updates? 

are you for real?

[Cerikus]

22 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Flat out stupid idea. How would releases like this work on console then? Answer: they flat out can't. All around stupid idea. Essentially, you just want intermissions all year round, no actual content.

The nightwave gets released at the same time on all consoles as it is the case already. And the updates are released when they are ready. ?? 
Yes basically. Intermissions with a small story teaser for upcomming updates.

13 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

are you for real?

Yes. Do you guys like the current nightwave better?
Is it better to have a "season" for more than 8 months?
Is it better to have intermissions that last more than 7 months?

[Rawbeard]

3 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Do you guys like the current nightwave better?

considering your "solution" does not address any of the issues you have with the current nightwave, I don't even understand why you dislike it so much. that is why I ask if you are "for real", since if you think you are for real bringing a solution to the table... oof.

[Cerikus]

3 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

considering your "solution" does not address any of the issues you have with the current nightwave, I don't even understand why you dislike it so much. that is why I ask if you are "for real", since if you think you are for real bringing a solution to the table... oof.

Well. I am not sure if I contradicted myself.
My issues are:
- seasons take too long and the rewards end up being an endless stream of creds, which is not interesting
- the story flavor is not there, because the episodes take up like 10% of the nightwave run time

I think that puting some lore from the updates into it and making the seasons short a fast would solve those issues. 
Tbh I am not creating this concept from the top of my head, the suggestion is based on seasonal content from other games, that tbh.. often do it better.

[chaotea]

4 hours ago, Cerikus said:

There is NO reason to give each nightwave a unique story. DE have figured that out already as well. The question that seems obvious to me is: 

Why is the nightwave not connected to the mainline updates? 

So firts, you need to watch devstreams.

DE said that the story elements, while something they wanted to do, was too much of a drain on resourses and so was being delayed and delaying other content. As such they will go back to less ambitious nightwave contenet.

The reason its not connected to mainline content is the same as the above, if the mainline is delayed 2 months, then so would the Nightwave, and vice versa.

All in all its better that they keep the nightwaves seperate. It was always ment as an alternitive to Alerts.

[DrivaMain]

Nightwave are supposed to be "Campfire Stories" they are not meant to be a huge part in the main lore of the game. 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

3 hours ago, Cerikus said:

The nightwave gets released at the same time on all consoles as it is the case already. And the updates are released when they are ready. ?? 
Yes basically. Intermissions with a small story teaser for upcomming updates.

So then DE has to spend more thousands of dollars for another release on consoles? Do you not know how console releases work?

[Cerikus]

4 hours ago, chaotea said:

So firts, you need to watch devstreams.

DE said that the story elements, while something they wanted to do, was too much of a drain on resourses and so was being delayed and delaying other content. As such they will go back to less ambitious nightwave contenet.

The reason its not connected to mainline content is the same as the above, if the mainline is delayed 2 months, then so would the Nightwave, and vice versa.

All in all its better that they keep the nightwaves seperate. It was always ment as an alternitive to Alerts.

I am watching devstream. I have not missed one in like 3 years. That's why I said:

8 hours ago, Cerikus said:

DE have figured that out already as well.

Doesn't mean I cannot propose a way to make it less devintensive, while having a good story flavor.
Btw.. I feel like everyone in here is not understanding what I am saying. It is probably my fault that I am not explaining myself clear enough.

The Nightwave would NOT be connected by releasing it at the same time, but ONLY by having the same theme. As I stated, it could release a whole month or even more before the actual update as a teaser, nothing more. It would never hinder the development and release of the mainline.

[Cerikus]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Nightwave are supposed to be "Campfire Stories" they are not meant to be a huge part in the main lore of the game. 

Yeah, I meant that. I will give you an example:

If there was a nightwave before the release of the Old blood update. Nora could have one single creepypasta campfire story about "imortal grineer hunters, that has been spoted". That would be all. Exactly as you say. Campfire story to tease the update that would be released in a few weeks, whenever it's ready.

[Cerikus]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

So then DE has to spend more thousands of dollars for another release on consoles? Do you not know how console releases work?

Ehm... What? Do YOU know? Because I do. 

Nightwave is already released at the same time across all the consoles. Big updates are not. Which is exactly the same thing that I am proposing :D 
How would it change anything ? 

You don't spend thousands of dollars to release a game on console... 

[(PSN)ZUBY_1101]

NW with event themed rewards would be pretty cool. Event themed Nightwaves in general would be cool. And i also think it lasts too long, im not saying i easily finish every nightwave waaaaayyyy before it ends because i really dont but if it were shorter it would keep it far more interesting and probably stop a lot of players getting bored of the game. 

Just a thought.

[Rawbeard]

6 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Well. I am not sure if I contradicted myself.

on the one had the nightwave was lasting too long... on the other hand you want it connected to mainline updates... do you not know what those are? and how those keep getting delayed all the time? have you not heared of the "soon(TM)"? what the...

also I guess even more nightwave delays for consoles. now that will be fun and profit!

[(XBOX)Rez090]

47 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Ehm... What? Do YOU know? Because I do. 

Nightwave is already released at the same time across all the consoles. Big updates are not. Which is exactly the same thing that I am proposing :D 
How would it change anything ? 

You don't spend thousands of dollars to release a game on console... 

Except the problem you've clearly presented and don't understand is new Nightwave content would have to be released right alongside your "big" updates. Otherwise, we would get nothing new. You've now made it with your suggestion that a new season of NW would have to start every time an update drops. So you've made NW seasons now last even longer.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

9 hours ago, Cerikus said:

You are saying it like putting pressure to make somewhat of a timeline would be a bad thing. Honestly they should try to schedule more, but my concept doesn't need it.

Imagine they would drop the "Tempestari nightwave" now. All they need are the nora voicelines and 30 ranks. At this point they can delay the actual update for as long as they need while we do the nightwave. 

Look at it slightly differently: Imagine DE were PLANNING a "Tempestari Nightwave" to be released now, but were not able to do so for some reason (for any reason: assets not ready, the Nora Night voice artist took a holiday/was busy on another project... - anything. Life happens!). But the update itself is ready on time.

What would you expect DE to do? Delay the mainline update to wait for the Nightwave "trailer"? Release the "Tempestari Nightwave" after the mainline update, when the "campfire story" is no longer relevant? Scrap the work done on the "Tempestari Nightwave" and start working on the next one? None of these are good choices, and the whole issue only appears because of the "coupling" of timelines you are suggesting.

Your suggestion would make the nightwave stories more interesting/relevant, but it would only really work if all the scheduling works perfectly. In reality, it will inevitably lead to more delays - which is something we really don't want.

[Cerikus]

3 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

on the one had the nightwave was lasting too long... on the other hand you want it connected to mainline updates... do you not know what those are? and how those keep getting delayed all the time? have you not heared of the "soon(TM)"? what the...

also I guess even more nightwave delays for consoles. now that will be fun and profit!

Yes I did heard about "soon(TM)" I have been in this community for some time. In my original post I mentions several updates that were NOT mainlines. Btw the huge delays are usually a week or two. Last time I remember a HUGE delay was Sacrifice.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Except the problem you've clearly presented and don't understand is new Nightwave content would have to be released right alongside your "big" updates. Otherwise, we would get nothing new. You've now made it with your suggestion that a new season of NW would have to start every time an update drops. So you've made NW seasons now last even longer.

I have clearly said I don't want nightwave released alongside big updates. I have said they should be released some time before the big update is suppose to drop. So please read again what I have proposed.

[Cerikus]

2 hours ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

Look at it slightly differently: Imagine DE were PLANNING a "Tempestari Nightwave" to be released now, but were not able to do so for some reason (for any reason: assets not ready, the Nora Night voice artist took a holiday/was busy on another project... - anything. Life happens!). But the update itself is ready on time.

What would you expect DE to do? Delay the mainline update to wait for the Nightwave "trailer"? Release the "Tempestari Nightwave" after the mainline update, when the "campfire story" is no longer relevant? Scrap the work done on the "Tempestari Nightwave" and start working on the next one? None of these are good choices, and the whole issue only appears because of the "coupling" of timelines you are suggesting.

Your suggestion would make the nightwave stories more interesting/relevant, but it would only really work if all the scheduling works perfectly. In reality, it will inevitably lead to more delays - which is something we really don't want.

Well if this edge case would happen. (DE don't have nightwave ready, but mainline is releasing tomorrow) I would just release the Nightwave without the Nora voicelines and add them later. Maybe the campfire story would not be relevant, but I am pretty sure that the community would understand at that point.

I personally think that it would benefit DE as a company and Warframe as a game, if they tried to organize themself to be able to schedule, becase we all know that is something they always had problems with and at this point I feel like people act like it's fine, but I never felt like it. It's their right to delay and delay, but the inablity to schedule is not an argument against better systems. 

I understand what you mean tho.

Of course I am a person that would rather wait to get a better and well connected system. I really hate content islands with no possibility to do 2 things at the same time.
But that's just me.

I always knew that there are a lot of talented and passionate people at DE and I also know they would be able to pull anything off if they were focusing on it.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

19 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I would just release the Nightwave without the Nora voicelines and add them later.

Currently, DE's history suggests that unfinished content tends to stay unfinished for quite a long time (just look at the Valis's third Orb - it's still taking a bath in a coolant lake). So I would be very much against any sort of system that puts them in a situation where they are incentivised to release more unfinished content (they do it often enough already!)

25 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

personally think that it would benefit DE as a company and Warframe as a game, if they tried to organize themself to be able to schedule, becase we all know that is something they always had problems with and at this point I feel like people act like it's fine, but I never felt like it. It's their right to delay and delay, but the inablity to schedule is not an argument against better systems. 

I understand what you are saying, but making system more tightly intertwined with each other is simply a bad practice from the point of view of software engineering. Delay do occasionally happen, and the more systems are dependent on each other, the more easily a little delay turns int a large one.

Don't get me wrong: I am very much against content islands and I do agree that DE could do with tying Warframe's systems together a lot more. I just don't think lore delivery is what needs to be merged. The way I see it, side stories do not take away from the main plot line - instead, they enrich the in-game universe.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

I have clearly said I don't want nightwave released alongside big updates. I have said they should be released some time before the big update is suppose to drop. So please read again what I have proposed.

Then you don't understand how console certification works. Your idea is very stupid because DE is not gonna spend thousands of dollars to get a NW update thru when they can bundle it with another update. See now how this is a dumb idea.