Khora needs double energy

[Berzerkules]

Since the addition of LoS to Khora's Whipclaw I've been having an energy problem on her. Her Whipclaw just misses half the time and I waste energy on an ability that just fails to connect. 

If you aren't going to fix LoS check on her could you please give her double energy so I can at least afford to spam the ability until it does connect.

Thx. 

[chaotea]

Its not going to happen, as DE never really intended Khora players to spam Whipclaw. Hence the LoS Nerf.

They wont give a buff to something they deliberatly nerfed.

However, you can mitigate it somewhat by adding health and rage mods.

[Berzerkules]

1 minute ago, chaotea said:

Its not going to happen, as DE never really intended Khora players to spam Whipclaw. Hence the LoS Nerf.

They wont give a buff to something they deliberatly nerfed.

However, you can mitigate it somewhat by adding health and rage mods.

Health mods ewww gross. 

I could run Dispenser, Synth set mods and Equilibrium to help with energy. Or I could run Spetrosiphon and cast on ensnared enemies for endless orbs.

I don't want to try and fix Khora's energy problems with helminth abilities though. I just want another DE brand band-aid slapped on her. 

Just give her 2x energy and call it a day.

Or, you know, maybe just revert her changes.

If they are dead set on leaving her how she is it would be nice if they could fix the totally scuffed LoS check that they like to throw on so many AoE abilities and weapons. You know, so it actually works. 

 

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, Berzerkules said:

If you aren't going to fix LoS check on her

On 2021-01-27 at 10:01 PM, [DE]Ruu said:

Khora enthusiasts!

As you know, we made a change to Khora’s Whipclaw in Update 29.5: Deimos Arcana that added a Line of Sight (LoS) check to its radial damage (AoE).

Since then failure to damage enemies within LoS has been reported, which we cover below in this brief overview of what changed, what we know, and next steps.

 

What was changed and why:

We made a change to Khora’s Whipclaw that added a minimal Line of Sight (LoS) check on its radial damage (AoE). Meaning enemies within line of sight of the explosion are damaged/affected, while those outside of it are not. The change was made to encourage a more active play style with Whipclaw. Moving away from whipping at walls to damage enemies on the other side with more incentive to 'seek and snipe.'

 

What is the issue with the change:

As has been reported (and is explained in the next section), certain conditions have made it difficult (if not impossible) to land AoE damage with enemies in LoS. In other words, enemies that don’t appear to be out of LoS of Whiclaw’s attack take no damage. Which no doubt has caused some frustration while using the ability.

 

What we know has been reported and confirmed about the change:

Thanks to your thorough reporting and investigation skills (thank you!), we were able to deduce and confirm through internal testing that certain environment elements seem to completely block Whipclaw’s AoE damage. Specifically:

• Small objects blocking line of sight (railings, small rocks, trees)
• Geometry (Floor/Wall detailed geometry and complex stair/slope)
• Slopes/vertical terrain variations (For example: Casting Whipclaw at the base of stairs to damage enemies at the top of stairs)

 

What’s next:

We are reviewing our options to address the obvious gaps listed above. We’ve also noticed that in addition to Whipclaw, Bonewidow’s Ironbridge charge attack projectile and Primary Tombfinger Kitguns are equally affected. They are also being looked at.

We’ll update this thread once we have a solution and possible fixes. Thanks for reading!

On 2021-01-28 at 2:06 AM, Berzerkules said:

Thx for looking into Khora.

 

[Loza03]

The Purpose of energy is to meter the use of abilities, especially the very powerful ones. Including Whipclaw, which remember, deals millions, if not billions of damage with the right weapons. Frankly speaking, if there should be general energy fixes, it shouldn't be to make energy more accessible - it should be quite the opposite. Making it more restrictive, but accessed through gameplay, not RNG or near-unlimited access to supplement doodads.

[Berzerkules]

@XaeroI know. I remember replying to that quote. I was just trying to play Khora today and so I'm feeling a little salty and I'm a smart ass. It's another Soon™

Just now, Loza03 said:

The Purpose of energy is to meter the use of abilities, especially the very powerful ones. Including Whipclaw, which remember, deals millions, if not billions of damage with the right weapons. Frankly speaking, if there should be general energy fixes, it shouldn't be to make energy more accessible - it should be quite the opposite. Making it more restrictive, but accessed through gameplay, not RNG or near-unlimited access to supplement doodads.

 I'm not serious. Of course Khora doesn't need more energy. She needs the broke LoS check fixed. It's just frustration to play her now. I played one of my favorite frames a handful of times since she has been "balanced" and every time it ends in me just logging off.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Why not instead give her the same scaling efficiency Atlas’s 1 has?

[chaotea]

2 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Just give her 2x energy and call it a day.

Or, you know, maybe just revert her changes.

 

Have you tried not relying on it?

They wont give her more energy or revert, it was an intentional nerf. That said Khora prime will no doubt have a small increase in energy.

Though if you want energy through helmith, try spectrorage and its augment.

[Berzerkules]

40 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Have you tried not relying on it?

They wont give her more energy or revert, it was an intentional nerf. That said Khora prime will no doubt have a small increase in energy.

Though if you want energy through helmith, try spectrorage and its augment.

Try not relying on what? 

A low energy pool is not the source problem, LoS check fails are. Repeatedly swinging and missing due to LoS check fails causes an energy problem. 

DE is looking into LoS check fails though. They have plans to change Khora again.  Who knows what the next round of changes to whipclaw will be or when they will happen though. 

Spoiler

On 2021-01-27 at 9:01 AM, [DE]Ruu said:

Khora enthusiasts!

As you know, we made a change to Khora’s Whipclaw in Update 29.5: Deimos Arcana that added a Line of Sight (LoS) check to its radial damage (AoE).

Since then failure to damage enemies within LoS has been reported, which we cover below in this brief overview of what changed, what we know, and next steps.

 

What was changed and why:

We made a change to Khora’s Whipclaw that added a minimal Line of Sight (LoS) check on its radial damage (AoE). Meaning enemies within line of sight of the explosion are damaged/affected, while those outside of it are not. The change was made to encourage a more active play style with Whipclaw. Moving away from whipping at walls to damage enemies on the other side with more incentive to 'seek and snipe.'

 

What is the issue with the change:

As has been reported (and is explained in the next section), certain conditions have made it difficult (if not impossible) to land AoE damage with enemies in LoS. In other words, enemies that don’t appear to be out of LoS of Whiclaw’s attack take no damage. Which no doubt has caused some frustration while using the ability.

 

What we know has been reported and confirmed about the change:

Thanks to your thorough reporting and investigation skills (thank you!), we were able to deduce and confirm through internal testing that certain environment elements seem to completely block Whipclaw’s AoE damage. Specifically:

• Small objects blocking line of sight (railings, small rocks, trees)
• Geometry (Floor/Wall detailed geometry and complex stair/slope)
• Slopes/vertical terrain variations (For example: Casting Whipclaw at the base of stairs to damage enemies at the top of stairs)

 

What’s next:

We are reviewing our options to address the obvious gaps listed above. We’ve also noticed that in addition to Whipclaw, Bonewidow’s Ironbridge charge attack projectile and Primary Tombfinger Kitguns are equally affected. They are also being looked at.

We’ll update this thread once we have a solution and possible fixes. Thanks for reading!

 

I know all about Spetrosiphon. I mentioned it in the quote you clipped. I already have it subsumed on one of my Khora.

Sorry. I'm just getting frustrated. It's been 3 months of logging off every time I try and play Khora. I miss it. 

 

[chaotea]

32 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Try not relying on what? 

A low energy pool is not the source problem, LoS check fails are. Repeatedly swinging and missing due to LoS check fails causes an energy problem.

 

Which would be fine if this topic was titled 'Fix LoS'. But its not, its asking for more energy, when you dont even think its the problem.

33 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

DE is looking into LoS check fails though. They have plans to change Khora again.  Who knows what the next round of changes to whipclaw will be or when they will happen though. 

Then creating a topic asking for more energy is redundant. If theyre looking into it, theyre not going to make a change that they would then have to reverse (making people mad again) when they fix LoS.

35 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I know all about Spetrosiphon. I mentioned it in the quote you clipped. I already have it subsumed on one of my Khora.

Fair, sorry. I missread that one. Or more accuratly i missremembered the name, then corrected myself but didnt put two and two together :D

36 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Sorry. I'm just getting frustrated. It's been 3 months of logging off every time I try and play Khora. I miss it.

I mean its probably worth just not playing her till its fixed then. Theres so many other OP frames atm. Xakus worth a look at if youve not checked it out (and it certainly makes energy management look easy on any other frame).

[Berzerkules]

14 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Which would be fine if this topic was titled 'Fix LoS'. But its not, its asking for more energy, when you dont even think its the problem.

Then creating a topic asking for more energy is redundant. If theyre looking into it, theyre not going to make a change that they would then have to reverse (making people mad again) when they fix LoS.

Fair, sorry. I missread that one. Or more accuratly i missremembered the name, then corrected myself but didnt put two and two together :D

I mean its probably worth just not playing her till its fixed then. Theres so many other OP frames atm. Xakus worth a look at if youve not checked it out (and it certainly makes energy management look easy on any other frame).

I'm just being a smart ass. I'm bored. Tried to play khora yet again and thought "this wouldn't be half bad if I had at least 2x the energy." It just fails so damn often. It's broke as hell. It took 2 months for DE to acknowledge that their LoS is broke and it's been a month since that. 

I play all frames. I love Xaku, they are way up on the list on my favorite frames. Sometimes I just want to play Khora though. It's been so long and I miss my girl. 

Edit: I lied, I play all frames except Inaros and Grendel. 

[Leqesai]

8 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Since the addition of LoS to Khora's Whipclaw I've been having an energy problem on her. Her Whipclaw just misses half the time and I waste energy on an ability that just fails to connect. 

If you aren't going to fix LoS check on her could you please give her double energy so I can at least afford to spam the ability until it does connect.

Thx. 

This is a YOU issue. It is not a Khora issue. Learn to manage your energy better. I hate to be a "git'gud" kind of person but honestly this is not a problem Khora has. It is pretty simple to manage energy on 99% of the warframes and Khora certainly doesn't fit the 1% that have energy issues.

[Berzerkules]

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

This is a YOU issue. It is not a Khora issue. Learn to manage your energy better. I hate to be a "git'gud" kind of person but honestly this is not a problem Khora has. It is pretty simple to manage energy on 99% of the warframes and Khora certainly doesn't fit the 1% that have energy issues.

I'm not serious. Khora does not need 2x energy. She needs the totally broken LoS check removed. 

If you hit enemies half the time because Los is scuffed 2x the energy should fix that problem right. /s

[nslay]

Oh, it's Berzerkules... I knew there was something more to this post!

EDIT: P.S. Built my way, spamming failed Whipclaw amidst using Strangledome does not exhaust energy in unmanageable ways... even with Naramon.

[Berzerkules]

12 minutes ago, nslay said:

Oh, it's Berzerkules... I knew there was something more to this post!

EDIT: P.S. Built my way, spamming failed Whipclaw amidst using Strangledome does not exhaust energy in unmanageable ways... even with Naramon.

I was having a moment and everyone wanted to be serious. 

I was trying to play her fast and aggressive like I normally do but kept whiffing. I only drop dome in choke points so I can come back and clear them later. Meanwhile I'm running around like a spaz taking out stragglers with whip mid bullet jump. Close to 800 hours on Khora and I've got a refined technique on how to go full ham Khora, I know when I "should" hit, I'm just not. It's driving me crazy. 

They changed her to encourage more active play but the more actively I play the more I miss. I can still find a comfy cozy safe place and camp no problem. Crawl in a  little hole in the wall with a greedy pull Khora and just sit for hours but damn that's boring. 

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I was having a moment and everyone wanted to be serious. 

I was trying to play her fast and aggressive like I normally do but kept whiffing. I only drop dome in choke points so I can come back and clear them later. Meanwhile I'm running around like a spaz taking out stragglers with whip mid bullet jump. Close to 800 hours on Khora and I've got a refined technique on how to go full ham Khora, I know when I "should" hit, I'm just not. It's driving me crazy. 

They changed her to encourage more active play but the more actively I play the more I miss. I can still find a comfy cozy safe place and camp no problem. Crawl in a  little hole in the wall with a greedy pull Khora and just sit for hours but damn that's boring. 

Yeah, it's definitely more noticeable on some tiles... like Kuva Fortress (like last week's 30 minute Kuva Survival challenge).

[Berzerkules]

Just now, nslay said:

Yeah, it's definitely more noticeable on some tiles... like Kuva Fortress (like last week's 30 minute Kuva Survival challenge).

That's where most of my time on Khora was spent. Kuva fortress will never be the same.