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February 2021 Riven Disposition Updates


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4 hours ago, Orakan said:

STOP NERFING THE GRAM PRIME'S and KRONEN PRIME'S DISPOSITIONS for God's sake.

I mean if more people are using it it makes sense to nerf it to compensate. The prices of kronen and gram rivens have gone through the roof because of how popular they are, as well as Rubico, Vectis and co, which I'm surprised they've not touched. 

Honestly if anything I wish they'd make improvements to nikana prime due to how hard it is to get with it being vaulted for so long, and keep the other variants as they are as they're stupid easy to obtain.  

Course DE seems to be aiming for a "middle ground" which isn't going to happen with rivens, people are just going to cling onto the thing that deals the most DPS until it gets nerfed into the ground, wait until something gets buffed and repeat.

 

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4 hours ago, (PSN)c1234567890alvi said:

Honestly? The weapons that were nerfed were predictable. Kronen, Gram, Glaive...

Everyone went nuts over these.

Nice to see they actually buffed a lot while nerfing only those that were absolutely necessary.

Though Viper, Flux Rifle etc. will need more than a 1.55 Groll Riven to be good. Those would be bad with a 3.00 Riven 😂

Honestly i think they should buff rivens overall. Its just too much work for too little return on low dispo rivens. And they are not strong enough to compensate for weaker weapons. Imo rivens should start at 2 dots and go up to 6dots

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31 minutes ago, DarknessNightshade said:

I mean if more people are using it it makes sense to nerf it to compensate. The prices of kronen and gram rivens have gone through the roof because of how popular they are, as well as Rubico, Vectis and co, which I'm surprised they've not touched. 

But it generally doesn't. Usage is such a bad metric of power. People generally use what is promoted through social media and what offers a very lazy playstyle. If people went for strictly the top of the line for each weapon category, many weapons which are currently at high Disposition would be at 0.50.

Addressing the root of the problem for the popularity of some weapons is vastly more important than killing a Disposition.

Edited by Voltage
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Lol still keeping up with ALL New weapons(lol primes too?) and variations Starting at a useless 0.5 dispo? 

Fine then.  I'll never buy another prime access weapon or weapon from the market ever again until the starting 0.5 diso is reversed.

Nothing says don't buy me more than all new prime variations getting a massively significant riven nerf while the weapon stat increases by about 1%. 

You must think we are stupid if we are going to switch over from a weapon that had barely less base stats but a significantly higher dispo.

Neutral dispo for new weapons was perfectly acceptable. All this  just because you don't want to play test new weapons before they come out (Bramma drama).

Also, separating variations like Primes from non with different Riven dispositions was a very bad move. 

The whole point of a new variation was to get something slightly better to push a build to a higher limit.  all you've done is make "upgrades" into downgrades.
Youve taken away all excitement for new primes and new weapons.  I'm not some Mr 3 and for anyone who plays the game a lot they're going to min Max their favorite gear and often new gear to see what it can do.  you've taken all of that excitement away. Why would anyone be excited for Pandero prime?  yeah it'll have a 1% stat difference but it'll have a massively lower disposition than regular Pandero.  literally zero reason to be excited for its prime if you intend on min maxing it to get the most of it which is a whole hell of a lot less than what regular Pandero can achieve. 

 Do you NOT want players to Max new weapons and primes? Do you not want us to look forward to new weapons? 

 

I'm not even salty about your current Riven changes. 

I waited years for Octavia prime and her weapons and knowing they'll be significantly worse the day it hits compared to the old regular versions that have been around for years is sad.

Yada yada  though, doubt you care about what I say here.  actions speak louder than words and me and a bunch of others will be speaking with our wallets.

I'd also like to point out that you don't even advertise with prime access that new prime weapons get crippled out of the gate compared to year + old variations. By doing so,you enable people in trade chat to take advantage of players who don't know about the 0.5 for all new and variations of weapons. Not everyone reads every one of these disposition change threads and to expect the entire playbase to immediately know that when they join warframe isn't cool.
This is taking advantage of players and those taking advantage of it in trade chat are an example of that. 

I ask that a weapon retains disposition across all variations. It'd only make sense. A prime should be a upgrade,not a downgrade. 

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6 hours ago, Orakan said:

STOP NERFING THE GRAM PRIME'S and KRONEN PRIME'S DISPOSITIONS for God's sake.

Nah, we will still use them Riven's don't matter anymore for a long time. Only for Like vectis prime and stat sticks it actually matters.

6 hours ago, Captain_Rocket505 said:

Omg DE didn't nerf anything super important this time lol. That's a firstTo be fully honest, this is a good thing. I feel like dispos should just stay where they are/increased if needed UNLESS the weapon is stupidly OP *cough* kuva nukor *cough*. 

Kuva Nukor is just too good at proccing status on multiple mobs. They can nerf the damage though in my opinion cus even with 0 damage mods on it, it shreds.

4 hours ago, --RV--arm4geddon-117 said:

Who are we kidding ? You can toy around riven dispositions as long as you want but melee will never be in a healthy spot as long as Bloodrush, Weeping Wounds, and Condition Overload exist, kek.Tube is full of level cap SP showcases sporting rivened and non rivened melee's, meta and non meta alike. Just shower a 9999 Demo with as many diff procs as you can and gg.

Blood Rush, Weapon Wounds and Condition Overload is the reason we play the game still. If more so Primary and Secondary weapons need something similar. Nobody cares about 9999 mobs my dude, if you wanna spend 23hours alt tabbed with the game on pause solo mode to prove a point let them be. Regardless only a certain amount of frames could make it work without a melee weapon. That's just how scaling work's right now. Unless they power up rifles I don't see people changing from melee because it's the only viable thing. It's not that we have a choice in the matter to begin with, that is the sad part.

4 hours ago, (PSN)Rakshasa-9 said:

About time the meta gets shaken up. 

Where? When? We will still use kronen prime and gram prime. How would dispo affect the meta in the slightest?

 

40 minutes ago, wizardeiges said:

I ask that a weapon retains disposition across all variations. It'd only make sense. A prime should be a upgrade,not a downgrade. 

Sad but very true.

Edited by MrSigy
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4 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

You showed us that Acrid has been the 4th least used secondary of 2020, how comes it has never gotten any disposition buff ever since the introduction of dispositions? How does that work?

April 2019 Riven disposition update:

Quote

This is our first time determining disposition changes with the help of an internal ranking, to help guide dispositions closer to where we feel they should be, and to offer a solid baseline that is less subject to fluctuating player usage stats. 

That means that peak performance ceilings exist. Some weapons will never be buffed even if they are never used.

Edited by Jarriaga
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3 hours ago, TheLordOmega2 said:

I don't like glaives but i really feel bad for the people who do, involved time/formas/plat into their rivened Glaive Prime build only to get stabbed like this.

 

 

To be honest, the glaive is so good, it doesn't need a riven. I don't have a riven, and I can kill steel path enemies just fine. 

I mean they might have put an extra forma into it. Not that big a deal. 

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21 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

April 2019 Riven disposition update:

That means that peak performance ceilings exist. Some weapons will never be buffed even if they are never used.

Acrid never being used because of it having low base damage, almost non-existant crit and status. Can't get any weaker than that. "Peak performance ceiling" with 1.33 dispo on acrid? My question remains.

How does that work?

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1 hour ago, wizardeiges said:

Lol still keeping up with ALL New weapons(lol primes too?) and variations Starting at a useless 0.5 dispo? 

Fine then.  I'll never buy another prime access weapon or weapon from the market ever again until the starting 0.5 diso is reversed.

Nothing says don't buy me more than all new prime variations getting a massively significant riven nerf while the weapon stat increases by about 1%. 

You must think we are stupid if we are going to switch over from a weapon that had barely less base stats but a significantly higher dispo.

Neutral dispo for new weapons was perfectly acceptable. All this  just because you don't want to play test new weapons before they come out (Bramma drama).

Also, separating variations like Primes from non with different Riven dispositions was a very bad move. 

The whole point of a new variation was to get something slightly better to push a build to a higher limit.  all you've done is make "upgrades" into downgrades.
Youve taken away all excitement for new primes and new weapons.  I'm not some Mr 3 and for anyone who plays the game a lot they're going to min Max their favorite gear and often new gear to see what it can do.  you've taken all of that excitement away. Why would anyone be excited for Pandero prime?  yeah it'll have a 1% stat difference but it'll have a massively lower disposition than regular Pandero.  literally zero reason to be excited for its prime if you intend on min maxing it to get the most of it which is a whole hell of a lot less than what regular Pandero can achieve. 

 Do you NOT want players to Max new weapons and primes? Do you not want us to look forward to new weapons? 

 

I'm not even salty about your current Riven changes. 

I waited years for Octavia prime and her weapons and knowing they'll be significantly worse the day it hits compared to the old regular versions that have been around for years is sad.

Yada yada  though, doubt you care about what I say here.  actions speak louder than words and me and a bunch of others will be speaking with our wallets.

I'd also like to point out that you don't even advertise with prime access that new prime weapons get crippled out of the gate compared to year + old variations. By doing so,you enable people in trade chat to take advantage of players who don't know about the 0.5 for all new and variations of weapons. Not everyone reads every one of these disposition change threads and to expect the entire playbase to immediately know that when they join warframe isn't cool.
This is taking advantage of players and those taking advantage of it in trade chat are an example of that. 

I ask that a weapon retains disposition across all variations. It'd only make sense. A prime should be a upgrade,not a downgrade. 

There's the salt I needed for popcorn. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, wizardeiges said:

I ask that a weapon retains disposition across all variations. It'd only make sense. A prime should be a upgrade,not a downgrade. 

I outlined this problem with Aksomati, saw 600+ upvotes (I say this because I have been on the Forums a long time and that is my most upvoted post to my knowledge), and still DE doubles down on this stuff. It's really a shame. I barely use Aksomati Prime because it just feels like the base version when Rivens get involved. I have a perfect Pandero Riven but if I am to use it, it won't be on the Prime. The same goes for Guandao or other upgraded weapons I have Rivens for that got this treatment.

Edited by Voltage
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4 minutes ago, dorukayhan said:

There's the salt I needed for popcorn. Thanks!

Yea, let's point fingers at the players who are having their investment thrown in the garbage every 90 days religiously with absolutely no response on the matter from DE.

Riven Mods heavily drive the value of Platinum and the trading economy in general; it's a fact. Riven Mods are also the greatest investment in your arsenal with no exception. Getting Arcane Energize to rank 5 or getting Mastery Rank 30 pales in comparison to the investment required to really get a good collection of Riven Mods. DE needs to recognize that this problem can't be ignored, and a healthier system needs to be put in place that rewards players for their investment, not nerfs future weapons being added to the arsenal.

Edited by Voltage
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32 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Acrid never being used because of it having low base damage, almost non-existant crit and status. Can't get any weaker than that. "Peak performance ceiling" with 1.33 dispo on acrid? My question remains.

How does that work?

I don't think you understand what a "ceiling" is in this context.

DE have decided that the performance of some weapons will never pass a certain threshold even if that threshold is very low. A low ceiling is still a ceiling.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Just now, Jarriaga said:

I don't think you understand what a "ceiling" is in this context.

DE have decided that the performance of some weapons will never pass a certain threshold even if that threshld is very low. A low ceiling is still a ceiling.

That doesn't explain anything. Acrid doesn't deserve such a low dispo. It makes no sense whatsoever. It's one of if not the weakest secondary right next to the stug which by the way has a much higher dispo too.

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7 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

That doesn't explain anything. Acrid doesn't deserve such a low dispo. It makes no sense whatsoever. It's one of if not the weakest secondary right next to the stug which by the way has a much higher dispo too.

Yes it does. You just don't like the explanation, thus it is invalid to you. Take it or leave it, the explanation is that the weapon's performance has peaked as per DE's internal ranking, so it won't go any higher even if said peak/ceiling is too low unless they themselves reconsider what the ceiling or peak should be. Read Connor's statement again. Their ranking reigns over popularity.

Edited by Jarriaga
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8 hours ago, Infirito said:

Okay, do people actually use Euphona prime this much or did DE just forget about it?

As a tenno whomst most used Gun(Primary or Secondary) is the O.G. Spectra check the 2020 usage list:

https://www.warframe.com/2020stats

 

Just outside top 20 Secondaries in usage at 21 for 2020 as a whole.

 

Edited by (PSN)MrNishi
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12 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Greetings Tenno!

Our first Prime Access of 2021 has danced its way onto all platforms, meaning more Riven adjustments along with it.

This time, we’ve reached an exciting milestone - not a single Primary, Secondary or Arch-gun has received any sort of disposition reduction! Two quick footnotes on what this means for the present and future of Riven dispositions:

  • Melee Rivens still have a way to go since their changes started later, but we hope to reach a similarly healthy spot sometime this year.
  • This does NOT mean that we will never reduce another gun ever again (in the same way that a disposition going untouched doesn’t mean it will never increase in the future). Warframe boasts not only a wealth of old content, but also a history of major mechanical revisions that can drastically affect which weapons are popular. This set of changes has a perfect example: since our Glaive rework late last year, Glaive Prime in particular has seen a huge influx of usage, resulting in the first ever disposition change for that weapon.

Without further ado, here are the changes - thanks for reading!

PRIMARY

  Reveal hidden contents

Basmu: 1.1->1.15

Bubonico: 0.5->0.6

Catchmoon: 0.9->1

Cedo: 0.5->0.55

Dread: 1.25->1.3

Fulmin: 0.6->0.65

Kuva Hind: 1->1.05

Lanka: 0.9->0.95

Panthera Prime: 0.85->1.05

Quellor: 1->1.05

Rattleguts: 0.8->0.9

Sporelacer: 0.5->0.85

Sporothrix: 0.5->0.85

Supra: 1->1.05
Supra Vandal: 0.9->0.95

Sancti Tigris: 0.9->0.95
Tigris Prime: 0.8->0.85

Trumna: 0.55->0.7

Vermisplicer: 0.5->0.7


SECONDARY

  Reveal hidden contents

Akjagara: 1->1.05
Akjagara Prime: 0.85->0.9

Akstilletto: 0.9->0.95
Akstilletto Prime: 0.6->0.65

Catabolyst: 0.5->0.8

Hystrix: 1.15->1.2

Pox: 1.15->1.2

Pyrana: 0.9->0.95

Quatz: 1.15->1.2

Sepulcrum: 0.75->0.85

Sporelacer: 0.5->0.55

Staticor: 0.6->0.65

Velox: 1->1.1

Vermisplicer: 0.5->0.85

Zakti Prime: 0.5->0.75

Zymos: 0.75->0.95


MELEE

  Reveal hidden contents

Arum Spinosa: 0.5->0.85

Atterax: 0.95->1

Broken War: 1.1->1.15

Cassowar: 1.3->1.35

Galatine: 0.95->1.05
Galatine Prime: 0.7->0.75

Glaive Prime: 1.22->1.05

Gram Prime: 0.9->0.8

Guandao Prime: 0.5->0.6

Gunsen: 1.3->1.35

Synoid Heliocor: 1.25->1.3

Hirudo: 1.05->1.1

Jat Kittag: 1.25->1.3

Karyst Prime: 0.75->1.05

Keratinos: 0.7->0.9

Kronen Prime: 0.85->0.7

Ceti Lacera: 1.1->1.15

Lecta: 1.15->1.2
Secura Lecta: 1->1.05

Mewan: 1.05->1.1

Mios: 1.2->1.25

Orthos: 0.95->1
Orthos Prime: 0.6->0.65

Pulmonars: 0.5->0.85

Quassus: 0.75->0.95

Rabvee: 1.25->1.3

Reaper Prime: 0.85->0.75

Redeemer: 1.1->1.05
Redeemer Prime: 0.65->0.6

Sheev: 1.3->1.35

Sydon: 1.25->1.3
Vaykor Sydon: 1.2->1.25

Venka: 1->1.05

Vitrica: 0.5->0.7

War: 0.95->1

Zenistar: 1.05->1.1


ARCHGUN

  Reveal hidden contents

Cortege: 0.7->0.85

Prisma Dual Decurion: 0.5->0.85

Imperator: 1->1.05

Morgha: 0.5->0.7

 

So I mean...is DE going to make a statement about the apparent change in what riven dispo is based on? We have useage stats. We know now that Broken War is one of the most used melee weapons in the game. And yet here we are with it getting a buff while many other weapons that get less use did not get a bump. If you've changed what the basis of riven dispo is can you comment on what it's actually based on now?

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21 minutes ago, (PSN)MrNishi said:

Just outside top 20 Secondaries in usage at 21 for 2020 as a whole.

Thanks.

At least I don't have to worry about my Synapse for the time being. ^_^

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9 hours ago, PrinceMeliodas said:

perfect, my nikanas didnt get touched this time. Melee is still so much more prominent is because they can deal with a wide array of the enemies in this game while guns cannot unless they are AOE weapons or you strip the armor enough for guns to not slow down and rivens are currently a bandaid for that. I really hate using only melee and a primer weapon like the kuva nukor or cedo. We really need Condition overload for primary weapons thats not just half of the normal like we have on cedo. 

The game is not balanced around lv400 endurance runs, primaries and secondaries are perfectly viable in 99% of the game, including every single mission below an hour or two survival scaling.

If you want to play content wildly outside what the game is designed around, dont expect it to be balanced..

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Here is the simple explanation for riven dispositions.

  • The majority of the playerbase uses weapons without rivens.
  • The majority of the playerbase uses weapons based on weapon tier-list
  • Even if a player has a strong riven for a particular weapon, he will stick to the meta-weapons because he will not bother to spend time to test the performance differences between a meta-weapon without riven against a non-meta-weapon with riven

Thus no matter how much you nerf the disposition of the top tier weapons, the usage will continue to remain high.

The only time the usage of current meta-weapons will have a noticeable drop, is when a new BIS meta-weapon is released and widely accessible, not because their riven dispositions changed.

 

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10 часов назад, AdiT999 сказал:

Cant you just BALANCE the crap weapons and nerf stupid OP ones?????

Then the entire riven system would lose reason to exist.

Which in turns means that every single weapon would have to be aproximatly the same power wise, which means a braton you get as MR0 will hit about as hard as some MR15... I don't know, kuva karak or something?

The entire system was birthed out of the fact that some weapons are either unpopular by default (be it power or inconvinience of operating) or get left behind as players progress through the game and their MR3 weapon no longer cuts it and gets replaced by some MR10 primed beast.
Rivens were specifically designed to at least try to breathe life into those overlooked or abandoned weapons.

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