Revenant: Remove Danse Macabre

[Pizzarugi]

Revenant is an amazing tank frame, and as someone who loves having minions, I also appreciate the ability to create thralls. He is one of the best tanks in the game and if you build him for power strength, has an infinitely-scaling damage ability that can let him tackle up to Steel Path and beyond. However, most of the time I see fellow Revenant players. they only use him for one thing which I consider to be a detriment to the game as a whole: Press-4-to-win. As nice as his other 3 abilities are, Danse Macabre just needs one button press and then you can just dance your way from start to extraction. Great potential, ignored for the sake of cheese.

So I propose a solution: Remove and replace Danse Macabre. My idea for a replacement is "Aspect". His 4 is now replaced by three different abilities that you can swap by tapping the button, with active casts by holding it down. The aspects are focused around the three Eidolon: Teralyst, Gantulyst, and Hydrolyst. Each aspect changes both Revenant's passive and how casting the ability functions.

Aspect 1: Teralyst
- Passive: Current passive for Revenant.

- Active: Revenant raises his ghostly fist above his head before slamming it into the ground, creating quakes that deal impact damage and stagger enemies. The quakes persist for a duration and constantly deal damage to enemies in the area as well as stagger. Thralls struck by the quakes don't get staggered and creates smaller quake areas around them for a shorter duration. Thralls can only create one small quake field each.

Aspect 2: Gantulyst
- Passive: Killing enemies with 4 creates a small proximity shield around Revenant that prevents enemies from shooting through it, duration is extremely short and increases by however many are killed with the ability.

- Active: Revenant stomps the ground, creating a single massive shockwave that knocks enemies back. Enemies hit leave behind a glowing spot that erupts into a beam of light, dealing adaptive damage to anyone who touches it. Thralls hit by this shockwave are knocked back further and create enhanced energy beams that deal a percent of their life per tick to anyone who touches them.

Aspect 3: Hydrolyst
- Passive: While Mesmer Skin is active, Revenant has a constant thunderstorm looming over him, causing lightning bolts to strike nearby enemies every minute. Damage scales by how many Mesmer Skin charges remain.

- Active: Revenant raises his ghostly fist above his head and then slams it into the ground. Ghostly water bubbles emerge around him, based on how many thralls are currently under his control with a minimum of 3. Enemies will be attracted to the bubbles, prioritizing attacking them. Instead of the bubbles shrinking with damage, they grow faster as it absorbs kinetic energy. They have no growth limit, but will not burst unless Revenant uses Reave on them. Bubble burst damage is based on damage absorbed with a multiplier based on power strength. Burst range is short, but gets bigger the more it grows. If a bubble isn't burst before the duration expires, they will harmlessly dissipate. Thralls will not be attracted to the bubbles.

This ability cannot be recast while effect is active.

The idea behind this was to make his 4 adaptive, allowing the player to choose what aspect they wish to use depending on the situation at hand. Teralyst is all about CC for missions where enemies are best left locked down, Gantulyst is about damage via area denial, and Hydrolyst takes a little of both. I also wanted to try encouraging more synergy with his other abilities by enhancing them with thralls or using Reave.

[Leqesai]

You leave Britney Revenant alone!

[Pizzarugi]

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

You leave Britney Revenant alone!

Jokes on you, I love Revenant.

I just hate how people reduce him to a press-4-to-win frame.

[Leqesai]

Just now, Pizzarugi said:

Jokes on you, I love Revenant.

I just hate how people reduce him to a press-4-to-win frame.

But his laser show is beautiful!

[DrivaMain]

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Helminth

Want to remove Danse? You can.

[Leqesai]

3 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Jokes on you, I love Revenant.

I just hate how people reduce him to a press-4-to-win frame.

Also, I agree that it is annoying seeing people not utilize other build options with Revenant (his 1+2+3 build is far superior to his spin to win builds anyway).

 

[Pizzarugi]

3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

But his laser show is beautiful!

  My suggestion would give him a bigger, more glorious laser show.

29 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Aspect 2: Gantulyst
- Passive: Killing enemies with 4 creates a small proximity shield around Revenant that prevents enemies from shooting through it, duration is extremely short and increases by however many are killed with the ability.

- Active: Revenant stomps the ground, creating a single massive shockwave that knocks enemies back. Enemies hit leave behind a glowing spot that erupts into a beam of light, dealing adaptive damage to anyone who touches it. Thralls hit by this shockwave are knocked back further and create enhanced energy beams that deal a percent of their life per tick to anyone who touches them.

 

[YikersDikers]

4 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Helminth

Want to remove Danse? You can.

You can't just use the Helminth system as a way to avoid the problems that Revenant has. I love the frame but his kit as a whole isn't what you would expect from an Eidolon frame. I mean the guys name was Vlad when he was in development to be a vampire frame. 

If DE actually gave him the ability to be a proper Eidolon in anyway, that would be great, because what we have now is a ballerina that can create an 'army' of 7. His tanking ability is nice, but aside from visuals, nothing really screams Eidolon. When you look at the Eidolons, they don't turn people into their slaves (vampires do though). They don't turn into a wall of mist and dash away (vampires turn into clouds of bats) and his 4 is just spin to win. Yes, his 4 is like the Gauntalyst's laser, but that guy spawns an orb in the sky to rain down the laser, not become a deadly disco ball. 

If DE were to turn Revenant into the frame poisoned by the Eidolon's, this would be a kick ass way of doing so. I'm not the guy to go MuH mEta, I just want the true fantasy of being an Eidolon to be my own power to hold. 

The closest we get to Eidolon feel, is that we can drink the corrupted night water on PoE, and even then, that time is past my bed time so I am never there. 

And another thing, Revenant was said to have some connection to the Ropalolyst, which we never see. If DE were to make Revenant a true Eidolon, they would need to change all but his 2. His kit as a whole would need to have more interactions with the Eidolons, his enthrall is wrongly themed as Eidolons summon armies of at least 15, not create 7 simps. His 3 is useless without his 1, and his 4 contradicts his 2. 

@Pizzarugi This is probably my favourite concept for a new Revenant 4 that doesn't involve giving him and exalted weapon. It finally synergises with his 2 and allows the user to actually wield the power of an Eidolon instead of an '80s disco. 

The only I would add to Revenant, is make him look more like an Eidolon as he uses his abilities, maybe make ghost synovia's appear or something more than just his shoulder growths. 

Edit: If they wanted to keep his kit, because Revenant is Rebecca's concept, they could just reskin it onto a new vampire frame and then make revenant anew.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

14 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Jokes on you, I love Revenant.

I just hate how people reduce him to a press-4-to-win frame.

Because his 4 is his only good ability.

Enthrall effectively just doesn’t exist in squads. So everything that ability provides also does not exist.

Mesmer skin is only effective in Index, and there are better frame options for that anyways.

And since Mesmer does provide 100% DR there is no reason to need a self heal. So Reave is worthless.

Danse provides reliable AOE Damage. It’s just a shame it’s attached to one of the worst frames in the game.

[Pizzarugi]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because his 4 is his only good ability.

 If you think pressing 4 and doing nothing while the game plays itself for you is good, I'm glad you don't work for DE. Nukes take the "horde" out of "horde shooter" and doesn't belong in Warframe, not without MAJOR restrictions.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Enthrall effectively just doesn’t exist in squads. So everything that ability provides also does not exist.

So make it so thralls can't be killed by teammates and make sure they don't count for waves in defense. Simple fix. Perhaps you should encourage DE to actually do something about it.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Mesmer skin is only effective in Index

And everywhere else. It's just as powerful in level 1 Mercury as it is in the Outer Terminus of Pluto on Steel Path or Sorties. You saying it's bad doesn't make it so.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

And since Mesmer does provide 100% DR there is no reason to need a self heal. So Reave is worthless.

Until you get hit with environmental hazards which ignores Mesmer Skin completely. Additionally, it still serves as a means of healing if you forget to recast the ability. Finally, it's primarily a damage dealer, the healing is a secondary feature.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Danse provides reliable AOE Damage. It’s just a shame it’s attached to one of the worst frames in the game.

"Reliable", as in good for only trivializing the standard star chart with no effort. It struggles in level 100+ missions and any kind of endurance endless runs.

Bruh, you wanna know why people take anything you say with a grain of salt? Invading and attempting to derail other peoples' topics whenever Revenant is mentioned. You've made several threads regarding Revenant, please stay there.

[nslay]

Neat idea! I guess I wouldn't miss his 4 much. Although I like his 4 for quickly clearing Interception towers in the process of being taken over (which doesn't generally work well in Steel Path). But Khora is better at Interception anyway...

Could we also address his Warden of Eidolons background? This frame should have some special defenses/advantages over Eidolons (and no, the wiki is mostly wrong about special Mesmer Skin interactions with Eidolon attacks). Being able to kill Vomvalysts with his 4 was one nicety until it got fixed/changed.

I'm not asking to be able to one shot Eidolon shields or Synovia! Just something man! He was the Warden of Eidolons for Void's sake.

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

On 2021-02-23 at 9:09 PM, YikersDikers said:

You can't just use the Helminth system as a way to avoid the problems that Revenant has.

I'm going to use this sentence to go beyond, plus ultra.

Just because Helminth exists doesn't mean we can turn a blind eye to issues that frames have.

Just because Xata's Whisper on Xaku can be replaced with Roar, Eclipse, or literally anything decent doesn't mean that we can ignore how Void damage is one of the worse damage types.

[YikersDikers]

13 hours ago, (XBOX)HollowCube987 said:

I'm going to use this sentence to go beyond, plus ultra.

Just because Helminth exists doesn't mean we can turn a blind eye to issues that frames have.

Just because Xata's Whisper on Xaku can be replaced with Roar, Eclipse, or literally anything decent doesn't mean that we can ignore how Void damage is one of the worse damage types.

This^

Revenant and other frames like Grendel need some loving, and just because the helminth system can make them better, doesn't mean they don't still need and deserve some loving or the form of tweaking or changes.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

17 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

 If you think pressing 4 and doing nothing while the game plays itself for you is good, I'm glad you don't work for DE. Nukes take the "horde" out of "horde shooter" and doesn't belong in Warframe, not without MAJOR restrictions.

So make it so thralls can't be killed by teammates and make sure they don't count for waves in defense. Simple fix. Perhaps you should encourage DE to actually do something about it.

And everywhere else. It's just as powerful in level 1 Mercury as it is in the Outer Terminus of Pluto on Steel Path or Sorties. You saying it's bad doesn't make it so.

Until you get hit with environmental hazards which ignores Mesmer Skin completely. Additionally, it still serves as a means of healing if you forget to recast the ability. Finally, it's primarily a damage dealer, the healing is a secondary feature.

"Reliable", as in good for only trivializing the standard star chart with no effort. It struggles in level 100+ missions and any kind of endurance endless runs.

Bruh, you wanna know why people take anything you say with a grain of salt? Invading and attempting to derail other peoples' topics whenever Revenant is mentioned. You've made several threads regarding Revenant, please stay there.

Just because it’s a brain dead play style doesn’t mean it’s not also the most effective.

It’s pretty petty to want a change just so team mates can’t kill your Thralls more effectively than you can. I’ve already suggested replacing the Thralls with Vomvalysts, and giving them more Eidolon accurate utilities.

And yet every other tank ability tends to outlast Mesmer because they’re not completely reliant on a horrible design for a horde shooter. Seriously, charges was a mistake. Not to mention that the 100% DR is kind of redundant when lesser DRs can still scale very high.

It can’t deal damage without enthrall. Enthrall effectively doesn’t exist. Therefor Reaves damage capabilities effectively don’t exist. Also the damage part is a synergy so it’s primary function is a self heal.

If you’re struggling to kill levels over 100 with Danse. Just press Right trigger.

Hey man you’re the one who both made this Revenant rework thread, and made an isolated comment complaining that people just see Revenant as a press 4 to win frame, and all I did was go into short detail as to why that is the case.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)HollowCube987 said:

I'm going to use this sentence to go beyond, plus ultra.

Just because Helminth exists doesn't mean we can turn a blind eye to issues that frames have.

Just because Xata's Whisper on Xaku can be replaced with Roar, Eclipse, or literally anything decent doesn't mean that we can ignore how Void damage is one of the worse damage types.

But you can use other abilities applied by Helminth having a better effect on the frames other abilities than the ability that’s been replaced, as an argument from how that replaced ability should be improved or completely reworked.

Like you can replace Mesmer skin with Defy and that opens up an build opportunity for Revenant that can turn Danse Macabre into a truly infinite scaling powerhouse for the whole duration of Defy. It also gives you a reason to use Reaves self heal as you’ll be healing the damage you receive, but with mods like Rage equipped you’ll be getting energy back, so it’s just this infinite loop of progressively more damage.

That isn’t possible on normal Revenant as Mesmer Skin actively reduces the number of enemies attacking you. Preventing Danse from properly using its scaling mechanic.

[Mu_Gera]

On 2021-02-23 at 4:44 PM, Pizzarugi said:

However, most of the time I see fellow Revenant players. they only use him for one thing which I consider to be a detriment to the game as a whole: Press-4-to-win

because, and I say this as a die hard rev main, his tanking and scaling damage are overrated and thralls are no where near practical beyond minor distractions, while danse macabre is good enough to nuke most content levels. it's also detrimental for frames to be as convoluted as lavos or pre buff gauss.

but if rev did get a rework, I hope they go after danse macabre first. personally I'd be fine if they just gave him an exalted laser arm canon or even a carbon copy of gantulysts energy pillars or any of the big flashy eidolon attacks really. anything would be better than spinning laser ballerina.

[YikersDikers]

5 minutes ago, cococciolo said:

but if rev did get a rework, I hope they go after danse macabre first. personally I'd be fine if they just gave him an exalted laser arm canon or even a carbon copy of gantulysts energy pillars or any of the big flashy eidolon attacks really. anything would be better than spinning laser ballerina.

Exactly, give him him something that makes him feel like he has the powers of an Eidolon. 

[xZeromusx]

I think going the route of the eidolons is great, but I feel like the abilities could emulate them more? Or use more of their abilities? Or do more with them? His current passive isn't great. The waters thing is rather niche, and the active portion doesn't seem to have a lot of range, and knockdown is a pretty short duration. I don't feel enthused by the passives here though either. So, here's my suggestion.

Passive: Sentient Residue: When Revenant's shields break, he leaves "Sentient Residue" pools behind him as he moves around until his shields return. These pools inflict 100 tau damage to enemies that enter them, and persist for 8 seconds. (About time we saw some tau damage in the game, and what better frame than the eidolon frame?)

Teralyst: Ground Smash: Revenant slams the ground, sending out homing quakes that seek out enemies in range, prioritizing enthralled targets.

Sends a ground quakes which travel at 5m/s towards the nearest thrall. Enemies in the ground quake's 3 meter radius path are dealt moderate physical damage and knocked prone. If a quake hits an enthralled target, they are dealt massive physical damage, and create another ground quake which travels to the next closest thrall. The ground quakes will continue to travel from thrall to thrall until there are none left.

Ability Strength affects the damage of the quakes, but doesn't change how many are created.

Ability Range affects the radius of the ground quake's path, and its travel speed.

Ability Duration has no effect.

Ability Efficiency reduces casting cost.

 

Gantulyst: Star Prism: Revenant slams the ground, causing pillars of energy to erupt under enthralled enemies in range, dealing massive adaptive damage to them before creating Star Prisms above them which inflict adaptive damage to enemies around them for a duration.

Requires thralls, and for them to be in affinity range. Otherwise it can't be casted. Instant death to thralls in range, sacrificing them to create Star Prisms above them. Star Prisms act essentially like how Danse Macabre currently acts, creating damaging beams that spin around and around, damaging anything they hit in a 8/10/12/15m radius for 5/6/7/8 second duration. Star Prisms will follow above any enthralled enemies that survive the initial cast. Initial cast range is 8/10/12/15m

Ability Strength increases initial cast damage and beam damage from Star Prisms.

Ability Range increases initial cast range, but not Star Prism range.

Ability duration increases the duration of the Star Prisms.

Ability Efficiency reduces casting cost.

 

For the Hydrolyst, I like your concept, but I would take it in a different direction.

Hydrolyst: Rains of Eidolon: Revenant reaches out with his sentient hand, channeling energy into his thralls and draining them of health and shields to generate shields and overshield for himself and allies in range. Each second of channeling creates a growing cloud above each thrall which inflicts tau damage on enemies in the radius.

Costs 3 energy per second to channel per thrall in affinity range. The Revenant and his thralls become rooted in place, and Revenant becomes immune to damage and is unable to cast other abilities while channeling. A cloud begins to form above each thrall, inflicting 100/200/300/400 tau damage to the thrall and to enemies in a 5 meter radius. This radius expands outward by .25 meters per second, continually growing in size until the thrall dies, Revenant ends the channeling, or runs out of energy. If the thrall dies, the cloud will persist for 5/6/7/8 seconds before dissipating. While channeling, Revenant also generates a 5m cloud around him, which generates 25 shield and overshield per second for himself and allies inside the cloud. This cloud also grows by .25 meters per second, continually, until all thralls die, Revenant ends channeling, or runs out of energy. If all thralls are killed with this ability, the cloud will persist for 5/6/7/8 seconds before dissipating.

Ability Strength increases tau damage, but not shield generation.

Ability Range has no effect.

Ability Duration affects channeling cost and all cloud durations.

Ability Efficiency reduces cast time and channeling cost.

[Roble_Viejo]

YES!!! I agree Fully since the day Revenant launched!



Dance Macabre is just a worse Mirage' Prism Guard
because Mirage can still Parkour after casting it. 

DE needs to put the Eidolon in Revenant. 

I always pictured something like this:

[LillyRaccune]

2 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

DE needs to put the Eidolon in Revenant. 

I always pictured something like this:

I was always confused about Revenant's theme. He looks like an eidolon, but has Void Corrupter abilities and Dance of Death is more "sentient" than "eidolon". Sentient Battalysts and Shadow Stalker also have the omni-directional laser attack.

I like your suggestion in the .gif. Considering the semi-spectral nature of eidolons, I can see this working without breaking immersion.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

Its like an eidolon + a storm frame all rolled up into one

This sounds magnificent! Nice work!

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

On 2021-02-28 at 1:14 PM, LillyRaccune said:

I was always confused about Revenant's theme. He looks like an eidolon, but has Void Corrupter abilities and Dance of Death is more "sentient" than "eidolon". Sentient Battalysts and Shadow Stalker also have the omni-directional laser attack.

I like your suggestion in the .gif. Considering the semi-spectral nature of eidolons, I can see this working without breaking immersion.

His first 3 abilities are vampire themed due to someone’s very very bad choices. His original 4 was an AOE sleep, but after both the community and Steve asked why the Eidolon frame doesn’t have any Eidolons powers they had it replaced with Danse Macabre.

Still not enough to actually make him Eidolon themed.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

On 2021-03-02 at 1:20 PM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

His first 3 abilities are vampire themed due to someone’s very very bad choices. His original 4 was an AOE sleep, but after both the community and Steve asked why the Eidolon frame doesn’t have any Eidolons powers they had it replaced with Danse Macabre.

Still not enough to actually make him Eidolon themed.

Gears, just let it go...

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

15 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Gears, just let it go...

[Vortex]

Revenant is great, don't touch it!!

Go fix grendel or nyx.