Newbies have it too hard

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

I was playing earlier today and I helped a few newbies I picked up in recruiting chat, they weren't there for squads or clans they were just like "Hi guys I'm new, what's with all the numbers?" 

then another newbie said "Oh HEYY! I'm new too!" and I had to message them on xbox about how the chats work and gifted them each their own immortal skin. Afterwards I told them I'd give them some advice or answer any questions before I get off, they had a ton of questions about some of the more simple stuff, like how to get new frames, what do mods do, how do I get platinum, and most of the time my answers led into even more questions. I thought about it for awhile after and newbies really don't get any guidance at all other than Lotus and Ordis giving vague descriptions of just the planets and main quests. Looking back at 2016 when I first started playing I had no idea how to get a new warframe, I literally didn't get any new frame for four months until somebody said that I could get Volt from The Sergeant. I came back years later (mid 2020) and I looked into mod guides. After watching the guides I came back into my mod section of weapons and warframes, it was trash, I had blast on my Paris and .4 multishot when I had a ton of other mods to put on it. Sure there are small tidbit guides to damage if your cursor hovers over the damage type(which never shows you this is a thing). Why is there no real guidance? Unless a newbie has a patient higher MR mentor to babysit them the entire way most players give up fro the "complicated and hard" start of getting into warframe. I gave up playing it back in 2016 because I never knew how to get plat and how to get past my plat block. I came back in 2020 and watched a ton of guides and videos by Ashisogi Tenno and I came back and crushed the game. I went from feeling stressed and overwhelmed wanting to get farther but feeling literally stuck to getting around 9 Warframes in two months, reaching MR10, getting up to 200 plat in a month, actually clearing most of my starchart without feeling like my guns were shooting nerf pellets. I don't expect DE to put a tutorial for every menu that pops up but maybe put some more guidance on how to get warframes, modding, and explain the trade/plat system. I doubt they'd do that last bit, they make a ton of revenue from sorry newbies buying plat because they're stuck. Does anyone else feel like there should be a bit more solo guidance? At least add some text to some of the menus and explain the damages and what they do. They lose so many new players because of practically zero guidance to this very content rich game.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

Btw I stopped playing because I needed 20 plat for a weapon slot for my Fragor, I thought it was the coolest thing ever when I finally equipped that thing when I finally farmed out a handful of plat 🤣, the Fragor made me give up warframe for 4 1/2 years

[vegetosayajin]

An in-game modding guide(even if not the best) is pretty much required but it doesn't exist.
I was hoping that the new starting quest that launched last year will address this in some fashion but it was only a pretty reskin of the previous one.
 

[_Tormex_]

When I started, my friend helped me some, but I mostly just did research for the systems that I needed info on. A few more in-game tutorials would be nice tho

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

4 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

An in-game modding guide(even if not the best) is pretty much required but it doesn't exist.

Literally. It gives you all these stats and effects but doesn't give you any info on what it does, I still sometimes have to search how exactly a certain stat works since there's like 4 different systems for chance and effectiveness on statuses and crits.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

Just now, _Tormex_ said:

A few more in-game tutorials would be nice tho

Exactly, I don't expect DE to add a dang 4 slide google presentation any time you open a menu but at least for the beginner stuff they definitely need more in game tutorials. I also feel like Platinum shouldn't be available until you need to buy a new slot(which usually pops up in the first couple days if you decide to craft some stuff)

[HoustonDragon]

I think especially some of the more crucial mods should be more readily available. Adaptation, for example, needs to have the entire Star Map unlocked for Arbitrations, which new players are not going to know or have access to. Endo and credit costs also are somewhat punitive for low levels, where by the time you're in your mid-MR 20s, they become mostly negligible as you've already maxed out the primary ones to use.

 

There's also really no reason for the common mods to be automatically available in a new player's inventory right away. The base element mods for Heat, Cold, Toxin, and Electricity are super important for folks to learn how to use, especially against higher armored or shielded foes. Also, I would get rid of the flawed mods entirely, they are both pointless compared to the base mods, and are also a trick scam way for new players to waste previous endo/credits accidentally upgrading.

 

A few more base assembled weaponry would also be nice. It was frustrating as a new player to learn about the other existing weapons that were available via the Market for mastery points, since the Marketplace is defaulted towards Platinum purchases, and often does not give clear information for new players about buying and crafting from the available blueprints. A better reference guide for the needed components (especially previously built weaponry) to be used for upgraded patterns would also be nice to see.

 

Finally, the method of actually collecting Warframes and their components is somewhat flawed overall. Some Frames have excellent backstories and quests (Baruuk is a great example), while others are simply RNG luck farming the various bosses. There are also some like Nidus or Harrow that are frustratingly difficult to obtain parts, or worse, are locked behind excessive prerequirements to be able to even access the bosses, making it even more difficult to obtain.

 

It'd be nice if the game had quests to allow players to obtain all the base Warframes, and then have that Warframe be used along with the Prime blueprints and components to actually upgrade to the final Primed version. That would allow players to actually play and learn the various abilities along the quests, so they would be ready for the upgraded versions. Overall, I love Warframe itself, but there's just a TON of offline third party source material that's constantly required (and often already outdated) that should be more readily available in the actual game.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

1 minute ago, HoustonDragon said:

Also, I would get rid of the flawed mods entirely, they are both pointless compared to the base mods, and are also a trick scam way for new players to waste previous endo/credits accidentally upgrading.

I have a max rank flawed equilibrium still in my mods section that reminds me of my sins, the concept was neat but utterly pointless other than confusing newbies and they should be removed tbh

[o0Despair0o]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

Fragor made me give up warframe for 4 1/2 years

 

Seriously though, DE's lack of tutorials is just hilarious at this point.

I didn't know you could improve mods until I was on MR7 lol

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

3 minutes ago, HoustonDragon said:

There are also some like Nidus or Harrow that are frustratingly difficult to obtain parts, or worse, are locked behind excessive prerequirements to be able to even access the bosses, making it even more difficult to obtain.

 

It'd be nice if the game had quests to allow players to obtain all the base Warframes, and then have that Warframe be used along with the Prime blueprints and components to actually upgrade to the final Primed version.

You beautiful creature, I said these exact words in a few other threads today. This guy gets it

[Joezone619]

In my opinion, i think its the faults of how warframe became popular, warframe didn't usually have advertisements or big announcements, it mostly got popular by people sharing it with friends, it wasn't until fortuna until i saw the first warframe advertisement. so being spread mainly by friends, i suppose DE never felt the need to make a guide or anything early, because those people would have their friends.

but now, people are joining on their own and finding themselves stumped. And DE isn't likely to do anything about it because in their minds, they probably already have with adding the "question chat" that nobody actually uses.

[JimmuTanno88]

10 minutes ago, HoustonDragon said:

It'd be nice if the game had quests to allow players to obtain all the base Warframes, and then have that Warframe be used along with the Prime blueprints and components to actually upgrade to the final Primed version.

That..is an AMAZING idea! Although probably the least-likely thing to happen given how much of DE's revenue comes from prime access. Its also great just to have more lore/quests in general.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

Just now, Joezone619 said:

"question chat" that nobody actually uses.

Wtf is actually the point of QnA if newbies will just clutter Region by asking "How do I get (warframe,resource,weapon)?" and then a 5 page summary on the laws of physics and where to get that item is available? "Here's QnA chat, now we're gonna put QnA systems into Region"

[TheSixOfDiamonds]

I tend to agree that not enough is spelled out for newcomers. Getting some of my friends in lead to a chain of "how do I get that?" five or six layers deep, followed by "how was I supposed to know any of that?"

Sure you might be able to puzzle out Endo drops from missions and is used in upgrading mods. Where to get weapons, frames, blueprints, quests, etc are just these things that "vets" have to explain because DE's system just doesn't explain it.

[Soy77]

On top of overcomplicating game mechanics (why would you need to search and figure out ancient code combinations to kill a clone that got sick because of dead people's blood?), warframe is just so bad at explaining stuff.

And at this point, DE already relies too much on outside sources (wiki) to even salvage the situation. 

There was another game, a huge game, that was like this. The game is interesting and fun to play, but it explains nothing. People didn't know that they can craft weapons or mix and match armors to get different skills. It took that game 14 years and multiple titles until the world accepted it. The game is called Monster Hunter.

So yeah, probably on Warframe II if we're lucky. Other than that, i rarely answer noob's questions. I just point them to google. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

11 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

There was another game, a huge game, that was like this. The game is interesting and fun to play, but it explains nothing. People didn't know that they can craft weapons or mix and match armors to get different skills. It took that game 14 years and multiple titles until the world accepted it. The game is called Monster Hunter.

I tried playing this last year and I was so lost 🤣, maybe i'll come back to it sometime and watch some guides

[nslay]

Newbies will be learning/practicing/remembering some basic math and probability theory.

I think this is a good thing. Math has long been underappreciated... something nobody really ever needs... now it helps you win the damage% category in stat screens in many games.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

Just now, nslay said:

Newbies will be learning/practicing/remembering some basic math and probability theory.

I think this is a good thing. Math has long been underappreciated... something nobody really ever needs... now it helps you win the damage% category in stat screens in many games.

Yes but there is no introduction into why you would even want those numbers, math is a big part of warframe surprisingly, the amount of times I pull up my calculator trying to figure out how much damage imma do while considering crit chance, crit multiplier, multishot, and so on, but if I have no idea what any of the damages do then why use them. They need to at least have a prompt for the damage explanation, most people dont know that you can see a damage desc.

[nslay]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

Yes but there is no introduction into why you would even want those numbers, math is a big part of warframe surprisingly, the amount of times I pull up my calculator trying to figure out how much damage imma do while considering crit chance, crit multiplier, multishot, and so on, but if I have no idea what any of the damages do then why use them. They need to at least have a prompt for the damage explanation, most people dont know that you can see a damage desc.

Yep, it's a big problem in many games. Even more user friendly games like Diablo 3 do not really provide mathematics details on game mechanics.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

Is Warframe’s (lack of) tutorial a problem? Most people say yes and I can certainly understand that sentiment. But learning this game was one of the most fun times I can recall having in a video game. Having to use Google and the Wiki a lot was only a minor inconvenience for me that was far outweighed by the fun of figuring things out.

I can only speak for myself, but I personally enjoyed this game not telling me anything. Made it more engaging for me, but again I’m just one guy. I know most people would appreciate some more guidance from the game.

[Zimzala]

I started a couple years ago from scratch. I had to take a break because someone from the forums would not stop sending walls of text thinking they were 'helping', when they were just regurgitating the wiki I had already read as much I wanted. 

I prefer direct learning through experimentation.

If the game had held me by the hand and had done what many here suggest, especially with making some mods easier to get, I would never have kept playing.

Why many want this game to cater to those that don't want to think for themselves, that's just not something I understand, this is a game for people who like to think for themselves, to figure out things on their own, to experiment, IME/IMO. If you really need data, the Internet provides it in massive sites for this game.

Personal Initiative. Player Agency. These are positives, not negatives. I feel like a lot of people just want to be shown what to do so they can start complaining about having nothing to do when the short circuited the whole experience by rushing to the end.

22 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Is Warframe’s (lack of) tutorial a problem? Most people say yes and I can certainly understand that sentiment. But learning this game was one of the most fun times I can recall having in a video game. Having to use Google and the Wiki a lot was only a minor inconvenience for me that was far outweighed by the fun of figuring things out.

I can only speak for myself, but I personally enjoyed this game not telling me anything. Made it more engaging for me, but again I’m just one guy. I know most people would appreciate some more guidance from the game.

You are not alone.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

I still remember when I first saw the in-game tip: "Combine base elemental mods to create new elements" or something to that effect.  I can't count how many mods I transmuted and never got a new combo element🤣😅.  Did that for a few months I think before I met someone in a mission that took me into their clan and under their wing. 

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

5 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I started a couple years ago from scratch. I had to take a break because someone from the forums would not stop sending walls of text thinking they were 'helping', when they were just regurgitating the wiki I had already read as much I wanted. 

I prefer direct learning through experimentation.

If the game had held me by the hand and had done what many here suggest, especially with making some mods easier to get, I would never have kept playing.

Why many want this game to cater to those that don't want to think for themselves, that's just not something I understand, this is a game for people who like to think for themselves, to figure out things on their own, to experiment, IME/IMO. If you really need data, the Internet provides it in massive sites for this game.

Personal Initiative. Player Agency. These are positives, not negatives. I feel like a lot of people just want to be shown what to do so they can start complaining about having nothing to do when the short circuited the whole experience by rushing to the end.

You are not alone.

I do think there is a middle ground, though. I don’t think everyone who wants a better tutorial just wants their hand held necessarily. The game does need a better tutorial, I’m just personally not one of the players that cares that much.

IMO, instead of implementing a better tutorial, the easiest fix would be for DE to just embrace the wiki and include a link to it in game. 

[ebrl]

I don't really buy the idea that Warframe is this super complicated game that needs a detailed step-by-step guide to master. It is pretty bad at explaining things, sure, but so is nearly every other game out there. You could even say that learning is the game in Warframe, because once you know what to do, it is by far the most braindead game I have invested any significant amount of time into - it is largely designed around not letting players lose, there is probably a whiteboard somewhere at DE with MISSION FAILURES ARE BAD FOR PLAYER RETENTION written on it. By the time you understand how it works, there is only fashion and flexing left to do, it stops being much of a "game" and becomes something closer to a playground of slightly genocidal casual activities.

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I do think there is a middle ground, though. I don’t think everyone who wants a better tutorial just wants their hand held necessarily. The game does need a better tutorial, I’m just personally not one of the players that cares that much.

IMO, instead of implementing a better tutorial, the easiest fix would be for DE to just embrace the wiki and include a link to it in game. 

I was careful not to say 'everyone'. 😉

IMO, the middle ground already exists, but obviously some people are just convinced everything needs to be in the game, for them the idea of having to look up data collected by players on an external site is not some 'terrible sin' that so many seem to think it is.

It's not like you can't Google 'warframe basic concepts' and not get all the data you could want, IMO.

I am also always amazed at what some people call a tutorial, TBH. One single page of prose outlined how mods work, for example, from a quick Internet search told me all I needed to know. If someone just thinks they need to be told they can put Endo into mods, that's one thing, but to think they are going to be told where to go and what to look for just focuses many players on the fastest way to the 'endgame' where 'al the players are' and the spiral into acting like a 'calloused veteran' begins, because they skipped the game.

I have been to this BBQ for years, it never changes, some like to figure it out, some like to be told what to do.