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About upcoming melee "nerf" and suggested tweak


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As Devs said in recent devstream. They are tweaking melee, not nerfing.

Think about it how overloaded melee currently is. It has triple scaling damage, applies a lot of statuses on enemies, staggers and basically permanent cc. Has access to finishers, some can nuke areas around you, and some can be tossed like glaives and also nuke. List goes on.

What does tweaking mean then?

Tweaking means taking some of overloaded stuff and move them to underloaded to balance things up.

Let's use an example:

Melee and primary weapons/sidearms being dependent on each other. 

Let's say we build glaive for 200% status chance, heavy attack and viral only

One throw would apply 10 viral stacks to everyone in a room, and then using bramma build purely for condition overload and crit chance nukes all enemies affected. And this could be applied vise-versa (you can use either melee or firearm as main damage source, while second source stays as a debuff)

Now not melee is the only available efficient option. The suggested tweak took away the scaling damage from melee and applied it to guns, while leaving melee as some kind of support.

 

This strategy already exists in a game in form of Kuva Nukor + any melee built for condition overload and crit. The suggested tweak simply allowed the firearms to do become the main source of damage.

This also means, more free mod slots on both sides so since you save slots that would usually be used for status or elemental damage it could be used for more magazine size, ammo mutation, reload speed, recoil or this melee mod that increases your movement speed after killing sb with a charged attack.

 

The possibilities are limitless, but what effort does it take from Digital Extremes in terms of coding, modeling, texturing etc.?

change the restriction on Condition overload from melee to all weapons

(and also prevent it from being used more than once in loadout but it was already a thing in sentinel weapons so it shouldn't be a problem)

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I'll still play, but will have to see just what the nerf entails, may be better/worse than the stream led to believe. Its also buffing guns, which will be interesting. It would take alot to get melee to its 1.0 stage, I don't think just a nerf to weapons themselves could do that.

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Devs: we think that melee is an important part of warframe and so we don't want to nerf it, but bring guns more to the level of melee. It will be 90% gun buff and 10% nerf.

Forum: WAAH NERF, MELEE 1.0, wah wah wah

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59 minutes ago, FallenDisc said:

(and also prevent it from being used more than once in loadout but it was already a thing in sentinel weapons so it shouldn't be a problem)

This is like nail in the coffin

Scenario A
You have 1-3 weapons on which u have CO so by any chance you wont have it on others to not waste mod slot

Scenario B
Managing each loadout to have only 1 CO each time you are changing some weapons

Both scenarios = no fun

On top of that i know i cant speak for everyone but im not fan of combine multiple weapons attack into 1 damage output
When i get kuva nukor i just ranked it to 40 and never touched it again

What next? Maybe we remove elements from weapons and make only warframes deal elemental damage or infuse them on weapons
So you need saryn if u want to have toxic or viral damage on your weapon
Does that sound fun? Use 1 ability or 2 to have some element on your weapon

Yeah possibilities to create stupid things are limitless i can agree with you on that

And dont get me wrong im not attacking your idea
I see where you see fun in that and maybe it would be cool after all

Im just looking 3 steps ahead
Where are we going with that kind of changes

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If I understood it correctly the things scott mentioned was removing melee stagger from some attacks in the stances and making it so attack speed mods conflict with each other. The first one seems fair honestly and the second one feels extremely irrelevant. Who even uses more than one attack speed mod on a build?

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2 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Who even uses more than one attack speed mod on a build?

I do, because most enemies aren't durable, and modding for higher damage per swing is wasted stats. I use fire rate/reload on some guns for the same reason. There's also Rivens to take into account. Some weapons also already have an element on them, so even if you're using a dual element stats, you save a slot there too. High attackspeed with some stances also amount to higher mobility. I personally am hoping they change their mind on this, especially since I generally use 2x speed mods on weapons that are slower anyways {Karyst-P/K-Shildeg]. If they don't allow attackspeed stacking, I won't have any mod to fill in the last spot in these situations, as the majority of mods are all increased damage per swing, or do nothing useful.

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il y a 12 minutes, Drachnyn a dit :

and the second one feels extremely irrelevant. Who even uses more than one attack speed mod on a build?

Any sane player that know Berserker stack multiplicatively with normal attack speed mods and want more DPS, status, comfort, mobility and faster combo buildup (so everyone ?).
The only reasion to not use 2 attack speed mods is you already get normal attack speed from Arcane Strike or Warframe powers that do the same.

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34 minutes ago, nelu_Y3K said:

Will you still play Warframe after the upcomming nerf?

Will melee be worse thwn mellee 1.0?

What do you think?

If you read the forums after the latest devstream: 

Melee is dying

Railjack is dying

Eidolon hunts are already dead even though the update isn't here

And people might stop playing WF and the whole game will die because of melee nerf. 

Jeez I am starting to see what some forum users are saying, ya'll are literally addicted to a feeling of outrage, fear and panic. It gets you guys high, doesn't it? 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb lukinu_u:

Any sane player that know Berserker stack multiplicatively with normal attack speed mods and want more DPS, status, comfort, mobility and faster combo buildup (so everyone ?).
The only reasion to not use 2 attack speed mods is you already get normal attack speed from Arcane Strike or Warframe powers that do the same.

alright what are you dropping for two attack speed mods, show me one of those builds. I know that berserker works differently than normal attack speed mods.

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5 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

This is like nail in the coffin

I don't see how's that a nail in the coffin.

Currently the gameplay of warframe is barely engaging to the point where gameplay can be easily replaced with macros. Other than that, most of our current equipment competes with each other. Everything competes with everything in dps. Melee with firearms, firearms with warframes, warframes with pets etc. 
The idea of that suggestion is to give each of game's parts of equipment a role. Like sentinels should assist player, not compete with him in damage, weapons should be able to be used for utility as well, to prevent pointless damage stacking. There is no need to remove elemental damage from weapons because:
1. weapons prioritize enemies, warframes prioritize themselves mainly (sustain, self buffing, movement, stealth) and in some examples also enemies. - very few warframes actually inflict status efficiently
2. what about warframes that don' have any specific types of damage? They would be tossed into trash and only frames like lavos or saryn would shine.

Sure, some people may like making a macro that presses whipclaw every few seconds, uses a energy pad every now and then farming steel essence, and while its happening they're not even at home or just sleeping.

Some may like pressing left mouse button and reaching max performance in sanctuary onslaught.

 

The game is playing itself Jon

 

If your concern is that using 2 sources to deal 1 damage might be slow or inefficient, think about how we all rejected heavy attacks at first thinking it would be slow. If you wish to try exactly what Im thinking of try Kuva nukor while dual wielding Glaive prime. Nukor with all status mods, and glaive prime for the heavy attack toss build. Apply status on enemies, then throw glaive at them. That's what Im trying to say. Except with primaries being able to do the same what glaive can

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28 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

If I understood it correctly the things scott mentioned was removing melee stagger from some attacks in the stances and making it so attack speed mods conflict with each other. The first one seems fair honestly and the second one feels extremely irrelevant. Who even uses more than one attack speed mod on a build?

I use 2 speed mods.
Berserk, because has the highest possible speed boost per mod, but you have to work for it a little,
and Gladiator Vice, because of the Set Bonus.

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il y a 12 minutes, Drachnyn a dit :

alright what are you dropping for two attack speed mods, show me one of those builds. I know that berserker works differently than normal attack speed mods.

This is a generic build that would work on any weapon. Here I'm using Arcane Strike but if it didn't exist I would trade Primed Reach for Primed Fury.
I'm playing mainly Saryn which is why I go toxin, so I would maybe use another elemental mod with other Warframes but I still wouldn't trade any of the other mods here for a second element.

Also, a Riven with +Range +CritDMG and a good negative instead of Primed Reach would improve the build.

unknown.png

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1 minute ago, lukinu_u said:

This is a generic build that would work on any weapon. Here I'm using Arcane Strike but if it didn't exist I would trade Primed Reach for Primed Fury.
I'm playing mainly Saryn which is why I go toxin, so I would maybe use another elemental mod with other Warframes but I still wouldn't trade any of the other mods here for a second element.

Also, a Riven with +Range +CritDMG and a good negative instead of Primed Reach would improve the build.

unknown.png

that honest has too little damage lol 

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They could nerf melee damage by 50% and they would still be top tier.

Frankly, making it so you can't stack attack speed mods helps you, because it's not something you should be doing anyway. You want to be stacking different multipliers to your damage, not doubling up on the same. 

Edited by ShogunGunshow
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8 minutes ago, FallenDisc said:

I don't see how's that a nail in the coffin.

It isn't. This is simply a matter of the toxic Warframe community vocalizing their inability to assess productive change.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb ShogunGunshow:

Frankly, making it so you can't stack attack speed mods helps you, because it's not something you should be doing anyway. You want to be stacking different multipliers to your damage, not doubling up on the same. 

I am absolutely certain that when anyone worth listening to is talking about nerfing melee by changing how attack speed mods stack, they're talking about Berserker, and that is a different multiplier.

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il y a 1 minute, Krankbert a dit :

I am absolutely certain that when anyone worth listening to is talking about nerfing melee by changing how attack speed mods stack, they're talking about Berserker, and that is a different multiplier.

Yeah, it's most likely what they are refering to and it would definitely beneficial to the game flow. Melee are to reliable and easy to use right now and less impactful attack speed mods would make a much more interesting difference between weapons. Right now, you choose between "slow melee that become more than enough with mods" or "fast melee that become get overkill speed with mods but you still use them for all the benefits", and it's not a good thing.

Another great solution would be to change attack speed mods to reduce your damage proportionally to your speed increase so your DPS remain the same. This mean attack speed would only affect status/s, combo buildup, general mobility/flow, but wouldn't affect damage, which mean they act more as a support/QoL that isn't always strong DPS increase.

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Man I'd love a 'Heavy Pendulum' mod that reduced attack speed but caused increased damage an an inverse relationship. And if you killed an enemy with it it would ragdoll them like old Blast used to, knocking them against walls with lots of squishy sound effects.

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