Worthwhile grind, rivens, hypocrisy from today's devstream.

[Goldenrice]

Worthwhile grind.   That was brought up multiple times from questions taken from content creators on today's devstream.  I just find it laughable how they can talk about being considerate towards making "worthwhile" grind in various content, while later in the stream, straight up brushing the "statlocking" riven question aside.  

The main thing players want is take some of the slot machine out of rivens, and add a bit more progression.  There are hundreds of ways you can turn "statlocking" into a worthwhile grind.  Noone would complain about taking the RNG out and turning into a longterm progression goal to make their "perfect" riven.

 

market, balance, none of those outweight the positives that come with revisiting the slot machine called rivens and changing it for the better.   It's been years.  It's time.

 

Nothing plays more into the "power fantasy" than working towards that perfect riven for your favorite gun.   It's too bad the vast majority of players won't ever come close to one because of the RNG 

[Goldenrice]

Let me also add that i havent farmed kuva or rolled rivens in years.

 

I find it much easier to farm the 2k-10k+ platinum to just buy the riven from someone, because thats more of a "worthwhile" grind than kuva to roll rivens.  If thats not a sign of how bad this system is, I dont know......

[PublikDomain]

Just now, Goldenrice said:

Noone would complain about taking the RNG out and turning into a longterm progression goal to make their "perfect" riven.

Oh of course some will, they do every time this gets brought up. Some people, apparently, enjoy leaving everything up to RNG with terrible odds and zero progression.

[Myscho]

Rivens are money cows, so of course they sweep everything about it

[Goldenrice]

3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Oh of course some will, they do every time this gets brought up. Some people, apparently, enjoy leaving everything up to RNG with terrible odds and zero progression.

Yeah the traders who are trying to make thousands of platinum take issue with any kind of changes that might lower the cost of rivens.

I have no room to talk because I also benefit from the current system.  But I've been saying for years, the rng behind rivens has to change.

 

It's just so weird to me that DE will stand behind the current system, which really only benefits a minority of players, literally the 1%-5% of players who can throw around thousands of platinum

[Hypernaut1]

Stat locking is a horrible idea. If you do that, may as well just release cc/cd mods for every weapon. 

[PublikDomain]

2 minutes ago, Goldenrice said:

It's just so weird to me that DE will stand behind the current system, which really only benefits a minority of players, literally the 1%-5% of players who can throw around thousands of platinum

It's really not so weird, it makes total sense from a certain perspective.

Quote

Greed makes a person sloppy, Hotshot, remember that.

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If you do that, may as well just release cc/cd mods for every weapon. 

These already exist, you just have to pay money for them or get incredibly lucky. 🙄

[Goldenrice]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Stat locking is a horrible idea. If you do that, may as well just release cc/cd mods for every weapon. 

statlocking or slot machine.  you're choosing slot machine? you have 10,000 posts on these forums and thats the hill you wanna die on?

 

you don't have to just gift cc/cd into every riven for all the players.  you just make them grind for it, like everything else in the game.

[Hypernaut1]

1 minute ago, Goldenrice said:

statlocking or slot machine.  you're choosing slot machine? you have 10,000 posts on these forums and thats the hill you wanna die on?

 

you don't have to just gift cc/cd into every riven for all the players.  you just make them grind for it, like everything else in the game.

Soooo..... Either make stat locking easy to do, or make it hard enough that players feel like they are forced to do it and complain about it. 

 

[PublikDomain]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

Soooo..... Either make stat locking easy to do, or make it hard enough that players feel like they are forced to do it and complain about it.

"Forced" is an odd way to describe an optional system... If they added stat-locking you could just, you know, not use stat-locking if you like the slot machine experience so much.

[Goldenrice]

3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Soooo..... Either make stat locking easy to do, or make it hard enough that players feel like they are forced to do it and complain about it. 

 

I'm confused here, it seems like youre just trying to be argumentative for the sake of having an argument.   That's a nonanswer to my question about whether you prefer statlocking or slot machines.

 

 

[DrivaMain]

43 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Rivens are money cows, so of course they sweep everything about it

If Rivens are money cows, why does DE made new weapon rivens “useless” on release?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

whether you want stat locking or no, the truth of the matter is that DE won't change Rivens too much from what they are, because it's lucrative. and it's lucrative for them because some idiots spend exorbitant amounts of plat on a single mod, usually for a weapon that doesn't even need the extra power.

[Zimzala]

I am for 100% slot machine, always heave been, always will be.

Way more fun to find a nice drop that way, IMO.

No reason to just turn it into a deterministic chore, I prefer to just play the game and get stuff.

Rivens are a nice bonus, not a destination or a given.

[Surbusken]

I have to agree with everyone.

 

First it's a forever grind that is straight up made to not be finished. You could spend years putting kuva into a mod trying to get something good.

Before then you could spend the better part of 146 years trying to unlock a mod for the right weapon.

Which is great, since there is no end-game.

Then as others have said the amount of plat going around for rivens is insane.

 

I will also say you have to accept corporations are a business and will say whatever they can to sell as much as they can.

They have no loyalty or relationship with the players - I usually get the feeling developers actually hate the players for calling them out and criticizing their mistakes lol.

Meaning whatever corporations say is legit bs but of course they have to sell the narrative that they do respect the players, have the players interests at heart etc etc.

It would be really weird to see a totally honest developer stream though it would be hilarious and awesome.

But yeah if you are sitting there taking notes on "what they said" you are setting yourself up for disappointment but remember it isn't personal. They ignore all of us - equally, it's just business.

 

[Joezone619]

Rivens should not be the only thing worthwhile grinding for.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Goldenrice said:

Worthwhile grind.   That was brought up multiple times from questions taken from content creators on today's devstream.  I just find it laughable how they can talk about being considerate towards making "worthwhile" grind in various content, while later in the stream, straight up brushing the "statlocking" riven question aside.  

This is because they put their foot down on Riven locking before. Their answer was No then and it's still No now. You say that the perfect Riven will be a worthwhile grind, they say that the perfect Riven is something they flat-out do not want you to have. It will be healthier for all of us -- yourself, DE, a theoretical brand new Riven system -- when you find a different hill to die on

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, Goldenrice said:

Worthwhile grind.   That was brought up multiple times from questions taken from content creators on today's devstream.  I just find it laughable how they can talk about being considerate towards making "worthwhile" grind in various content, while later in the stream, straight up brushing the "statlocking" riven question aside.  

The main thing players want is take some of the slot machine out of rivens, and add a bit more progression.  There are hundreds of ways you can turn "statlocking" into a worthwhile grind.  Noone would complain about taking the RNG out and turning into a longterm progression goal to make their "perfect" riven.

 

market, balance, none of those outweight the positives that come with revisiting the slot machine called rivens and changing it for the better.   It's been years.  It's time.

 

Nothing plays more into the "power fantasy" than working towards that perfect riven for your favorite gun.   It's too bad the vast majority of players won't ever come close to one because of the RNG 

The issue is players not taking good rolls when they appear because they only want perfect rolls. It's kuva addicts that want everything easier and faster, just like the Helminth took too long to get when it was released when people got it in like a few days to a week or straight up just asked to be able to buy it with plat. 

When people talk about adding progression to rivens, it's always the easiest form of progression....."yea how about using 100k kuva to lock a stat". Uhm......100k kuva is absolutely nothing and can be made in a couple hours.....in a month you would have god rolls for every weapon in the game.

"Let us use riven slivers to lock stats". Oh, you mean those things that people post having 1,200 of? Sure, that totally won't be abused. It's not like they dropped off eximus units like candy pre Steel path adjustment and also came from kuva relics prior.

They're never actually honest about how it should happen, which is why they conveniently happen to choose the the most easiest way. 

Locking a stat should cost 10 million kuva, but then the guaranteed stat would take too long because "warframe shouldn't be a job". 

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (PSN)Madurai-Prime:

The issue is players not taking good rolls when they appear because they only want perfect rolls. It's kuva addicts that want everything easier and faster, just like the Helminth took too long to get when it was released when people got it in like a few days to a week or straight up just asked to be able to buy it with plat. 

When people talk about adding progression to rivens, it's always the easiest form of progression....."yea how about using 100k kuva to lock a stat". Uhm......100k kuva is absolutely nothing and can be made in a couple hours.....in a month you would have god rolls for every weapon in the game.

"Let us use riven slivers to lock stats". Oh, you mean those things that people post having 1,200 of? Sure, that totally won't be abused. It's not like they dropped off eximus units like candy pre Steel path adjustment and also came from kuva relics prior.

They're never actually honest about how it should happen, which is why they conveniently happen to choose the the most easiest way. 

Locking a stat should cost 10 million kuva, but then the guaranteed stat would take too long because "warframe shouldn't be a job". 

As if your ludicrous exaggerations of farming rates was you being honest. You're projecting. You think because you're making up bullS#&$ numbers to push your opinion, then everyone else must do the same.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

As if your ludicrous exaggerations of farming rates was you being honest. You're projecting. You think because you're making up bullS#&$ numbers to push your opinion, then everyone else must do the same.

Ok. 3 million kuva. Is that too much for you, too? 

[Yamazuki]

I would prefer something else worth grinding that allows better customization of weapons that wouldn't stack with Rivens.

In general, there just needs to be more long term goals, as right now if an event doesn't reward Kuva, there's nothing to get out of it. I didn't bother with OV, because it took a couple runs to get new stuff, and farming plat is pointless, and so is high scores.

[OneYenShort]

3 hours ago, Goldenrice said:

It's just so weird to me that DE will stand behind the current system, which really only benefits a minority of players, literally the 1%-5% of players who can throw around thousands of platinum

You claim it is weird... But do you listen to the minority that can throw money around like crazy, or the masses that spend no money?  Remember, the game doesn't give out plat, so to get plat into the trade system, real monies are used to get it in there to begin with.  (Baring the lucky viewers as it were.)

Now add in the need to pay attention to cultural perspectives and how to best balance that. (If you don't know about asian gaming culture, wait till you read what they really like.)

So no, I don't see it surprising at all.  That and to stay employed you tend to not publicly "shame" that which employees you.

[PublikDomain]

28 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Their answer was No then and it's still No now.

Their answer to Dojo NPCs was also a "no" at one point, people still asked for it anyways, and now it's a "yes". DE changes their mind all the time. There's a video from the GDC Vault uploaded recently of Rebecca in 2018 talking about Warframe's development and community interaction, and a large portion of the talk was "the community asked for it, dev made it so".

Spoiler

 

If the community wants it bad enough, dev can and should "make it so".

31 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

You say that the perfect Riven will be a worthwhile grind, they say that the perfect Riven is something they flat-out do not want you to have.

And yet the perfect Riven for any weapon exists, and anyone can - today - obtain it for themselves. You just have to pay money for it.

Grinding out the perfect Riven on your own seems to be what DE flat-out does not want you to have. It's totally fine if you pay money for it, but getting it yourself? Yucky!

[Tesseract7777]

Steve will allow stat locking over his dead body.

So I really don't know why people keep bringing it up. 

He's not going to do it. Stop beating the dead horse. 

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

He's not going to do it. Stop beating the dead horse. 

I'll stop beating it when he gets down from it.