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Worthwhile grind, rivens, hypocrisy from today's devstream.


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16 hours ago, Goldenrice said:

I find it much easier to farm the 2k-10k+ platinum to just buy the riven from someone, because thats more of a "worthwhile" grind than kuva to roll rivens.  If thats not a sign of how bad this system is, I dont know......

Grinding thousands of plat and then spending it on a single riven for a weapon that could have its disposition nerfed literally just seconds later. If that's not a sign of a "you problem", I don't know.

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20 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

Grinding thousands of plat and then spending it on a single riven for a weapon that could have its disposition nerfed literally just seconds later. If that's not a sign of a "you problem", I don't know.

well im sitting on over a million platinum and my problem isn't with disposition nerfs.  it's not really a "me" problem.  its a warframe problem

the reality is there arent hundreds/thousands of players that can go around throwing thousands of platinum to get these rivens. its a system that caters to a very small minority of players.  thats how its been for years.

i just think having a system that is basically a slot machine, with 0 progression, is dumb..  you can't talk about how you want to make worthwhile grind for the players, and in the same breath have 0 thoughts on changing the current kuva-to-riven stat rolling mechanics.

some of you guys are missing the point here. 

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To begin with, Its a free game and you can acquire different rivens from standings/resources (steel essense/sorties/riven slivers/cephalon). That being said yes, its hard to get the role you want but dont forget the fact you can have 3 OP stats on your riven if you are willing to do the farm. If you feel like its not working for  you, open relics and sell them for play. As for some1 who hasnt purchased  any plat, i made over 20k plat over my play time at least and rolled over    way too many rivens. Again, no1 likes not getting the roles or getting terrible roles on their riven  , but thats how the game works. Considering i can farm 40k kuva per hour which is about 11 rolls, its just fair. The game is built on the trading system, use it well

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3 minutes ago, DoubleM00N said:

To begin with, Its a free game and you can acquire different rivens from standings/resources (steel essense/sorties/riven slivers/cephalon). That being said yes, its hard to get the role you want but dont forget the fact you can have 3 OP stats on your riven if you are willing to do the farm. If you feel like its not working for  you, open relics and sell them for play. As for some1 who hasnt purchased  any plat, i made over 20k plat over my play time at least and rolled over    way too many rivens. Again, no1 likes not getting the roles or getting terrible roles on their riven  , but thats how the game works. Considering i can farm 40k kuva per hour which is about 11 rolls, its just fair. The game is built on the trading system, use it well

if you think kuva farming is a worthwile grind for you, okay. i don't.  and because i don't feel kuva farming is a worthwhile grind, i think DE is spouting out hypocrisy when they talk about worthwhile grind and minutes later, basically ignore a question regarding riven changes

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Stat locking would cos more harm than good and result in complaints about it not being the specific way a player wants it. There are just too many ways on how to implement a stat lock system for RNG items with random stat lines aswell as random values.

I think there are several people that think it would be great, but it would without a doubt come with several limitations once you decide to lock a stat.

1. D3-ish where you can only decide once which stats to keep and which to reroll. In the case of rivens I'd assume DE would go with 1 line possible to lock while the remaining are random.

2. Rivens locked removed from trading.

3. Locked stats are forever locked, it doesnt matter if dispo changes or you decide to pick up an alternate version of the weapon, the locked stats are permanent.

In the end it is a waste of time to add this system since we dont need perfect rivens, heck we dont need rivens to begin with. There are far more important things to change in the game.

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Copied from a similar thread complaining about arcanes...

I get the feeling that the people complaining loudest about this might be RMTers.

Maybe DE should investigate those with ludicrous amounts of plat.

Edited by Psianide73
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10 hours ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

donald duck laughing GIF

 

SkillUp? HAHAHAHAHHAHA. You're kidding right?!??!?! The guy who is super buddy buddy with DE is the guy you want to make a video on this? HAHA. Don't expect anything from the guy who basically chaffuered Rebb, Steve etc. for a video. Thanks, I didn't know I needed this laugh.

Pay that streamer enough money and you can make 'em say anything. They are a streamer after all.

 

Anyway, the solution to all riven related problems: Burn them all.

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5 hours ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

What would DE replace it with? DE makes money from people buying either frames outright (which provides platinum) or by people buying the platinum outright. Were DE to change how it conducts business, they would have to replace the revenue lost from (riven related) plat purchases with something else for players to sink real money into.

Nothing, they don't need to replace it with anything because nothing would be removed. If DE implemented stat-locking for an increased roll cost it'd still be expensive to roll a Riven the way you want it, so a good Riven would still be valuable and tradeable. If they implemented deterministic unveiling there'd be a much greater demand for Veiled Rivens. And if Rivens were more accessible, players like me who have given up on the system entirely would have a reason to come back. Riven traders might not be able to peddle any old piece of garbage for a massive profit anymore, but you'd still be able to buy and sell Rivens like you can now.

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3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

But doesn't the fact that a free player can earn 1000s of plat actually discourage sales as much as anything too? When that 75% discount hits, why would an active riven trader need to buy plat when they know they can make 1000p from that extra vectis riven? 

From personal experience- being able to sell Rivens for 100s of plat has definitely discouraged me from utilizing my plat discounts. I don't think I'm the only one. I know for a fact DE has lost money from me. 50%+ discounts were at least a $20 purchase from me. I stopped buying plat completely after getting into trading. There was no need.

No, because the free player earning 1000p is getting that 1000p from a paid player somewhere down the line. Riven traders don't need to buy plat when they get a discount, but the people they sell to do. You might not be buying plat, but someone else is. You're there to help suck their wallet dry and get their money moving out of the economy. DE might lose a few bucks from direct sales to you, but they make up for it in economic activity.

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Of all the "evil schemes" a company can come up with to gouge players for money, one where the players themselves can profit from too sounds like the absolute best one and we should all be happy about it.  

Riven market is really a win/win genius system then. DE makes money, AND players make money too. It's not even fully dependent on RNG because you can sell unveiled. It gives the average player a chance at a windfall. 

Unless you want to play a game and not a second job, then it just stinks. I want to play Warframe without having to engage in trade unless I really want to. And in 99% of the game I can do just that: play the game and make reasonable progress through my own effort. I have more than enough money, I'll just buy plat if I want it - no coupon needed. It's not about the money, and it's never been about the money, it's about being able to play the game and make progress through my own efforts.

And improving Rivens through stat-locking or other mechanics doesn't remove Riven trading. There'd still be trade, just like people still buy and sell Liches despite their improvements. There might be a different trade, and you might not be able to pawn off any old piece of junk, but the trade would still be there. I just wouldn't have to be a part of it.

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2 hours ago, Goldenrice said:

well im sitting on over a million platinum and my problem isn't with disposition nerfs.  it's not really a "me" problem.  its a warframe problem

the reality is there arent hundreds/thousands of players that can go around throwing thousands of platinum to get these rivens. its a system that caters to a very small minority of players.  thats how its been for years.

i just think having a system that is basically a slot machine, with 0 progression, is dumb..  you can't talk about how you want to make worthwhile grind for the players, and in the same breath have 0 thoughts on changing the current kuva-to-riven stat rolling mechanics.

some of you guys are missing the point here. 

Literally every game has 1 or a handful of rare items that aren't that obtainable by every single player very quickly.

You're playing a free to play game that has 1 major rng lootbox system. Videogames aren't charities and that's just how it is. Warframe totally could have charged us just to enter each planet individually, they could have put cosmetics in lootboxes that you pay 2 bucks each for, added way more cheap tactics etc.

We get the point everyone is making, we're just also pointing out that there's a reality at play and your changes won't come easy, if ever. 

You have to look at this from more than just the angle of "me want strong stuff faster".

Rivens are just for fun but people can't control their own desires. I've literally never been in a mission for 3 hours yet and have maxed focus and almost every frame with 3 to 5 forma, aura forma, multiple rivened weapons with 4 to 7 forma. I've made thousands of plat and just spent it having fun playing the game normally. 

I needed zero "grolls" to fight any of these easy enemies in this easy game. 

Wanna know what one of my favorite rivens is? An Akvasto with 140 MS, 90 something CD, ammo max and -infestation. You can call it trash if you want, but I get jobs done and have fun with it on Steel path even. Some rapid fire headshots take CHGs down in a decent amount of time. 

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Literally every game has 1 or a handful of rare items that aren't that obtainable by every single player very quickly.

You're playing a free to play game that has 1 major rng lootbox system. Videogames aren't charities and that's just how it is. Warframe totally could have charged us just to enter each planet individually, they could have put cosmetics in lootboxes that you pay 2 bucks each for, added way more cheap tactics etc.

We get the point everyone is making, we're just also pointing out that there's a reality at play and your changes won't come easy, if ever. 

You have to look at this from more than just the angle of "me want strong stuff faster".

Rivens are just for fun but people can't control their own desires. I've literally never been in a mission for 3 hours yet and have maxed focus and almost every frame with 3 to 5 forma, aura forma, multiple rivened weapons with 4 to 7 forma. I've made thousands of plat and just spent it having fun playing the game normally. 

I needed zero "grolls" to fight any of these easy enemies in this easy game. 

Wanna know what one of my favorite rivens is? An Akvasto with 140 MS, 90 something CD, ammo max and -infestation. You can call it trash if you want, but I get jobs done and have fun with it on Steel path even. Some rapid fire headshots take CHGs down in a decent amount of time. 

what exactly are you trying to argue here?  there can't/won't be riven changes?

doesnt matter if this is a free game, or if you dont need god roll rivens to play the game.  thats just a copout.  you could very well make the same argument with almost anything else in this game.

 

the original point of this thread being,  you can't talk about being considerate towards "worthwhile" grind while in the same breath completely ignore questions regarding rivens.  its that simple.

go watch the latest devstream.  listen to those questions about worthwhile grind, and DE's answers to those questions.   when you get to the part where rebecca asks the team about riven changes, and you hear Steve's response, let me know how that reflects their previos response on worthwhile grind.

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while we are on the topic of worthwhile grinding.

 

nerfs actually are antithetical to this because devs basically just took whatever you spent x hours/days/months grinding over and deleted/adjusted it beyond redemption. 

 

how's that for a grind being rendered completely worthless. 

 

just some thots 

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2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Gotcha, they're just upset the game hasn't let them do whatever they want with rivens and are venting frustrations about perceived hypocrisy from the devs. I guess I read too much into it. 

you're mistaken.  my entire riven collection is just god tier rivens. 

me:  i need a god tier riven.  i'll just wait around, one will eventually pop up and ill just throw 8k platinum at it.

95% of warframe players:  i really want a god tier riven, but i dont wanna farm 12 million kuva or spend 2k+ platinum for it.   welp, guess ill just forget about god tiers and settle for whatever.

 

You are okay with everyone settling for whatever riven, i'm not.  I think anyone who wants to chase god tier rivens, should have the opportunity to, without spending millions of kuva on a slot machine or trying to get thousands of platinum to buy one.  there are far better ways to go about it

When DE saids they care about putting "worthwhile" grind in their game, I want DE to give rivens that same energy.

the status quo is a far-fetched dream the vast majority of players will never get to experience.  thats the problem.  it's not a worthwhile grind for anyone.

i want all warframe players to experience what i'm able to experience, without having to spend 2k-10k platinum, or waste countless hours farming kuva with nothing to show for it.

if you can't even try to understand where im coming from, then theres really no point in you commenting in this thread any further.  we're going to be talking in circles.

Edited by Goldenrice
a word
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7 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

while we are on the topic of worthwhile grinding.

 

nerfs actually are antithetical to this because devs basically just took whatever you spent x hours/days/months grinding over and deleted/adjusted it beyond redemption. 

 

how's that for a grind being rendered completely worthless. 

 

just some thots 

You're right.

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Rivens are a cancer on this game that will never be changed for the better or removed. DE don't want to do anything about this S#&$ty system and the toxicity it produces will exist until the game dies.

DE knew exactly what they were doing making them tradable. The only reason they removed the companion slot machine is because it was a direct purchase from them as a company. Now DE as a company can swim in its cash piles without worrying about a little cricket because "the players are selling them, not us."

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