Devstream #152, Who made TacticalPotato the End-All-Be-All?

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

A few things...

• Changing melee stances to incorporate the highest damage/cc combos with dynamic inputs is acceptable and accomplishes the goal. 
• You are NOT at a disadvantage in Warframe conceptually. We are in this together! You are at a disadvantage without an experienced player to guide you or being uninterested in learning, not by using a gun over melee. I am MR 30 and haven't been using melee despite it being OP because it's boring and less efficient than certain guns. #MESAPRIMEDISAGREES #KPSNOTDPS 
• We want to kill MANY enemies in Warframe, not 1 or 2 at a time.
• When playing seriously, bring the Sigma & Octantis or Silva & Aegis for the shield damage reduction. Give us trinkets/enemy parts as melees, or give each melee type a bonus to using it similar to S&S. Using that shield to block a rocket will really satisfy a young clan leader, promise.
• Maybe try attaching bait at the end of whips for your kavat to latch onto and attack like Venari, PETS 2.0, but if I can still stack an attack speed riven and Primed Fury, you're not really nerfing melee anyway, as if I care about stacking attack speed on a melee for any other reason but an Ash Prime stat stick. It can be perceived most accurately as an Ash/Zenistar nerf.
• More buffs = More burnout. Reworking intrinsics means players get stronger faster and those who have everything get stronger too. We need a challenge, layers of them to justify the experiences of more and more players getting maxed arcanes, mods, etc. Adding Orphix Venom as an everyday source of them adds to the Helminth conundrum not having anything worth fighting with the new power.
• Love the direction of Railjack, include Steel Path?
• Warframe is about ECONOMICS! We all have access to what we need!
• NO ONE IS SWITCHING FROM GUN TO MELEE UNLESS THEY'RE STRUGGLING TO DO DAMAGE! WE DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR USELESS MODS!
• If you're stacking 3+ attack speed mods, your goal isn't damage
• Avoid the "Taking yourself too seriously" effect. Warframe powers make weapon conversations a joke. I use guns to proc powers my guy. Don't nerf melee completely, just because it's good doesn't mean it's the BEST or that EVERYONE uses it. The simple fact is MOST warframe content doesn't require you do the most damage possible. It requires you kill the greatest amount of enemies in the smallest time and Warframe powers are the META that support that goal. I get that people tapped melee through Steel Path, I used Titania Prime. Warframe is all about freedom of choice! Everything works!
• Shoutout to #GrindHardSquad what if Umbra Forma gave frames the "Umbral effect" Excal umbra has? Then I'd care to install one. 
   

 

[TARINunit9]

They took way more feedback from Quiette Shy than they did from Potato

On 2021-02-26 at 12:36 PM, (XBOX)DarknessZeref said:

• If you're stacking 3+ attack speed mods, your goal isn't damage

Yes it is

On 2021-02-26 at 12:36 PM, (XBOX)DarknessZeref said:

• Shoutout to #GrindHardSquad what if Umbra Forma gave frames the "Umbral effect" Excal umbra has? Then I'd care to install one.

They were going to have an Echoes of Umbra update where that would happen... but the effect only lasted 24 real life hours. The backlash against the timer was so universally negative that they scrapped the idea for later

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

GHS is the epitome of clickbait

[Zimzala]

My question is more along the lines of "why would anyone, for anything, rely on YT talking heads as 'accurate data'?"

I mean, I just do not understand why people think random, loud players that live for clicks would have any magical knowledge any other player does not have already.

Why does anyone invest anything into these talking heads?

[o0Despair0o]

5 hours ago, Zimzala said:

My question is more along the lines of "why would anyone, for anything, rely on YT talking heads as 'accurate data'?"

I mean, I just do not understand why people think random, loud players that live for clicks would have any magical knowledge any other player does not have already.

Why does anyone invest anything into these talking heads?

The funny part is that these overhyped youtubers usually know less about the game even after years of playing than some newb who's been playing for less than 15 hours.

I mean, really. I've seen people with like 10 hours of playtime who could answer more questions about the game than these clickbait content creators.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

Just now, o0Despair0o said:

The funny part is that these overhyped youtubers usually know less about the game even after years of playing than some newb who's been playing for less than 15 hours.

I mean, really. I've seen people with like 10 hours of playtime who could answer more questions about the game than these clickbait content creators.

I've noticed a lot of them only play warframe on the side from other games and usually they're very guessy on how stuff in game works

[o0Despair0o]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

I've noticed a lot of them only play warframe on the side from other games and usually they're very guessy on how stuff in game works

And yet their channels are basically entirely Warframe related.

Goes to show how much DE cares for actual feedback from actual players. Their content creators don't even play the game a whole lot.

[Aesthier]

On 2021-03-02 at 5:21 PM, o0Despair0o said:

Their content creators don't even play the game a whole lot.

In the case of game reviewers on youtube I have always felt the title of "content creator" is a misnomer.

They don't create content they simply review content created by someone else through the lens of their own bias.

 

Just because you have a camera, a mic, and a "friend" in the company doesn't make you an expert in game balance and development.

To bad DE never understood this.

 

If a player is truly serious about improving the game they should drop their epiphany in the suggestion forums like the rest of the community.

[Soy77]

On 2021-03-03 at 1:13 AM, Zimzala said:

"why would anyone, for anything, rely on YT talking heads as 'accurate data'?"

 

I come from another GaaS that 100% relies on content creators to get feedbacks.

the main idea is: content creators interacts more closely with players, than the developers. Therefore they should know better about what's happening on the communities and what they want.

It's like how sony nintendo or ms used to ask gamestop about the console sales. Because they're too far above to personally see what's happening on the streets.

It's actually the normal norm and would still be a great idea if you're, like... Capcom. Or squareenix. Which i imagine would have hard time going all the way down to the forums and see what people are talking about. But DE still have employees that lurks in the forums, they should've just come to these people for even more accurate inputs.

But well... probably the forums has become to toxic for any DE staff to set foot on. I'd be heartbroken myself if i work that hard on a game and have to read all the threads insulting my work every day.

[Zimzala]

5 hours ago, Soy77 said:

I come from another GaaS that 100% relies on content creators to get feedbacks.

the main idea is: content creators interacts more closely with players, than the developers. Therefore they should know better about what's happening on the communities and what they want.

It's like how sony nintendo or ms used to ask gamestop about the console sales. Because they're too far above to personally see what's happening on the streets.

It's actually the normal norm and would still be a great idea if you're, like... Capcom. Or squareenix. Which i imagine would have hard time going all the way down to the forums and see what people are talking about. But DE still have employees that lurks in the forums, they should've just come to these people for even more accurate inputs.

But well... probably the forums has become to toxic for any DE staff to set foot on. I'd be heartbroken myself if i work that hard on a game and have to read all the threads insulting my work every day.

Again, from my POV, why would any company, DE, GE, Google, relay on hearsay?

That's all that the stream of words is from YT talking heads, hearsay, from players that other players like to watch play a game.

IMO, it's like asking a comedian to interject on how to fix something just because they made a popular joke about it.

I am just not enough of an extrovert to think the peoples opinions mean much at all, without looking at far more real data.

IMO, there are just too many humans that think because a talking head said a thing, that makes it 'true'.

If DE, or any company, uses a select group they trust as a QA department, that's all fine and dandy, that's their plan. IMO, the community seems to think since a YT talking head was mentioned, then DE has given up its ability to make decisions and now that talking head is calling the shots. It's the same over-reaction that these forums love to set fire about from my POV.

I totally agree DE and other games makers are really, really dedicated to continue to produce entertainment for such a fickle group of people.

[Soy77]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

Again, from my POV, why would any company, DE, GE, Google, relay on hearsay?

That's all that the stream of words is from YT talking heads, hearsay, from players that other players like to watch play a game.

IMO, it's like asking a comedian to interject on how to fix something just because they made a popular joke about it.

I am just not enough of an extrovert to think the peoples opinions mean much at all, without looking at far more real data.

IMO, there are just too many humans that think because a talking head said a thing, that makes it 'true'.

If DE, or any company, uses a select group they trust as a QA department, that's all fine and dandy, that's their plan. IMO, the community seems to think since a YT talking head was mentioned, then DE has given up its ability to make decisions and now that talking head is calling the shots. It's the same over-reaction that these forums love to set fire about from my POV.

I totally agree DE and other games makers are really, really dedicated to continue to produce entertainment for such a fickle group of people.

as sad as it is, our world probably revolves on "hearsay" and opinions, even when data is used as the basis.

like... let's say data shows that melee are used way more than guns.
data can show which weapons are used more, and how much. but data doesn't know when the difference is too much. it'll be up to game devs to decide when is too much and make changes.
also, just because a weapon is used more, how people want to interpret that information is still totally open for discussion. is it because the weapon is really powerful? or is it really fun to play? or all the other weapons just suck? it can be really suck to play but it's too powerful to ignore so people are forced to use it against their will. data can never show these kind of information unless every companies are willing to go the extra miles with their data collection, like doing surveys, and so on.

at the end of the day, some dudes and dudettes on a meeting decides what the data means. it might be a professional opinion that are based on their experience on the field, but it's still an opinion.

 

i worked at a massive oil and gas company once. you'll probably die from disappointment if you see how meetings with nation-wide consequences went there.
since then i have accepted that our world is probably run by people who don't know what they're doing.

[Zimzala]

19 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

i worked at a massive oil and gas company once. you'll probably die from disappointment if you see how meetings with nation-wide consequences went there.
since then i have accepted that our world is probably run by people who don't know what they're doing.

I have been in those meetings, I sell software to people 'running the world' these days, it is horrifying.

Does not mean we have to roll over and accept it, we can still call it out for what it is and recognize reality.

IMO, this thread is started with the idea that DE has given their agency over to a YT talking head, when said YT talking head was just mentioned for the POV.

IMO, the idea being promoted here is that YT talking heads now 'run the company', that is the OTT 'idea', IMO, presented here.

DE has the data, they will likely use that data, in addition to the feedback from players, including YT talking heads, IMO.

But to think DE is relying totally on nothing more than hearsay from a specific YT talking head to make the current changes is not a realistic outlook, IMO, and disingenuous to imply.

So sure, at some point humans make choices based on both hearsay and data, but do posters here really think the YT personalities are running the show? That's what many seem to think from my POV, not to mention the OTT level of drama over the perceived changes, based on the 'telephone game' from what people think DE said on the stream.