The so called Third Orb Trial, please do not lock out solo players.

[DrivaMain]

I am pretty nervous that you mentioned the Third Orb will feature a trial like structure, but I am begging you to not lock out solo players from experiencing this content.

There was a reason why trials have a such lower player count, this is one of them. 
 

Let the boss be solo-able.

Edit : I have proposed a middle ground to both sides of the argument.

Just now, DrivaMain said:

I think the middle ground is make the trial difficulty and reward chance or amount scale by the amount of players. I should probably add this to the OP. At least this will keep both sides somewhat happy.

[VisionAndVoice]

Why are you so scared of interacting with your fellow players?

[DrivaMain]

2 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Why are you so scared of interacting with your fellow players?

You got to understand that sometime players want some “me time” playing alone. Sure I can form a group to complete that trial, but I do not want to be forced to do that every time to experience this content.

Old Trials have one a major flaw and that is forced co-operation.  It is why old trials are hated by many. Based on DE stats on 2017 only 0.34% of players actually played Trials.

[Danielw8]

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

You got to understand that sometime players want some “me time” playing alone. Sure I can form a group to complete that trial, but I do not want to be forced to do that every time to experience this content.

Old Trials have one a major flaw and that is forced co-operation.  It is why old trials are hated by many. Based on DE stats on 2017 only 0.34% of players actually played Trials.

you have the whole videogame for that

[VisionAndVoice]

 

3 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Old Trials have one a major flaw and that is forced co-operation.  It is why old trials are hated by many.

You don't need to tell me about trials, I was there to see them with my own eyes. Trials had flaws, and "forced cooperation" was far from the real one. Don't project your views on everyone else.

 

3 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

You got to understand that sometime players want some “me time” playing alone. Sure I can form a group to complete that trial, but I do not want to be forced to do that every time to experience this content.

You've got the whole rest of the game for your "me time".

[DrivaMain]

Just now, VisionAndVoice said:

 

You don't need to tell me about trials, I was there to see them with my own eyes. Trials had flaws, and "forced cooperation" was far from the real one. Don't project your views on everyone else.

 

You've got the whole rest of the game for your "me time".

So you’re statement basically “No group, no fun. Screw off”. Looks like we agree to disagree.

[Bakaguya-sama]

For god's sake.   

We have built an entire game to cater to solo players already. To the point where Warframe might as well lose it's Co-op label because virtually every piece of content can be solo'd.  At this point, you are not cooperating with other players. You are competing with them for something to do. It goes beyond comparing damage/kill counts. It about having nothing to do in a video game other than aimlessly bullet dashing around finding 1 alive enemy to hit.  

What if DE make contents for people who want to play a coordinated team game for once. The kind of content that takes all 4 players contributing to complete successfully or within a reasonable timeframe. We haven't had anything like that since Eidolon was released years ago (as a replacement for raids mind you).   

How about a compromise: Whatever special items that drops from the 3rd Orb will be tradable. Just like how Eidolon dropped Arcanes are tradable. This way DE can design actual co-op content. And players who don't want to play co-op can just buy the stuff from players who do. Using the plat from farming relics or whatever.  

[PhiThagRaid]

39 minutes ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

We have built an entire game to cater to solo players already.

Yep, don't get the demand to make everything soloable in an online co-op game...

[sunderthefirmament]

2 hours ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Why are you so scared of interacting with your fellow players?

Because it feels like most of my time in sorties is spent waiting at a friendship door for the randos to catch up.

 

I am really not looking forward to forced coordination, if that's what trials/raids are.  My day job involves (figuratively) herding cats.  Why would I want to do that in a game I play to unwind?

 

Firm pass on forced coordination.  I've played enough MMO's with people shrieking at each other about a botched cooldown or misused ability to last me a lifetime.

[rapt0rman]

Well, for one thing there's pretty much a guarantee that it won't be made for/balanced around 8 players... and as long as there's not an embarrassingly out of place pressure plate puzzle like in LoR, then you'll likely be able to solo it.

[Voltage]

Forced co-op content is very much missing from Warframe, and it's really hurting the clan scene as well as Discord voice chat activity. It would make the game so much more lively and engaging to require people to squad up and really encourage proper teamwork. "Solo with bodies" is what Warframe has become, and this really hurts the game as a whole when there is nothing really co-op in the game.

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

For god's sake.   

We have built an entire game to cater to solo players already. To the point where Warframe might as well lose it's Co-op label because virtually every piece of content can be solo'd.  At this point, you are not cooperating with other players. You are competing with them for something to do. It goes beyond comparing damage/kill counts. It about having nothing to do in a video game other than aimlessly bullet dashing around finding 1 alive enemy to hit.  

What if DE make contents for people who want to play a coordinated team game for once. The kind of content that takes all 4 players contributing to complete successfully or within a reasonable timeframe. We haven't had anything like that since Eidolon was released years ago (as a replacement for raids mind you).   

How about a compromise: Whatever special items that drops from the 3rd Orb will be tradable. Just like how Eidolon dropped Arcanes are tradable. This way DE can design actual co-op content. And players who don't want to play co-op can just buy the stuff from players who do. Using the plat from farming relics or whatever.  

Who said you can’t CO-OP? Even if the game is solo-able that doesn’t mean this game will lose the CO-OP label.
 

You have to realize that solo players are a large part of this player base. We can use that stat back in 2017 as a good example. What makes Warframe unique is the sheer amount of options this game provides. The old trials are against this.

What we want is options. Players who want to do this “Raid” with friends can do so, players who want to do this alone can do so.

Also people already solo 6 Hydrolyst in one night already.

[Voltage]

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

Who said you can’t CO-OP? Even if the game is solo-able that doesn’t mean this game will lose the CO-OP label.

If content has solo players in mind, it is trivial for a team. See: Orbs, Eidolons, planet bosses, and Railjack.

Forced co-op would empower DE to really consider how to shape a gamemode around a team of players and encourage participation and communication to climb the barrier of the mode's objectives. Railjack 2018 Demo showed this, but Railjack launch showed what happens when solo is considered if I am going to be quite honest.

[quxier]

40 minutes ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

For god's sake.   

We have built an entire game to cater to solo players already. To the point where Warframe might as well lose it's Co-op label because virtually every piece of content can be solo'd.  At this point, you are not cooperating with other players. You are competing with them for something to do. It goes beyond comparing damage/kill counts. It about having nothing to do in a video game other than aimlessly bullet dashing around finding 1 alive enemy to hit.  

What if DE make contents for people who want to play a coordinated team game for once. The kind of content that takes all 4 players contributing to complete successfully or within a reasonable timeframe. We haven't had anything like that since Eidolon was released years ago (as a replacement for raids mind you).   

How about a compromise: Whatever special items that drops from the 3rd Orb will be tradable. Just like how Eidolon dropped Arcanes are tradable. This way DE can design actual co-op content. And players who don't want to play co-op can just buy the stuff from players who do. Using the plat from farming relics or whatever.  

Was this game co-op only or at least huge some parts? Haven't been playing Eidelons (tried it few times but haven't killed it afair) nor Raids but other content were Soloable. What stops you were not lack of team but lack of gear.

So isn't it wrong to demand co-op only content when game were only "co-op friendly"? I think it's reasonable to "demand" solo-able content.

I think they could do both. The bigger your team is the more complex mission would be.

And trading is ok... till the prices gets bigger. Prices may be huge "just because" content is locked with co-op or other silly stuffs.

[DrivaMain]

10 minutes ago, Voltage said:

If content has solo players in mind, it is trivial for a team. See: Orbs, Eidolons, planet bosses, and Railjack.

Forced co-op would empower DE to really consider how to shape a gamemode around a team of players and encourage participation and communication to climb the barrier of the mode's objectives. Railjack 2018 Demo showed this, but Railjack launch showed what happens when solo is considered if I am going to be quite honest.

I think the middle ground is make the trial difficulty and rewards in amount or drop chance scale by the amount of players. I should probably add this to the OP. At least this will keep both sides somewhat happy.

I leave out reward uniqueness so solo and team can have a chance for the new shiny

[Kaotyke]

2 hours ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Why are you so scared of interacting with your fellow players?

Social! Distancing!

[Voltage]

7 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

I think the middle ground is make the trial difficulty and rewards in amount or drop chance scale by the amount of players. I should probably add this to the OP. At least this will keep both sides somewhat happy.

I leave out reward uniqueness so solo and team can have a chance for the new shiny

Still disagree. I think it's healthy to lock some select rewards behind team-based victory/completion.

[RobWasHere]

Profit Taker is unbearable experience when you are not a host most of the time so I sympathize with OP, but if its gonna be co-op only then fine. Gonna be pity if Savagoth will be locked behind the fight though.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Old Trials have one a major flaw and that is forced co-operation.  It is why old trials are hated by many. Based on DE stats on 2017 only 0.34% of players actually played Trials.

That was not why they had such big problems. Trials died for two reasons, neither of which was "they couldn't be done solo"

1. Constant bugs. Every single patch broke something, and it was quite often a progression stopper. I filled up two pages in a word doc of Jordas Verdict progression stoppers alone, and that was just the ones that made it to patch notes. Combined with spotty p2p connection and it was recipe for frustration

2. Co-op was fine with players, but they were seen as too esoteric, too insulated from the rest of the game. You would go in, solve these two puzzles that appeared nowhere else in the game, and then just know the solution for next time. You were either in a "Raid school bus" being babied along, or in a speedrun group demanding you had optimized gear, one step removed from the "50 dkp minus" raid teams of WoW

[NekroArts]

1 minute ago, RobWasHere said:

Gonna be pity if Savagoth will be locked behind the fight though.

He's being release with with the Call of the Tempestarii. In the devstream the Third Orb Mother being made into a Trial is on concept/paper.

[PhiThagRaid]

3 minutes ago, RobWasHere said:

Gonna be pity if Savagoth will be locked behind the fight though.

Pretty sure he wont be. Based on the info they've given Savagoth is due to release with Call of the Tempistari, but the fight is not close to done yet. CotT is also more RJ focused which as far as they've talked about the third orb(which is to say basically nothing other than mention it will be more trial-like) they don't sound linked at all.

[PhiThagRaid]

1 minute ago, NekroArts said:

He's being release with with the Call of the Tempestarii. In the devstream the Third Orb Mother being made into a Trial is on concept/paper.

Beat me to it. 

[Voltage]

3 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

That was not why they had such big problems. Trials died for two reasons, neither of which was "they couldn't be done solo"

1. Constant bugs. Every single patch broke something, and it was quite often a progression stopper. I filled up two pages in a word doc of Jordas Verdict progression stoppers alone, and that was just the ones that made it to patch notes. Combined with spotty p2p connection and it was recipe for frustration

2. Co-op was fine with players, but they were seen as too esoteric, too insulated from the rest of the game. You would go in, solve these two puzzles that appeared nowhere else in the game, and then just know the solution for next time. You were either in a "Raid school bus" being babied along, or in a speedrun group demanding you had optimized gear, one step removed from the "50 dkp minus" raid teams of WoW

I just think its return on investment. Talking about bugs being the downside of a gamemode applies to the entirety of the game. Railjack, Open World, etc. Truth is, the updates that aren't Trials has DE put all their eggs in one basket and they also see a return on that investment as a business. Trials weren't the kind of return that PoE or Deimos provides because it's content catered to players that aren't the majority of their catered playerbase. DE needs to take a risk for veterans/older players/higher geared players if I am going to be honest. The game is so dry and caters too hard to a very low bar (Helminth, Railjack revised, Warframe revised, etc) that it drives invested players away over time as it just devalues progression and has no encouragement to be a better player.

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

I just think its return on investment. Talking about bugs being the downside of a gamemode applies to the entirety of the game. Railjack, Open World, etc. Truth is, the updates that aren't Trials has DE put all their eggs in one basket and they also see a return on that investment as a business. Trials weren't the kind of return that PoE or Deimos provides because it's content catered to players that aren't the majority of their catered playerbase. DE needs to take a risk for veterans/older players/higher geared players if I am going to be honest. The game is so dry and caters too hard to a very low bar (Helminth, Railjack revised, Warframe revised, etc) that it drives invested players away over time as it just devalues progression and has no encouragement to be a better player.

Too true. Why even grind for stuff like arcanes or max your focus when you don't need to? 

I'm way behind on stuff like that, and I still find all content the game offers trivial if I mod for it properly before mission. 

Why should I super grind hard to catch up to others on arcanes and everything else I am undegeared on, when I can do any content in the game no problem without it? 

[TARINunit9]

3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I just think its return on investment. Talking about bugs being the downside of a gamemode applies to the entirety of the game. Railjack, Open World, etc. Truth is, the updates that aren't Trials has DE put all their eggs in one basket and they also see a return on that investment as a business. Trials weren't the kind of return that PoE or Deimos provides because it's content catered to players that aren't the majority of their catered playerbase. DE needs to take a risk for veterans/older players/higher geared players if I am going to be honest. The game is so dry and caters too hard to a very low bar (Helminth, Railjack revised, Warframe revised, etc) that it drives invested players away over time as it just devalues progression and has no encouragement to be a better player.

Which I can agree with, but is completely separate from the point I was making

Yes, there probably is a way to bring Trials back, with fewer bugs, that makes veterans happy. But OP was just complaining that they were co-op only with no solo option, and thus automatically bad and irredeemable