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Will slowing melee attack speed change anything?


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The question come into my mind right after they talk about it. And as a 5000+ hours player and experience with trends in the so called "meta melee mods". I don't think slow down melee will do anything good.

A preferred attack speed plays a critical role in how much "fun" the player can have from melee game play. Sometimes just a bit faster or a bit slower can change everything. You can fine situations where being too fast make your hard to execute combos (polearms & staffs, mostly). And situation where you just desperately hope you can attack a bit faster.

The players should have the right to choose how fast they want their melee weapon to attack. Isn't that what Mod system suppose to do? We have a range of melee attack speed mods providing buffs from 30% to 75%, how hard can it be to find one you like? If you don't want to have visual seizure every time your melee weapon attack, then just mod for slower speed or perhaps darker energy color.

As for balance between guns and melee. At this current stage, most players who has the attitude to min max everything only put 1 attack speed mod in their melee build, sometimes even no attack speed mod and outsource that problem to arcane or warframe ability. So that they have the mod slots to put on both Condition Overload, Weeping Wounds and Organ Shatter.

Which means, slowing down melee attack speed won't change any of the current meta but only taking away the fun for players who prefer fast attacks at cost of some damage potential. I know a friend who spent 2600 plat searching for a Nikana Riven (0.55 dispo by the way) just so that he does not need to relies on Berserker and has ~0.2 faster attack speed. For players who invested and prefer fast pace melee combat, their choice will be taken away and there is a high possibility they will quit. As the gameplay is less enjoyable for them.

In conclusion, nerf attack speed is not going to do anything useful. It would only take away some players' fun and make them rage quit, while other nearly unaffected.

New players? New players are interested in cool stuff and content, if they got into the game after the nerf. They will not experience the change and expect it as normal. They won't be affected so much.

It's understandable to nerf melee's damage, even by nerf Condition Overload. As it's arguably necessary to bring guns' performance up to the same level of melee, given the nature of this game is a horde shooter which you are faced by multiple enemies all the time. However, nerf melee attack speed impact the game play much much bigger than just less damage. Melee is such an icon in warframe, even shown heavily in the advertisement. Please consider carefully before the nerf.

Guns are fun, I love guns and enjoy head hunting but not just mindlessly spam explosive weapons. I even did Saryn solo Steel Path survival 90mins mainly using Cernos Prime actively looking for headshots. What they lack is the scaling system like Melee combo has.

So, why don't simply add a scaling system to guns just like melee? We already have Sniper Combo Multiplier, a similar system with some tweaks could make many guns perform much better if used carefully. And mods could be developed around the combo system to further shape the gun meta. For example, fast firing automatic rifle need confirmed kill or hit weak spot in order to increase the combo number.

Edited by ICA-970326-47
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lowering Attack Speed would certainly do something, it would make some Melee Weapons more tedious or "bad feeling" to use.
the only Melee Weapon Stat that is subjective, varying amounts of it being "needed" for a Weapon to feel good to someone.

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3分钟前 , taiiat 说:

lowering Attack Speed would certainly do something, it would make some Melee Weapons more tedious or "bad feeling" to use.
the only Melee Weapon Stat that is subjective, varying amounts of it being "needed" for a Weapon to feel good to someone.

Exactly my point. You want fast, you mod fast, you want slow, you mod slow. The true elephant in the room is that guns need a scaling system.

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Ranged weapons are being buffed. The limiting of attack speed isn't even really for a balance reason, but for artistic purpose. Their complaint was high attack speed doesn't let you see anything and you just hear noise; as if that's a valid complaint when that's literally all guns are, a bunch of noise.

Also, DE generally likes to nerf things by making them feel bad to use, and if they lower attackspeed outside of mod stacking, that's a way to do it.

The main nerf to melee is removing stance specific cc effects. Which isn't going to do much when everything dies in 1 hit for 99.9% of the player base, and threatening enemies already can't be cced by melee, or are immune to any melee that isn't gunblades. Then there's stealth to take into account, which is often abused by these people complaining how strong melee is, removing cc from it doesn't do much when enemies won't be hitting you anyways.

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1分钟前 , fo3nixz 说:

the attack speed nerf will influence your dps

The developers have talked about nerf attack speeds via limit how players can stack attack speed mods. Which in other word, is taken away player's freedom to make a build that feels best for them.

Dps drop? If the nerf is on on how players can stack the speeds, then current dps meta (0~1 attack speed mod) is unaffected. I only affect players who already willing to exchange damage to put more speed mod in their build by make their life worse...less damage and worse feeling.

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6 minutes ago, taiiat said:

lowering Attack Speed would certainly do something, it would make some Melee Weapons more tedious or "bad feeling" to use.
the only Melee Weapon Stat that is subjective, varying amounts of it being "needed" for a Weapon to feel good to someone.

I think lowering overall will be a bad thing. I don't think they will do that, more like make a hard cap on the top attack speed of every melee.
If they lower the speed overall some weapons will become absolutely unusable(karyst prime for example, 0.6 attack speed ...if it becomes even lower than this ),

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2分钟前 , Yamazuki 说:

Ranged weapons are being buffed. The limiting of attack speed isn't even really for a balance reason, but for artistic purpose. Their complaint was high attack speed doesn't let you see anything and you just hear noise; as if that's a valid complaint when that's literally all guns are, a bunch of noise.

Also, DE generally likes to nerf things by making them feel bad to use, and if they lower attackspeed outside of mod stacking, that's a way to do it.

The main nerf to melee is removing stance specific cc effects. Which isn't going to do much when everything dies in 1 hit for 99.9% of the player base, and threatening enemies already can't be cced by melee, or are immune to any melee that isn't gunblades. Then there's stealth to take into account, which is often abused by these people complaining how strong melee is, removing cc from it doesn't do much when enemies won't be hitting you anyways.

Thanks for your reply and you are correct.

The issue I discussed is that, regardless of balance as current melee meta won't be affected so much. Slower speed could make some players feel less 'fun' when using melee. Because "able to see melee move clearly" may not be important for everyone. Someone may just like their sword being lighting fast. And the CC nerf was never that much of a concern, we have other ways to deal with that.

However, DE has the right to do anything they want. Guess we just have to sit and work around the changes as always.

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19 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

I believe this move is to counter melee binds like scroll wheel to abuse the attack speed. I have seen many players use it to blender through the map.

and like usual, the 'solution' to that is almost equivalent to banning Electricity because of some of Electricity being questionable for the Environment.

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For me it is obvious what they want to achieve. At the moment you just hit your melee macro and cut through everything effortlessly, because a) everything dies in 0,0001 seconds and b) if it takes a bit to kill, melee attacks stagger and CC the enemy heavily.

They are taking away the staggers from normal hits and lower attacks speed, so that melee stances and special combos are our way to stagger and CC enemies via melee. You can't do melee combos if you are at 6300% attack speed.

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Personally, I would actually appreciate melee weapons being slowed down a bit.  At present in Warframe, if you aren't modding your weapon to attack faster, you are losing DPS.  Which means that most melee weapons require constant mashing of the attack button to use if you want to keep doing combos.  I think it would add to the diversity of Warframe if weapons actually had different attack speeds that were meaningful, if there were slow weapons that were hard-hitting, etc.  But currently there are two types of melee weapon in Warframe: the kind that require constant mashing and the kind that require constantly mashing even faster.

Ultimately, the older I get, the less my joints can take that kind of constant mashing.  This is the kind of thing that every gamer will experience eventually, and it would be nice if we could all still play games like these as our bodies start to wear down.  To be transparent, I'll also say that this is far from the only solution to the melee mashing problem.  But it's one of them, and it does have the added bonus of potentially creating some melee diversity.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb ICA-970326-47:

Dps drop? If the nerf is on on how players can stack the speeds, then current dps meta (0~1 attack speed mod) is unaffected. I only affect players who already willing to exchange damage to put more speed mod in their build by make their life worse...less damage and worse feeling.

If you think nerfing attack speed doesn't affect DPS, then you don't know what DPS means.

 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb ICA-970326-47:

Which means, slowing down melee attack speed won't change any of the current meta but only taking away the fun for players who prefer fast attacks at cost of some damage potential. I know a friend who spent 2600 plat searching for a Nikana Riven (0.55 dispo by the way) just so that he does not need to relies on Berserker and has ~0.2 faster attack speed.

Spend 2600plat on a Riven to get max attack speed, then don't use Berserker. Big brain modding right there.

Edited by Krankbert
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It won't affect me at all likely, I don't multi stack speed mods, if I want faster melee I play Gauss or Wisp.  I don't need to cheat the system to be good, and it seems like all they'll be doing is making things a little more fair, which is the way it should be.

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For an idea of what this might be like, take off attack speed mods. 

There are 3 ways they can do this.

A) Lower the speed on mods

B) Lower the base speed of each weapon

or

C) A mix of both

 

Personally i hope they do (B), this would allow the test clusters to more thoroughly test and get a feel for how each weapon is going to be like. But knowing how lazy DE can be (despite parvo's granum's "fortune despises the idle") DE is far more likely to go with (A) and call it done. I severely hope that does not happen, that would far more likely kill melee, leaving guns stronger, giving us the same problem but on the other side.

 

Edit:

Regardless of what they do though, they can't just slow down melee, they would need to make melee look and feel more dynamic when that slow, as personally for me, i make my weapons speed based on how fast i feel it should be.

Edited by Joezone619
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I think it will be a good thing. Will certain weapons and builds now become less efficient or even tedious? Yes. And while I can't and won't say that that was the goal for DE, I will say it is the only viable method of knocking melee down a peg or two in the overall scheme short of a full rework of everything. 

Melee is broken. This change is at best a the smallest whiff of a bandaid. But at least it is getting some attention. 

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by itself, it probably won't be doing much more than making the usual "blend the room" tactics take slightly longer. ideally they need to carefully balance each melee type in terms of speed, with Heavy Blades and hammers being the slowest, and fist weapons and daggers being the fastest. the slower the weapon is, the more damage it should deal, so Hammers should be half the speed they are now but deal twice as much damage.

I also think there's gonna need to be some clean-up work needed for some animations: normally we don't see any clipping too badly because the animations are so fast, but I have a feeling certain combos are gonna look janky AF if they're slowed right down.

Edited by (PSN)robotwars7
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13 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

But not enough to make guns anywhere close to melees damage output.

So nerfing melee attack speed does nothing but make melee worse and make guns still meh.

yup , unless they introduce new mods that act like bloodrush/condition overload & weeping wounds but for guns

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Oh yeah... attack speed is how I build up combo fast. It's definitely not follow through. Nope... not follow through on large clumps of enemies with my attack-speed-mod-less Khora stat stick.

Look, a Khora player! This calls for some good old fashion forum outrage about how OP Khora is at abusing melee, melee mods and stat sticks.

No but seriously, I'm using Ensnare and then each *slow* attack builds like 15 combo a swing on that clump.

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