Stealing Eidolon hunter rewards.

[Radu10]

1 minute ago, Danielw8 said:

Im not against having variety ingame, im agaisnt making the content ultra easy, because people are lazy to farm.

The same example its for railjack, rewards are very good, but people dont want farm mods, railjack parts, get ready to do fast runs for railjack, and again rewards are good.

talking  about eidolon hunts in steel path, yes rewards are super bad, and this is why nobody does in steel path. 

Do you actually understeand eidolon hunts have clans, and his own active community its actually the only content in the game where actually people get fun, and also you not feel its a waste of time because rewards are good and the content its core in warframe.

Hey! you dont like eidolons? do you feel its repetitive? you not like the fight? its totally fine! for example in my case to farm 10 energize (maxed in old arcanes mechanic) was something 300 hydrolist cap.  Do you want farm arcanes, make it the same time as eidolons.

And yes you are against that because in your opinion maxed energize should be farmed in hours like SS event.

 

Another one who knows how fast you will get arcanes with new upcoming mode, when you all just assuming and panicking about it.

What if it will be slower? Will those discussions end? Yeah probably 'cause that's the thing that matters anyway...

You forgot raids existed with their own communites as well before eidolons, this cycle is just repeating. And nobody stopped DE from removing them.

And stop talk about how much time needed for an arcane, this topic was about making eidolons more interesting:
OP is SURE after the new update it this will be a dead mode, if it will become dead it actually proves it was dead already if you exclude all people who farmed them endlessly just to get platinum (they should consider other ways to make platinum, why farm eidolons should be the only way?)
But I am sure it will still be ALIVE and probably even funnier, 'cause there are no more 2nd meanings to do it for most people anymore.

This same OP asked specifically for new rewards like it could be the only way to make eidolons more interesting, a really generic request with no specific suggestions.

If you scroll up, other people me included quickly shared some ideas (good or bad they might be) about making them interesting with no need to add new rewards necessarily.

 

[Danielw8]

39 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

Another one who knows how fast you will get arcanes with new upcoming mode, when you all just assuming and panicking about it.

What if it will be slower? Will those discussions end? Yeah probably 'cause that's the thing that matters anyway...

You forgot raids existed with their own communites as well before eidolons, this cycle is just repeating. And nobody stopped DE from removing them.

And stop talk about how much time needed for an arcane, this topic was about making eidolons more interesting:
OP is SURE after the new update it this will be a dead mode, if it will become dead it actually proves it was dead already if you exclude all people who farmed them endlessly just to get platinum (they should consider other ways to make platinum, why farm eidolons should be the only way?)
But I am sure it will still be ALIVE and probably even funnier, 'cause there are no more 2nd meanings to do it for most people anymore.

This same OP asked specifically for new rewards like it could be the only way to make eidolons more interesting, a really generic request with no specific suggestions.

If you scroll up, other people me included quickly shared some ideas (good or bad they might be) about making them interesting with no need to add new rewards necessarily.

 

i think you didnt understeand my whole point. Read again what i said, and yes i have bad english and now im tired

And again my opinion about eidolons its from outside im not a hunter anymore, and final words op its right about hunts in steel path giving terrible rewards.

have a good day

[(PSN)ggh667124]

8 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

6x3s I could understand but 5x3s can be carried by 2 players no sweat using just a 223 amp even, so I would lower the recruitment demands for a 5x3. 5x3 is a casual run for decent hunters.

On console 5x3 is the cap , to be precise 5x3 + 2 . So think of it as 6x3

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

On console 5x3 is the cap , to be precise 5x3 + 2 . So think of it as 6x3

Fair enough. Loading times I take it. On PC I've seen a 5x3 by 2 players while 2 others did Plague star 5 times.

[Radu10]

9 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

i think you didnt understeand my whole point. Read again what i said, and yes i have bad english and now im tired

And again my opinion about eidolons its from outside im not a hunter anymore, and final words op its right about hunts in steel path giving terrible rewards.

have a good day

Ok, but nobody is saying what rewards you want exactly in steel path.

Where are the suggestions? 'Cause new different tradable rewards clearly isn't a valid one!

[Alpha_Tango]

Some of the concerns for the possible fallout of the incoming OV Arcane option are valid. But I can't overlook the fact that Railjack needs this so-called "lifeline" more. 

I feel like DE is swinging wildly with blind hooks and jabs and their back against the ropes already trying to breathe some life to RJ. Messing about with another proverbial ghost town like the Eidolons is but a distraction at this point.

SP Tridolon hunting isa different beast though, it does deserve more Arcane yield per run. Just that the timing to discuss about it isn't right because we have no idea yet how rewards will be dropping on OV.

 

[Radu10]

22 minutes ago, Alpha_Tango said:

Some of the concerns for the possible fallout of the incoming OV Arcane option are valid. But I can't overlook the fact that Railjack needs this so-called "lifeline" more. 

I feel like DE is swinging wildly with blind hooks and jabs and their back against the ropes already trying to breathe some life to RJ. Messing about with another proverbial ghost town like the Eidolons is but a distraction at this point.

SP Tridolon hunting isa different beast though, it does deserve more Arcane yield per run. Just that the timing to discuss about it isn't right because we have no idea yet how rewards will be dropping on OV.

 

Those possible fallouts are mostly just assumptions, and I really believe nobody here can speak for the whole community talking about a problem that maybe will not even exist, it's just too soon talk about this now, so agree with you on that.

[--ZeRo--]

On 2021-03-01 at 4:04 AM, Zeddypanda said:

I'd like to read this announcement! Where can I find it?

Best news I've seen all day, in that case. Orphix Venom is tons of fun, and slightly less buggy than Eidelons.

T'was in the devstream.

 

On 2021-03-02 at 12:18 AM, GEN-Son_17 said:

I think your entire post illustrates why the arcanes moving away from the eidolons is a great idea. No offense but the eidolon groups are WAY too toxic, elitist, plat hungry and discouraging for the arcanes to remain just there. Those groups are the anti-community...literally built to prevent inclusion. DE would be crazy to allow that level of toxic restriction to continue without watering down the need to be subjected to those groups.

Seriously, I had to get on a dude because he decided to chastise a player that didn't have the "correct" setup. That player was just playing Warframe and discovered there were groups who he could team up with to defeat an eidolon he could never defeat. So, imagine a player using recruitment, only to get yelled at because he was excited while another was being greedy. I actually left that team to help him defeat his first eidolon but he said he'll never do that again...and that is a problem.

In essence, diversity the ability to get arcanes and break up that elitist group a bit. Not all are bad but, usually, the bad ones tend to leave first and leave the more fun, inviting groups there to rebuild better. Sorry bro but it's widely known how bad the eidolon hunters can get and DE shouldn't have let it stand for this long.

You've been hanging around all the wrong hunters then, there's toxic elitists in every part of the game. I also don't know of anyone in this game that doesn't want plat.

I've been hunting for a little over a year and i've seen all the toxic people and all the good people, and i can safely say that the good outnumber the toxic. There's entire communities dedicated to teaching eidolons and helping people get better with little toxicity. I find it pretty insulting to be called toxic just because some people that hunt are toxic, when i've gone out of my way to help people whenever i can.

 

On 2021-02-28 at 11:38 PM, (PSN)VKPButcher said:

To you. I actually enjoyed Orphix a fair amount. I actually don't like doing the eidolon thing despite making an effort to at least try it all out with soloing Terry a little bit. Funny how that works, innit? Different strokes n different folks, options are nice. 

What i said was based off my own opinion and the opinions of everyone i talked to during the event(not all of them were hunters). If you liked orphix venom then that's fine and i won't try to change your mind. 

[(PSN)FK2P]

On 2021-03-01 at 9:57 PM, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

Since DE is expanding the accessibility to farming for arcanes . Which in my opinion is great for the game but it also might become the more attractive option . Eidolons should get new rewards to compensate.
 

Eidolons already have a really difficult requirements of entry; especially for the meta/efficient runs . You know 177/777 AMP and Void strike as well as limited frames to play a role . Which causes the community to be really small and with low growth rate . 
 

I think we deserve new rewards especially in the SP version . I think for the steel path the eidolons should have a guaranteed drop of essence that goes in the lines of 1 - 3 - 6 . Must be for captures too . Else it’ll be 1 - 1 - 2 . These should also be effected by boosters so for people like me on console we can basically farm 100 essence in a night from 5x3 with a booster. 
 
This in of itself would be adequate since that requires another layer of entry being clearing entire star chart . So this definitely is an end game . Would really help the hunters get rivens .

In addition I thought maybe we could get exclusive arcanes that would help in eidolons , for example . “Killing a vomvalyst gives 1 sniper shot with 300% cc” stackable to 5 shots . Also it goes on different arcane slot so we can still run 2 of the general arcanes . This is clearly based around the meta of Eidolons being snipers. So it shouldn’t effect the other parts of the game much aside from RJ anomaly’s .

Also  thinking of maybe DE adding 3 new ephemeras that is connected with each of the eidolons . They can have this in 2 ways : profitable or exclusive. Profitable = blueprint drops at low rate but tradable to non eidolon hunters . Exclusive would be a route of making it a milestone reward . 100 captures , 500 captures , 1,000 captures . This is totality so it’s not the hardest feat but still impressive and requires commitment. 

 

Ehh... personally I don’t see it. When eidolons came out it garnered a lot of toxicity and took away a lot of the variation of play styles that raids offered. Crowd control was viable, debuffing was viable, everything had a place, then eidolons came and changed it for the worse, dispite the fact that there were clearly people who adhered to its rigid sniper/bow, self buffer play style, and bothered with amps at all, possibly enjoyed it even, I think it’s amongst the reasons warframe took such a big hit in its mid development cycle, as it struggled to find its feet after it made some difficult decisions on game structure. The abolition of the void greatly disconnected players looking to find relevance in endurance from traditional game modes with prime rewards, the eidolons disconnected arcanes from traditional game modes. These two truths ultimately led to warframes narrowest meta, and its most casual gameplay loop to date. The fissures were seen as low tier gameplay, as opposed to the high tier void where the first endgame was enacted largely by player choice. Eidolons had poorly thought out design decisions like mass AOE rain, limbs that could only be effected by damage abilities that output from your weapons which created an elitism amongst buffers like chroma. Warframes designed to fight factions specifically like Nyx, Banshee, and vauban- who previously all had a place in raids and in endurance farming, plummeted into non-existance. Once upon a time, Nyx had the design space to mind control Vay Hek in L.O.R, those days are over.... For me the sooner this content is buried the better, so that we can return to some consistency, but that’s my opinion. 

[Zebiko]

I didn't realise how horrible the eidolon "community" was. This is why raids were removed. I would be glad if eidolons were removed too.

[Acersecomic]

On 2021-02-26 at 10:16 PM, coot33 said:

I would like to manifest my discontent that is shared by most of the Eidolon hunting community, in that we once again are getting shafted in order to make a boring part of the game feel rewarding. Eidolons are the best boss of the game they fit the mechanically difficult boss fight (one of the question that was asked in the dev stream on bosses) and also requires teamwork to get good results consistently. No solo 6x3 has ever been done yet.

We would have preferred that reward for raijack be new ones instead of the arcanes. The new raijack orphix venom is much less resource intensive than eidolons, Where energy pads and cipher are a must. This means that plat from arcane were funnel directly into booster to farm for nano spore, polymer and ferrite as well as rivens to make some weapon shine. It does not appear to be time gated as well, leading to what is likely a market crash for the price of arcanes and the 5/6x3 eidolons lifestyle to no be longer sustainable.

We find this very unfortunate since, since for most eidolon hunters eidolons are the only thing keeping us playing this game, If 5/6x3 become unsustainable many skilled player will simply leave the game.

Thank you for reading our concerns.

I am not a dedicated Eidolon hunter or anything of the sort but I absolutely agree with you that Arcanes should stay with Eidolons. It's not a ridiculous niche like raids and anyone can participate. Top shelf stuff should be hard to grind, not given around freely.

[Pizzarugi]

I'm okay with Orphix having Eidolon rewards. Eidolon has only a handful of frames that are worth taking (and good luck finding a team with anything else), and most teams want a 6x3 so you better be ready to treat this like a job instead of something fun. Sure you can roll a public team with a slapdash group of randos whose frames will provide little to no help in the hunt, but then you're left doing 1x3 and almost certainly getting no rewards to show for it.

Maybe if Eidolons weren't so restrictive and repetitive, I'd probably care more about their rewards being shared in more fun activities.

[wambo]

how is this thread still going on

delete eidolon and done

[coot33]

Le 03/03/2021 à 04:05, Alpha_Tango a dit :

Some of the concerns for the possible fallout of the incoming OV Arcane option are valid. But I can't overlook the fact that Railjack needs this so-called "lifeline" more. 

I feel like DE is swinging wildly with blind hooks and jabs and their back against the ropes already trying to breathe some life to RJ. Messing about with another proverbial ghost town like the Eidolons is but a distraction at this point.

SP Tridolon hunting isa different beast though, it does deserve more Arcane yield per run. Just that the timing to discuss about it isn't right because we have no idea yet how rewards will be dropping on OV.

 

 

SP eidolon need smarter acolyte spawn so they don't tp you across the map when you are sharding.  The SE drop should follow lure loot and not spawn at the end of the animation under the eidolons. This makes doing 6x3 SP while getting SE a pain. SE rewards should be increased for garry and harry.  SP eidolons are the case study. They are very fun but so is normal 6x3. And you more or less have to sacrifice a 6x3 for a 5x3 or lower as an opportunity cost.  And so nearly no one does them anymore with the novelty gone as people just do normal 6x3. Should the SE drops ever get fixed they would become popular and  get a community of SP hunter. 

Eidolon are the only mechanically challenging fight that requires some teamwork making them about the only late game this game has. Everything around eidolon encourage doing them to get better at them. Yes arcane make you better at eidolons, so do focus shards and so does practices.  Past DE caught lightning in a bottle when designing them. It's a great and immersive boss fight for the late game. It is such a shame for current/future DE to damages what they have build.

Ultimately orphix boredom will get optimized and the same complains about elitism will show up.  Already people were getting flack for using bonewidow and/or not having combat expertise/corrosive projection. This operation could have benefited form the same game design that makes eidolons successful. For example by adding new archwing and necramech arcanes instead. That would have given exclusive rewards that would make you better at this raijack and necramech operation.  Rewards that you could simply trade to hunter bored of that operation for normal warframe arcanes. 

[Zeddypanda]

Thought we could have a look back at this thread! Arise!

Hydrolyst reward looks like this: Arcane Energize: Rare (5.00%)

12 Orphix in veil looks like this: Arcane Energize: Ultra Rate (1.41%)

I think it's safe to say your day job is safe, Eidelon Hunters. Orphix arcane pool is so dilluted that the only reason why someone would do orphixes over Eidelons is because they find it 5 times as fun/5 times less frustrating, because they're gonna have to do it 5 times as often.

[0_The_F00l]

Ah yes ,

This old thread.

I wonder if the hunters are sufficiently relieved to have their careers be safe , albeit with a demotion and pay cut.

 

Also @Zeddypandayou  need to consider the fact that eidolons are active for only a little time (nearly a third) While orphix is available anytime, there are also no meta tactics to get 6 rolls at it in 50 minutes (2 hour 50 minutes considering wait time) , orphix is max 3 in about an hour as the orphix spawn every minute and a half ,assume you can kill it quickly enough.

So 6 potential rolls with relatively high percentage for drops in 2.5 hours.

So 2.4 rolls per hour on meta eidolon runs. With 5% chance for rare on each roll.

So 12 % chance per hour

Or

Or 3.33 rolls per hour on moderate to good orphix runs. With 1.41% chance per roll. So 4.7% chance per hour 

So orphix is not 5x as effective , only 2.55 times as effective.

 

 

Yeah. I like maths. But this is just indicative of time needed. There is of course prep time , transition time and other factors at play.

[Zeddypanda]

12 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Or 3.33 rolls per hour on moderate to good orphix runs. With 1.41% chance per roll. So 4.7% chance per hour 

So orphix is not 5x as effective , only 2.55 times as effective.

Well... It's still running for only 45 minutes instead of 2-3 hours for the same amount of reward.

But indeed, there's no reason to choose! Eidelon Hunters can simply take up part-time jobs orphixing whenever it's daytime. If the threads complaining about orphix spawns are indicative (and persist), it looks like the arcane market is pretty safe regardless.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, Zeddypanda said:

Well... It's still running for only 45 minutes instead of 2-3 hours for the same amount of reward.

But indeed, there's no reason to choose! Eidelon Hunters can simply take up part-time jobs orphixing whenever it's daytime. If the threads complaining about orphix spawns are indicative (and persist), it looks like the arcane market is pretty safe regardless.

Fair point , anyone trying to optimize efficiency would go 45 minutes on eidolons , 90 minutes on orphix ( 15 minutes each for transitions and side objective completion) 

So 6 rolls at 5% in 45 minutes.

and 5 rolls at 1.41% in 90 minutes.

 

[Radu10]

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Fair point , anyone trying to optimize efficiency would go 45 minutes on eidolons , 90 minutes on orphix ( 15 minutes each for transitions and side objective completion) 

So 6 rolls at 5% in 45 minutes.

and 5 rolls at 1.41% in 90 minutes.

 

Actually u can speedrun orphix mission if u spawn kill each orphix.

You can do a full run in like 15 min, maybe even faster if all 4 players camp where they spawn.

Some mod should just close this thread 'cause there's nothing more to say

[0_The_F00l]

9 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

Actually u can speedrun orphix mission if u spawn kill each orphix.

You can do a full run in like 15 min, maybe even faster if all 4 players camp where they spawn.

Some mod should just close this thread 'cause there's nothing more to say

Spawns occur every 1.5 minutes , unless they changed it for the nodes, I haven't gone beyond one rotation . Not sure if they spawn faster later.

12 orphixes for rot c ,

That's 18 minutes.

Even if you do spawn kill you just need to wait until next spawn.

You also have to factor the railjack section of the mission time taken and the increase of the orphix health at higher levels.

[Radu10]

1 minute ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Spawns occur every 1.5 minutes , unless they changed it for the nodes, I haven't gone beyond one rotation . Not sure if they spawn faster later.

12 orphixes for rot c ,

That's 18 minutes.

Even if you do spawn kill you just need to wait until next spawn.

That timer got nerfed if u already killed the previous one, only issue now is that every 12 is an arcane drop and last 12, the 36th, doesn't give an arcane somehow. Hopefully will got fixed.

This way u can get 3 arcanes in 15 minutes during day

[0_The_F00l]

4 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

That timer got nerfed if u already killed the previous one, only issue now is that every 12 is an arcane drop and last 12, the 36th, doesn't give an arcane somehow. Hopefully will got fixed.

This way u can get 3 arcanes in 15 minutes during day

Can you confirm if there is more after 36 or its forcing a completion at 36  ?

Cause then you can only do 3 runs per mission.

And after that you need to start over for the railjack sections which can take 5 to 10 minutes before you can board the capital ship.

In which case the effective time would be almost unchanged or even worse.