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Stealing Eidolon hunter rewards.


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Begginer players for 95% do not engage with eidolons so it is not a focus for DE.

 

The only mistake de did with rj is not putting enough on the content. There are reworking dozens of things that were fine to regain adoption. The failed on the quality and volume of content and they blame the concepts, wich are often pretty right on their side. I think they need to accept they made volumetric mistakes, the rj blunder is not on the conceptor.

I'm bafled that they put orphix venom in RJ. I though the end of the event was the right moment to put it in the recycle bin...

Edited by Galuf
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Galuf:

The only mistake de did with rj is not putting enough on the content.

No. Definitely not. How the progression worked was enough by itself to screw the game mode from the beginning.

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vor 20 Stunden schrieb DrivaMain:

I believe Eidolon Hunt rewards needed a revisit. It is clear that DE wants Orphic to be an alternative to the arcane farming. DE needs to put a new shiny behind Eidolons to keep player interested again. 

and clock down the difficulty. the rewards are just not up to date. if the fights were absolutely easy mode for people without equipment, then devs can justify the strange random.
and in most of the public groups i do all the work. therefore i only play it with people from LFG. but that can't be the solution.

Orphic was therefore good. 2-3 top arcanes were in one hour. I expect something like that from Eidolons ... because something like arcane energize should be standard ... also the other top arcanes.
but with eidolon you can forget it and people sell their stuff from fissures much faster than you can farm lvl 5.

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I don't know if it is wilful misunderstanding but it appear our point wasn't well understood. We are describing two positive feedback loop that make eidolon hunt sustainable where the arcane rewards are factoring in.

For seasoned hunter :
Selling arcane for plat to get booster and rivens. For long eidolon hunt the need for pads and cifer means you will spend some time farming poly, nano and ferrite. Riven makes the hunts fresh by allowing otherwise unusable weapon to shine as they were intended to do. 

For new hunters:
Getting the shards allows them to max the focus nodes. Selling arcane allows them to get equipment prime frame like volt and trinity some meme frame like mirage, zephyr oberon and dare I say chroma now.  As well as the booster for the resources. New players depends on lot on equipment as they need more time to make quick decision and don't do things in the optimal fashion. This is a good loop and one and a necessary one for our community to survive. The progression happens in both the equipment as well as on the skill and knowledge of the new hunter. The solution to lacking something for eidolons hunts be it equipment or practice is more hunting.  This is a good loop and one that is essential for the survival of our community.

With the barrier to entry for eidolon being really high. You pretty much have to finish the base game if not at least most of it. Which is hundred of hours of gameplay. For advanced hunts you need to get fortuna and little duck to rank5 plus do arbitrationa for some mods.  The good rewards is what attracts many new people to eidolon where they will put up the grind necessary to get into them. This is one of our biggest concern is that new players will no longer join our community. Veteran players take breaks, not all of them are playing warframe the career. Without new players veteran will no be able to find squads. This will lead to what we fear is a negative feedback loop for our community. That our number will simply dwindle until we die.

This is not the conclave medallion debacle. It is not the barrier to entry that is affected but the rewards. If DE made focus easier to farm we are all for it, if DE made rank 5 vox solaris in Fortuna easier to get we are all for it. DE periodically unvaulting volt prime with Baro is really great.  If volt prime was at loki prime cost, we would not have as much new hunters. The change of the rewards structure affects new hunters much more than veterans. Without a good influx of new hunters our community will die.

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, coot33 said:

I would like to manifest my discontent that is shared by most of the Eidolon hunting community, in that we once again are getting shafted in order to make a boring part of the game feel rewarding. Eidolons are the best boss of the game they fit the mechanically difficult boss fight (one of the question that was asked in the dev stream on bosses) and also requires teamwork to get good results consistently. No solo 6x3 has ever been done yet.

We would have preferred that reward for raijack be new ones instead of the arcanes. The new raijack orphix venom is much less resource intensive than eidolons, Where energy pads and cipher are a must. This means that plat from arcane were funnel directly into booster to farm for nano spore, polymer and ferrite as well as rivens to make some weapon shine. It does not appear to be time gated as well, leading to what is likely a market crash for the price of arcanes and the 5/6x3 eidolons lifestyle to no be longer sustainable.

We find this very unfortunate since, since for most eidolon hunters eidolons are the only thing keeping us playing this game, If 5/6x3 become unsustainable many skilled player will simply leave the game.

Thank you for reading our concerns.

As someone that hates  Eidolons ( solo player )  I love that I can earn arcanes this way. .  It's not like you can't earn them by still hunting Eidolons..  just means the plat market will take a hit.  Which is what the Eidolon hunters are realy crying about. .  

DE have to make railjack rewarding,  cause if the railjack update fails.  That's over 2 years hard work down the drain. ...

 

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vor 12 Minuten schrieb coot33:

I don't know if it is wilful misunderstanding but it appear our point wasn't well understood. We are describing two positive feedback loop that make eidolon hunt sustainable where the arcane rewards are factoring in.

I think people understand you quite well. It's just that people aren't willing to hold back what they perceive as a positive change for everyone to facilitate recruitment for your niche community. Your colleagues openly whining about losing their steady income stream and - and this is a quote - "millions of plat" also makes your complaints about sustaining pads and ciphers seem disingenious.

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vor 15 Minuten schrieb coot33:

And many non hunter thinks were are bunch a toxic elitist and that we deserve to stop existing. They are in fact rejoicing that we will leave the game. That no new hunter will join our community.

So? Why should I care? If people aren't willing to hold back what they perceive as a positive change to support your niche community, they're certainly not going to be willing to hold back that change to spite your enemies.

vor 15 Minuten schrieb coot33:

Makes them look up at an alternatives seem disingenious.

I don't know what that means.

vor 15 Minuten schrieb coot33:

There is plenty of other plat making ways in this game. If you don't want to hunt, farm relics, or farm syndicate. Vaulted relics are a better way to make plat than eidolons. Hunters need plenty of stuff you can farm for them while  you need arcane. It's an easy trade.

I'm sorry, do you think this is motivated by jealousy or intended as a nerf to your plat-making? I brought this up because you're going on about the problem of Eidolon hunting being "self-sustaining" because you need so many boosters to build so many ciphers and energy pads, trying to paint yourself as some poor guy who's doing it for the fun and is barely breaking even, while in the same thread your colleagues are talking about losing their revenue stream and the "millions of plat" (again, this is a quote). One of you is being dishonest, and somehow I think it's not the guys who think they're raking in the plat now.

Edited by Krankbert
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16 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Anyone in any given community, or sub-community, can be toxic.

Either way, I don't see why it matters that arcanes lost value. Just about everything in this game gets to a point they're low in plat value. Something easy to get like drift mods at one point was free plat income, but they're worthless due Nightwave. Veiled Rivens of some weapon types sold for a fair amount anytime you got them, but now they're barely worth anything due to alerts etc. Completed Rivens so far are the only relevant item that DE hasn't gone out of their way to devalue plat wise. No one really cared any other time, so why are arcanes a special case? If you didn't complain about DE devaluing other activities, don't expect people to do so for you.

Did you read anything the Eidolon hunters have said in this forum post at all?  If so, then why are you not responding to specific things said?

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Eidolons already have unique and rewarding drops. They are the only source of brilliant shards, which are needed for Focus, and if you can do them efficiently are the best Focus farm available. They are also the exclusive source of Riven Transmuters.

You're just upset because there won't be any tradeable unique rewards left. Which is a good thing. IMO, nothing tradable should come from one place. It's why I want there to be more, and faster, riven sources. It's why I like that almost every mod drops from multiple places, and the same goes for relics. Whenever the Third Orb 'raid' gets added, I hope that it too is not an exclusive source for anything. The best/fastest/easiest/most efficient source, perhaps, but not the only source.

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6 hours ago, coot33 said:

Riven makes the hunts fresh by allowing otherwise unusable weapon to shine as they were intended to do.

Rivens arent necessary for hunts.A rubico prime/lanka with a good radiation crit build along with the harrow buff is easily enough for even a 6x3,Why do you want to use other weapons when the ones you have are more than enough?

 

6 hours ago, coot33 said:

Getting the shards allows them to max the focus nodes. Selling arcane allows them to get equipment prime frame like volt and trinity some meme frame like mirage, zephyr oberon and dare I say chroma now.  As well as the booster for the resources.

If they want focus,they will do the hunts.But if they want arcanes they can do the hunt or do something else which does need equipment,OV (like eidolons) was only efficient if you had proper equipment,like your own mech with 5 forma and a good build along with a decent fluctus.The fluctus might be cheap for just 30p,but the mech isnt. You either buy if for 300+ from the market or you buy it for a similar but somewhat lower price from the players,get R2 with necraloid and build it,Also note that to build it yourself you need to have done all 3 open worlds for a decent amount of time,so there is a bar for entry but not as high as eidolons,which is good.
As for the boosters,they arent necessary. A lot of players farm resources without boosters.It will take time,but you do need something to do during day time in PoE instead of just sitting in trade chat 
 

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On 2021-02-26 at 8:10 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

If you've had all this time to sell 1k plat arcanes, what's the big deal? Shouldn't you have plat stocked up? Did you waste all your plat? Maybe save some plat this time around before the prices drop and stop relying on gouging people.

The second DE announced that arcanes will be obtainable through orphix permanently, arcane prices crashed. A lot of us do stockpile plat but that's not the case all the time. Plus, how were we supposed to know and be prepared for this (unknown prior to the stream) info?

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19 minutes ago, --ZeRo-- said:

The second DE announced that arcanes will be obtainable through orphix permanently, arcane prices crashed. A lot of us do stockpile plat but that's not the case all the time. Plus, how were we supposed to know and be prepared for this (unknown prior to the stream) info?

Yea I guess you had Scarlet spear to really make the decision. That should have been plenty enough time to think "I guess there's a possibility arcanes will be coming back through different ways, let me sell off some excess arcanes and make some plat to save before this becomes a more common occurrence."

I saw this coming after Scarlet spear because I'd already seen all the complaints, and it's a valid criticism that everyone shouldn't have to do multiple 5x3s for weeks and months at a time, or buy arcanes for 800p. 

I think it was a good move to make, but I don't do eidolons for plat or arcanes I just do them to work on my time.

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Il y a 2 heures, (PSN)Madurai-Prime a dit :

Yea I guess you had Scarlet spear to really make the decision.

I was not even playing the game when Scarlet spear ran.

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Il y a 5 heures, AsrarPrime a dit :

Why do you want to use other weapons when the ones you have are more than enough?

Why not it make the hunt fresh to use meme weapons keeps them fun. Vulkar for exemples need a riven sadly but not all of them need one.

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Ooooh nooo, not the eidolons !

Imagine having other options to get arcanes than doing nothing but tricap after tricap after tricap for months, a gameplay so restrictive and repetitive that even the rest of warframe seems like an everchanging experience in comparison...

DE surely got mad yes...

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On 2021-02-26 at 1:16 PM, coot33 said:

We find this very unfortunate since, since for most eidolon hunters eidolons are the only thing keeping us playing this game, If 5/6x3 become unsustainable many skilled player will simply leave the game.

Provide evidence to back your threat, please.

You speak for yourself and at most the 13 posters that up voted your initial post.

I don't think DE is worried about a few players leaving for a change that will most likely make a ton of other happy, just based on the posts in the thread alone, much less the data DE probably used to make the choice in the first place.

So, show us some real, hard, evidence this is some 'threat' to the game, it's player economy, DE, w/e.

Proof. Do you have it?

Otherwise, just talk from another gamer who likes to thinks they are on the game runner's board of directors.

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My whole problem with this change is the fact that fighting orphix is just not fun. I only did the orphix event because I felt like I had to, meanwhile I hunt eidolons every night because I actually enjoy the hunt. I don't have a problem with arcanes being obtainable from other sources, but I do have a problem with arcanes being obtainable from boring content. I would also like to see a change in the eidolon loot tables because they just aren't rewarding enough and after this change comes, they might as well just have no rewards at all. Steel path eidolons are also a joke, one steel essence on top of normal rewards for killing a lvl130 hydrolyst is not a reward. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

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7 minutes ago, --ZeRo-- said:

My whole problem with this change is the fact that fighting orphix is just not fun. I only did the orphix event because I felt like I had to, meanwhile I hunt eidolons every night because I actually enjoy the hunt. I don't have a problem with arcanes being obtainable from other sources, but I do have a problem with arcanes being obtainable from boring content. I would also like to see a change in the eidolon loot tables because they just aren't rewarding enough and after this change comes, they might as well just have no rewards at all. Steel path eidolons are also a joke, one steel essence on top of normal rewards for killing a lvl130 hydrolyst is not a reward. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

I also find eidolon hunts fun . The only reason I stopped playing it is because the lack of competent players since the pre requisites or so much for efficient runs . 
Even if not efficient the knowledge itself is extensive , so it’s hard to get new people to try it .

So that usually causes matchmaking issues , I don’t like solo eidolons because that’d just waste more energy pads . Which is already annoying to farm thousands . 

I think with the steel path variant DE could drop additional arcanes , so it’s faster. I saw someone mention riven transmuter as a reward and that’s a joke honestly. I’ve never really used them personally. Would like to see eidolons drop 2-3-5 essence per so you get 10 essence in 1 cycle . That’s 60 essence in 6x3.

While getting double arcane drop so it’s somewhat faster , I think DE should definitely make exclusive arcanes for eidolons that’s a guaranteed drop so you don’t have to farm for months but rather 21 captures . So even if others want them it’s still a reasonable time investment without forcing their hand . This in of itself can bring exposure to the hunts . Also can expand this to orb fights also . 

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Il y a 4 heures, Zimzala a dit :

I don't think DE is worried about a few players leaving for a change that will most likely make a ton of other happy, just based on the posts in the thread alone, much less the data DE probably used to make the choice in the first place.

If DE just keeps playing whack a mole with every small community of player. Everyone will be gone. Is this what this game is about just turn everyone against each other till we all just stop playing ?

Il y a 4 heures, Zimzala a dit :

Otherwise, just talk from another gamer who likes to thinks they are on the game runner's board of directors.

I manifest the problems we have to get in front of the change and address our potential death of our community and you are asking for some sorts of 40 pages economic thesis. We don't know the drop rate, the time gate if any and how the farm will be comparable to the event and eidolon. We know its was boring and trivial event and the goal is to get people to play raijack.

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3 hours ago, --ZeRo-- said:

My whole problem with this change is the fact that fighting orphix is just not fun.

To you. I actually enjoyed Orphix a fair amount. I actually don't like doing the eidolon thing despite making an effort to at least try it all out with soloing Terry a little bit. Funny how that works, innit? Different strokes n different folks, options are nice. 

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21 hours ago, --ZeRo-- said:

The second DE announced that arcanes will be obtainable through orphix permanently

I'd like to read this announcement! Where can I find it?

Best news I've seen all day, in that case. Orphix Venom is tons of fun, and slightly less buggy than Eidelons.

Edited by Zeddypanda
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First , its a game , its not a job in which you have to earn platinum - any complaints that use "i will get less platinum now" as a justification will get no sympathy from me.

Second , we dont yet know what the reward to effort conversion for OV in non event missions will be - Tridolons might sill be the most effective for their respective rewards, i also cant recollect if they specifically said they will reward all arcanes

Third , i personally dont like eidolons cause they are quite literally migraine inducing , when i got my last waybound unlocked i never touched it , there were multiple reasons for it ,

  1. The time dependency - you can only hunt at night, those of us with jobs may not always be playing at the right time.
  2. The expectation of meta - if you arent using meta gear other players will not want to pair with you, you might pair up with like minded players once in a while , but there are very few of those - the game mode seems to attract a very specific type of player which i dont enjoy being around.
  3. The literal light show of blinding headaches - i am not sure who thought it was a good idea to have extremely bright colorful lights flashing in dark areas, i am absolutely certain someone must have gotten a seizure while playing it,
  4. Bugs - i am told that the bugs are more manageable now , but if you spend nearly an hour doing something only for it to not progress further it tends to piss people off.

So for these reasons anything that reduces the exclusiveness of Eidolon hunting is welcome change in my opinion.

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Same as changing the drop of Steel Essene to Acolytes, the move to make Arcanes widely available for farming lowers the value of a monopoly of plat income for a certain groups of players. Constantly farming plat via Steel Essence and riven flipping or hunting eidolons for those arcanes and monopolising those areas creates a dependence towards the players who don't want to run Eidolons or several hours long steel path missions.

So I applaud these changes.

Those who rely on the plat income however do not.

This is the whole truth about this discussion. It is good for the game that players can now farm Arcanes on their own.

Good news to Eidolon hunters: you can still do your beloved content, which some of you love so much and which is so interesting for you, noone is taking that away. You can even still sell your Arcanes to other players, they will still buy it. So DE is not even taking away your source of income. But it is going to be lower. You won't get 1500 plat for an Arcane Essence any more. If you look at the other side of players who do not want to run hundreds and hundreds of Eidolon hunts to get an item which is a big increase of power, you might understand that this is good for the game. Not for your wallet, but for the game and for your fellow players who are no longer forced to make you rich.

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