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Stealing Eidolon hunter rewards.


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1 hour ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

I think you’re missing my point , I’m arguing that eidolons should have incentives to be farmed and played still since the ways to obtain arcanes would be expanded . 

They already have this.

Brilliant Eidolon Shard's are exclusive to Eidelons.

 

No changes needed.

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11 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

Okay but what do you say to those who like competition or challenges . Or those who like a system because that system is offered nowhere else in the game (I know orbs exist but they lack reward). 

And what do you say to those who really don't like doing the same activity over and over again because it has the only source of the reward you are looking for?

 

Lets at least give them another option to gain the rewards.

11 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

Incentive is a main drive , why should any new player play eidolon just because it’s fun .

Its a game, you play for fun.

 

11 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

I guarantee you the player base of eidolon will dwindle so it will be even harder to get groups to play them .

Then why is it currently dwindling? Maybe because people don't like it? So maybe we should not force people play it?

 

No offence but if I was forced to play something like conclave for arcanes I would not be happy.

Edited by WH1735S0W
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1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

If you are only doing eidolons for exclusive rewards, then I think there is a bigger problem here. 

Content shouldn't be so inaccessible only a tiny handful of players do it, and then gatekeep the rewards, and expect compensation when those rewards are finally spread out. 

You should be arguing for eidolons to be more accessible, not for more shiny new toys for your exclusive club. What you are asking for would only exacerbate the very kind of problem DE is trying to solve by spreading out acquisition for the Eidolon arcanes, more rare rewards gatekeeped behind content almost no players are actually running. 

And even those running it claim it is "fun" yet also claim, in the same breath, their fun will be instantly ruined if their rewards are no longer exclusive. 

So which is it? 

If I don't enjoy the gameplay in a Warframe mission on its own, not for some reward, I don't play those missions. The reward should be a bonus, good gameplay should be rewarding in itself. 

Nobody wants another mode dumbed down again just so Timmy can play it

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5 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

And what do you say to those who really don't like doing the same activity over and over again because it has the only source of the reward you are looking for?

 

Lets at least give them another option to gain the rewards.

Its a game, you play for fun.

 

Then why is it currently dwindling? Maybe because people don't like it? So maybe we should not force people play it?

The first point you made doesn’t effect anything i said since I’m not arguing that arcanes in it’s entirety should be tied to eidolons. 
 

People have their different interpretations of fun , the fantasy element itself is fun . 
 

I’m not forcing anything on anyone , I’m simply asking to make it appealing , also it could also be falling due to scarlet spear , Orphix venom . Some just wanted a set of the arcanes so they don’t have to play anymore . 

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1 hour ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

I think you’re missing my point , I’m arguing that eidolons should have incentives to be farmed and played still since the ways to obtain arcanes would be expanded . 

I mean, they have arcanes, riven transmuters, and shards that you can trade for focus. I think that's a lot.

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1 minute ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

I mean, they have arcanes, riven transmuters, and shards that you can trade for focus. I think that's a lot.

Arcanes won’t be , riven transmutes personally have never found them useful , shards aren’t the only way to gain focus and most players doesn’t know this so they never get interested from that alone .

Even for those who do, they’d rather just use lenses .

 

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

Arcanes won’t be

Depends on how quickly you can get Arcanes from the new Railjack mode.

2 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

riven transmutes personally have never found them useful

You used the word "personally", others may find it useful.

3 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

shards aren’t the only way to gain focus and most players doesn’t know this so they never get interested from that alone .

In order to unbind focus skills you need these, they also don't take up your daily cap when you use them. 

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1 hour ago, nslay said:

If you need to argue this, it sounds like Eidolons aren't actually fun and that sane players wouldn't play it beyond Nightwave or Quills standing.

I wouldnt say theyre not fun, i like eidolons but they dont give anything and ive defeated them 100 times

Just like how i love the game Devil may Cry and find it fun, im just not doing it cause im not getting any more progression from it and ive played it 100 times

Like you also dont see people playing mecury survival all the time, doesnt mean the mission isnt as fun as other survivals in warframe. Just isnt offering anything people need and has been played enough

Edited by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim
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4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Depends on how quickly you can get Arcanes from the new Railjack mode.

You used the word "personally", others may find it useful.

In order to unbind focus skills you need these, they also don't take up your daily cap when you use them. 

Yeah I know I used personally and every hunter I know has no use for them , why transmute when I can sell my trash rivens 5p each and guarantee 20p to buy the veiled I need. 

That final point is good but I still think it’s not advertised as well. 

All in all whether you agree or disagree, we can both be happy that this is putting light to the issues in the game . A friend of mine said they’d want a easier eidolon entry for new hunters , and I agree , the more squads the better , but if I made a post about an obvious issue it won’t gain traction . I would say I jumped the gun by omitting such things but I highlighted it a bit . 
 

Hopefully this is seen by DE and they can break it down in a healthy and progressive manner.

 

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the "Eidolon Community" already does Eidolon Hunting because they enjoy it, irregardless of the Rewards.
if anything, if you don't want to do Eidolon Hunting without special extra Rewards, are you sure you actually fit this categorical description?

 

anyways, having Steel Essence for the harder Eidolons go up would make sense to me. 
and then, more of the other stuff, too. more Eidolon Shards, more Sentient Cores, Et Cetera. similarly, the Eidolons could have more Arcane/Mod Drops.

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On 2021-02-26 at 1:16 PM, coot33 said:

I would like to manifest my discontent that is shared by most of the Eidolon hunting community, in that we once again are getting shafted in order to make a boring part of the game feel rewarding. Eidolons are the best boss of the game they fit the mechanically difficult boss fight (one of the question that was asked in the dev stream on bosses) and also requires teamwork to get good results consistently. No solo 6x3 has ever been done yet.

We would have preferred that reward for raijack be new ones instead of the arcanes. The new raijack orphix venom is much less resource intensive than eidolons, Where energy pads and cipher are a must. This means that plat from arcane were funnel directly into booster to farm for nano spore, polymer and ferrite as well as rivens to make some weapon shine. It does not appear to be time gated as well, leading to what is likely a market crash for the price of arcanes and the 5/6x3 eidolons lifestyle to no be longer sustainable.

We find this very unfortunate since, since for most eidolon hunters eidolons are the only thing keeping us playing this game, If 5/6x3 become unsustainable many skilled player will simply leave the game.

Thank you for reading our concerns.

I think your entire post illustrates why the arcanes moving away from the eidolons is a great idea. No offense but the eidolon groups are WAY too toxic, elitist, plat hungry and discouraging for the arcanes to remain just there. Those groups are the anti-community...literally built to prevent inclusion. DE would be crazy to allow that level of toxic restriction to continue without watering down the need to be subjected to those groups.

Seriously, I had to get on a dude because he decided to chastise a player that didn't have the "correct" setup. That player was just playing Warframe and discovered there were groups who he could team up with to defeat an eidolon he could never defeat. So, imagine a player using recruitment, only to get yelled at because he was excited while another was being greedy. I actually left that team to help him defeat his first eidolon but he said he'll never do that again...and that is a problem.

In essence, diversity the ability to get arcanes and break up that elitist group a bit. Not all are bad but, usually, the bad ones tend to leave first and leave the more fun, inviting groups there to rebuild better. Sorry bro but it's widely known how bad the eidolon hunters can get and DE shouldn't have let it stand for this long.

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

Incentive is a main drive , why should any new player play eidolon just because it’s fun . The pre requisites are too much , while an easier option in RJ have the same rewards (arcanes) .

I guarantee you the player base of eidolon will dwindle so it will be even harder to get groups to play them .

 You aren't wrong. But maybe just trying to find a group of like-minded players outside of Warframe would solve this part of the dilemma. Just like any economic growth market, once the Arcane Hunters have moved on to a different game mode, the Big Game/For Fun Hunters will make a place for themselves.

As for the prerequisites, I don't think they are too much. You need a parachute when skydiving, if you don't bring one, you regret that decision the rest of your life.

For new players, DE needs to learn how to encourage different game mode, even if they are hard or have a huge learning curve. Cetus NPCs and the quest Saya's Vigil clearly tell the player, "stay away from eidolons". No one, not even Quill Onnko, tells new players to "hunt these dangerous monsters, the risk is worth the reward".

2 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

Some just wanted a set of the arcanes so they don’t have to play anymore . 

Yup pretty much. A maxed arcane with free revives or "you're doing it wrong". This is an ethos DE has built up, said they don't want it to exist, and continued to build up. Archwing missions, Amesha is king. ESO, room nuke is king. Railjack, Tether is king. So if Hunting is a dying sport, maybe the fault lies with DE.

1 hour ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

You’re [Voltage] the most understanding person in this thread . 

You have no idea. Voltage has been a voice of reason to DE. Just like an unwanted conscience or a skeleton in the closet. They have made so many reasonable suggestions to DE and are constantly ignored.

TL;DR there will probably just be a few demographics that actually want to go Hunting, and then a smattering of players that only do the bare minimum because they want to rank up with Onnko and get Unbound Tenno School abilities. Most players will ignore it.

R.I.P. Eidolons. In loving memory of Terry, Garry, and Harry. You will be missed.

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9 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

I wouldnt say theyre not fun, i like eidolons but they dont give anything and ive defeated them 100 times

Just like how i love the game Devil may Cry and find it fun, im just not doing it cause im not getting any more progression from it and ive played it 100 times

Like you also dont see people playing mecury survival all the time, doesnt mean the mission isnt as fun as other survivals in warframe. Just isnt offering anything people need and has been played enough

Well, if this kind of thinking were universally true, I wouldn't be playing Warframe. I'm basically well past rewards... well maybe not Octavia Prime and her weapons. But yeah... I'm basically done with rewards and mats and all that stuff. I still play Void Sabotage and Hive Sabotage though!

And once I reach MR 30? I'm still going to be playing for fun.

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3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

the "Eidolon Community" already does Eidolon Hunting because they enjoy it, irregardless of the Rewards.
if anything, if you don't want to do Eidolon Hunting without special extra Rewards, are you sure you actually fit this categorical description?

 

anyways, having Steel Essence for the harder Eidolons go up would make sense to me. 
and then, more of the other stuff, too. more Eidolon Shards, more Sentient Cores, Et Cetera. similarly, the Eidolons could have more Arcane/Mod Drops.

I agree with you but my worry isn’t for those who already eidolon but for the general playerbase not finding motivation to touch eidolons .

I know a lot of people that would start farming for good amps if they know they could get lots of essence from eidolons . Some argue that the greed is bad but people like to profit for things . The fun may not only be in eidolon but a combination of other things such as a challenge since SP eidolon hunts aren’t easy and fueling your riven fantasy.

 

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if slaughtering the gigantic sentients themselves isn't reward enough, then your good old days of fun while hunting Eidolons has passed, and it's time to move on. I think the only way more people would get into Eidolons is if DE made it a bit like a Monster Hunter-lite mode where you capture/kill Eidolons and use bits of them to make stuff, which then lets you fight even stronger Eidolons. really, they kinda should have done that from the start IMO: kill Terry with standard Quill gear, then make new gear to fight Garry, then use Garry's gear to fight Harry, then Harry's gear for ropalolololololololyst. after that it's just a question of reskinning Eidolons in new colors and giving them new attacks, with a unique all-new eidolon added every so often. boom, content!

same formula could've been used for Orbs too: use whatever scraps Fortuna gives you to kill Profit-Taker, then whatever you learned from that to fight Exploiter, and then a combination of previous methods and new gear for the third Orb (which is supposedly gonna be a Trial now, or something similar).

point being: the best way to keep a Hunter interested is to keep giving them something new to Hunt. remember your first capture/kill? your first successful Tricap? it was a rush wasn't it? you felt like you really accomplished something, and the rewards were just the icing on the cake. That feeling is what Eidolon hunters, monster hunters, hunters of basically anything challenging, want: it's why you keep doing it, but it's just not the same when you're killing the same things over and over. and granted, the fun would still wear off eventually, but then a new Eidolon comes out and it's all hands on deck again!

TLDR: Eidolon hunters are chasing that high they got from their first kill/capture which they can never hope to replicate, so the next best thing would be to keep adding more Eidolons to hunt, however cheaply-reskinned they might be. hell, we could even have an Eidolon in space that we fight with our Railjack!.

Edited by (PSN)robotwars7
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4 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

 You aren't wrong. But maybe just trying to find a group of like-minded players outside of Warframe would solve this part of the dilemma. Just like any economic growth market, once the Arcane Hunters have moved on to a different game mode, the Big Game/For Fun Hunters will make a place for themselves.

As for the prerequisites, I don't think they are too much. You need a parachute when skydiving, if you don't bring one, you regret that decision the rest of your life.

For new players, DE needs to learn how to encourage different game mode, even if they are hard or have a huge learning curve. Cetus NPCs and the quest Saya's Vigil clearly tell the player, "stay away from eidolons". No one, not even Quill Onnko, tells new players to "hunt these dangerous monsters, the risk is worth the reward".

Yup pretty much. A maxed arcane with free revives or "you're doing it wrong". This is an ethos DE has built up, said they don't want it to exist, and continued to build up. Archwing missions, Amesha is king. ESO, room nuke is king. Railjack, Tether is king. So if Hunting is a dying sport, maybe the fault lies with DE.

You have no idea. Voltage has been a voice of reason to DE. Just like an unwanted conscience or a skeleton in the closet. They have made so many reasonable suggestions to DE and are constantly ignored.

TL;DR there will probably just be a few demographics that actually want to go Hunting, and then a smattering of players that only do the bare minimum because they want to rank up with Onnko and get Unbound Tenno School abilities. Most players will ignore it.

R.I.P. Eidolons. In loving memory of Terry, Garry, and Harry. You will be missed.

You and voltage both have really great points that isn’t simply just “this is bad because exclusive” . 
 

I think DE shy from having a competitive aspect to the game , or something that requires skill. It could be a business move , but it’s definitely detrimental to the end game . But at the same time they don’t keep up with old content , after eidolons dropped they didn’t make any new changes that would anticipate a meta being formed . Everything is stagnant when it come to Cetus progression while the eidolon strategies just kept getting more streamlined.

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4 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

if slaughtering the gigantic sentients themselves isn't reward enough, then your good old days of fun while hunting Eidolons has passed, and it's time to move on. I think the only way more people would get into Eidolons is if DE made it a bit like a Monster Hunter-lite mode where you capture/kill Eidolons and use bits of them to make stuff, which then lets you fight even stronger Eidolons. really, they kinda should have done that from the start IMO: kill Terry with standard Quill gear, then make new gear to fight Garry, then use Garry's gear to fight Harry, then Harry's gear for ropalolololololololyst. after that it's just a question of reskinning Eidolons in new colors and giving them new attacks, with a unique all-new eidolon added every so often. boom, content!

same formula could've been used for Orbs too: use whatever scraps Fortuna gives you to kill Profit-Taker, then whatever you learned from that to fight Exploiter, and then a combination of previous methods and new gear for the third Orb (which is supposedly gonna be a Trial now, or something similar).

point being: the best way to keep a Hunter interested is to keep giving them something new to Hunt. remember your first capture/kill? your first successful Tricap? it was a rush wasn't it? you felt like you really accomplished something, and the rewards were just the icing on the cake. That feeling is what Eidolon hunters, monster hunters, hunters of basically anything challenging, want: it's why you keep doing it, but it's just not the same when you're killing the same things over and over. and granted, the fun would still wear off eventually, but then a new Eidolon comes out and it's all hands on deck again!

TLDR: Eidolon hunters are chasing that high they got from their first kill/capture which they can never hope to replicate, so the next best thing would be to keep adding more Eidolons to hunt, however cheaply-reskinned they might be. hell, we could even have an Eidolon in space that we fight with our Railjack!.

You’re not wrong , by the way just because I suggest this doesn’t mean I don’t agree with any other changes that would amount to a boom in the eidolon hunters population.

That honestly makes more sense too , since the best amp is in fortuna that requires an entirely different grind . When they could’ve just kept it local to using the parts like you said .

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29 minutes ago, nslay said:

if this kind of thinking were universally true

Its universally true, people wouldnt play warframe as much if progression was removed from the game. Burnout would be far more intense than it already is, which can be proven by looking at any older version of a game compared to its newer one, even if that older version is still good like old call of duty games, players move to the newer one for updates and progression

29 minutes ago, nslay said:

I'm basically well past rewards... well maybe not Octavia Prime and her weapons. But yeah... I'm basically done with rewards and mats and all that stuff. I still play Void Sabotage and Hive Sabotage though!

I think you missed the point about "mercury" 

Its saying that if you wanted "octavia prime" (to progress in your collection of warframes) and all you needed was 100,000 ferrite and you only had 300. Youd be playing earth or mercury sabotage as opposed to void, or an updated version of void that dropped ferrite

For the sake of progression and because youve been in the void 1,000 times. Nothing left their for you to do there

Add the ferrite to void sabotage and what do you know, you and others are playing void sabotage more.

Progression universally has that effect on people

Edited by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim
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17 hours ago, Alpha_Tango said:

Exchanging the Eidolon mechanics which is far superior than being locked into using the operator and Mechs only to farm Arcanes is just sad.

In my experience, Eidelons are also locked into using operators and mechs only to farm arcanes.

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44 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

The first point you made doesn’t effect anything i said since I’m not arguing that arcanes in it’s entirety should be tied to eidolons.

Then what is the big issue? Eidolons already have a good amount players. If you care not for arcanes then you should be fine.

 

45 minutes ago, (PSN)ggh667124 said:

I’m not forcing anything on anyone , I’m simply asking to make it appealing , also it could also be falling due to scarlet spear , Orphix venom . Some just wanted a set of the arcanes so they don’t have to play anymore . 

Then that seems like a problem with eidolons itself. Also it is forcing if you are making players play for the rewards only. Better solution would be to expand it to make it more enjoyable.

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5 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

Then what is the big issue? Eidolons already have a good amount players. If you care not for arcanes then you should be fine.

 

Then that seems like a problem with eidolons itself. Also it is forcing if you are making players play for the rewards only. Better solution would be to expand it to make it more enjoyable.

Eidolons don’t have much of a player base right now . I don’t know if you hung regularly but it’s a struggle to host and recruit . 
 

That isn’t forcing , I don’t think you know what the word means if you use it like that . Forcing would be to say , the game is unplayable if you don’t have “xyz” item and you can only get it from a specific game mode.

 

Your reply seems to just be lacking any foresight whatsoever , that isn’t to insult but rather is the fault of your arguments .

 

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1 minute ago, DogsConkers said:

Just a thought but Eidolon hunting may get a bit easier with primary weapon buffs coming.

The difficulty for entry isn’t the guns necessarily but the amount of accumulated grind . You need to go through the entirety of fortuna to get the best AMP 

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1 hour ago, Zeddypanda said:

In my experience, Eidelons are also locked into using operators and mechs only to farm arcanes.

You must be good then, that being your first ever Hydrolyst kill. Do you have an alternate account to do all that? I do not even see a single amp on your account.

So, yes, Operator, Necramechs, warframes, weapons your amps the whole package in hunting Eidolons vs. what? a NM with an Archgun and your Operator. Exciting. 

I still have to try it though because I love Mechs.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Ugh scarlet spear was horrible I agree. Meh, the eidolon hunters who apparently love the content will still be able to do said content and yeh Orphix is a bit boring but as you said it's an extra option. This whole thread however is just the hunters complaining they're going to be losing plat and it's all a bit silly really.

I never went for the arcanes for plat. But the exciting trek to ole' Tridolons was all good times for me. Randoms all the way too.

 

Edited by Alpha_Tango
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1 hour ago, WH1735S0W said:

Its a game, you play for fun.

Seems more and more apparent that this is not the case for some people. The loudest want rewards and they want to get it by AFK farming while they watch netflix. They will say they find it fun, but considering all the other things they say, it's obviously all BS.

Edited by (PSN)Yggranya
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