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9 reasons why Chroma needs a rework. Bonus: soon, he will become EVEN worse...


(XBOX)GodMasterTP

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I'll be very straightfoward with the post: 

1) His EHP was terribly nerfed back when they reworked how Vex Armor calculated (it was multiplicative). His previous EHP was somewhere close to 70k with Vex Armor/E.Ward (Heat)/Arcane Guardian, now it is 38k (almost half; #*!%).

2) He isn't immune to status effects. Just for some nice trivia: some frames with tank skills can be immune to status and have damage reduction in these skills (not armor increases), but even if they weren't immune to status (most of them don't), they would be less vulnerable to slash procs than Chroma. Simply because damage reduction from skills actually reduces slash damage, while armor itself doesn't. That doesn't mean Chroma needs it, it just highlights how bad he is.

3) He requires too much energy to function at full power. Doesn't deliver half what it should. That is self-explanatory. 

4) Spectral Scream doesn't work as a damage dealer nor a status primer. The problem with this skill is not only damage, but range, status chance, damage ratio (ticks p/second), status chance...damn, even the animation is trash. It doesn't even look like a dragon breath.

5) Effigy has basically no use outside of AFKing on low (very low) level missions and Profit Taker.

6) His damage buff is mediocre nowadays, and will become even worse now if DE includes universal Condition Overload (which is probably going to happen) to all weapons (Primaries/Secondaries). His buff was already trash for melee due to the existance of CO and the fact both are added, not multiplied, making Rhino's Roar a much better buff for melee usage due to the fact it multiplies total damage.

7) His CC relies on getting hit or using Effigy. Since getting hit is actually counter intuitive with the purpose of CC, and Effigy has trash AI and a mediocre CC nonetheless...it's almost like he doesn't have CC. Which is even worse if you consider that things like Rhino/Nidus/Nezha/Inaros not only have more EHP, but also have CC and status immunity included, some of them also have damage buffs (Rhino/Nezha).

8) He doesn't have a real passive. Note: that's a BIG problem with all the older frames. 

9) His theme is very underdeveloped. Is he a dragon? A knight using dragon pelt? A draconian (btw, that's a niche term for hybrids between humans and dragons)? Because, he doesn't feel nor is fixed on any theme. Want proof? 

=> Dragon? No, because he doesn't fly (double jump is not flight), have an actual dangerous breath or walk on 4 legs. 

=> Knight with dragon pelt? No, it's pretty clear the powers come from him, not the pelt. Because he can use his entire arsenal even with Effigy activated, even his double jump gimmick. You could argue that's a developer oversight but that would be an hypothesis, not an actual fact, like what we can literally test at any given moment.

=> A Draconian (human/dragon hybrid)? Yes, but kinda no. Because there is no "remove your skin" gimmick on them, dragon hybrids nor pure dragons can do this.

If all of this is not enough to rework Chroma...I'll just give up.

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I agree with most of the criticisms. Chroma's design is old and clunky, and while his recent buffs did somewhat improve him, they didn't really fix all of his problems. His useless, half-hearted new passive I think clearly reflects how much thought and care was put into truly improving the frame, which is to say not all that much. He can be strong in the right situation, namely against Profit-Taker and Eidolons (and even then, he's not necessary for the latter either), but outside of that he struggles to come online, in large part because his masochistic kit doesn't gel well in most missions, and is too cumbersome to put to full use anyway. Letting Chroma alternate freely between elements should've been a game-changer, and the fact that it did little to make him feel that much deeper or more rewarding to play I think shows he needs more than just a few improvements here and there; he likely needs a comprehensive rework.

Most of the criticisms I'd make of Chroma are already outlined in the OP, so here's some suggestions for possibly improving him:

  • Scrap his current passive, probably try to make Vex Armor fit in instead and make it more reliable outside of specific missions.
  • Honestly, just give Spectral Scream the Garuda's Talons treatment, so that it can get proper stats, updated animations, and the benefit of mod scaling, while opening up a slot for a more interesting ability.
  • Elemental Ward I think can go one of two ways: either one declutters it and gives it a consistent effect across elements, with the change coming from which damage is applied, or one makes each elemental version much more involved, so that it feels like Chroma's playing radically differently based on the one he's using.
  • Effigy I think also can go one of two ways: either one removes it and replaces it with something else, or one reworks it entirely and makes it tie much better into the rest of Chroma's kit. Personally, I'd rather condense Chroma's theme down to an elemental dragon specifically, and never cared much for Effigy as an ability, so I'd remove it, though I'm also by no means the most experienced Chroma player either.
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1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

I agree with most of the criticisms. Chroma's design is old and clunky, and while his recent buffs did somewhat improve him, they didn't really fix all of his problems. His useless, half-hearted new passive I think clearly reflects how much thought and care was put into truly improving the frame, which is to say not all that much. He can be strong in the right situation, namely against Profit-Taker and Eidolons (and even then, he's not necessary for the latter either), but outside of that he struggles to come online, in large part because his masochistic kit doesn't gel well in most missions, and is too cumbersome to put to full use anyway. Letting Chroma alternate freely between elements should've been a game-changer, and the fact that it did little to make him feel that much deeper or more rewarding to play I think shows he needs more than just a few improvements here and there; he likely needs a comprehensive rework.

Most of the criticisms I'd make of Chroma are already outlined in the OP, so here's some suggestions for possibly improving him:

  • Scrap his current passive, probably try to make Vex Armor fit in instead and make it more reliable outside of specific missions.
  • Honestly, just give Spectral Scream the Garuda's Talons treatment, so that it can get proper stats, updated animations, and the benefit of mod scaling, while opening up a slot for a more interesting ability.
  • Elemental Ward I think can go one of two ways: either one declutters it and gives it a consistent effect across elements, with the change coming from which damage is applied, or one makes each elemental version much more involved, so that it feels like Chroma's playing radically differently based on the one he's using.
  • Effigy I think also can go one of two ways: either one removes it and replaces it with something else, or one reworks it entirely and makes it tie much better into the rest of Chroma's kit. Personally, I'd rather condense Chroma's theme down to an elemental dragon specifically, and never cared much for Effigy as an ability, so I'd remove it, though I'm also by no means the most experienced Chroma player either.

My most recent Chroma rework post has some changes you might like.

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All these things are true, but in my opinion the greatest flaw of Chroma is how boring he is. Cast Vex Armor, stand in front of enemies.... that's it. Elemental Ward exists to be cast on cooldown but honestly it isn't necessary in 90% of content. Chroma is by far the most boring tank (yes, even Inaros has more gameplay personality) and that is especially bad considering how interesting their concept is (the dragon/knight/draconian thing).

And at the end of the day gameplay is what matters most. If a Warframe is boring it doesn't matter how good/bad they are... they're boring. It is almost worse when a Warframe is good and boring (Chroma is "good," he does some jobs better than other frames) because that means more people will be engaging with the boring content.

 

On the note of Chroma's theme, thank you for not falling into the "cHRomA iS A dRaGOn" trap.

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1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

All these things are true, but in my opinion the greatest flaw of Chroma is how boring he is. Cast Vex Armor, stand in front of enemies.... that's it. Elemental Ward exists to be cast on cooldown but honestly it isn't necessary in 90% of content. Chroma is by far the most boring tank (yes, even Inaros has more gameplay personality) and that is especially bad considering how interesting their concept is (the dragon/knight/draconian thing).

And at the end of the day gameplay is what matters most. If a Warframe is boring it doesn't matter how good/bad they are... they're boring. It is almost worse when a Warframe is good and boring (Chroma is "good," he does some jobs better than other frames) because that means more people will be engaging with the boring content.

 

On the note of Chroma's theme, thank you for not falling into the "cHRomA iS A dRaGOn" trap.

I know that Chroma is a dragon. And I really wish he was more entertaining to use, because he is my favorite Warframe in terms of looks and thematic (I love dragons and most things related to them).

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7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

His useless, half-hearted new passive I think clearly reflects how much thought and care was put into truly improving the frame, which is to say not all that much.

I mean, I wish I could put all the blame on DE for this however this passive is in fact what a large vocal percentage of the community wanted... to my dismay. Every time I saw it brought up, I always said "with the current movement system, I don't see how this will be useful in nearly every situation. These are the reasons why stuff like Super Jump was removed". And the response I likely see, "but I want to see the wings used more!".   So now we have a passive that once dictated your cosmetic to now just be a cosmetic... irony.

I don't even get any enjoyment out of some of them who go "well this isn't what I wanted", when I go "but it is exactly what you asked for".  I mean certainly it could've been implemented better by making the third jump a special jump with its own timing, effective strength/lift, and glide. Still not remotely useful for nearly anything but it would have made it feel better to use. But why be mad at DE when all that was requested was a "triple jump", nothing more nothing less.

7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Letting Chroma alternate freely between elements should've been a game-changer, and the fact that it did little to make him feel that much deeper or more rewarding to play I think shows he needs more than just a few improvements here and there; he likely needs a comprehensive rework.

It would've been a game changer had it not been for the simple fact that of his whole kit, his most prized ability is NON-ELEMENTAL! Vex doesn't take into any consideration of what elemental he was from the beginning (and all to get about the same performance as a Rhino who doesn't need to do the stack work). Couple that with how poor Spectral and Effigy performs (even with the most recent changes on functionality) and that Ward, which isn't the most terrible but... is overshadowed by Wisp's Reservoir. I would swap out her ability with Ward in a heartbeat if I could. A Hasten effect to movement and attacks, shock effects with stuns and decent range, large increase to Health AND a regen effect all at once with super duration that is easy to share and refresh!? God, Chroma got crapped on from on high. His elemental nature is just lackluster so improvement to access to his the elements by itself doesn't mean anything. And do not get me started on Lavos!

But the main problem with the swap is that everything has to be recast to change the element. Which has its trade offs though only in regard to Ward. It would help Spectral and Effigy function better as status generators (which seems to be the design they want) if they just swap as you do. The only effect of having the recast makes it clunky to take advantage of if there isn't a reason/payoff to have multiple effects at the same time (ie: spectral a different element than effigy). Again do not get me started on Lavos!

4 hours ago, DrBorris said:

All these things are true, but in my opinion the greatest flaw of Chroma is how boring he is. Cast Vex Armor, stand in front of enemies.... that's it. Elemental Ward exists to be cast on cooldown but honestly it isn't necessary in 90% of content. Chroma is by far the most boring tank (yes, even Inaros has more gameplay personality) and that is especially bad considering how interesting their concept is (the dragon/knight/draconian thing).

And at the end of the day gameplay is what matters most. If a Warframe is boring it doesn't matter how good/bad they are... they're boring. It is almost worse when a Warframe is good and boring (Chroma is "good," he does some jobs better than other frames) because that means more people will be engaging with the boring content.

YES! but...

4 hours ago, DrBorris said:

On the note of Chroma's theme, thank you for not falling into the "cHRomA iS A dRaGOn" trap.

If I could ask. Why is it a trap? I mean sure, some people take it way too literally. He definitely shouldn't behave as a dragon. But as a theme, it should inform his concept which it does better in some ways than others. "Fire" Breathing and Hardened Scales are more western dragons while Wards and the "Wealth" effect on Effigy are more eastern dragons. The lore from the Prime trailers infer that the frames were made with a concept and purpose to which they are themed. Too bad DE never got around to do Chroma's. I would be interested in how he would be portrayed.

But even in regards to the OPs analysis of his theming, to say that he isn't themed after a dragon would be incorrect. The lynchpin however is that it is a theme of concept not a description. He is a warrior with the properties of a dragon as a description. His pellet-less aesthetic even look knightly (which is still a warrior). Perhaps a more accurate theme would be "Arthurian", which is why he looks more western dragon than eastern with a knightly underbelly. But again its just a theme. If you want a literal description, it would best be described as a shaman/druid that envelopes themselves with the magicks of the dragons allowing them to channel their properties. Even still holds to the Arthurian theme.

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3 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I mean, I wish I could put all the blame on DE for this however this passive is in fact what a large vocal percentage of the community wanted... to my dismay. Every time I saw it brought up, I always said "with the current movement system, I don't see how this will be useful in nearly every situation. These are the reasons why stuff like Super Jump was removed". And the response I likely see, "but I want to see the wings used more!".   So now we have a passive that once dictated your cosmetic to now just be a cosmetic... irony.

I don't even get any enjoyment out of some of them who go "well this isn't what I wanted", when I go "but it is exactly what you asked for".  I mean certainly it could've been implemented better by making the third jump a special jump with its own timing, effective strength/lift, and glide. Still not remotely useful for nearly anything but it would have made it feel better to use. But why be mad at DE when all that was requested was a "triple jump", nothing more nothing less.

Let me tell you a story you might have already heard if you're on the Design Council: back in early November, DE asked the Design Council to come up with a new passive for Chroma. Like you said, quite a few people (but not most, as the majority were suggesting elemental effects) suggested something to do with wings and airborne mobility (I certainly did)... and none of those suggestions got taken. What players were proposing involved cool effects like flight in regular missions or lots of cool effects while airborne, and I thought my suggestion was one of the more boring ones when I mentioned making Chroma immune to damage and status from attacks directly underneath him. None mentioned anything as boring as "Chroma gets an extra jump", yet that's what we got. Thus, in reality, nobody really asked for Chroma's passive, because even those who wanted airborne mobility out of him wanted something a lot more substantial. This is not the first time DE has come to the DC to ask for suggestions, listen to exactly none of them, and then basically pin the blame on the players when the thing they actually implemented doesn't turn out popular.

3 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

It would've been a game changer had it not been for the simple fact that of his whole kit, his most prized ability is NON-ELEMENTAL! Vex doesn't take into any consideration of what elemental he was from the beginning (and all to get about the same performance as a Rhino who doesn't need to do the stack work). Couple that with how poor Spectral and Effigy performs (even with the most recent changes on functionality) and that Ward, which isn't the most terrible but... is overshadowed by Wisp's Reservoir. I would swap out her ability with Ward in a heartbeat if I could. A Hasten effect to movement and attacks, shock effects with stuns and decent range, large increase to Health AND a regen effect all at once with super duration that is easy to share and refresh!? God, Chroma got crapped on from on high. His elemental nature is just lackluster so improvement to access to his the elements by itself doesn't mean anything. And do not get me started on Lavos!

But the main problem with the swap is that everything has to be recast to change the element. Which has its trade offs though only in regard to Ward. It would help Spectral and Effigy function better as status generators (which seems to be the design they want) if they just swap as you do. The only effect of having the recast makes it clunky to take advantage of if there isn't a reason/payoff to have multiple effects at the same time (ie: spectral a different element than effigy). Again do not get me started on Lavos!

I wholeheartedly agree to making Chroma's damage boost elemental in nature, and that I agree is a tremendous missed opportunity. A common suggestion from the DC in that thread I mentioned was allowing Chroma to give himself and nearby allies an elemental damage boost to weapons, which I think would make sense given that Chroma has an elemental utility aura and is known for being a weapon damage buffer (for his own weapons, anyway). I also feel that if Chroma is to have both an elemental swap and any persistent effect on an ability, then that ability should dynamically swap when swapping elements, without needing to recast. It's silly for Equinox to have to recast her abilities every time she switches forms, and I don't think Chroma should have to do that either, especially since his current abilities are expensive enough to cast already.

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  • 2 months later...

If we're talking about frames with the elemental theme then on the flip side we have Lavos who makes Chroma look even worse.

Lavos has a passive that's actually useful and unique with the element mixing and the 10 second status immunity on orb pickups.

His 1, while somewhat clunky, is useful for survivability.

His 2 is really fun to use and great at dealing with large groups of mobs (element mixing really shines here).

His 3 reduces CD and also turns ammo into universal ammo which is great if you're running a weapon that has ammo problems.

His 4 essentially has a built-in CO where it doubles the damage the more elements that are effecting an enemy so it has synergy with his other abilities.

He has synergy with his Cedo shotgun that is awesome on it's own but even better with him.

He's also super tanky and the CD system and aforementioned element mixing makes him really versatile and arguably the most unique frame in the game.

He's also really tanky.

Chroma basically consists of pressing 2 and 3 and just using melee until it runs out and you press them again. If you're credit farming then you press 4 and leave it there. Utterly boring. Both him and Inaros are among the most boring frames and really need a rework. Newer frames have really exposed them for their bland playstyles and kits. 

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On 2021-02-28 at 2:41 PM, Teridax68 said:

His useless, half-hearted new passive

I'm apparently the only one who finds having an extra jump to be useful. It's just one of those "didn't know I needed it until I got it" sort of things. It doesn't assist in combat, but I find that Chroma doesn't really need help in combat, so having something small to make traversing the map easier feels really good to use. It's really the only thing that I thought was good about the Chroma "rework". 

I'd be all for giving Chroma a passive that ties in with his kit to assist in battle, but DE first has to make Aerial Ace a Warframe mod instead of a rifle mod. Having that extra mobility just feels too good to give up.

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