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I'm getting really tired of hearing this catchphrase so if you think it's so easy here are some quick steps for you to follow:

1.  Sell off your Warframes / weapons that have forma in them and replace them with zero forma builds.

Still to easy?

2. Take off all your mods.

Lets face it, no one complains that acquiring Grendal is 'to easy' do they.

Besides, if you think killing enemies needs to be the hard part, you're probably not playing Warframe, you're just spending Plat. The actual hard part as you progress through the game is getting anything of actual value to drop. For example:

After grinding out 67 Axi A11 Relics, 6700 void traces (averaging 10 per mission) to make them all Radiant, grinding them all open to finally get 1 neuroptics BP!?!?!

Yeah, tell me again how 'easy kills' is the problem.

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13 hours ago, (PSN)thorfinn01 said:

I'm getting really tired of hearing this catchphrase so if you think it's so easy here are some quick steps for you to follow:

1.  Sell off your Warframes / weapons that have forma in them and replace them with zero forma builds.

Still to easy?

2. Take off all your mods.

Lets face it, no one complains that acquiring Grendal is 'to easy' do they.

Besides, if you think killing enemies needs to be the hard part, you're probably not playing Warframe, you're just spending Plat. The actual hard part as you progress through the game is getting anything of actual value to drop. For example:

After grinding out 67 Axi A11 Relics, 6700 void traces (averaging 10 per mission) to make them all Radiant, grinding them all open to finally get 1 neuroptics BP!?!?!

Yeah, tell me again how 'easy kills' is the problem.

The solution you gave at the beginning  although sarcastic is counter Intuitive . You’re ignoring the whole idea of progression in a game itself . Why should I purposely remove all the things I’ve grind hard for to make the games content challenging. 
 

The grind isn’t even fun because what’s the point of grinding for a new gear if my current ones will murder entire groups with no effort . 

Edited by (PSN)ggh667124
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So you're saying RNG is the difficulty of warframe, right ? I mean people don't understand what we mean we when we ask for difficulty, there is a big difference between killing enemies fast bcs you have a Godlike riven, and killing enemies fast bcs you are skilled, the game is easy in my opinion only bcs it doesn't require skills, most of the time you're just spamming one button casting your nuke frame 4th ability, apart from Eidolon hunt, The game is nothing hard in my opinion, even Getting grendel missions can be cheesed if you have enough knowledge of the game, so yeah, When people ask for difficult content, its not always a call for Nerfs, maybe DE should start considering some hard bosses, that actually don't get oneshotted no matter what button you smash!

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Atlas Prime Neuroptics is only 25p right now. Maybe consider checking warframe.market next time and beat RNG by selling items off so you can go for a more practical route and just buy what you need with platinum.

I believe in grinding, but losing your sanity over it does nothing for me.

P.S. I just noticed you're on console. Still I imagine trading for it instead will give you less headaches

Edited by Alpha_Tango
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1 minute ago, Alpha_Tango said:

Atlas Prime Neuroptics is only 25p right now. Maybe consider checking warframe.market next time and beat RNG by selling items off so you can go for a more practical route and just buy what you need with platinum.

Exactly, lets say a 60k player is in game, rare parts will always be in the market bcs Maths, I always use the market and trade for parts I don't have, Idk... some people like to punish themselves for no reason

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38 minutes ago, (PSN)thorfinn01 said:

1.  Sell off your Warframes / weapons that have forma in them and replace them with zero forma builds.

 

38 minutes ago, (PSN)thorfinn01 said:

2. Take off all your mods.

Great great great. Now tell me how to make the game harder... Without hindering or restricting myself in any way.

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It's a pretty interesting loop, of a system eternally doomed to fail because it aims to please two opposing parties.

  1. Game is challenging, people want it easier (power fantasy) and more grind efficiency;
  2. Game becomes too easy and another group demands challenge - DE attempts challenge without straight up nerfing the players, which means harder content;
  3. The first group once again claims moh powah, moh efficiency - DE lightens the load of the previously challenging content once again - less rng, less grindiness, etc.
  4. Round n' round we go, now asking for harder content because the game has become too stale.
  5. Rinse and repeat both sides until nowadays, when we can already reach 9000+ levels with all the gear we possess. 

We've been dancing to this tune for years, and the most surprising thing is that we never learn and keep diving ever deeper into the loop. Always while avoiding the whole "nerf the player" subject like it's an unholy plague.

I'm on the side of power fantasy, for that matter. I like the big bang boom - everything dead - feel. 

Edited by (PSN)Hikuro-93
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So yes, I have builds that I can button mash / 4th nuke my way through missions. Yes, those kills are easy. Then you have Phase 4 of the Profit-Taker on Orb Vallis. This is arguably one of the harder bosses in the game. It's at least the one requiring the most planing and tactics. I can beat her too, but I don't unless it's for nightwave.

There's an entire map where all the enemies are +100 lvl etc and after unlocking it once I don't go back for my own purposes because I can get through the grind easier on origin. Hell, I got bronze vitality mods on steel path Sedna!

As for harder bosses, sure. Throw them in, just like phase 4 though If the reward isn't there, I'll do it once to clear the node then never go back because I'll still be off grinding things I actually need for the game.

The market and plat has sved me much heartache - that said, the only way I can afford plat is grinding out things to sell so it's kindof a catch 22 there :P

 

Edited by (PSN)thorfinn01
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19 minutes ago, (PSN)Hikuro-93 said:

It's a pretty interesting loop, of a system eternally doomed to fail because it aims to please two opposing parties.

  1. Game is challenging, people want it easier (power fantasy) and more grind efficiency;
  2. Game becomes too easy and another group demands challenge - DE attempts challenge without straight up nerfing the players, which means harder content;
  3. The first group once again claims moh powah, moh efficiency - DE lightens the load of the previously challenging content once again - less rng, less grindiness, etc.
  4. Round n' round we go, now asking for harder content because the game has become too stale.
  5. Rinse and repeat both sides until nowadays, when we can already reach 9000+ levels with all the gear we possess. 

We've been dancing to this tune for years, and the most surprising thing is that we never learn and keep diving ever deeper into the loop. Always while avoiding the whole "nerf the player" subject like it's an unholy plague.

I'm on the side of power fantasy, for that matter. I like the big bang boom - everything dead - feel. 

based on that a thought occurs... if they make the game harder, but increase rewards to match the new difficulty... wouldn't that solve the efficiency problem? its just as efficient as before because it rewards more.

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1 hour ago, Joezone619 said:

 

Great great great. Now tell me how to make the game harder... Without hindering or restricting myself in any way.

Thats the point of something hard my dude, when something is hard you are hindered or restricted..  Its like life itself, being a professional sportsman is hard, requires a ton of effort, restricting your diet, hindering your party temptations and going through it with a determination to finish.. You cant make something harder without restricting something in a way, if you could just say "i want to be a professional sportsman" and it happened instantly, it would be easy.. its not.. The game is the same and taking off some mods is a good way to make it harder... You still have your abilities, you still have all your functionality, you dont have the bonuses... Think of it this way "mods make the game easier", instead of "no mods make the game harder"

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I'm more of the opinion "it's too cheesy" 

And it doesn't help that certain content is balanced around having to either use cheese or fail. Example: lifted status on warframes that removes entire control except operator (literal cheese), with no way of countering it. 

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4 hours ago, (PSN)thorfinn01 said:

After grinding out 67 Axi A11 Relics, 6700 void traces (averaging 10 per mission) to make them all Radiant, grinding them all open to finally get 1 neuroptics BP!?!?!

Let me guess, you didn't do radshares.

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Gear is supposed to be a tool to help you attain your goal.

Want to climb Everest? Train yourself and take the right gear.

Want to reach the South/North Pole? Train yourself and take the right gear.

But in Warframe you train yourself and take the right gear... so you can train yourself and get more gear to take... so you can train yourself and get more gear to take... For... What?

Killing enemies is not supposed to be difficult. What's supposed to be difficult is the scaled up content of the game that we get all that good gear for.

If the difficulty of the content doesn't change at all (apart from how long it takes to kill an enemy) from level 1 to level 150+... then what are we using gear for?

OP, you're not wrong. If the game isn't difficult, we're supposed to take off our strong gear, and that's because the content we have our gear for is...?

Too. Easy.

You don't gear up for Everest and climb Ben Nevis.

You don't gear up for the South Pole and walk to the shops in the snow.

Because those things don't need that level of gear. They need a certain level of competence at the activity, but they don't need the gear.

But why have the gear if there's nothing to do with it?

What people are complaining about when they say it's 'Too Easy' is that there's no reason to have the gear, no push to actually play the game, if there's no difficulty that warrants the good gear.

Eh... we'll see what happens when all the Melee Attack Speed no longer exists. See how many people cry.

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mad max thats GIF

 

So let me get this straight...

I ground through all the rare mods

 over 150k endo

2 umbral formas

~15 regular formas (for an entire loadout)

50 mil focus 

42 arcanes

and when I've finally completeded my 1337_360nOsCoPe_420_P***y-killer_69xXx build your solution is: "Don't use it"?

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The game isn't difficult because people scream whenever DE ever introduces anything that nullifies a part of their fire-and-forget room-wide-nuke kit.  The game is won in the arsenal, not on the battlefield, and DE knows better than to balance the game around people that will give up playing their favorite frames and weapons to beat something with as little effort as possible. 

It makes more sense to look at the difficulty curve as being lenient enough that people don't have to min-max, and they can afford to do stupid $#!% like modding their plinx to feel like a Lato Extreme, sans status chance and reload, or their Astilla to feel like a common assault rifle cannon with increased magazine size and fire rate.  The modding system exists to allow more creativity than slapping on another multi-shot, crit, or elemental damage mods in the correct order.

Yes, if people want challenge, they're going to have to stop min-maxing.  As long as the game is about "slamming math into math," there will be no challenging the 1% without ostracizing the other 99%.  DE is not going to introduce content that only the most geared out players can accomplish - they'll just trivialize that too with some broken build that abuses ability spam, near invulnerability, and/or a very big gun that isn't very fun to use for I'm betting the majority of players.  Lord knows I won't.  I play Atlas Prime and use the Kuva Quartakk because I like his abilities and the dakka.  If my gun is rendered a BB gun or if I have to shut down the entire tileset's AI or otherwise render them a non-threat with some infinite scaling ability to win, I'm not interested in playing anymore.

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Warframe is easy, and nothing wrong with acknowledging it. Not all games need to be difficult... and either way, for anyone that's played a variety of games, eventually all games without the use of artificial limitations that guarantee a loss would be easy to complete. It's possible to have some level of challenge without actually being difficult, but that requires DE being able to properly design enemies and attacks that can actually be seen. The closest to that would be the reworked Jackal with the attack patterns, but even then, you are still just walking around only, rather than trying to deal damage while avoiding attacks.

People also do complain about RNG in all aspects. Rivens get regular complaints, DE's reliance on low drop rates get complaints, etc. However, nothing is ever going to be done about it unless a large majority of people have a problem with it, or if a specific minority complain about it. DE makes money from RNG, so there's really no incentive for them not to make it as annoying as possible. How many people do you think legitimately crafted Equinox for example? Anyone who doesn't care for MR would by now not even bother and just skip to the prime variant.

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Summary:

Part of the community that likes a challenge: Our gear has been powercreeped by some mods so much that the game can quite simply be played by spamming one button. something needs to be done.

OP: oh yeah? dont use any gear at all then , problem solved. Completely unrelated , I also equate RNG based time sinks as difficult.

 

I hope everyone understands the issue with the above approach.

Edited by 0_The_F00l
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At this point Warframe has gimped itself. [DE] has failed to continue to establish what should be difficult content and what shouldn't and nerfing and buffing in accordance. Early game the game seems to have a clear gear progression through the use of Endo and and the acquisition of both damaged and intact mods to slowly but surely raise your strength while acquiring new Warframes to fit a particular role to prepare yourself the for the next planet. But there's nothing much else to core Warframe gameplay.

You don't really need improve your aim since the game has plethora of AOE weapons which lets be honest doesn't have much drawbacks and we have Warframes with seemingly endless Energy reserves capable of nuking whole rooms with a couple button presses which lets be honest is by no means difficult. To be fair you may have felt like you've earnt that wave clear through farming for Mods and Endo and you have. But you also must understand something so strong is a detriment to gameplay if waves of enemies on what should be difficult content is killed within seconds with minimal effort from the player and this is especially if you're playing with others. 

CC, is strong. TOO STRONG! Many Warframes has the ability to completely lock down enemies for an seemingly endless amount of time and at the moment we have the means to kill them quickly and efficiently too. What is [DE] supposed to do besides to balance this? Besides drastically nerfing Warframe CC potential globally (like they have done with special Units) which would only be met with an outrage from the community since they'll be 'Taking Power away from the player'. Balancing CC requires a very delicate balance between skill and power, which Warframe seems to lack which renders Warframe 'too easy'.

Warframe has a fun movement system but Warframe gameplay doesn't really make use of it. DE's trying to improve their tilesets by adding more uses for the Parkour system but I don't think is enough to raise the skill level of the game. Currently 'dodging in combat' mostly consists of flailing around like a mad man trying to break line of sight to be sure that they are out of harms way since most attacks in the game are too fast for the player to react and trace the player a bit too thoroughly which leads to players trying to find a safe location and spamming their wave clears. Perhaps projectile paths were clearer like one of those plains Tusk Snipers (If they actually worked and could hit anything) players wouldn't feel so constricted and forced into that particular playstyle, promoting a more active playstyle. A more extreme example of this would be something like Nier Automata's projectile system where they are clear and concise.

(Anyway in a rush and gotta go, no time to proof read or make a more targeted... argument?) 

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