DE: Stop tweaking stuff based on gimmicks or things that no one actually does.

[Loza03]

17 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Melee mods are far stronger than gun mods, you will deal more damage more often faster

Technically speaking, aside from the Scalers this isn't true for Status mods. Instead, Melee gets to have copious amounts of status that doesn't rely on status chance at all!

 

Which is arguably worse!

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

After the stream, it's been interesting seeing how many people here on the forums are in denial about just how bad the melee situation in this game actually is

OP claims "nobody plays this game mashing E", willfully ignorant of the fact that's what everyone does. This isn't a Steel Path thing, this is at every level of gameplay.

Running the tutorial? Ranged weapons need multiple headshots to kill, but (as of melee 3.0) all starter melee weapons are coded to kill every enemy (except Vor) in one hit without mods. Going through the Starchart? You will max out Pressure Point long before Serration. Endgame player doing Arbitration and Steel Path? Melee mods are far stronger than gun mods, you will deal more damage more often faster

 

Go ahead and walk into a gaggle of infested enemies to melee an arbitration drone after some amount of time like an hour or 2.

Guns are actually a great tactic for arbitrations. 

It just requires actually admitting that guns are useful instead of being biased against melee.

[KittySkin]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Go ahead and walk into a gaggle of infested enemies to melee an arbitration drone after some amount of time like an hour or 2.

Guns are actually a great tactic for arbitrations. 

It just requires actually admitting that guns are useful instead of being biased against melee.

First, you can go in and melee the drone. Slam attack destroy the drone in a single hit and the AOE knockdown prevents you from even being hit.

That aside, the fact that a primary WEAPON its relegated as a tactical gadget its enough to see how bad they are atm. Its the same that saying "damage its to high? The use your melee to block damage while you shot enemies to kill them" implying that said melee lack damage to do the killing task.

If I have to swap to primary/secondary just to prime an enemy for CO or destroy a specific flying thing, I might as well just take a redeemer prime and do the same, with less swaps, higher damage, infinite punch through and AOE damage, all of this without aiming and weapon swaping.

Melees are way overtuned and single target primaries and secondaries are way undertuned, and thats not a damage issue, but also a game design issue. AOE damage vs LOS directional damage on a horde game where enemies comes at you from all directions.

Its easy to see why explosive weapons and melees are the most used weapons and why kuva nukor its also the most used secondary.

[Dunkelheit]

This thread shows just how clueless many players really are. The real problem DE has is: How do I balance the game with all the different levels of game knowledge floating around and make everyone feel good about themselves at the same time?

[GEN-Son_17]

I guess op doesn't understand that DE relies a LOT less on youtubers than posters do. Their last decision to listen to youtubers and whiners was after the "content drought" narrative was started by Life of Rio and it was suggested that DE should release content faster, and fix the major bugs after release. Railjack was that buggy release and EVERYONE who promoted that strategy ripped DE for it. Lesson learned.

Now, that aside, that entire devstream was on point. More engaging gunplay without heavily hitting melee is a fantastic move! Guns don't use weeping wounds, condition overload and blood rush, don't benefit from never having to reload, don't have a universal combo system to benefit from, don't have a universal ultra powerful move when that combo gauge is full, DEFINITELY don't have a healing mod that is attached to said insanely powerful move, don't have guaranteed staggers, don't have healing mods outside of an arcane, can't equip a special mod that gives it more capacity AND an entirely different play-style and, if that isn't enough of a difference, guns can't AUTOMATICALLY stop all damage facing it's owner. So, yes, guns can use a bit of a raise and melee can lose a bit of attack speed wealth and still keep it's mansions, Ferrari's and yachts. 

[TARINunit9]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Go ahead and walk into a gaggle of infested enemies to melee an arbitration drone after some amount of time like an hour or 2.

Guns are actually a great tactic for arbitrations. 

It just requires actually admitting that guns are useful instead of being biased against melee.

After the buffs to melee blocking angle (you can block attacks in the middle of a melee combo) and the high melee attack speed you can get with Berserker, it's equally easy to kill the drones with melee and ranged

Oh and by the way, how would I figure this out? By actually using both melee and guns. No need to put words I never said in my mouth. Biased against melee? The only thing I've ever been biased against is bad design. 

[vegetosayajin]

melee didn't and doesn't need a nerf, guns needed a buff/change from a long long...long time
but of course only buffing is not enough to produce rage comments/videos XD

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 hours ago, KittySkin said:

First, you can go in and melee the drone. Slam attack destroy the drone in a single hit and the AOE knockdown prevents you from even being hit.

That aside, the fact that a primary WEAPON its relegated as a tactical gadget its enough to see how bad they are atm. Its the same that saying "damage its to high? The use your melee to block damage while you shot enemies to kill them" implying that said melee lack damage to do the killing task.

If I have to swap to primary/secondary just to prime an enemy for CO or destroy a specific flying thing, I might as well just take a redeemer prime and do the same, with less swaps, higher damage, infinite punch through and AOE damage, all of this without aiming and weapon swaping.

Melees are way overtuned and single target primaries and secondaries are way undertuned, and thats not a damage issue, but also a game design issue. AOE damage vs LOS directional damage on a horde game where enemies comes at you from all directions.

Its easy to see why explosive weapons and melees are the most used weapons and why kuva nukor its also the most used secondary.

Using a tactic is the whole point of the arbitration drone. Why else would they disable our abilities against them and whatever they're touching? Why aren't people outraged about that? 

Multiple people have already also pointed out that in every game explosive weapons are just sometimes better than single target weapons. It's a basic common sense mechanic. 

Single target weapons will get a buff, and that's great....but if someone literally can't aim directly at an arbitration drone, then it doesn't matter how strong it is. 

The ability to aim is a player issue, as some people can aim better than others....the game can't make a human aim better.

[KittySkin]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Using a tactic is the whole point of the arbitration drone. Why else would they disable our abilities against them and whatever they're touching? Why aren't people outraged about that? 

Multiple people have already also pointed out that in every game explosive weapons are just sometimes better than single target weapons. It's a basic common sense mechanic. 

Single target weapons will get a buff, and that's great....but if someone literally can't aim directly at an arbitration drone, then it doesn't matter how strong it is. 

The ability to aim is a player issue, as some people can aim better than others....the game can't make a human aim better.

What im saying is that effort/reward ratio its way better on everything but single target weapons. Im up for them being buffed, but even if a tenora could on shot every single enemy in the game, it would still perform worst that kuva bramma on 90% of game content. Damage wont fix the issue. The issue can only be fixed by mechanical changes to the game. Giving heavy units innate waframe ability/AOE resistance its enough to put all kind of primary and secondary weapons that lack AOE damage into a relevant place again. Same can be applied to melee, just removing CC from them and making enemies hit A LOT harder the closer you are is actually way better at balancing melee weapons that pure damage nerfs or increasing primary damage.

The main issue with warframe its not the stats itself, but the absolute lack of any kind of meaninguf mechanic on enemies that makes stuff outside of the fastest room cleaner useless, and that cant be fixed by stacking extra damage, if that worked, we wouldnt be here again, after seven years of consecutive buffs to weapons and nerfs to enemies ending always on the same situation, again, and again

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

20 minutes ago, KittySkin said:

What im saying is that effort/reward ratio its way better on everything but single target weapons. Im up for them being buffed, but even if a tenora could on shot every single enemy in the game, it would still perform worst that kuva bramma on 90% of game content. Damage wont fix the issue. The issue can only be fixed by mechanical changes to the game. Giving heavy units innate waframe ability/AOE resistance its enough to put all kind of primary and secondary weapons that lack AOE damage into a relevant place again. Same can be applied to melee, just removing CC from them and making enemies hit A LOT harder the closer you are is actually way better at balancing melee weapons that pure damage nerfs or increasing primary damage.

The main issue with warframe its not the stats itself, but the absolute lack of any kind of meaninguf mechanic on enemies that makes stuff outside of the fastest room cleaner useless, and that cant be fixed by stacking extra damage, if that worked, we wouldnt be here again, after seven years of consecutive buffs to weapons and nerfs to enemies ending always on the same situation, again, and again

 

So forcing everyone to use a single target is a better option? I don't agree, sorry. If someone wants to use an explosive primary and secondary they should have the freedom to do that. Or we'll just bombard said enemy with explosives until it dies, since we can buff our weapons and debuff enemies no problem. I'll just throw nezhas chakram at it and keep blasting.

I have an Akvasto prime with a CD MS riven that does just fine in most content. The reward effort ratio is great for me because I utilize ways to increase it's reload speed so I can just rapid fire everywhere. 

 

[KittySkin]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

 

So forcing everyone to use a single target is a better option? I don't agree, sorry. If someone wants to use an explosive primary and secondary they should have the freedom to do that. Or we'll just bombard said enemy with explosives until it dies, since we can buff our weapons and debuff enemies no problem. I'll just throw nezhas chakram at it and keep blasting.

I have an Akvasto prime with a CD MS riven that does just fine in most content. The reward effort ratio is great for me because I utilize ways to increase it's reload speed so I can just rapid fire everywhere. 

 

Its actually what happens now. Everyone its forced to either use AOE sourced or be the useless team member that only serves as a spawn multiplier.

With my proposed change at least the guy with the daikyiu wont feel like the impaired tenno, since every single time a heavy unit shows its his/her time to shine.

And as you said, you will be able to still stack lots of damage multipliers to bypass that by brute force, so its not even an issue, otherwise parvos carriers on steel path would be impossible to kill with the 90% damage reduction status imune shield they have.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

15 minutes ago, KittySkin said:

Its actually what happens now. Everyone its forced to either use AOE sourced or be the useless team member that only serves as a spawn multiplier.

With my proposed change at least the guy with the daikyiu wont feel like the impaired tenno, since every single time a heavy unit shows its his/her time to shine.

And as you said, you will be able to still stack lots of damage multipliers to bypass that by brute force, so its not even an issue, otherwise parvos carriers on steel path would be impossible to kill with the 90% damage reduction status imune shield they have.

Hello tenno, I hope you're having a wonderful day. A Saryn with a bow or assault rifle isn't very useless, wouldn't you say? Heh heh. Either way I don't think it's a bad idea at all, except for solo players, because we exist, remember teehee. Keep in mind due to warframes already lacking spawns and enemy density, 4 players already trivialize the game regardless of their weapons.

Have a great day tenno!

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

So I guess the new thing kids do these day is YELL IN ALL caps AT RANDOM BECAUSE that won't GET ANNOYING fast? (But what truly is ICING ON THE CAKE ARE THESE overly long brackets RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SENTENCE early on)

 

 

But seriously, calm the hell down. The game isn't fun if there isn't a semblance of balance. There is no feckin power fantasy when the enemy can not pose a threat to begin with. You want this game to be EZ-mode? Fine, Earth, Venus, and Mercury. Go stay there and play your EZ-mode.

[SenorClipClop]

On 2021-02-28 at 4:07 PM, wolfsilver00 said:

you make a compelling game by.. well.. giving the player better options than to mash e and, we have those. Thats why no one just goes around just mashing e. Is it possible? Yeah it is, but no one does it

Lots of people go around just mashing e.

[Zimzala]

36 minutes ago, (PSN)GingyGreen said:

But seriously, calm the hell down. The game isn't fun if there isn't a semblance of balance. There is no feckin power fantasy when the enemy can not pose a threat to begin with. You want this game to be EZ-mode? Fine, Earth, Venus, and Mercury. Go stay there and play your EZ-mode.

So not a kid here, not yelling in caps.

Completely calm, enjoying my morning coffee.

The game has a semblance of balance, it just has outliers, like most any GaaS game after many years of additions.

It might not be balanced the way you prefer, that does not mean there is no semblance of balance, only that, perhaps, you cannot see it.

I can reply in the same tone as well..."If you want more challenge, go play a different game"..."If you want more challenge, take some Personal Responsibility and change your loadout"..."If you cannot find the entertainment you seek here, then look elsewhere".

Just because the current level of power balance in this power fantasy is not to your liking, does make it wrong, and if you don't like the game, no one forces you to pay if you feel like it's not entertaining you any longer, because of a lack of 'challenge'.

Is that calm and rational enough for you?

[Hokibukisa]

Reverting to Inaros Path in 3.. 2.. 1..

[KittySkin]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Hello tenno, I hope you're having a wonderful day. A Saryn with a bow or assault rifle isn't very useless, wouldn't you say? Heh heh. Either way I don't think it's a bad idea at all, except for solo players, because we exist, remember teehee. Keep in mind due to warframes already lacking spawns and enemy density, 4 players already trivialize the game regardless of their weapons.

Have a great day tenno!

Nice day for you too! Im also a solo player (I cant get away from the pause option haha) and while its indeed an issue for solo players, we are not the majority of the player base, thats for sure.

Also, as we agreed, it can be brutforced and you can always keep killing trash enemies and let the accumulated damage from multiple AOEs end up killing the heavy unit anyways, like when the nox dies from saryn's spores, even when it have its glass thingy and spores also deals body damage to him haha

Also, yeah, 4 players trivialize spawns mainly when at least 1 of those player have some kind of AOE sources, go for a 1h mot using only a tiberon prime on burst mode and see how you end up being cornered.

The man issue is that AOE sources have all the benefits of single target focused sources without any drawback, and its SUPER obvious in low level content, where an equinox dont even need to release ult damage to kill stuff with her divine presence haha

Usually most games have some kind of enemies where you need a specific tactic to kill it, be it hitting a weak spot (like nox) or using enviromental damage, etc.

While enviromental damage its ofc out of question here, at least the nox aproach can work to make presicion feel less useless when you can just bring a big bum bum thing haha

Have a wonderful day too tenno!

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2021-02-28 at 3:07 AM, wolfsilver00 said:

giving the player better options than to mash e and, we have those

You cant possibly understand how powerful melee weapons can be if you truely think there are better options

What are you using? The skana? Are you still only using pressure point and fury as your best mod choices? 

Dps from melee can out damage and keep you safe far better than other weapon options, and its not really debatable. Idk if theres something wrong with your builds or what but seriously, melee is unquestionably king

 

The reason not everyone uses it is for style (playstyle) and not having the right build to use it, it has close to nothing to do with power potential of melee weapons

[wolfsilver00]

On 2021-02-28 at 7:23 PM, TheGuyver said:

Is this going to another one of those hot topic feedback threads that belong in GD where the op doesn't ever post in the thread again?

I keep getting people saying "No one goes around just pressing e", so yeah, I'm not answering because half the people have said the same S#&$ I did, and I'm not into circle jerking, the other half of the people either havent seen the strem or just dont care to read enough to understand what I mean with mashing e, even tho another commenter posted the damn video the devs referred to, in which the player ONLY PRESSES E, which is my point. Seriously, who would complain about mashing a button which is the designated button for every melee attacK? You dont need more than a couple seconds of thinking to realize that I'm not complaining about that, yet there is people who forgot that.

Then, on that half you have the others who are still discussing that melee is better, which in my post I already said it is and use it as an argument to the rest of my point, which is not.

Then you have others who talk about how the devs said they would nerf 10% and buff 90% guns.. I LMFA in that part of the stream, why? Because they have almost never been subtle with nerfs, they have always used a sledgehammer to nerf things so I dont believe a single word that came out of their mouth.. And still, my point is melee should not be nerfed at all.

 

So yeah, thats why I dont answer, because I had to make some edits to the post to see if people could read, they couldnt.. People are calling me ignorant about the E thing without even understanding the point, which is so obvious (again, for reasons like: IT IS THE BUTTON WE USE TO HIT STUFF IN THE FACE) that I cant care about their opinion and they are not bringing any info to the discussion, just pointing at a misconception they had and saying "This is all about the post, OP ignorant and wrong"

 

I have no reason to answer my man, if I see a compelling argument I will, but I wont go into circlejerking or repeating myself a thousand times to people who cant be arsed to read

[wolfsilver00]

On 2021-03-01 at 12:52 PM, (PSN)GingyGreen said:

So I guess the new thing kids do these day is YELL IN ALL caps AT RANDOM BECAUSE that won't GET ANNOYING fast? (But what truly is ICING ON THE CAKE ARE THESE overly long brackets RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SENTENCE early on)

 

 

But seriously, calm the hell down. The game isn't fun if there isn't a semblance of balance. There is no feckin power fantasy when the enemy can not pose a threat to begin with. You want this game to be EZ-mode? Fine, Earth, Venus, and Mercury. Go stay there and play your EZ-mode.

The fact that you think caps are used for yelling does not mean anything to me, I use them to put attention to particular points because I wont go and stylize a forum post, dont have that kind of time in my hands. I also dont see any rules concerning using caps and, psychology itself has proved that people pay more attention to those, case in point, you went out of your way to talk about that instead of talking about the post and its content, a cookie for you my man.

 

The fact that your first insult is "kid" shows me that you are one (Or think like one), if you were old enough you wouldnt take that as an insult. Age is not an insult, there have been kids far more intelligent than you and I and there will always be, I'm a 27 year old man and I have had my ass handed to me in plenty of games by 15 years old, who knew the game better than me and presented sound arguments, as kids can be stupid, so can adults, then again, a cookie for you.

 

Long brackets... Yeah, when I write my mind goes places and I have to put them in the middle of it, if you dont have the brain power to deal with 5 seconds of reading in between other reading, not my problem and you should see a professional because no matter the age, that shows a lack of ability to retain information (im serious about this now, I'm a medical student so, even tho it looks like i'm messing with you, which I undoubtedly am, this is serious man)

 

 

Now to the answer to the rest; 

Fun is subjective, cant believe I have to say that but.. It is! In case you havent realized, people have fun in different ways, some like using guns, others melee (In particular, ive been using melee since I started the game, thats what I enjoy, for point and click I have old time adventures) so, for the game to be fun, it has to be balanced as you say, but how do you balance a power fantasy? By nerfing something? Nah, you buff everything to the same level... 

Now, you may say that that's easy mode, which at a point I agree, but not everyone in the game is a minmaxer, not everyone will have primed mods, not everyone can be arsed to use kuva nukor to proc status + radio for a CO combo on melee... But isnt the game already easy mode after all? Let me preface this by saying that Inaros has the playrate it has because, well, known reasons. Is anyone talking about nerfing inaros 10% and buffing the other frames 90%? Nope, they are not.

And there is a reason for that, mainly that frames are diverse and fun if used properly (Even Mag) so its not a matter of having something that makes the game easy-mode, but a matter of everything being on the same level.

Enemies have never been a threat to us in this game, the difficulty comes from the grind, I have never had any trouble, even with suboptimal builds, defeating this game. The real "threat" in this game is time, the real difficulty of this game is efficiency and how much of it can you have and come up with. This game has always been about the creativity of making a good build that you enjoy or making an amazing build that you probably wont enjoy but will get you through stuff quick. 

 

Let me give you 2 examples to illustrate:

1) Mirage with explosive legerdemain, its literally pressing 2 to win. Its even worse than the video called out by the devs because you dont even have to aim dude. Yet I do have one built and I use it to rank up the weapons I dont enjoy using (mainly automatics). Has anyone talked about nerfing them? Nope, they have not, because its an efficient way to reach our goal, them shinies at the end of the mission. (And yes, I know you have to prime that ability by killing some stuff first, who cares)

 

2) You can complete any mission in the game with any weapon, without mods. Will it take a long time? Yeah it will. But if you know how to move, how to save yourself and have enough ammo pads (Or just a weapon like bubonico) you can do it.. Is it difficult? Not really, so even in the worst of the situations, with an unmodded weapon, unmodded frame (maybe some Hp to not have to be so precise with movement) you can still do it, giving weight to my point that difficulty here is efficiency, not the enemy.

 

The AI of this game is lackluster at most times, enemies will be manipulated by players to do whatever they want so its not like they are difficult enemies to begin with, the only difficulty about them is that, from time to time, they will hit u with something hard that can OHK you, or maybe a toxin proc.. OH I TREMBLE OF FEAR 

 

Get off your high horse with your difficulty BS man, and stop telling people to go to earth, I'm not here telling you to drop all your mods and play like that if you want a difficult challenge (Although that is an enjoyable way to play the game, I have had a lot of fun running grandel farms) so dont go imposing your own sense of difficulty on others, when you yourself dont seem to realize what the difficulty of this game really is.

Besides that, your argument is that melee weapons are too easy right? Then, dont use them! I can use your same argument and instead of sending you to earth for easy mode, i can tell you to go SP infested with a single shot high damage primary. See? Its bullS#&$ if I say that, and so it is if you say that. There is a whole lot of weapons in the game and I've tested almost all of them (only around 100 to go) and I can say, without a shred of a doubt, that even some resulted boring to me (and again, I dont particularly like automatic weapons) most of them are viable in any mission, any mode, with the proper tactics and with the proper mods and also usable in any mission, any mode, with the proper tactics and no mods. So I dont see any reason to nerf melee when its in a good state (I dont go for minmaxing builds, I have tried them, they bore me, although I do enjoy throwing explosive glaives to enemies) and can be used to do fun builds and to do minmaxing builds, there is a cake for anyone there. But primaries are on the low burned, can be fun? Yeah, I"m one of those who runs the "get bigger body parts" mod just for the heck of it, but I also run a bubonico when I just want to see the world burn. Can be minmaxed? Yeah, but not at the same level than melee, so bring that up and you have both player bases happy, the ones who want to minmax and those who dont. 

You make the game as hard as you want with your choices, dont force others your choices while taking possibilities from them, it should be celebrated when a game has a gameplay for everyone, instead of complaining its too easy... If you dont have enough willpower to resist your urges to put the BiS for every weapon, then you have no right to complain the game its too easy, even less in this case that the difficulty comes from fkn rng man.

 

EDIT: Btw, has this been calm and rational enough for you? I tried not to use caps as to not startle you or many words inside brackets, so you dont get confused, also, go check a doctor, seriously... I just rechecked and as far as I can see, if you have trouble with those "long" brackets you may seriously have some trouble dude, i'm not fkn joking right now.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

1 hour ago, wolfsilver00 said:

I'm not here telling you to drop all your mods and play like that

1 hour ago, wolfsilver00 said:

Besides that, your argument is that melee weapons are too easy right? Then, dont use them!

 

oh the irony

[wolfsilver00]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)ShonFr0st said:

 

oh the irony

I will take the time to answer only because you are one of the worst kind of people in the internet, taking stuff out of context and quoting a single line, without the line following it clearly stating that what I said was bullcrap and just an example on what not to do :) You can go hide in the corner again my amigo

"Besides that, your argument is that melee weapons are too easy right? Then, dont use them! I can use your same argument and instead of sending you to earth for easy mode, i can tell you to go SP infested with a single shot high damage primary. See? Its bullcrap if I say that, and so it is if you say that. "

 

 

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

1 hour ago, wolfsilver00 said:

You make the game as hard as you want with your choices, dont force others your choices while taking possibilities from them

What is this, if not the "too easy? don't use it" mentality? Your dissonance is quite baffling. On top of the hyperbolic thinking that balancing something equals rendering it useless. "Buffing everything" makes everything too easy, so the enemies are buffed because people complain, so the end result is that the relative power of that outlier has come down. Congratulations, you have wasted two extra steps to do something that could have been achieved by simply nerfing the outlier.

[wolfsilver00]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)ShonFr0st said:

What is this, if not the "too easy? don't use it" mentality? Your dissonance is quite baffling. On top of the hyperbolic thinking that balancing something equals rendering it useless. "Buffing everything" makes everything too easy, so the enemies are buffed because people complain, so the end result is that the relative power of that outlier has come down. Congratulations, you have wasted two extra steps to do something that could have been achieved by simply nerfing the outlier.

Now THAT is an argument.. But you did misunderstand me, I'm not saying that you should choose not to use something, I'm saying that every player makes choices that make the game harder or "easier" in their own way.. I made the choice a long time ago to be a solo player, that made the game "harder" in the way that hard works in this game, as in "longer" because, be real here, dying in this game is not easy or common... Have you EVER lost a match? Not a bugged one, not a spy one when someone else messed up in that sortie.. I mean one of the common run missions ,have you ever lost?  I dont remember ever losing one except the times I was just messing around trying builds..  But THAT is my choice. 
I dont mean the choice of "hey, lets not use this so its harder". I mean the choices we all make to run stuff we like. For him, it seems his chooses to run the most minmaxed stuff, and then complains the game is too easy.. HE CHOSE to go for the most powerful route and make the game easier for himself, after all, thats the point of progress isnt it? If its always the same stuff, if no matter how far you get, you still are the same old useless tenno, then... whats your progress? having a ton of weapons? Every single game in the market has a point in which "hey, it got easier because I got better/my arsenal got better" and, at a point, thats a personal choice, there are those who choose to be minmaxers and those who dont. 

I'm not telling him to choose not to use a weapon, i'm telling him that his choices made the game easier for him, and that is a natural fkn progression in a game and can't see anything bad about it. 

 

"On top of the hyperbolic thinking that balancing something equals rendering it useless"

 

You havent been around this game for long have you? DE does not hold the record of nerfing stuff without making it useless. Besides that, power creep is and has always been a thing. You want real balance in the game? You have to start over with every single weapon and rebalance everything.. But then you have a problem, everyone will cry that its too hard.. I dont understand why people keep crying "ITS TOO HARD" just to months later "ITS TOO EASY"... What the hell do people want? Easier or harder? I dont get how no one is sasying crap about engaging, which is my point. The current melee system is engaging, its not just aim and click, you have your combos, you have your switches for CO, you have your crit if you want it.. You have all the choices to make so that the game is fun for you, but you dont get to go and make a choice and then complain about the result. If you choose to make the game easier for you, and the game gets easier for you, go and have a party because you succeeded instead of going into forums complaining that what you tried, actually worked.. What the hell is that mind stance? Its nonsensical to the point of lunacy.

 

Besides, you say that we have an outlier.. And I say this again: YOU CHOSE TO HAVE AN OUTLIER. You choose what mods you use, you choose to make the game easier, and then complain when it works, its ridiculous! The truth of the matter is that people who like guns and see them performing badly compared to melee want their weapons to be better, which obviously I understand and think is right, but why the hell does it have to be through the route of nerfing melee too? Hell, you can run SP higher nodes with whatever u want, even a fkn MK-1 weapon will get you through an extermination with enough time.. And what about frame abilities? All of those juicy abilities that trivialize the game? No one says anything about it because the community is not divided on 2 sides like primaries and melees.. Yet you have one dude, running a steel path mission, an exterminate, just pressing E and DE goes nuts thinking the game is broken.. IT's NOT. I want to see the same dude run a rescue mission pressing only e, a defense, not on earth but on void, run a spy for all I care.. My point is that they are taking an example of something extreme and taking it as if it was normal gameplay which is not. 

 

And you too say that "buffing everything makes everything too easy" but does it? I dont think so, I think it makes it faster.. Whats the difference if you kill that one dude in a third of a second instead of in 1 if you are running an unkillable inaros? TIME. THe game is already easy, stop saying otherwise, it has ALWAYS been easy and the combat has never been of any difficulty at all, not normal enemies, not bosses, not anything in this game is able to kill us if we use more than 2 keys, so where is your difficulty? GOd damn it, even the grendel farm is easy, and we do that with no mods at all, we just have to use more than one thing to make it happen, we have to think instead of blindly pushing 2 or 3 buttons.. So dont come here telling me buffing everything makes it easier because it doesnt, it makes it faster and, yeah, makes the grind easier but not by any margin that would really matter, after all you still have to be 5 minutes in almost every mission as they are timelocked. 

We all made choices when playing this game, choices that made the game easier for some, "harder" for others.. DE should not balance around player choices, DE should focus in giving us the blank canvas to put our creativity in and do whatever the hell we want, either that or remake the whole game so that it actually has any difficulty to it, in which case they better lay off the grind, which they wont because its what brings them money.

 

Thats why, in my line I said dont force your choices on others. If you choose to be a minmaxer, dont ruin the game for others because you crave a risk that was never there in the first place

[------Solo------]

20 minutes ago, wolfsilver00 said:

And what about frame abilities? All of those juicy abilities that trivialize the game?

Not to mention quite a variety of mods that renders any frame invincible in a way. 

21 minutes ago, wolfsilver00 said:

even the grendel farm is easy, and we do that with no mods at all, we just have to use more than one thing to make it happen, we have to think instead of blindly pushing 2 or 3 buttons.

Ehm.. Actually there is a way to 1 button all the grendel farm missions if you want it. (Cheese mechanic is still there even without mods).